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Post by b6k on Jun 29, 2012 10:30:19 GMT 3
Fahari, thanks for posting the link. LOL! What a gem. As I was reading it in the background I was watching BBC news cover the latest on Julian Assange's application for asylum via the Ecuador Embassy in the UK. Jakaswanga, you are a rebel, mate with a cause. Head of Wikileaks from the lakeside! The same kind of rabid comments against Assange by some right wing American news anchors & talking heads on the BBC clip are mirrored right here on Jukwaa against you. I wonder where you will seek asylum though ;D
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Post by b6k on Jun 29, 2012 10:41:12 GMT 3
Whoa! NCIC has finally started earning its keep? Here's a Youtube clip of the offending song: Job, the gist of it is some guy lamenting that his wife (or girlfriend), Nyaboke, has taken off with his kids. He then meanders into a "curse" against her in the chorus where he wishes that she marries all sorts of men which is rife with the usual stereotypes (including a ganja smoking Kisii who's a nutter & surprisingly even a 2 foot tall Japanese man). No surprise as to what ails the Luo man he hopes she will marry. The final jibe is at Nyaboke herself when he calls her an "uncut" woman. So ethnic stereotypes & mysogyny abound in the tune... I will attempt a translation later, time allowing....
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Post by raiswakesho on Jun 29, 2012 23:38:17 GMT 3
If Kenyans at this time in modern age can't agree that ethnic crap should have no place in our society then we have along way to go. Honestly one has to be extremely stupid to even defend such stuff. What a shame!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 30, 2012 0:19:19 GMT 3
If indeed you think Papa Jey is committing the same offense with DeMathew, Kamanda and wa Njoroge, (the reason you brought his name) I suggest you gather the courage and do what another patriotic Kenyan called Wambugu Ngunjiri did. There is this Commission called the National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) which operates under the NCIC Act - one of Kenya's statutory laws passed following the NARA Accord. Just emulate Wambugu Ngunjiri by gathering the recordings and clips and file an official complaint at NCIC. This body has powers to reject or take up any complaint. That aspect of the NARA or the NCIC ever since its inception, I have always considered stupid. Enacted in haste, without much thought, but with the immediacy of fear, after the elite had proved themselves incapable of completing the simple process of counting votes, and the nation imploded. The GCG, with her 44 ministers and 100 assistant ministers, encompassing the whole parliament in cabinet, I have always considered a historical monstrosity and purified stupidity on show. Only Sri Lanka, with its one time cabinet of 118, dubbed the the Elephant cabinet, has ever offered more opportunity for derision in the world of thinking people. Our Mpigs, cabinet and public officials come a close second. Ever since the Owino Misiani fiasco, I have always argued for, and I still do, want an exception clause for artists, be they musicians, filmers, poets, novelists, cartoonists, stand-up comedians, or any other branch I can not come up with now. A civilisation without the exclusivity of art can not command my loyalty. Bureaucrats in control of artistic content?! Guaranteed mediocrity. Kenyan bureaucrats in control of artistic content?! Ha haa! a festival of moronism! As for Owino Misiani, which you again had the honour of injecting into the debate - the Tanzanian national was actually jailed by this government for the Bim en Bim song. In any case he is already dead and long buried in his home in Mara district, Tanzania. In Nyanza we call your type the rejectionists. From when Owino was in trouble, they denounced him as a trouble-making 'foreigner '! see my last remarks at your second stress of the dead TANZANIAN! Allow them space to perform their job independently. Their job, i think, is to terrorize artists, making them always look over their shoulders. Most then going into a realm of sterility,... of self-censorship and politically correct crap. Another manifestation of the stunting influences of totalitarianism, and the policing of thought! This vermin body and the vermin clause they uphold must be fought! It is Jakaswanga who brought up the matter of all these songs here - songs I'm frankly unfamiliar with. Debate within yourself whether they warrant Kibunja's testing or not. If they do, gather the courage to do what Wambugu did. Job, I do not think Onyi papa Jey is committing any offence! Neither do I think the Gikuyu artists nor Misiani committed an offence. Technically they broke the law, like Ngugi did under the repressive KANU regime; like Soyinka did under the military regime; like Nordine Gordimer under apartheid; Okot under Amin; Liyong under Numeiry; and the rest. Post colonial Africa, and indeed the third world, is replete with the graves of writers finding death at the hands of displeased authority. I find the need to err on the side of freedom of expression. I will consider these men matyrs of the free word. Furaha, made it very clear and I laud her clarity of mind, that she would rather err on the side of caution, given the actual historical circumstances of Kenya. It is an opinion I have considered in detail, and reached the compromise that while it should hold for the others, artists should be subject to 'exceptionalism'. An accurate mirror is the best image you can have of your [self!] society. The fear of persecution must not haunt the creative minds of Kenya. You would be doing Kenya a great favour if you gathered all the evidence and take it up with NCIC. Probably Raila, Onyi and Nyong'o indeed have a case to answer regarding ethnic incitement. Take up the mantle if this is not just empty fallutin'. I do not consider it patriotic to join the witch hunt and persecution of Kenyan artists whose works have content not to my liking. My duty is to deconstruct them, render them understandable and if dangerous in my opinion, diffuse the landmine. I am not interested in party-pleasing crap. And I do not subscribe to the doctrine of weak Kenyan minds that need moderation from Mpig-laws. I would rather positive precedents are set to encourage national harmony and cohesion; rather than have musicians from all 42 tribes eking careers out of deriding cultures of other communities. Yap, you belong to the Oweny Standy school. A distinguished debator in one of our clubs in Nyanza. As per the exchanges above which did not bother to read but preconcluded and blasted as derailments ... ;D, I remind you: The unchallenging tranquility of a morgue, I told him off, if artists did not have an exempting clause or exceptionalism. The Bim matter was litigated long before NCIC came into existence...and its author is resting six feet below the ground somewhere near Musoma, Tanzania. 1. There is actually no consensus: bim en ang'o gi kisungu? any takers out there? 2. Second time you stress Owino is a Tanzanian. I will give you this piece of info. When Owino was in trouble after the song, some ex-KANU people who these days are ODM-damu, denounced him as a foreign [tanzanian] trouble maker. 'Gini wakia kata kuma oayoe. Onyalo kata bet jamwa mohon mondo otung wiwa, to waketoree!' --Who knows wherefrom this thing emerged? he may be a 'none-Luo' sowing discord at the behest of others! Folk culture recorded this, and that is why Onyi Papa Jey was warned of the rattlesnake manners of our politicians. But there is a living kick of the sage from his grave, to underline his greatness. Before the Bim en Bim song, the common slur against kikuyus was Jokarabuon. After the song, Jokarabuon no longer refers to gikuyus, actually it has come to mean Luos born and bred in Nairobi. Rumours say these prefer chips and chicken to ugali and fish!It took the mind of Owino to re-state the consciousness, to accommodate the fact of cultural divisions between the motherland and the diaspora, and detoxify and earlier slur, even as he replaced it with another which appears to have caught on like wildfire. The mental precision required to achieve this kind of movement Job, is the stuff of genius. Chaps like me regard and rate Owino's expansive body of work very highly. It is a scale of appreciation where things like Kibunja and their NARA acts are just historical litter. I caught the note of disdain as you confine the Tanzanian to his foreign grave. His contribution to modern Luo culture escapes your elitist mind which only knows english! sawa, but you should be aware of a growing contradiction between the diaspora and the homeland. Luoland Tz may be just be more home, than far off Nrb in Kenya. It is a dynamic world out there.
