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Post by mzee on Feb 7, 2012 20:05:10 GMT 3
Mwalimu, You have refused to let me know your party of choice. I'm waiting
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Post by Mobimba on Feb 7, 2012 20:18:31 GMT 3
One should never predict anything political with certainty. That said, Mudavadi in the Uhuruto camp, as Mwalimumkuu gleefully awaits, would be quite interesting. In the end, we must agree that like Uhuru, Ruto, Kalonzo and Jirongo, Mudavadi is a Moi orphan. Birds of a feather. ODM must treat this matter with great caution. Issuing threats and publicly reprimanding Mudavadi is unfortunate. There's a lot of value (for ODM) in letting Mudavadi freely traverse the country popularizing his candidature esp. in anti-Raila zones. Only the idiots like Ntimama don’t see.
Mzee, Asking anyone in Jukwaa to publicly declare membership to either PNU, G7, URP, KKK, WIPER is quite unfair and can cause intense fear and sickness. It's like asking a goat to choose a slaughterhouse.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 20:28:15 GMT 3
Mzee,
Parties in Kenya mean nothing really. Our politics revolve around personalities (euphemism for tribes if you like).
If Raila walked out of ODM today and ran as an independent, you will simply forget about ODM and vote for him wherever he is. If Uhuru ran on whichever party, central will follow him there. Look at UDM, it was a household name in RV just the other day, where is it today? Dead, buried and forgotten.
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Post by phil on Feb 7, 2012 23:18:30 GMT 3
One should never predict anything political with certainty. That said, Mudavadi in the Uhuruto camp, as Mwalimumkuu gleefully awaits, would be quite interesting. In the end, we must agree that like Uhuru, Ruto, Kalonzo and Jirongo, Mudavadi is a Moi orphan. Birds of a feather. Whatever it is Mwalimu is smoking, I hope he has not invited you or a puff. To Mwalimu's amazement, Mudavadi is actually freely campaigning to unseat Raila and the world has not ended. Welcome to the world of democracy and freedom. Mudavadi has swiftly been turned to everyone else's manifesto. That some go as far as declaring that they will not run for presidency if Mudavadi is running, while others proclaim Luhya unity only if Mudavadi is ODM presidential candidate! Only mwalimumkuu can get excited by such shenanigans. And talking of Moi orphans, even Kibaki is one. Being a Moi orphan is not a death sentence on its own. What a load of crap! So now Midiwo = ODM and ODM = Midiwo? Midiwo opinion is just an opinion and not a party position. Mama Ida's opinion is just that, an opinion. ODM as a party is known to run its affairs in accordance with its constitution. So far the constitution does not allow county primaries and if Mudavadi can consolidate support for a constitutional amendment supported by majority of members, fair enough, then country primaries it will be. But the party will not allow itself to be controlled via remote by outside forces. That will not happen. And exactly what happened to freedom of speech that everyone else seems to enjoy except perhaps ODM MPs? While it is OK for Khalwale, Sonko, Waititu and Ruto to run their mouths issue all manner of threats, it is very wrong for an ODM MP to speak publicly about the way he feels his party ought to conduct itself. Hypocrisy of the highest order. Is anyone holding a gun on Mudavadi's head and telling him what not to do? You can see these shameless impunist in their true colours trashing the fact that political parties are now a critical subject of our new constitutionality and that the parties are the very root of our politics. Not surprising the same characters show scant respect to the political parties act that they passed in parliament. One wonders then why Ruto and his surrogates were ready to commit murder just because they were told UDM has its laws that bound all members. They chose the easier way out and bolted after purchasing the URP. God forbid that we should have a President William Ruto or President Cyrus Jirongo. And Mwalimumkuu, hold your horses. ODM will come out of these campaigns stronger. My own personal view is that even if Ruto were to come back to ODM and they combine forces with Mudavadi, they still would not master enough numbers to defeat Raila at the ODM national ballots. Some of these things are easier doctored by Mutahi Ngunyi on KTN Leo my friend. But that is for another day.
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Post by amunra on Feb 8, 2012 0:57:32 GMT 3
Other parties in kenya need to follow suit asap. Whatever is happening to odm is healthy. And am actually suprised that MM is sounding presidential in the interview either the journalist was a poor interviewer or mudavadi responded well to the questions.
