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Post by b6k on Feb 19, 2012 18:01:41 GMT 3
Folks it looks like its tough days ahead for Raila as he fights for his political life in rough seas where smooth sailing is not guaranteed. Apart from advocating joint rallies for the orange duo, an MOU with Mudavadi for Raila to serve only for one term has been broached by Ole Ntimama! Meanwhile, Khalwale lists a litany of past betrayals by Raila to the late Kijana Wamalwa, Simeon Nyachae, & even Kalonzo Musyoka. When it comes to leadership, it seems Raila's motto is "no one but me". "Heritage Minister William ole Ntimama has allegedly proposed securing Mudavadi’s concession through an MoU that limits Raila to a one-term presidency after which he will back the Sabatia MP for the presidency in 2017. Raila’s critics say all this manouvering will end in tears for Mudavadi. They insist the PM’s past actions reveal he is a dishonest politician determined to "steamroll" anyone standing in his path to personal glory. Ikolomani MP Bonny Khalwale says the ‘Kibaki Tosha’ declaration Raila made in 2007 broke a pact he had struck days earlier with Ford People’s Simeon Nyachae. This, Khalwale says, is not Raila’s only betrayal. "Upon Jaramogi’s death in 1994, Raila attempted to wrestle the chairmanship of Ford Kenya from Kijana Wamalwa, who had stood by his father," Khalwale recalls. "He abandoned Wamalwa after a bitter fight." Raila then formed NDP, which entered into co-operation with Kanu, "a once cohesive party that he ripped apart after then President Moi sidelined him for Uhuru in 2002." Khalwale says Raila also used unorthodox means in 2007 to elbow out Kalonzo Musyoka, his main challenger for the ODM- Kenya presidential nomination ticket. His informal leadership grouping with those leaders he took with him, the ODM ‘Pentagon’, has since collapsed. Looking at the onslaught facing Raila, Khalwale says he is only receiving what he has dished out before. "He is being paid in the same coin," he says. "Raila only works for himself. It can’t be that he is more sinned against than sinning. He is very cunning and behaves like the proverbial hare."" www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000052416&cid=4¤tPage=3
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 19, 2012 18:21:08 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Feb 19, 2012 19:20:24 GMT 3
Hehehe, Adongo M7's visit was a state function: true or false? It had nothing to do with ODM "internal" delegates meetings like the one Mudavadi had just left in Kitui
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 19, 2012 20:11:43 GMT 3
Hehehe, Adongo M7's visit was a state function: true or false? It had nothing to do with ODM "internal" delegates meetings like the one Mudavadi had just left in Kitui State function or no state function (in Bondo), I thought Raila and Mudavadi are supposed to be strangling each other and getting ready to tear ODM apart according to some. I know the import of the wishful thinking. At least so far Raila has not ordered that Mudavadi be stripped naked and caned in public. He (mudavadi) is a lucky man. Imagine he was with the gang who wants Mutula Kilonzo's head delivered to them with raw blood or else........
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 19, 2012 21:10:10 GMT 3
statements such as: Mr Odinga and Mr Mudavadi held lengthy discussions on the ongoing developments on the political scene.....must have some people wring their hands in frustration. mmmh.
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Post by b6k on Feb 19, 2012 21:51:15 GMT 3
statements such as: Mr Odinga and Mr Mudavadi held lengthy discussions on the ongoing developments on the political scene.....must have some people wring their hands in frustration. mmmh. @ Akinyi, the section you boldfaced above looks like what I just saw quoted on Citizen as a statement from Dennis Onyango, the PM's PA. They went on to report a counter statement from Kibisu Kabatesi, the DPM's PA terming Onyango's statement as "spin" that erroneously implies there's a crisis & would've required a lipreader's talent as nobody was within earshot of the "extensive" talks to even know what the duo discussed. I'm sure more will come to light. In my view both ODM & G7 have their fair share of "internal" issues that need to be sorted out before the ballot. @ Adongo, isn't Bondo a part of KE where the PM can host a state function?