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Post by einstein on Jun 30, 2012 2:39:30 GMT 3
Daniel Owino MisianiDaniel Owino Misiani (22 February 1940-17 May 2006) was a musician from Kenya. He was known as the "King of History" in Kenya; overseas, he was known as "the grandfather of benga", of which he was a pioneer. Misiani was born in Shirati, Tanzania and grew up in northern Tanzania. His parents were singers, but opposed his choice of a musical career on religious grounds. Nevertheless, he moved to Kenya in the 1960s to be a musician. He first recorded with the Victoria Boys in 1965. The band changed its name many times before becoming popular as Shirati Jazz. He sang mostly in Dholuo and Swahili languages. He is known as a pioneering contributor to the Benga music genre. During his long career he released numerous recordings, with some international releases. He was imprisoned on several occasions for lyrics that were perceived as crossing the line into political criticism. He died in a road traffic accident at an accident blackspot in Kisumu, on the highway to Kakamega, in a crash between a minibus and a public transport van in which many others were injured. At time of his death, aged 66, he was still an active performer. Misiani, who was polygamous, had two wives (Felista and Beatrice) with 14 children. One of his sons, Robert Misiani, pursued a career as a hip hop musician under the stage name Gun B. Robert was best known for "Nampenda" hit, a collaboration with Pilipili. Robert died on October 20, 2007 due to illness.[1] After the death of Daniel Owino Misiani, the leadership of his band Shirati Jazz was taken over by his wife and long-time band member Queen Babito (Beatrice Atieno Owino).[2] See also Luo people of Kenya and Tanzaniaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Owino_Misiani
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Post by b6k on Jun 30, 2012 9:38:14 GMT 3
I caught the note of disdain as you confine the Tanzanian to his foreign grave. His contribution to modern Luo culture escapes your elitist mind which only knows english! sawa, but you should be aware of a growing contradiction between the diaspora and the homeland. Luoland Tz may be just be more home, than far off Nrb in Kenya. It is a dynamic world out there. Interesting. The spectre of the Grand Luo Nation looms large....
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Post by okolowaka on Jun 30, 2012 11:10:50 GMT 3
...Thread deliberately de-railed; let discussions and arguments grow and explore the link between Uhuru and the three musicians under scrutiny. After all it is Uhuru's behind that will be fried if the ICC prosecution decide to use this to paint a clearer picture to the judges, of "The Boss" facing charges of planning, participating in and abetting Crimes against humanity. Back to topic please...
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 30, 2012 11:27:44 GMT 3
b6kI am just curious. Perhaps you have spent some thought on it. In your opinion, Which are the legitimate ways of expressing hate in a country like Kenya? Or be it a legitimate emotion, you think we must maintain appearances, pretend it exists not in Kenya. Hakuna matata? You lurk ;D? that word traumatizes me! I could relapse into infantile rage! Jakaswanga, I would rephrase your question slightly to answer it because expressing hate, even in a legitimate manner, remains hateful by nature. Without a doubt the most effective way of channeling aggression (ie repackaging hate) in a way that is respectable anywhere across the globe is competitive sports. This being Kenya, a football heaven, the best option would be to promote football in all the counties & as much as possible ensure that each team only has sons of the soil playing for it. This way Gor should be only made up lakeside boys, AFC of Western boys, Shabana of Kisii boys, etc across the nation. Thus when the various teams meet on the pitch, you would end up with psuedo-tribal warfare with barbs, punches & kicks restricted to the players on the field. Fans should desist from....uuum throwing missiles & getting into brawls as the battle should be confined to the pitch with victory, or defeat there, being final (easier said than done since even English hooligans have a long history of getting carried away in the heat of the moment). This could be replicated in other sports as well. Track & field events where ofcourse the dynamics would change in terms of "regional domination" Another popular & legitimate way to have this pseudo-warfare would be to set up a Inter-County music contest ala Tusker Project Fame mode. Make sure it's "civilized"competition the Eurovision way but, once again, try as much as possible to ensure those counties that have a "homegrown" majority are represented by people of that zone alone. Market it as a clash of the minstrels from County x, y, z with a heavy emphasis on where they originate from. In fact, encourage call ins from the wananchi huko mashinani because it's better they cast their SMS votes multilple times in such a benign singing contest but refrain to do so from general elections. Naturally if you follow the models above you will be breaking the law as KE allows everyone to live anywhere. This was just a wee demonstration that if there's the will to get communities to show who's the boss in a particular human endeavour without resorting to violence, there are ways it can be done ;D b6k,I can see your 'lurking' days have expired. First this: that paraphrase: were you doing a saatchi and saatchi on me? You remember them days when that buro was the only act in town? teaching politicians a 'shuffle' to deal with the media? This involved a convenient, very slight paraphrase, then an exhaustive answer to that paraphrase, which essentially is very good, and more, solution and practical oriented, thus moving it on! When executed beautifully as you have done here, I do not hesitate to marvel! Maybe that is where you were watching 'cassablanca'! ;D Football: I had taken the trouble to watch Poland vs Russia with a crowd of cultural translators in the recent euro 2012 championships. You know Molotov and Ribbentrop shared her like a cake; Stalin massacred the whole Polish army at Katyn Forest; and Poland, with underground and exiled polish literature pure venom against the Ivans, remained a (Russian speaking) Soviet satellite state up to 'Yesterday' when the Berlin wall fell. --Definately a ki-hii vs bim clash of sorts! Man, if you think we hate one another with our tribes in Afrika, you aint seen the shit in east Europe yet! But this hate is not allowed to burst and interfere with Finance and commerce. Poland as a rising economy now, finds the EU is a saturated export market, and where are HER ENTREPRENEURS LOOKING TOWARD? HA HA, the big and rich market of Russia where they have a competitive advantage! This class of people do not want to hear the 'historical grievance' songs about Katyn, Stalin, Molotov! nor the bloody nose Russia has always given Poland. To make money in Russia, they deny even their greatest poet --I think she won the nobel price, who of course in her lamentations may not have much praise for Ivan! to put it mildly. But guess which songs the football fans sing in the stadium against the Russians?! lady Nyaboke!? So, with your football and songs competitions, you may be on to a good model for the peaceful coexistence of the whole scala [range] of our national emotions however negative, without censorship! (What I do not want is censorship! It is repression, however nobel the national purpose! But I could also 'hazard a guess' like Kituyi: it is the economy stupid. If we run that one good, and folks are well-fed, and the prospects good, then very different songs will be sang. But mess, and mess with the next elections, then ban all the songs you want, but the look on the faces of young men wielding matchettes, will be pure verses of hate.