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2012 7:43:43 GMT 3
And talking of Moi orphans, even Kibaki is one. Being a Moi orphan is not a death sentence on its own. Indeed it isn't. Naturally the orphan tag would also apply to Raila who was a grubby street urchin adopted into the house of KANU by a lengthy process that started with cooperation & ended with merger . Moi fed him on a healthy molasses diet to make him the man he is today. I saw Mudavadi on both KTN & Citizen. This fellow makes the perfect compromise candidate. Let the ODMers decide
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Post by jules on Feb 8, 2012 11:41:30 GMT 3
And talking of Moi orphans, even Kibaki is one. Being a Moi orphan is not a death sentence on its own. Indeed it isn't. Naturally the orphan tag would also apply to Raila who was a grubby street urchin adopted into the house of KANU by a lengthy process that started with cooperation & ended with merger . Moi fed him on a healthy molasses diet to make him the man he is today. I saw Mudavadi on both KTN & Citizen. This fellow makes the perfect compromise candidate. Let the ODMers decide I didn't know that he is the proposed compromise candidate.Then why waste time with ODM nomination.Wouldn't it be better for him to join G7 for the direct ticket.
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Post by nok on Feb 8, 2012 14:06:38 GMT 3
Will ODM ,
Will Raila's Handlers,
Will Raila's Kitchen cabinet,
Will Raila's attack dogs,
Give Mr. Mudavadi a fair playing field and a fair playing
chance for a fair challenge within ODM ?
Midiwo ,Ntimama et al; are you with me ?
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2012 15:29:34 GMT 3
Will ODM , Will Raila's Handlers, Will Raila's Kitchen cabinet, Will Raila's attack dogs, Give Mr. Mudavadi a fair playing field and a fair playing
chance for a fair challenge within ODM ? Midiwo ,Ntimama et al; are you with me ? nok,I think Mudavadi already has a fair chance. He is campaigning. He is meeting delegates across the country and we have seen no problems. The Jakoyo Midiwos and Ole Ntimamas will always make noise on the sidelines. They are irrelevant to the direction of the party. I don't know anybody who pays attention to what Jakoyo Midiwo says other than the charlatans of the other parties. Every party has baffoons like that. Mudavadi is playing fair and straight and the format ODM has taken makes a lot of sense since it is the delegates (already elected) who will vote for the candidate as per the ODM constitution. This is very different from the antics of kina Kalonzo in 2007 when ODM was using mass rallies for party and individual campaigns where kina Klonozo were crying about being booed. The format ODM has chosen is very unique in Kenyan politics and it took many by surprise. Kenyans are used to mass rallies where leaders pretend to hag each other during the day while stabbing each other at night. It doesn't work very well for party elections and it is a good thing ODM learnt from their past mistakes and have taken a different route. To his credit Mudavadi has made it clear he does not need anybody to babysit him. He is his own man he said. The fact that ODM's rivals are glued to ODM presidential campaign when they do not even have an idea who their own candidates will be tells you ODM is on the right path. The Gang of 7 who have no clue even how they would choose a candidate are all salivating hoping Mudavadi can be pulled from ODM. That has been a fantasy of anti ODM elements for more than five years. Those are the people who talked about ODM (KPU). These are backward tribalists whose understanding of politics is limited to tribes and tribal math. How do we get the Mudavadi and hence the Luhyas out of ODM, that is their narrow thinking. Never mind that ODM has a following in Rift Valley, in Nairobi, in Coast, in NE and just a cross the country. Those tribalists are not capable of changing in the next 100 years. They are very far behind the citizens of the republic. If you remember the same characters, even here in Jukwaa, boldly predicted in the 2005 referendum that Kibaki will impose his katiba and win the referendum because in their suffocated thinking it would only be the Luos who will oppose the constitution because Raila will order them to do so. They were miserably wrong then. They are wrong now. We know them and they know themselves. If ODM can go through the "primary" race and emerge stronger they would have established the standards upon which others will be judged and Kenyans will watch as the Gang of 7 fall to pieces as they ran back to their brief case parties. They can salivate now for Mudavadi but the next round is theirs and they have no idea what to do. Who would have thought that the Mudavadi, much ridiculed by other parties as the weakest link in ODM would draw so much national attention. That tells you how strong ODM is. They have to keep it that way. Here are some ODM legislators talking a lot of sense. That is what we want to hear. Here we go: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/ODM+legislators+downplay+Raila++Musalia+rivalry/-/1064/1322602/-/item/0/-/ghwivyz/-/index.html
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2012 15:36:21 GMT 3
Indeed it isn't. Naturally the orphan tag would also apply to Raila who was a grubby street urchin adopted into the house of KANU by a lengthy process that started with cooperation & ended with merger . Moi fed him on a healthy molasses diet to make him the man he is today. I saw Mudavadi on both KTN & Citizen. This fellow makes the perfect compromise candidate. Let the ODMers decide I didn't know that he is the proposed compromise candidate.Then why waste time with ODM nomination.Wouldn't it be better for him to join G7 for the direct ticket. It depends on what you mean by compromise. My take from what you say is Mudavadi is compromised by the G7, an allegation he denies. I view him as a compromise candidate that ODM can put out there who will not be as abrasive & polarizing as the current favourite is. So y'all do your duty & support whomever in your internal primaries & we will do ours & support or oppose whomever come the general elections. Simple really.