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 19, 2012 23:42:32 GMT 3
statements such as: Mr Odinga and Mr Mudavadi held lengthy discussions on the ongoing developments on the political scene.....must have some people wring their hands in frustration. mmmh. @ Akinyi, the section you boldfaced above looks like what I just saw quoted on Citizen as a statement from Dennis Onyango, the PM's PA. They went on to report a counter statement from Kibisu Kabatesi, the DPM's PA terming Onyango's statement as "spin" that erroneously implies there's a crisis & would've required a lipreader's talent as nobody was within earshot of the "extensive" talks to even know what the duo discussed. I'm sure more will come to light. In my view both ODM & G7 have their fair share of "internal" issues that need to be sorted out before the ballot. @ Adongo, isn't Bondo a part of KE where the PM can host a state function? 6bk,The ODM presidential candidate issue will be resolved by delegates who will choose the presidential candidate. Both contenders have agreed to the process. Nobody is going to storm out after the delegates make their choice. The problem for the gang is that they do not even have an a process yet as to how they will pick their candidate and the deputy. They are all too scared even to approach that subject. So far it is Ruto and Uhuru kicking Kalonzo up and down and it looks terrible for all of them. As to the ODM internal issues, I noticed the statements from "advisors" of the duo and it reminded me why I will never be a paid advisor to any politician. As an advisor you have to make your guy look bigger than real and you have to tell them what they want to hear not what they NEED to hear. There is a big difference. Sometimes the advisors are more gang-ho than those they advise. That it seems is part of the job hazard. Raila and Mudavadi will run ODM into the next General Elections. If they come through as smart, inclusive, democratic and visionary they will have a shot at the big ticket. If they screw up with petty nonsense they will lose. It is that simple. So far they are blessed with really screwed up political rivals in the name of G7. Those guys are lost but it does not mean somebody else can't show up. Anything is possible. That is why the 2012 GE will be very interesting.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 19, 2012 23:54:20 GMT 3
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Post by kasuku on Feb 20, 2012 0:13:49 GMT 3
I see a game played by Mudavadi to keep the western people on their toes behind him. It's a good strategy for ODM. I suspect Mudavadi will go along with the game till sometime later when ODM will chose its Candidate. Who knows, maybe Odinga thinks Mudavadi will make a beter president than him...But i see a strong trust between the two. As if its "we two against the rest".
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Post by mzee on Feb 20, 2012 0:15:28 GMT 3
@ Akinyi, the section you boldfaced above looks like what I just saw quoted on Citizen as a statement from Dennis Onyango, the PM's PA. They went on to report a counter statement from Kibisu Kabatesi, the DPM's PA terming Onyango's statement as "spin" that erroneously implies there's a crisis & would've required a lipreader's talent as nobody was within earshot of the "extensive" talks to even know what the duo discussed. I'm sure more will come to light. In my view both ODM & G7 have their fair share of "internal" issues that need to be sorted out before the ballot. @ Adongo, isn't Bondo a part of KE where the PM can host a state function? 6bk,The ODM presidential candidate issue will be resolved by delegates who will choose the presidential candidate. Both contenders have agreed to the process. Nobody is going to storm out after the delegates make their choice. The problem for the gang is that they do not even have an a process yet as to how they will pick their candidate and the deputy. They are all too scared even to approach that subject. So far it is Ruto and Uhuru kicking Kalonzo up and down and it looks terrible for all of them. As to the ODM internal issues, I noticed the statements from "advisors" of the duo and it reminded me why I will never be a paid advisor to any politician. As an advisor you have to make your guy look bigger than real and you have to tell them what they want to hear not what they NEED to hear. There is a big difference. Sometimes the advisors are more gang-ho than those they advise. That it seems is part of the job hazard. Raila and Mudavadi will run ODM into the next General Elections. If they come through as smart, inclusive, democratic and visionary they will have a shot at the big ticket. If they screw up with petty nonsense they will lose. It is that simple. So far they are blessed with really screwed up political rivals in the name of G7. Those guys are lost but it does not mean somebody else can't show up. Anything is possible. That is why the 2012 GE will be very interesting. Adongo, I sometimes wonder why people even bother to talk, especially if there is nothing to talk about. Mudavadis so called advisor is reacting as if what Dennis Onyango wrote would be hurtful to his boss. The truth is that sometimes people start believing lies. Perhaps the praises that Mudavadi has been getting is getting to his advisors head. As far as I know, Mudavadi is a calm guy but he has such an aggressive advisor who will surely spoil stuff for him. What happened to an advisor doing his thing in private? To unite the party (ODM) such advisors need advise, badly and asap.