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Post by b6k on Jun 30, 2012 11:38:44 GMT 3
...Thread deliberately de-railed; let discussions and arguments grow and explore the link between Uhuru and the three musicians under scrutiny. After all it is Uhuru's behind that will be fried if the ICC prosecution decide to use this to paint a clearer picture to the judges, of "The Boss" facing charges of planning, participating in and abetting Crimes against humanity. Back to topic please... Okolowaka, This obsession of screaming "thread derailed" whenever a comment that does not confirm your world view is getting a bit tiresome. Granted this is the first time you have said this, but Job does have a habit of crying wolf in that manner. When the very same Job brings into this thread about "The Boss facing charges of planning, participating in & abetting crimes against humanity" although I could've sworn the thread was about hate speech in music praising UK the angle of NCIC pursuing a Kisii artist, no charges of "thread derailed" are made against him. My friend, why the double standard? Commenting on something interesting raised by a fellow contributor is NOT tantamount to derailing the thread. At best, you ought to ignore the alleged derailment or bring the thread back to topic as you so wish.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 30, 2012 11:42:10 GMT 3
Whoa! NCIC has finally started earning its keep? Here's a Youtube clip of the offending song: Job, the gist of it is some guy lamenting that his wife (or girlfriend), Nyaboke, has taken off with his kids. He then meanders into a "curse" against her in the chorus where he wishes that she marries all sorts of men which is rife with the usual stereotypes (including a ganja smoking Kisii who's a nutter & surprisingly even a 2 foot tall Japanese man). No surprise as to what ails the Luo man he hopes she will marry. The final jibe is at Nyaboke herself when he calls her an "uncut" woman. So ethnic stereotypes & mysogyny abound in the tune... I will attempt a translation later, time allowing.... I hope the star paper left out a large portion of the statement, and is misreporting. Because Banned the song on the strength of their feeling that it was offensive? What kind of crap is that for legal enforcement? or basis for a legal postulation. Was it young Onyango Oloo who in a famous paper which landed him in detention, who once wanted the borders of free-speech and sedition defined, to end an arbitrary, hapzard 'strength of feeling' arguments! b6k, I think we at least need to hear the whole rigmarole of translations, and specifics before condemnations. What Kibunja and his minions feel or not feel when they listen to a song which does not interest them anyway, is totally irrelevant when pronouncing a ban.Their feelings are not the law! this law which I piss on anyway. So, where is the proof the song contravenes that horrid chapter? With more than a thousand ethnic songs produced per fortnight in Kenya, the understaffed Kibunja secretariat needs the services of ECHELON, computerized eavesdropping and processing installed at recording studios!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 30, 2012 12:06:14 GMT 3
...Thread deliberately de-railed; let discussions and arguments grow and explore the link between Uhuru and the three musicians under scrutiny. After all it is Uhuru's behind that will be fried if the ICC prosecution decide to use this to paint a clearer picture to the judges, of "The Boss" facing charges of planning, participating in and abetting Crimes against humanity. Back to topic please... Okolowaka, This obsession of screaming "thread derailed" whenever a comment that does not confirm your world view is getting a bit tiresome. Granted this is the first time you have said this, but Job does have a habit of crying wolf in that manner. When the very same Job brings into this thread about "The Boss facing charges of planning, participating in & abetting crimes against humanity" although I could've sworn the thread was about hate speech in music praising UK the angle of NCIC pursuing a Kisii artist, no charges of "thread derailed" are made against him. My friend, why the double standard? Commenting on something interesting raised by a fellow contributor is NOT tantamount to derailing the thread. At best, you ought to ignore the alleged derailment or bring the thread back to topic as you so wish. b6k If anybody has followed our contributions here, he would not cry thread derailed. --May be Oloo can help Job and Okolowaka out by expelling those who do not confirm their biases. The truth is we have interrogated the relationship in art between form and content, and analyzed it in the context of total freedom of expression [Jakaswanga], vis a vis curtailment for the sake of social responsibility [Furaha/b6kl]. Shining a light in this conundrum, a defining tenet of civilization, is fundamental since the NCIC clause which underpins the Kibunja body, must answer, or take a tangent from the above propositions. Must show the [philosophical] thinking on which this terrorism of Kenyan artists is based! Perhaps the thread was not meant to discuss this Demathew-Kioni songs in all the controversies they raise. Perhaps the thread was meant just to be another nail in the political coffin of Ouro Kenyatta. I suspect, just like Job castigated b6k without having actually read his post, fellows are just perusing, and not having neither the time nor the software to fathom the depths the discussion has reached, they find themselves left with only one option: don't know what is going on here! Oloo help! Lock it up! derailed! NB: I am still waiting for the certified translators of Kibunja, then I will have copies of artistic translators of the same 3 Uhuru songs. Then I will do, time allowing, a textual deconstruction in the light of Kibunja's law. Perhaps Wanjiku will have to pay up ;D, when these arrested guys are found to have been arrested for nothing, and sue for compensation!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 30, 2012 12:08:50 GMT 3