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2012 15:49:29 GMT 3
Absolutely right Adongo. I think Mudavadi's proposal of taking the voting out to the delegates in each county is the future. Hope it pans out.
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2012 15:49:53 GMT 3
*
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Post by kamalet on Feb 8, 2012 15:52:17 GMT 3
There are those that see a third hand in the competition in ODM. What is a FACT is that there are those rubbing their hands in glee waiting for the implosion of ODM, there are also those that hope it will actually happen - so let them be. A weak ODM is what its opponents want.
But nothing can take away the fact that Mudavadi introduced a ripple that was unexpected within the top echelons of ODM. The main issue is how ODM deals with this matter without allowing anything to break up the party!
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 8, 2012 16:33:50 GMT 3
Will ODM , Will Raila's Handlers, Will Raila's Kitchen cabinet, Will Raila's attack dogs, Give Mr. Mudavadi a fair playing field and a fair playing
chance for a fair challenge within ODM ? Midiwo ,Ntimama et al; are you with me ? No chance, here or in heaven my friend. Give Mudavadi another week of serious campaigns that seem to threaten the position of the anointed one like what he has been doing and you will see the epithets that will start flying his way starting right here on Jukwaa. If you think I am lying stop by Miguna's house and find out from him. If you miss him, talk to Ruto and Kalonzo, if not, Orengo and Nyog'o and finally Wamalwa. I mean we are talking about a long standing history here, let them not lie to you that it only started with the Midiwos. One can only wish Muda well, my only fear is, he has never demonstrated that he has a spine to fight such vicious wars. That is why everyone is surprised by his latest moves.
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Post by nok on Feb 8, 2012 17:13:08 GMT 3
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2012 17:27:37 GMT 3
Will ODM , Will Raila's Handlers, Will Raila's Kitchen cabinet, Will Raila's attack dogs, Give Mr. Mudavadi a fair playing field and a fair playing
chance for a fair challenge within ODM ? Midiwo ,Ntimama et al; are you with me ? No chance, here or in heaven my friend. Give Mudavadi another week of serious campaigns that seem to threaten the position of the anointed one like what he has been doing and you will see the epithets that will start flying his way starting right here on Jukwaa. If you think I am lying stop by Miguna's house and find out from him. If you miss him, talk to Ruto and Kalonzo, if not, Orengo and Nyog'o and finally Wamalwa. I mean we are talking about a long standing history here, let them not lie to you that it only started with the Midiwos. One can only wish Muda well, my only fear is, he has never demonstrated that he has a spine to fight such vicious wars. That is why everyone is surprised by his latest moves. hehehehehehehe. The sheer desperation. Is nothing else happening for the vultures of PNU/KKK/G7/URP/WDP/KANU what else? to chew on. Porojo time is up. ODM is destined to present its candidate to the nation after its own primaries are complete. That will be done before the vultures decide to tear each other up for food. Take a seat boys. You need the lessons. Whether you will learn is another matter altogether.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 8, 2012 17:28:36 GMT 3
Kenyans for the first time are learning what democracy is all about, what parties must go through to pick the strongest candidates - way to go ODM! Those salivating at the prospect of the party breaking up are best advised to focus on the problems in their own parties. mwalimumkuu and b6k are you with me ?
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Post by kamalet on Feb 8, 2012 18:05:39 GMT 3
Kenyans for the first time are learning what democracy is all about, what parties must go through to pick the strongest candidates - way to go ODM! Those salivating at the prospect of the party breaking up are best advised to focus on the problems in their own parties. mwalimumkuu and b6k are you with me ? Akinyi Why would you want to stop people from wishing? If it turns out okay, their wishes come true...but it need not get there so that is why ODM must work to ensure that MM does not split the party. When they wish for a broken up ODM, they are actually looking out for their party!