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Post by mzee on Feb 20, 2012 0:18:22 GMT 3
I see a game played by Mudavadi to keep the western people on their toes behind him. It's a good strategy for ODM. I suspect Mudavadi will go along with the game till sometime later when ODM will chose its Candidate. Who knows, maybe Odinga thinks Mudavadi will make a beter president than him...But i see a strong trust between the two. As if its "we two against the rest". Kasuku, I think that the gentlemen should do their campaign in peace without the interference of advisors. Should Mudavadi beat RAO I will be there to vote for him. If RAO wins then I will be with him too. This I will do without the so called advisors input. I really dont need them
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 0:47:06 GMT 3
6bk,The ODM presidential candidate issue will be resolved by delegates who will choose the presidential candidate. Both contenders have agreed to the process. Nobody is going to storm out after the delegates make their choice. The problem for the gang is that they do not even have an a process yet as to how they will pick their candidate and the deputy. They are all too scared even to approach that subject. So far it is Ruto and Uhuru kicking Kalonzo up and down and it looks terrible for all of them. As to the ODM internal issues, I noticed the statements from "advisors" of the duo and it reminded me why I will never be a paid advisor to any politician. As an advisor you have to make your guy look bigger than real and you have to tell them what they want to hear not what they NEED to hear. There is a big difference. Sometimes the advisors are more gang-ho than those they advise. That it seems is part of the job hazard. Raila and Mudavadi will run ODM into the next General Elections. If they come through as smart, inclusive, democratic and visionary they will have a shot at the big ticket. If they screw up with petty nonsense they will lose. It is that simple. So far they are blessed with really screwed up political rivals in the name of G7. Those guys are lost but it does not mean somebody else can't show up. Anything is possible. That is why the 2012 GE will be very interesting. Adongo, now you're talking. It's still early days to say whether nobody will storm out of ODM. A lot still rides on how the followers of either of the two will react when it dawns on them that it's their candidate who has to back down. It's a 50-50 thing. As for the G7 gang, to be honest the disarray does not surprise me. Keep in mind they form part of the PNU which has a lame duck president. Since Kibaki cannot vie for the presidency this time around, such haphazard jockeying for position is the norm around the globe. Think of the Republicans after Dubyah's second term. Total chaos. ODM, on the other hand, should be sitting as pretty as Obama is today: poised to take another stab at the top post without changing the flag-bearer, since their candidate won in '07 & currently holds a respectable post as PM. It should be a no brainer that Raila should run again. However, Mudavadi seems to be raining on someone's parade if single term MOU's are even remotely being considered by the top brass at Orange House. It reminds me of NARC & how Kibaki was to serve one term & move on. Ten years on, need I say more? I agree with you the "advisors" do more harm than good. But in KE it's the norm for them to sing what is expected of them. Should you advise what the leaders really NEED to hear you risk going the Muthama way, aka getting Miguna'd. There is a lot happening in the background on the PNU side that's not being discussed on Jukwaa. Mutava Musyimi throwing in his hat with the Democratic Party, Kibaki's original "vehicle". Jimnah Mbaru & "all" of Muranga County throwing in their lot with PNU Alliance. As the ICC process plays out things should start jelling for the other side. It will be an interesting 2012 for sure.