Daniel Owino MisianiDaniel Owino Misiani (22 February 1940-17 May 2006) was a musician from Kenya. He was known as the "King of History" in Kenya; overseas, he was known as "the grandfather of benga", of which he was a pioneer. Misiani was born in Shirati, Tanzania and grew up in northern Tanzania. His parents were singers, but opposed his choice of a musical career on religious grounds. Nevertheless, he moved to Kenya in the 1960s to be a musician. He first recorded with the Victoria Boys in 1965. The band changed its name many times before becoming popular as Shirati Jazz. He sang mostly in Dholuo and Swahili languages. He is known as a pioneering contributor to the Benga music genre. During his long career he released numerous recordings, with some international releases. He was imprisoned on several occasions for lyrics that were perceived as crossing the line into political criticism. He died in a road traffic accident at an accident blackspot in Kisumu, on the highway to Kakamega, in a crash between a minibus and a public transport van in which many others were injured. At time of his death, aged 66, he was still an active performer. Misiani, who was polygamous, had two wives (Felista and Beatrice) with 14 children. One of his sons, Robert Misiani, pursued a career as a hip hop musician under the stage name Gun B. Robert was best known for "Nampenda" hit, a collaboration with Pilipili. Robert died on October 20, 2007 due to illness.[1] After the death of Daniel Owino Misiani, the leadership of his band Shirati Jazz was taken over by his wife and long-time band member Queen Babito (Beatrice Atieno Owino).[2] See also Luo people of Kenya and Tanzaniaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Owino_Misiani Just venture an opinion. The thug in me perished long ago as far as you are concerned! kid gloves only for you!
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Post by b6k on Jun 30, 2012 12:19:43 GMT 3
b6k,I can see your 'lurking' days have expired. First this: that paraphrase: were you doing a saatchi and saatchi on me? You remember them days when that buro was the only act in town? teaching politicians a 'shuffle' to deal with the media? This involved a convenient, very slight paraphrase, then an exhaustive answer to that paraphrase, which essentially is very good, and more, solution and practical oriented, thus moving it on! When executed beautifully as you have done here, I do not hesitate to marvel! Maybe that is where you were watching 'cassablanca'! ;D Football: I had taken the trouble to watch Poland vs Russia with a crowd of cultural translators in the recent euro 2012 championships. You know Molotov and Ribbentrop shared her like a cake; Stalin massacred the whole Polish army at Katyn Forest; and Poland, with underground and exiled polish literature pure venom against the Ivans, remained a (Russian speaking) Soviet satellite state up to 'Yesterday' when the Berlin wall fell. --Definately a ki-hii vs bim clash of sorts! Man, if you think we hate one another with our tribes in Afrika, you aint seen the shit in east Europe yet! But this hate is not allowed to burst and interfere with Finance and commerce. Poland as a rising economy now, finds the EU is a saturated export market, and where are HER ENTREPRENEURS LOOKING TOWARD? HA HA, the big and rich market of Russia where they have a competitive advantage! This class of people do not want to hear the 'historical grievance' songs about Katyn, Stalin, Molotov! nor the bloody nose Russia has always given Poland. To make money in Russia, they deny even their greatest poet --I think she won the nobel price, who of course in her lamentations may not have much praise for Ivan! to put it mildly. But guess which songs the football fans sing in the stadium against the Russians?! lady Nyaboke!? So, with your football and songs competitions, you may be on to a good model for the peaceful coexistence of the whole scala [range] of our national emotions however negative, without censorship! (What I do not want is censorship! It is repression, however nobel the national purpose! But I could also 'hazard a guess' like Kituyi: it is the economy stupid. If we run that one good, and folks are well-fed, and the prospects good, then very different songs will be sang. But mess, and mess with the next elections, then ban all the songs you want, but the look on the faces of young men wielding matchettes, will be pure verses of hate. Jakaswanga, Regarding my lurking days being over all I can say is "to everything, there is a season". A time to lurk, a time to write (or as some may argue "cyber-stalk" or "derail"). As for doing a Saatchi & Saatchi on you, God forbid no. It's just that there is no way you can legally sanction hate without repackaging the beast as it were in a non-lethal type of contest. The us vs them is kosher in competitive sports but frowned upon, rightfully so, in the 19th century type tribal warfare we witnessed in '08. Now you have gone a step further in "derailing" this thread by bringing in Eastern European tribal animosities. How dare you! That said, only a small mind cannot appreciate the parallels you draw from other human experiences compared to our own here in the land we call our home. In fact by bringing up the Eastern European version of hate not being allowed to "interfere with commerce & finance" you've reminded me that the new constitution & devolution, if implemented fairly, sets a level playing field for the ultimate competitive sport: namely that of having successful "ethnic" counties. This will separate the men from the boys once counties GDP's are compared against one another given that all, at least on paper, will have similar monies from the central government's coffers to work with as starting capital. I hear you on the need to avoid censorship. Especially so when at the end of the day, the watchers are also human & can turn a blind eye to the sins of their own as seems to be the case with the UK songs. If Misiani was caught red handed more or less immediately after releasing his tune, why did it take so long to realize these 3 fellows were equally promoting hate? I would imagine it's because when it comes from within your own group talking about the outsiders, it seems like harmless banter. But when you hear it directed against you it is a threat. That's why for the time being I don't mind blanket censorship until (a) we prove that it is wrong whether it's from our IN group or the OUT group & (b) we have a populace that is educated enough not to take those jibes when they do come up, as they inevitably will, as literal truths to the difference from us & them. If devolution goes well, the economy should take care of itself as all groups will have some level of self determination & all will be happy in the land of milk & honey to be called KE, n'est pas?