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2012 19:13:34 GMT 3
Kenyans for the first time are learning what democracy is all about, what parties must go through to pick the strongest candidates - way to go ODM! Those salivating at the prospect of the party breaking up are best advised to focus on the problems in their own parties. mwalimumkuu and b6k are you with me ? Akinyi, what a load of codswallop. If anything, the fears of ODM being torn apart always emanate from within ODM itself. Have a look at ODM fears voiced in '07 just prior to the NDC vote: "Sources said five presidential candidates agreed after a series of meetings that delegates vote for a team to retain the unity of the party rather than individuals, to minimise a fallout after the exercise. Another source argued that if the delegates were to vote for an individual, it could leave the party divided as supporters of some of the candidates could walk out." Indeed ODM was busy divvying up seats in a most unconstitutional manner that somehow snuck it's way into NARA. The Deputy PM positions (& PM for that matter) were not part of the KE constitution of the day. What Kenyans learned then was how to force opposition party structures onto a shellshocked head of state's government. Read the full article here: africanpress.me/2007/09/01/the-other-odm-splinter-group-of-raila-odinga-to-choose-their-flag-bearer/ Fast-forward to 2012 & it's the same thing playing out again. When Adongo says Mudavadi shouldn't make too many waves lest he split the party that's just fine & dandy. When I say it's good to see Mudavadi claiming a stake for himself at the helm, I'm salivating at the prospect of an ODM split? Yet Adongo & I are equally self-declared non-ODMers! Gimme a break! Truth be told I am hoping Mudavadi sticks to his guns & takes the fight to Raila. If he can clinch it at the primaries he actually stands a better chance at being elected in those zones that now cover their noses when ODM is mentioned. In short, Mudavadi actually could make the party stronger now that the other former ODM bloodletting brothers (Uhuru & Ruto) are long gone. They just have one more blood brother left to relegate from the premier division to the second division in order to fully clean house.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2012 19:23:41 GMT 3
6bk,
My friend, where exactly did adongo say what you quote him as saying? I would like to know if there are other people cloning the adongo "brand" because there is a fee for that. But not once have I even bothered with the myth about Mudavadi "splitting the party" or "making too many waves". I fully support Mudavadi's right to vie for ODM ticket and said in so many words that it is good for ODM.
I do not mind the vultures hovering around ODM. That is in their nature. They do not know any better. They are creatures that wait for dead stuff to live. Many say they are wasting their time hovering over ODM but that is their problem.
Here is what you said and I am quoting you directly:
"Fast-forward to 2012 & it's the same thing playing out again. When Adongo says Mudavadi shouldn't make too many waves lest he split the party that's just fine & dandy. When I say it's good to see Mudavadi claiming a stake for himself at the helm, I'm salivating at the prospect of an ODM split? Yet Adongo & I are equally self-declared non-ODMers! Gimme a break"
Could you please clarify which adongo you are talking about. You are entiltled to your own wishful thinking about ODM or PNU or even the Gang. But you cannot invent your own stories to back yourself up. I hope that is not asking for too much from you.
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emali
Full Member
Posts: 219
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Post by emali on Feb 8, 2012 19:59:14 GMT 3
Good for Mudavadi...finally showing some nuts,I don't believe it will amount to much but at least he is making an effort to look like he has ambitions something I didn't think he had in him & I think most share my sentiments (look at Gado's cartoon today)...
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 8, 2012 21:19:20 GMT 3
Kenyans for the first time are learning what democracy is all about, what parties must go through to pick the strongest candidates - way to go ODM! Those salivating at the prospect of the party breaking up are best advised to focus on the problems in their own parties. mwalimumkuu and b6k are you with me ? Akinyi Why would you want to stop people from wishing? If it turns out okay, their wishes come true...but it need not get there so that is why ODM must work to ensure that MM does not split the party. When they wish for a broken up ODM, they are actually looking out for their party! Kamale, ODM does not need to 'work to forestall an imaginary split.' It never happened in 2007 and with the troublemakers having checked out, i doubt it will happen this time. Although we haven't yet matured enough for the kind of presidential nominations similar to what we see in developed democracies like the US, i still like what am seeing. Let the chips fall where they may - am sure ODMers will support whoever wins in a free and fair contest. b6k, No need to get all worked up. IMO those interested in this topic fall into three categories: - those who support ODM and FULLY welcome Mudavadi's move - it isn't a big deal, the delegates will make their choicelike they did in 2007. - those who support ODM but would rather Raila got the nomination without a rigorous nomination process - some in this group would fall in the first category, if not for the fear of a possible 'infiltration of the party by outside forces.' -tose who care less about the party and would support anything or anybody who who takes the fight to the doorstep of the "polarizing, abrasive, grubby street urchin overfed on mollases" (your words, not mine). where do you fall and what is your motivation?