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 0:58:12 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, the inconvenient truth is that Mudavadi's new-found cojones are causing seismic waves within ODM. Don't expect them to admit that though. I like the way Kabatesi separated the Bondo state dinner from any other ongoing party functions
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 20, 2012 2:55:12 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, the inconvenient truth is that Mudavadi's new-found cojones are causing seismic waves within ODM. Don't expect them to admit that though. I like the way Kabatesi separated the Bondo state dinner from any other ongoing party functions B6K,I am totally with you here. It seems as though Raila had all along assumed that he is the one and only one who could run on ODM. Each passing day proves that Mudavadi's move got all his lieutenants and himself very flatfooted. They so far do not seem to have an answer to him, they are currently all over the place. They tried matusi and intimidation, it failed, Raila tried the much publicized county halls, nothing came out of them only Ole Ntimama's venom. They have tried propaganda including the latest fiasco with Museveni but it looks like nothing is cutting. The most interesting thing about the latest propaganda by Onyang'o is how Raila group has cheapened a visit by a sitting head of state from what we all knew it was, to a 'pimpish' implication that he was arbitrating the ODM wars. That is really an insult to president Museveni, and Kabatesi has not wasted time in reminding them that. Interestingly, Mudavadi himself is not talking much, he is just campaigning. I wonder why all this fear of a Mudavadi candidature within the ODM. Why would one at this time and age think about MUOs? Is it that desperate? Must this or that candidate be the president of Kenya? Are ODM supporters that miffed that a self-styled 'rapid response Nairobi Club' must meet under the cover of darkness to decide for them their candidate? Someone needs to wake these guys from slumber and tell them to smell the coffee. Someone needs to tell them that we just passed a new constitution that has given Kenyans a very big say in how they are governed and who will govern them. This is what Mudavadi is saying, let the people decide; mambo ya 'tosha' and 'katikati' died in '02 and was burried in '07..
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 20, 2012 3:03:25 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, the inconvenient truth is that Mudavadi's new-found cojones are causing seismic waves within ODM. Don't expect them to admit that though. I like the way Kabatesi separated the Bondo state dinner from any other ongoing party functions B6K,I am totally with you here. It seems as though Raila had all along assumed that he is the one and only one who could run on ODM. Each passing day proves that Mudavadi's move got all his lieutenants and himself very flatfooted. They so far do not seem to have an answer to him, they are currently all over the place. They tried matusi and intimidation, it failed, Raila tried the much publicized county halls, nothing came out of them only Ole Ntimama's venom. They have tried propaganda including the latest fiasco with Museveni but it looks like nothing is cutting. The most interesting thing about the latest propaganda by Onyang'o is how Raila group has cheapened a visit by a sitting head of state from what we all knew it was, to a 'pimpish' implication that he was arbitrating the ODM wars. That is really an insult to president Museveni, and Kabatesi has not wasted time in reminding them that. Interestingly, Mudavadi himself is not talking much, he is just campaigning. I wonder why all this fear of a Mudavadi candidature within the ODM. Why would one at this time and age think about MUOs? Is it that desperate? Must this or that candidate be the president of Kenya? Are ODM supporters that miffed that a self-styled 'rapid response Nairobi Club' must meet under the cover of darkness to decide for them their candidate? Someone needs to wake these guys from slumber and tell them to smell the coffee. Someone needs to tell them that we just passed a new constitution that has given Kenyans a very big say in how they are governed and who will govern them. This is what Mudavadi is saying, let the people decide; mambo ya 'tosha' and 'katikati' died in '02 and was burried in '07.. Mwalimumkuu,Whatever needed to be accomplished with this issue by all sides concerned internally has been accomplished and the proof shall be in the pudding.
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Post by job on Feb 20, 2012 3:56:42 GMT 3
I urge Musalia Mudavadi to run against Raila Odinga in the primary. To answer Charity Ngilu's question in facebook, I hereby urge her to also join that same contest in ODM (not Narc-K). I call upon all other ODM luminaries with presidential ambitions to also throw their hats in the ring to encourage internal party democracy. ODM should lead in this department, in this era of public funding of political parties.
I strongly urge the candidates to engage in a grassroots contest...at the County level. This is the only way the ultimate nominee will gauge their actual strengths and weaknesses. There is no better barometer for the general elections than such opportunity.
The biggest threat to such an exercise would be infiltration by State operatives (NSIS) and political rivals. These are the issues the ODM secretariat need to be discussing and even seeking external help doing. Many pro-democracy NGOs and bodies abroad can be willing to put donor funds in such projects - ensuring a clean and fair nomination.
Despite being expensive, the process where different luminaries from diverse regions compete for the ODM ticket, is likely to have an exponential effect on the party's growth and commited membership. These are the numbers that need to be boosted.