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Post by b6k on Jun 30, 2012 12:30:46 GMT 3
Okolowaka, This obsession of screaming "thread derailed" whenever a comment that does not confirm your world view is getting a bit tiresome. Granted this is the first time you have said this, but Job does have a habit of crying wolf in that manner. When the very same Job brings into this thread about "The Boss facing charges of planning, participating in & abetting crimes against humanity" although I could've sworn the thread was about hate speech in music praising UK the angle of NCIC pursuing a Kisii artist, no charges of "thread derailed" are made against him. My friend, why the double standard? Commenting on something interesting raised by a fellow contributor is NOT tantamount to derailing the thread. At best, you ought to ignore the alleged derailment or bring the thread back to topic as you so wish. b6k If anybody has followed our contributions here, he would not cry thread derailed. --May be Oloo can help Job and Okolowaka out by expelling those who do not confirm their biases. The truth is we have interrogated the relationship in art between form and content, and analyzed it in the context of total freedom of expression [Jakaswanga], vis a vis curtailment for the sake of social responsibility [Furaha/b6kl]. Shining a light in this conundrum, a defining tenet of civilization, is fundamental since the NCIC clause which underpins the Kibunja body, must answer, or take a tangent from the above propositions. Must show the [philosophical] thinking on which this terrorism of Kenyan artists is based! Perhaps the thread was not meant to discuss this Demathew-Kioni songs in all the controversies they raise. Perhaps the thread was meant just to be another nail in the political coffin of Ouro Kenyatta. I suspect, just like Job castigated b6k without having actually read his post, fellows are just perusing, and not having neither the time nor the software to fathom the depths the discussion has reached, they find themselves left with only one option: don't know what is going on here! Oloo help! Lock it up! derailed! NB: I am still waiting for the certified translators of Kibunja, then I will have copies of artistic translators of the same 3 Uhuru songs. Then I will do, time allowing, a textual deconstruction in the light of Kibunja's law. Perhaps Wanjiku will have to pay up ;D, when these arrested guys are found to have been arrested for nothing, and sue for compensation! Jakaswanga, I couldn't agree with you more ;D
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Post by destiny on Jun 30, 2012 15:18:24 GMT 3
Wow!......... 11,000 hits in just ONE week? Is someone trying to pull my leg? If I'm not wrong, that's a heck of a record!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 1, 2012 0:47:07 GMT 3
Be that as it may, Jakaswanga, the fact remains it is a work of hate as witty as it may seem. b6k,In the event you can go with the concept of culture being non static. That the same 'hateful' song of yesterday, can have a radically different interpretation today. Things having changed on the ground, reference points substituted as goal-posts moved. Are you ready to live with the unbanning of the song, or do you say, once condemned, forever banned? I ask you this, because strange things have been happening in Nyanza. Because the PEV and the GCG have been profound experiences. So profound, that social activists have to face them in their daily outputs. Creating new concepts to enrap the new reality. Mutating old concepts to accomodate wider revelations. The biggest public podia are of course the benga and ahangla artistes: the village criers turned national pulpit pundits. Some stand in opposition to politicians who have to defend the deal they have cut. Eyeing the show is a charged, politicised public. It is in this background that the bombshell came. Another 'Tanzanian', subsequently expelled by odm-jobs from Nairobi, composed a song which would never see the inside of recording studios, though the tune did, because other words praising sianda madongo could be copy-pasted upon it to make money. Musicians have to eat too! The original song had the title: Raila olokore bim koso? [Has Raila turned into 'bim' or what?] how did the arguments go? ( 'kara bim en ang'o, apenjou yawa Luo!')In otherwords, there is a branch of [Luo] criticism of the GCG which defines people like Nyong'o, Dalmas and the rest of the Luos in the GCG, as 'bimbe!' ['baboons']. A symptom of deep tensions within the culture. So the very same Onyi Papa Jey penned another song which escaped the sensors: Raila lok pachi [Raia have a change of mind]. It was a way of saying there was no nusu-mukate, but the PNU had taken all the meat, leaving Agwambo to feed his '6000' with the bones. A Jesus divine feat. This is outside the mental faculties of 'Jokarabuon', just as it is outside those of the Kibunja minions. So the question: bim en ang'o? what is bim actually? any takers? I remember the brilliant Olweny refering to me as the Owino apologist! I had said: Owino was too clever to preach hate against Kikuyus en masse! Just as he was too clever to embrace Luo nationalist hysteria en masse! [But the nuance is hidden, you have to think to unearth it. It was Owino's gift, allowing us all to read our messages in his words]. Decoding this hate song, is very much a work in progress, not to mention artistic mullings on it by other creative musicians minded to be critical, then finding new realms to articulate. Well, given the mental powers of Owino Misiani, what is the GCG in terms of the bim expose? Is it the government of 'ba-goons' en Loch jokabimbe, koso? where the Luos in it are also 'bims!'In other words, culture being dynamic, the meaning of bim too is under pressure. That is an understatement of course. A current analysis of Owino's typology of baboons (for a lack of better translation), timbe jokabimbe, would conform lock and key to the behaviour of the current parliament: the MPigs. Upto the cabinet!You can take that to the bank! Think of all these things when you condemn lady Nyaboke! the composer is not automatically a fool.