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Post by b6k on Feb 9, 2012 9:30:07 GMT 3
6bk,My friend, where exactly did adongo say what you quote him as saying? I would like to know if there are other people cloning the adongo "brand" because there is a fee for that. But not once have I even bothered with the myth about Mudavadi "splitting the party" or "making too many waves". I fully support Mudavadi's right to vie for ODM ticket and said in so many words that it is good for ODM. I do not mind the vultures hovering around ODM. That is in their nature. They do not know any better. They are creatures that wait for dead stuff to live. Many say they are wasting their time hovering over ODM but that is their problem. Here is what you said and I am quoting you directly: "Fast-forward to 2012 & it's the same thing playing out again. When Adongo says Mudavadi shouldn't make too many waves lest he split the party that's just fine & dandy. When I say it's good to see Mudavadi claiming a stake for himself at the helm, I'm salivating at the prospect of an ODM split? Yet Adongo & I are equally self-declared non-ODMers! Gimme a break"Could you please clarify which adongo you are talking about. You are entiltled to your own wishful thinking about ODM or PNU or even the Gang. But you cannot invent your own stories to back yourself up. I hope that is not asking for too much from you. Adongo, it's not too much at all. I could've sworn I saw something to that effect. If I am wrong then apologies to you. A shortsighted vulture cannot hunt for long. So let me "rudisha mkono" to you in peace, ndugu.
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Post by b6k on Feb 9, 2012 10:21:58 GMT 3
b6k, No need to get all worked up. IMO those interested in this topic fall into three categories: - those who support ODM and FULLY welcome Mudavadi's move - it isn't a big deal, the delegates will make their choicelike they did in 2007. - those who support ODM but would rather Raila got the nomination without a rigorous nomination process - some in this group would fall in the first category, if not for the fear of a possible 'infiltration of the party by outside forces.' -tose who care less about the party and would support anything or anybody who who takes the fight to the doorstep of the "polarizing, abrasive, grubby street urchin overfed on mollases" (your words, not mine). where do you fall and what is your motivation? Akinyi, I can't believe I missed this gem above. I'm sure there are a lot more cleavages than the 3 you present above but let me try to work within your parameters. My motivation is for all to push for a better Kenya. I am not convinced Raila is the answer unlike most on Jukwaa. Your paraphrase of what I said earlier RE: Raila should be an indicator of that. Indeed my approval of Mudavadi over Raila is simply based upon the premise that Mudavadi would be the lesser of 2 evils fronted by ODM, not that he is any better (Goldenberg, cemetery scandal). More on that later. As to why I doubt Raila is the best choice for the 4th president of the republic, let me count the ways. (1) His self admitted role in the '82 coup in the "Enigma" book after the statute of limitations had passed. This was KE's first major bloodletting brought about by politics. (2) His self enriching scheme via the molasses plant that led to a taste for "eating": Triton & the maize scandal were just upping the ante for his newly acquired skills as a wheeler-dealer. (3) His role in polarizing the nation in '07 (41 vs. 1) leading to PEV, making him a repeat offender as far as mass bloodletting goes. Third time may lead to an all out conflagration. (4) The old man is unwell & has had brain surgery. You can hear its effects in his mumbled speech, you can see it in his teary eyes. Are we ready to have a PORK who can end up in ICU whilst in office so his cronies like the buffoon, Midiwo, can run the country in his absence? I think our experience with Kibaki's illness in early '03 that allowed his kitchen cabinet to run the show should make us weary of electing a semi-infirm individual into the highest office in the land. You make a big fuss about ODM conducting primaries. I saw Ababu Namwamba say last night on the news ODM is the only party to have the "balls, guts, & spine" to conduct them. Truth be told, Safina is way ahead of them as they are culling members with questionable integrity (some have had the gall to take the party to court) in order to clean house & get tainted individuals out of the party. Can you picture ODM doing that to their questionable characters? Ole Ntimama, Henry Kosgey (chairman!), Otieno "bado mapambano" Kajwang come to mind as individuals who should've been sent to pasture eons ago. I could go on & on... Having watched the chairman of Safina, Mwalimu Mati, on Citizen's breakfast show today, I know there are other alternatives out there. It's just a pity Kenyans are so mesmerized with the 2 sides of the same rusty coin (Kenyatta-Odinga dynasties) we've had since independence, with each side claiming their side of the coin is shiny & clean, yet they're really equally base & corrupt. What's my motivation? My motivation is to breakout from that cycle of supporting one or the other when both have passed their use by date. Reboot the system!
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Post by nok on Feb 9, 2012 15:52:56 GMT 3
Is the Pm fueling discussions about the Dpm ?
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