Focus shouldn't necessarily be on a single challenger for Raila. There needs to be more challengers besides Mudavadi. What is rather amusing is the sudden external interest by non-ODM members (including G-7 luminaries) in the matter of ODM internal elections. The same forces who used State machinery (aided by NSIS) to ratchet up a smear campaign against Musalia Mudavadi over the Cemetery scandal not too long ago, are now suddenly his biggest encouragers. You can always tell when being handed a poisoned chalice. Will ODM drink from the cup?
I'm not really for these top-heavy elections by delegates. ODM should hit the grassroots proper - for real grassroots elections. I can tell you, there are those who either underestimate or overestimate their grassroots strengths in corners such as Msambweni, Turkana, Moyale, Kilgoris, Kibwezi, Mbeere, Busia, Bungoma, Homabay, Nyamira, or Muranga. Let's remember it is not tribes going into the primary contest, it is individuals.
Then there's the little matter of hypocrisy from the PNU side. Whereas Saitoti and Mutula are literally being forced to sing the no-contest endorsement of Uhuru (Goldenberg files are being conveniently dusted from the DPP shelves; Mutula is being hounded out of the Justice Ministry as his wages are garnished for NSSF back-taxes ), ODM is being accused on stiffling internal democracy. Isn't this a pot calling kettle black.
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 7:55:35 GMT 3
B6K,I am totally with you here. It seems as though Raila had all along assumed that he is the one and only one who could run on ODM. Each passing day proves that Mudavadi's move got all his lieutenants and himself very flatfooted. They so far do not seem to have an answer to him, they are currently all over the place. They tried matusi and intimidation, it failed, Raila tried the much publicized county halls, nothing came out of them only Ole Ntimama's venom. They have tried propaganda including the latest fiasco with Museveni but it looks like nothing is cutting. The most interesting thing about the latest propaganda by Onyang'o is how Raila group has cheapened a visit by a sitting head of state from what we all knew it was, to a 'pimpish' implication that he was arbitrating the ODM wars. That is really an insult to president Museveni, and Kabatesi has not wasted time in reminding them that. Interestingly, Mudavadi himself is not talking much, he is just campaigning. I wonder why all this fear of a Mudavadi candidature within the ODM. Why would one at this time and age think about MUOs? Is it that desperate? Must this or that candidate be the president of Kenya? Are ODM supporters that miffed that a self-styled 'rapid response Nairobi Club' must meet under the cover of darkness to decide for them their candidate? Someone needs to wake these guys from slumber and tell them to smell the coffee. Someone needs to tell them that we just passed a new constitution that has given Kenyans a very big say in how they are governed and who will govern them. This is what Mudavadi is saying, let the people decide; mambo ya 'tosha' and 'katikati' died in '02 and was burried in '07.. Mwalimumkuu, the thing about ODMers is they either live in denial or they tend to follow the proverbial ostrich when things get thick. Omwenga acknowledged the problem & then quickly backtracked when the Sanhedrin in Jukwaa lashed out at him . Why form a Rapid Response Unit for internal admin work? Is it a war if anything threatens Raila's road to the top? The fact remains since PEV the ground has shifted in KE. Raila's "reformist" tag wears thin in a post PEV Kenya. Mudavadi doesn't feature in CIPEV & the like. His footprint when PEV was white hot in KE was negligible. If he can ruffle less feathers across the country it would be irresponsible for ODM not to give the guy a chance. Anyway, as if to prove all is NOT quiet on the western front, here's another take from The Star in yet another hard hitting article on the Raila-Mudavadi race. Makau Mutua refers to Raila as "the quintessential tribal baron"! www.the-star.co.ke/weekend/siasa/63130-odm-which-way-will-the-wind-blow
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 8:10:50 GMT 3