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Post by einstein on Jul 1, 2012 6:44:11 GMT 3
Daniel Owino MisianiDaniel Owino Misiani (22 February 1940-17 May 2006) was a musician from Kenya. He was known as the "King of History" in Kenya; overseas, he was known as "the grandfather of benga", of which he was a pioneer. Misiani was born in Shirati, Tanzania and grew up in northern Tanzania. His parents were singers, but opposed his choice of a musical career on religious grounds. Nevertheless, he moved to Kenya in the 1960s to be a musician. He first recorded with the Victoria Boys in 1965. The band changed its name many times before becoming popular as Shirati Jazz. He sang mostly in Dholuo and Swahili languages. He is known as a pioneering contributor to the Benga music genre. During his long career he released numerous recordings, with some international releases. He was imprisoned on several occasions for lyrics that were perceived as crossing the line into political criticism. He died in a road traffic accident at an accident blackspot in Kisumu, on the highway to Kakamega, in a crash between a minibus and a public transport van in which many others were injured. At time of his death, aged 66, he was still an active performer. Misiani, who was polygamous, had two wives (Felista and Beatrice) with 14 children. One of his sons, Robert Misiani, pursued a career as a hip hop musician under the stage name Gun B. Robert was best known for "Nampenda" hit, a collaboration with Pilipili. Robert died on October 20, 2007 due to illness.[1] After the death of Daniel Owino Misiani, the leadership of his band Shirati Jazz was taken over by his wife and long-time band member Queen Babito (Beatrice Atieno Owino).[2] See also Luo people of Kenya and Tanzaniaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Owino_Misiani Just venture an opinion. The thug in me perished long ago as far as you are concerned! kid gloves only for you! Jakaswanga,Why would you want to handle me with kid gloves? If I am a sinner, please just rebuke me!!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 1, 2012 17:49:26 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,why would you want to handle me with kid gloves? If I am a sinner, please just rebuke me!! Brother Einstein! Did we not kiss ;D and make up publicly!? And was not that for real? and the hatchet now is irretrievably burried in the volcanic canyon between Gots Huma and Naya? the deepest parts of the Kavirondo gulf? That is what I mean! By the way, would you know what 'bim' really is, in english?
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 1, 2012 17:57:18 GMT 3
Now you have gone a step further in "derailing" this thread by bringing in Eastern European tribal animosities. How dare you! There is another thread which was meant to tackle this issue, originated by alert topnotch, but is silent like the grave. I will migrate there and leave you with your relevant people! jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7092Bring your Nyaboke translation there when complete! I want to post the whole thinking behind Kibunja's body there. I have found it on the net.
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Post by einstein on Jul 1, 2012 19:56:03 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,why would you want to handle me with kid gloves? If I am a sinner, please just rebuke me!! Brother Einstein! Did we not kiss ;D and make up publicly!? And was not that for real? and the hatchet now is irretrievably burried in the volcanic canyon between Gots Huma and Naya? the deepest parts of the Kavirondo gulf? That is what I mean! By the way, would you know what 'bim' really is, in english? Jakaswanga,Why are you trying to pull my legs my friend? Are you really a Jaluos as you claim to be? Anyway, I'm not a Jaluos but I will try my best to help you with your query. Now at fast glance, 'bim' can be any animal ranging from baboon through chimpanzee to gorilla and orang-outang. But looked at from the perspective of the Jaluos in Kenya, 'bim' cannot refer to the last three, since they are not found anywhere in Luoland and neither were they found anywhere in Sudan. As such Kenyan Luos never gave them any names. If they do have 'Luo' names especially as far as chimpanzees and gorillas are concerned (I don't think orang-outang is found in East Africa), then the names would be from Ugandan, DRC or Tanzanian Luos and as such would most likely not be 'bim'. But baboons are all over Luo Nyanza my friend! Thus 'bim' is the Luo name for a baboon! Alles klar??
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 1, 2012 23:02:01 GMT 3
Brother Einstein! Did we not kiss ;D and make up publicly!? And was not that for real? and the hatchet now is irretrievably burried in the volcanic canyon between Gots Huma and Naya? the deepest parts of the Kavirondo gulf? That is what I mean! By the way, would you know what 'bim' really is, in english? Jakaswanga,Why are you trying to pull my legs my friend? Are you really a Jaluos as you claim to be? Anyway, I'm not a Jaluos but I will try my best to help you with your query. Now at fast glance, 'bim' can be any animal ranging from baboon through chimpanzee to gorilla and orang-outang. But looked at from the perspective of the Jaluos in Kenya, 'bim' cannot refer to the last three, since they are not found anywhere in Luoland and neither were they found anywhere in Sudan. As such Kenyan Luos never gave them any names. If they do have 'Luo' names especially as far as chimpanzees and gorillas are concerned (I don't think orang-outang is found in East Africa), then the names would be from Ugandan, DRC or Tanzanian Luos and as such would most likely not be 'bim'. But baboons are all over Luo Nyanza my friend! Thus 'bim' is the Luo name for a baboon! Alles klar?? Brother Einstein,Ain' pullin' no leg of yours! I know you are not a jaluos, but I think, following your wikipedia link, that you may have read enough about Jaluos, to be able to understand a few controversies about them. So you would know the translation of bim to baboon has not been a walkover. We requested the pinions of archeologists cum zoologists [specializing in bones of animals], to scour known Luo territory looking for skeletons of the apes, indeed with the purpose you suggest: which of these was known to the Luo and was named as such? We could not raise enough money for the project! so it was abandoned! I can outrule ourang outang --no native of Afrika, but how about the sexy bonono?Then a linguist suggested: one of the chief characteristics of a 'baboon' is the fleshy red behind in a certain period. If bim is baboon, is it really possible that there would be no Luo saying about it? like with monkeys?? -- wang'i olil wang' ong'er.Why is there nothing like: Wang'i kwar pier bim mochiek!? Language does have the characteristic of pointing out observed experience, and coding it [eg] in a saying! The baboon rear is too much of a striking feature to be ignored by a culture that observes it! And baboons have a habit of always being around human settlements! So they must have been seen in all their glory in all their seasons. At the same time, Owino's expose on the character of bim, does not seem to match with what is known of baboons! Baboons in sorrow are known to kidnap human babies and raise them as fellow species! Owino's typology outrules this! And then, folkstories of what bim can do, may point to another animal! ( bim dhano adhana --an echo of an upright pose or what??) I can tell you more, but this is just to give you an idea that translating bim to baboon was not conclusive, and in a scientific definition --necessary for a court of law, I would tell the judge a ruling based on that translation would be unsafe! or, to quote Ababu Namwamba, pedestrian!I rather thought it is monkeys, ong'eche, that are allover Luo Nyanza..... (defining a Jaluos is even tougher! ;D)(going to watch second half: does not appear to be Balotelli's day!) Alles kitsch! danke!
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Post by b6k on Jul 2, 2012 12:12:32 GMT 3
Whoa! NCIC has finally started earning its keep? Here's a Youtube clip of the offending song: Job, the gist of it is some guy lamenting that his wife (or girlfriend), Nyaboke, has taken off with his kids. He then meanders into a "curse" against her in the chorus where he wishes that she marries all sorts of men which is rife with the usual stereotypes (including a ganja smoking Kisii who's a nutter & surprisingly even a 2 foot tall Japanese man). No surprise as to what ails the Luo man he hopes she will marry. The final jibe is at Nyaboke herself when he calls her an "uncut" woman. So ethnic stereotypes & mysogyny abound in the tune... I will attempt a translation later, time allowing.... Folks I tried to take the easy way out & get an existing translation of Lady Nyaboke online but there is none. So here's my attempt at it. Maybe Omwenga can proof-read. NB: Backup vocalists asking where she has taken his kids put in brackets, stuff in <> are points of clarification: "I have cried a lot thanks to you, mama Nyaboke (x2) Since you left me a long time has past, mama Nyaboke (x2) Now where then did you take my children, mama Nyaboke (x2) Nyaboke, mama....eeeh, (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I will curse you, I will curse (where did you take my children) Nyaboke return my children to me I'm in misery (where did you take my children) I really miss my children, Nyaboke eeeeh (where did you take my children) Where you took my children to, they are in dire straits, oh no! (where did you take my children) my children are eating yesterday's ugali with salt, I will not have that! (where did you take my children) My children are now reduced to wearing rags for clothes...eeeh (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I curse you, I curse you! eeeh (where did you take my children) My children drink porridge night & day, oh no! (where did you take my children) <& now the curses> Nyaboke, mama...eeeeeh! (where did you take my children) May you look for a man to marry you & fail to find one completely (where did you take my children) May you marry a Luhya who will beat you to cook <ugali> for him day & night (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kuria who will chop you up <with a panga> in the middle of the night (where did you take my children) May you marry a Masaai who will clobber you on the head with his club <chebunyo> (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kalenjin who will shoot you with <bow &> arrows in the stomach (where did you take my children) May you marry a weed smoking Kisii who's out of his mind (where did you take my children) May you marry a Luo who is black as soot & uncircumcised (where did you take my children) May you marry a gun toting Kikuyu thug (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kamba who will throw a stick at you & make you nuts <a reference to kamote> (where did you take my children) May you marry a Turkana who eats <the carcass> of a dead donkey (where did you take my children) May you marry a Japanese who is 2 foot tall (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I curse you, Iyeyeeeyee...(where did you take my children)" SOLO Guitar he then crowns off the tune saying he can't love her any more & refers to her as an uncircumcised woman Ok there you have it. At least the singer even turns on one of his own (a pot smoking Kisii). The odd one out is the 2 foot Japanese. Jakaswanga, pray tell, is this art or hate? Harmless bar chatter or the perpetuation of stereotypes? Over to you, mate
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Post by kamalet on Jul 2, 2012 12:22:49 GMT 3
Whoa! NCIC has finally started earning its keep? Here's a Youtube clip of the offending song: Job, the gist of it is some guy lamenting that his wife (or girlfriend), Nyaboke, has taken off with his kids. He then meanders into a "curse" against her in the chorus where he wishes that she marries all sorts of men which is rife with the usual stereotypes (including a ganja smoking Kisii who's a nutter & surprisingly even a 2 foot tall Japanese man). No surprise as to what ails the Luo man he hopes she will marry. The final jibe is at Nyaboke herself when he calls her an "uncut" woman. So ethnic stereotypes & mysogyny abound in the tune... I will attempt a translation later, time allowing.... Folks I tried to take the easy way out & get an existing translation of Lady Nyaboke online but there is none. So here's my attempt at it. Maybe Omwenga can proof-read. NB: Backup vocalists asking where she has taken his kids put in brackets, stuff in <> are points of clarification: "I have cried a lot thanks to you, mama Nyaboke (x2) Since you left me a long time has past, mama Nyaboke (x2) Now where then did you take my children, mama Nyaboke (x2) Nyaboke, mama....eeeh, (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I will curse you, I will curse (where did you take my children) Nyaboke return my children to me I'm in misery (where did you take my children) I really miss my children, Nyaboke eeeeh (where did you take my children) Where you took my children to, they are in dire straits, oh no! (where did you take my children) my children are eating yesterday's ugali with salt, I will not have that! (where did you take my children) My children are now reduced to wearing rags for clothes...eeeh (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I curse you, I curse you! eeeh (where did you take my children) My children drink porridge night & day, oh no! (where did you take my children) <& now the curses> Nyaboke, mama...eeeeeh! (where did you take my children) May you look for a man to marry you & fail to find one completely (where did you take my children) May you marry a Luhya who will beat you to cook <ugali> for him day & night (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kuria who will chop you up <with a panga> in the middle of the night (where did you take my children) May you marry a Masaai who will clobber you on the head with his club <chebunyo> (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kalenjin who will shoot you with <bow &> arrows in the stomach (where did you take my children) May you marry a weed smoking Kisii who's out of his mind (where did you take my children) May you marry a Luo who is black as soot & uncircumcised (where did you take my children) May you marry a gun toting Kikuyu thug (where did you take my children) May you marry a Kamba who will throw a stick at you & make you nuts <a reference to kamote> (where did you take my children) May you marry a Turkana who eats <the carcass> of a dead donkey (where did you take my children) May you marry a Japanese who is 2 foot tall (where did you take my children) Nyaboke I curse you, Iyeyeeeyee...(where did you take my children)" SOLO Guitar he then crowns off the tune saying he can't love her any more & refers to her as an uncircumcised woman Ok there you have it. At least the singer even turns on one of his own (a pot smoking Kisii). The odd one out is the 2 foot Japanese. Jakaswanga, pray tell, is this art or hate? Harmless bar chatter or the perpetuation of stereotypes? Over to you, mate Yup the moment the C word was used on the Luo then it became hate speech!