I urge Musalia Mudavadi to run against Raila Odinga in the primary. To answer Charity Ngilu's question in facebook, I hereby urge her to also join that same contest in ODM (not Narc-K). I call upon all other ODM luminaries with presidential ambitions to also throw their hats in the ring to encourage internal party democracy. ODM should lead in this department, in this era of public funding of political parties. I strongly urge the candidates to engage in a grassroots contest...at the County level. This is the only way the ultimate nominee will gauge their actual strengths and weaknesses. There is no better barometer for the general elections than such opportunity. The biggest threat to such an exercise would be infiltration by State operatives (NSIS) and political rivals. These are the issues the ODM secretariat need to be discussing and even seeking external help doing. Many pro-democracy NGOs and bodies abroad can be willing to put donor funds in such projects - ensuring a clean and fair nomination. Despite being expensive, the process where different luminaries from diverse regions compete for the ODM ticket, is likely to have an exponential effect on the party's growth and commited membership. These are the numbers that need to be boosted. Focus shouldn't necessarily be on a single challenger for Raila. There needs to be more challengers besides Mudavadi. What is rather amusing is the sudden external interest by non-ODM members (including G-7 luminaries) in the matter of ODM internal elections. The same forces who used State machinery (aided by NSIS) to ratchet up a smear campaign against Musalia Mudavadi over the Cemetery scandal not too long ago, are now suddenly his biggest encouragers. You can always tell when being handed a poisoned chalice. Will ODM drink from the cup? I'm not really for these top-heavy elections by delegates. ODM should hit the grassroots proper - for real grassroots elections. I can tell you, there are those who either underestimate or overestimate their grassroots strengths in corners such as Msambweni, Turkana, Moyale, Kilgoris, Kibwezi, Mbeere, Busia, Bungoma, Homabay, Nyamira, or Muranga. Let's remember it is not tribes going into the primary contest, it is individuals. Then there's the little matter of hypocrisy from the PNU side. Whereas Saitoti and Mutula are literally being forced to sing the no-contest endorsement of Uhuru (Goldenberg files are being conveniently dusted from the DPP shelves; Mutula is being hounded out of the Justice Ministry as his wages are garnished for NSSF back-taxes ), ODM is being accused on stiffling internal democracy. Isn't this a pot calling kettle black. Job most of what you say is kosher. I fail to see how NSIS can infiltrate the delegates when all these people should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters. As for outside interest on things ODM, just look at the Jukwaa interest in all things G7. All the threads give these guys more oxygen than they deserve.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 20, 2012 12:50:44 GMT 3
B6K,I am totally with you here. It seems as though Raila had all along assumed that he is the one and only one who could run on ODM. Each passing day proves that Mudavadi's move got all his lieutenants and himself very flatfooted. They so far do not seem to have an answer to him, they are currently all over the place. They tried matusi and intimidation, it failed, Raila tried the much publicized county halls, nothing came out of them only Ole Ntimama's venom. They have tried propaganda including the latest fiasco with Museveni but it looks like nothing is cutting. The most interesting thing about the latest propaganda by Onyang'o is how Raila group has cheapened a visit by a sitting head of state from what we all knew it was, to a 'pimpish' implication that he was arbitrating the ODM wars. That is really an insult to president Museveni, and Kabatesi has not wasted time in reminding them that. Interestingly, Mudavadi himself is not talking much, he is just campaigning. I wonder why all this fear of a Mudavadi candidature within the ODM. Why would one at this time and age think about MUOs? Is it that desperate? Must this or that candidate be the president of Kenya? Are ODM supporters that miffed that a self-styled 'rapid response Nairobi Club' must meet under the cover of darkness to decide for them their candidate? Someone needs to wake these guys from slumber and tell them to smell the coffee. Someone needs to tell them that we just passed a new constitution that has given Kenyans a very big say in how they are governed and who will govern them. This is what Mudavadi is saying, let the people decide; mambo ya 'tosha' and 'katikati' died in '02 and was burried in '07.. Mwalimumkuu, the thing about ODMers is they either live in denial or they tend to follow the proverbial ostrich when things get thick. Omwenga acknowledged the problem & then quickly backtracked when the Sanhedrin in Jukwaa lashed out at him . Why form a Rapid Response Unit for internal admin work? Is it a war if anything threatens Raila's road to the top? b6k,Don't know what gave you the impression yours truly "backtracked" as his position on this issue has remained consistent and that is, he prefers that Mudavadi not challenge Raila for the nomination but if he does, let him not do so in a manner that would damage both and/or the party. He has also been of the view this is an issue that must be quickly resolved and believes it now has been settled and even if not, he is confident it will be one way or another sooner than later and the outcome will not be what Raila enemies are salivating for.
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Post by merlin on Feb 20, 2012 12:54:53 GMT 3
Job most of what you say is kosher. I fail to see how NSIS can infiltrate the delegates when all these people should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters. b6k,But is this not the danger of grassroots preliminaries? People should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters which implicate they could also be known by the Uhuruto political activists and a little money from the Uhuruto campaign budget would do wonders. So how can ODM stop interference from outsiders in their countrywide nomination process?
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 14:02:12 GMT 3
Omwenga, from your open letter to the DPM we read: The prevailing wisdom between and among most ODM members and supporters, is that you should not challenge Raila for ODM nomination. You have stated a desire to do the opposite, namely, to challenge Raila for the nomination and have couched your desire to do this under a need to have “internal democracy” within ODM. Some who are opposed to your quest to challenge Raila fear you are either compromised by Raila’s and ODM enemies or that you are being misled to believing you can win the presidency when, in fact, your chances of winning the presidency are far much less than Raila’s, given any objective analysis of the current political climate and dynamics. To be sure, the one reason that is being cited by those egging you on to challenge Raila for the ODM nomination, and therefore the presidency, is that you are the more electable of the two, given the plight Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto face. For your part, you have said—and one must take you on your word—that all you seek, is simply to offer a choice to ODM members in who should be the party’s flag-bearer and proceed to seek the presidency on that basis, if given the nod. However, this begs the question, why? When one talks of democracy, this requirement is satisfied in the ODM nomination process because when you and Raila presented yourselves for nomination in 2007, the party spoke and Raila was chosen Party Leader and you were by virtue of having garnered the next highest votes, made the Deputy Party Leader. These are life-time elections unless one so elected acts or does not act in a manner not befitting one holding those positions or otherwise becomes a liability for the party such that removing him or her or seeking a fresh mandate is desirable. Neither you nor Party Leader Raila Odinga has acted or failed to act in a manner not befitting your positions therefore seeking a new mandate from party members is neither desirable nor warranted. It is a fallacy of the worst kind to argue that not seeking a fresh mandate under these circumstances is inconsistent or contrary to the ideals of democracy. Far from it and all one needs to do, is to survey other countries and one would readily find that party leaders are rarely challenged and the only time there is any serious contention as to nomination for party flag-bearer, is when there is no incumbency. In all other times, there may be challenges here and there but they are often token or from the extreme end of the party’s ideological spectrum—a wing which is never satisfied unless the party nominates one of their own and therefore ensuring handy defeat in the general elections where such extreme candidates never win. There is a reason this is the case, namely, why party leaders are rarely challenged and that is, party unity, cohesion and continuity. A party is well served in galvanizing its resources and focusing on its real opponents and that is those who seek to diminish or defeat them at every turn and every resource or energy expended fighting useless fights within the party distracts from this mission and is almost always counterproductive no matter how noble the fight may be. It is also poignant that, in politics, when you see your political opponent—and we are here talking from the perspective of the party—cheering you or egging you to undertake any particular action or not to, know fully well that is always never in the interest of your party but is always in favor of their party or interests. Some of those gleefully cheering you on to challenge Raila for the nomination are Raila’s political enemies and opponents and the last thing they want to see is you being elected president either! This fact alone should give you pause. Unless, of course, you believe that you have a shot at dethroning Raila in ODM and doing a double to vanquish those scheming daily to defeat him—and you by extension—in which case the question you must ask yourself and answer wisely is, at what expense? There are those within ODM who genuinely but perhaps naively believe that you should challenge Raila if anything to say you are your own man. You would be wise to tell them first, you are your own man and have proven so many times over and, it’s not your manhood but nationhood at stake. A protracted albeit even mild battle for ODM nomination would irreversibly harm ODM and doubly so when the net-gain in terms of effort alone will be negligible. It would also potentially weaken ODM and therefore potentially produce a victory for anti-Railaists and ODM opponents who there is little doubt what they stand for and that is, nothing but “stopping” Raila, status quo and reversal of progress we have made as a country in reforms. I suppose the fact that Raila is guaranteed a life time post as leader of ODM is tucked away somewhere in the constitution Phil is yet to inbox me
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Post by b6k on Feb 20, 2012 14:18:45 GMT 3
Job most of what you say is kosher. I fail to see how NSIS can infiltrate the delegates when all these people should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters. b6k,But is this not the danger of grassroots preliminaries? People should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters which implicate they could also be known by the Uhuruto political activists and a little money from the Uhuruto campaign budget would do wonders. So how can ODM stop interference from outsiders in their countrywide nomination process? Merlin, so the bussing in of delegates to the NDC in Nairobi will suddenly make them unknown to the Uhuruto crowd? The fact is they are equally known to Mudavadi & Raila. I've heard rumours that the delegates register has already been tampered with to favor Raila & regardless of what Mudavadi does he is bound to lose. The assumption in this kind of democratic process is that the delegates were selected by their peers because they are people of highstanding wherever they may be from. They shouldn't be people who can be "bought" easily. In a sense holding the exercise at the county level will more likely make them vote the way the people on the ground want than having them dazzled by the bright lights in the big city, with all its temptations, that can make them forget what brought them here in the first place.