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Post by b6k on Jul 2, 2012 12:27:07 GMT 3
Wow!......... 11,000 hits in just ONE week? Is someone trying to pull my leg? If I'm not wrong, that's a heck of a record! Destiny, where do you see those figures? All I can see is Jukwaa now has a lean membership of less than 300 souls, 10% of its former bloated membership list. OO really went to town with his scalpel ;D
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Post by b6k on Jul 2, 2012 12:50:23 GMT 3
Be that as it may, Jakaswanga, the fact remains it is a work of hate as witty as it may seem. b6k,In the event you can go with the concept of culture being non static. That the same 'hateful' song of yesterday, can have a radically different interpretation today. Things having changed on the ground, reference points substituted as goal-posts moved. Are you ready to live with the unbanning of the song, or do you say, once condemned, forever banned? I ask you this, because strange things have been happening in Nyanza. Because the PEV and the GCG have been profound experiences. So profound, that social activists have to face them in their daily outputs. Creating new concepts to enrap the new reality. Mutating old concepts to accomodate wider revelations. The biggest public podia are of course the benga and ahangla artistes: the village criers turned national pulpit pundits. Some stand in opposition to politicians who have to defend the deal they have cut. Eyeing the show is a charged, politicised public. It is in this background that the bombshell came. Another 'Tanzanian', subsequently expelled by odm-jobs from Nairobi, composed a song which would never see the inside of recording studios, though the tune did, because other words praising sianda madongo could be copy-pasted upon it to make money. Musicians have to eat too! The original song had the title: Raila olokore bim koso? [Has Raila turned into 'bim' or what?] how did the arguments go? ( 'kara bim en ang'o, apenjou yawa Luo!')In otherwords, there is a branch of [Luo] criticism of the GCG which defines people like Nyong'o, Dalmas and the rest of the Luos in the GCG, as 'bimbe!' ['baboons']. A symptom of deep tensions within the culture. So the very same Onyi Papa Jey penned another song which escaped the sensors: Raila lok pachi [Raia have a change of mind]. It was a way of saying there was no nusu-mukate, but the PNU had taken all the meat, leaving Agwambo to feed his '6000' with the bones. A Jesus divine feat. This is outside the mental faculties of 'Jokarabuon', just as it is outside those of the Kibunja minions. So the question: bim en ang'o? what is bim actually? any takers? I remember the brilliant Olweny refering to me as the Owino apologist! I had said: Owino was too clever to preach hate against Kikuyus en masse! Just as he was too clever to embrace Luo nationalist hysteria en masse! [But the nuance is hidden, you have to think to unearth it. It was Owino's gift, allowing us all to read our messages in his words]. Decoding this hate song, is very much a work in progress, not to mention artistic mullings on it by other creative musicians minded to be critical, then finding new realms to articulate. Well, given the mental powers of Owino Misiani, what is the GCG in terms of the bim expose? Is it the government of 'ba-goons' en Loch jokabimbe, koso? where the Luos in it are also 'bims!'In other words, culture being dynamic, the meaning of bim too is under pressure. That is an understatement of course. A current analysis of Owino's typology of baboons (for a lack of better translation), timbe jokabimbe, would conform lock and key to the behaviour of the current parliament: the MPigs. Upto the cabinet!You can take that to the bank! Think of all these things when you condemn lady Nyaboke! the composer is not automatically a fool. Jakaswanga, I must confess I'm not big on the local music scene. I grew up to the much heavier guitars of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. I therefore find our artists chords a bit on the t ;Dame side, lyrics aside ;D That said, I had once caught Lady Nyaboke on that show that airs on Citizen in the afternoon while flipping through channels & I listened to it, bemused that they could actually air it on national TV. But then again, these songs are made for a particular audience, in this case a Kisii one. So guys at the studio would probably just know that this tune is "BIG" in Kisii so put it on for those folks to dance to. Is there really, any harm if the message doesn't get to the OUT crowd? I think there is. That said it's not easy to block people from saying that which they do in day to day speech anyway. The blow-back you say Raila is getting with "bim" now being used in reference to him is exactly the reason why the artists should keep their lyrics civil. Today the hero, tomorrow the baboon. Just look at regular American pop music. How did we get from Whitney's "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" to Janet Jackson's "Anytime Any Place"? It's by constantly pushing the envelope. I'm a bit old school & believe an artist can tone down the lyrics & leave it to their listener's imagination to fill in the blanks. That's why Misiani's tune gets a pass, but the UK songs (& Lady Nyaboke) fail miserably by not even attempting to mask what it is they are on about because they are too blunt. I guess maybe it's just a sign of the times... As the late Rodney King said, "why can't we just get along"...or something to that effect
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