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Post by merlin on Feb 20, 2012 16:41:09 GMT 3
b6k,But is this not the danger of grassroots preliminaries? People should be known at the grassroots by ODM supporters which implicate they could also be known by the Uhuruto political activists and a little money from the Uhuruto campaign budget would do wonders. So how can ODM stop interference from outsiders in their countrywide nomination process? Merlin, so the bussing in of delegates to the NDC in Nairobi will suddenly make them unknown to the Uhuruto crowd? The fact is they are equally known to Mudavadi & Raila. I've heard rumours that the delegates register has already been tampered with to favor Raila & regardless of what Mudavadi does he is bound to lose. The assumption in this kind of democratic process is that the delegates were selected by their peers because they are people of highstanding wherever they may be from. They shouldn't be people who can be "bought" easily. In a sense holding the exercise at the county level will more likely make them vote the way the people on the ground want than having them dazzled by the bright lights in the big city, with all its temptations, that can make them forget what brought them here in the first place. b6k,I am not so worried by the internal misappropriations of the nomination process. I have no other option than to trust the democratic process and we have to learn how to make use of it in a fair and honest way. It may not get the top price for cleanliness the first time around though it is a first step in practising democracy within a political party. Although I have my preferences, I am also not worried who will be nominated as flag bearer. The chosen process will be defined and agreed to by all the internal players so not much should go wrong. By wrong I mean lots of hardship and disintegration when candidates are not selected as flag bearer. I prefer the suggested county wide process but can live with the process which will be chosen. My main concern is the outside influence from the Uhuruto camp. They are not bound by the chosen process and could buy the ODM representatives to vote for Mudavadi - or any other candidate. Not that I distrust Mudavadi which I will vote for as president in the general election though for disrupting a democratic process which we have to learn to adhere to will Kenya have a change to move forward. Mind you Uhuruto are no chicken thieves, they are suspected of mass murder, rape, force displacement and grabbing the land of displaced people in the process. I expect they have no scrupulous to bribe some or all the ODM representatives to vote for Mudavadi as they are scared out of their wits of Raila. It looks like a phobia being scared of Raila. Maybe it is not Raila though Democracy they are scared of he seems to represent. Democracy goes hand in hand with Justice (they cannot exist without each other) and then I can understand why they are scared out of their wits. p.s. I am not aware you've heard rumours that the delegates register has already been tampered with to favor Raila & regardless of what Mudavadi does he is bound to lose. Did ODM already choose for a nomination process and is there already a register with nominated delegates?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 20, 2012 17:22:17 GMT 3
Merlin,
ODM already held and concluded grassroots elections, a list of delegates has already been compiled and supposed to have been deposited with the registrar of political parties. This is the only list Mudavadi wants used and nominations supervised by the IEBC. Phil could help us here though.
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Post by mangai on Feb 20, 2012 17:43:49 GMT 3
Kibisu Kabatesi has been/is a literary critic. He'll for instance want to question why you'll say Musalia son of Mudavadi and not just Musalia Mudavadi! From his 'hard hitting rejoinder' he seems to be reading/interpreting too much to what on the face value appears to be a harmless dispatch from the PMPS.
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