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Post by destiny on Jul 2, 2012 14:50:55 GMT 3
Wow!......... 11,000 hits in just ONE week? Is someone trying to pull my leg? If I'm not wrong, that's a heck of a record! Destiny, where do you see those figures? All I can see is Jukwaa now has a lean membership of less than 300 souls, 10% of its former bloated membership list. OO really went to town with his scalpel ;D Check this topic's "views" here: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=newestthreadsI think the hits counter has been "Kivuitu'd" by the NSIS. Nearly 12k "views" as I type this....
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 2, 2012 20:16:54 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, I must confess I'm not big on the local music scene. I grew up to the much heavier guitars of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. I therefore find our artists chords a bit on the t ;Dame side, lyrics aside ;D That said, I had once caught Lady Nyaboke on that show that airs on Citizen in the afternoon while flipping through channels & I listened to it, bemused that they could actually air it on national TV. But then again, these songs are made for a particular audience, in this case a Kisii one. So guys at the studio would probably just know that this tune is "BIG" in Kisii so put it on for those folks to dance to. Is there really, any harm if the message doesn't get to the OUT crowd? I think there is. That said it's not easy to block people from saying that which they do in day to day speech anyway. The blow-back you say Raila is getting with "bim" now being used in reference to him is exactly the reason why the artists should keep their lyrics civil. Today the hero, tomorrow the baboon. Just look at regular American pop music. How did we get from Whitney's "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" to Janet Jackson's "Anytime Any Place"? It's by constantly pushing the envelope. I'm a bit old school & believe an artist can tone down the lyrics & leave it to their listener's imagination to fill in the blanks. That's why Misiani's tune gets a pass, but the UK songs (& Lady Nyaboke) fail miserably by not even attempting to mask what it is they are on about because they are too blunt. I guess maybe it's just a sign of the times... As the late Rodney King said, "why can't we just get along"...or something to that effect b6k,Art it is. What can be argued is the level. Low or high. Simple or complex. And degrees thereof. (One needs to be schooled in the styles of oral delivery practiced by the ethnic group of this singer. So that one can judge the swimmer in his own waters too. But important is also that these guys are having fun! And am sure their audience too has fun, singing along especially when it is the right time of the month! . It is not wise for bureaucrats to start getting in the way of peoples fun! Back to Nyaboke's song: [the translation by b6k of Jukwaa] ;DIt is a play on stereotypes yes. That can be funny and humorous; but not every line may reach that level. The insertion of the 2m Japanese --you noted it as odd, is in my opinion, a stylistic device to inform the dimmer folks amongst us, that 'we are being tongue in cheek here!' That is the purpose of its obvious oddity.1. Pop music is in the rule a commercial business. It works by hits, chart busters. There is actually a formula for massive hits. Play it safe. Send folks out on the razzle. i. Do not stray from the sensibilities of the target audience. Do not be radical, too open minded. It is commercially too risky for pop to be avant-garde, or be experimental. Pop is a tabloid format. But art being art, an artist can not wholly re-enforce the prejudices of his people without running into a creative cul-de-sac. That is why humour and open-ended parables will be used, leaving the audience arguing --like b6k&jakaswanga-- what the hell that really was! You will soon notice that Kibunja and co will be having a run in with THE MOST POPULAR 'ETHNIC' POP MUSICIANS! The most successful in the business. The hit makers. They will be banning the most popular songs in the particular 'vernaculars''. --That, is a landmine. I post, with heavenly arrogance like the prophet Mutahi Ngunyi on the bench with brother Jeff, that the current thuggish elite running Kenya can not inculcate a new artistic preference on the people. What they can do is repress, terrorize, conduct razzias and witch-hunts and pogroms on the authors and contents they dislike; but to bring forth a new mode, nay, their patronage will only augment the sterile Kenya nchi yetu hakuna matata balderdash sorts, for tourists looking for cheap sex! Useless Kibunja is running into the perfect storm. He is antagonizing a force whose depths he understands not. If we can not laugh at ourselves and our neighbours openly, we will get grim on the inside. Then you will have the rage you saw at Woodstock when Jimmy Hendrix did the spanners and bangles. No words but clear. There was a time when they were circumcising Luos by force in some Western area. The call was a drumbeat, without words. Figure out how you make laws banning certain drum beats saying 'omusinde sighted! bring the knife!'
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Post by OtishOtish on Jul 2, 2012 20:20:07 GMT 3
of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. That stuff is music?
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 2, 2012 20:51:58 GMT 3
of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. That stuff is music? Same question somebody asked me far from home, when I played Isabella Muga BIM NYAJUOLA by D07 Shirati Jazz to give them an idea of what makes me tick!
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Post by mzee on Jul 2, 2012 21:01:03 GMT 3
Same question somebody asked me far from home, when I played Isabella Muga BIM NYAJUOLA by D07 Shirati Jazz to give them an idea of what makes me tick! jk Do you know that Isabella Muga Bim Nyajuola is Prof. Ouma Mugas mother? Having said that, why is the word Bim considered an insult in Isabellas context?
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Post by b6k on Jul 3, 2012 7:01:22 GMT 3
Destiny, where do you see those figures? All I can see is Jukwaa now has a lean membership of less than 300 souls, 10% of its former bloated membership list. OO really went to town with his scalpel ;D Check this topic's "views" here: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=newestthreadsI think the hits counter has been "Kivuitu'd" by the NSIS. Nearly 12k "views" as I type this.... ;D You'd be surprised it's just ordinary Kenyans & lurkers pushing up the numbers. Especially those appalled at Jakaswanga's missives but who don't have the spine to take him head on....
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Post by b6k on Jul 3, 2012 7:28:27 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, I must confess I'm not big on the local music scene. I grew up to the much heavier guitars of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. I therefore find our artists chords a bit on the t ;Dame side, lyrics aside ;D That said, I had once caught Lady Nyaboke on that show that airs on Citizen in the afternoon while flipping through channels & I listened to it, bemused that they could actually air it on national TV. But then again, these songs are made for a particular audience, in this case a Kisii one. So guys at the studio would probably just know that this tune is "BIG" in Kisii so put it on for those folks to dance to. Is there really, any harm if the message doesn't get to the OUT crowd? I think there is. That said it's not easy to block people from saying that which they do in day to day speech anyway. The blow-back you say Raila is getting with "bim" now being used in reference to him is exactly the reason why the artists should keep their lyrics civil. Today the hero, tomorrow the baboon. Just look at regular American pop music. How did we get from Whitney's "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" to Janet Jackson's "Anytime Any Place"? It's by constantly pushing the envelope. I'm a bit old school & believe an artist can tone down the lyrics & leave it to their listener's imagination to fill in the blanks. That's why Misiani's tune gets a pass, but the UK songs (& Lady Nyaboke) fail miserably by not even attempting to mask what it is they are on about because they are too blunt. I guess maybe it's just a sign of the times... As the late Rodney King said, "why can't we just get along"...or something to that effect b6k,Art it is. What can be argued is the level. Low or high. Simple or complex. And degrees thereof. (One needs to be schooled in the styles of oral delivery practiced by the ethnic group of this singer. So that one can judge the swimmer in his own waters too. But important is also that these guys are having fun! And am sure their audience too has fun, singing along especially when it is the right time of the month! . It is not wise for bureaucrats to start getting in the way of peoples fun! Back to Nyaboke's song: [the translation by b6k of Jukwaa] ;DIt is a play on stereotypes yes. That can be funny and humorous; but not every line may reach that level. The insertion of the 2m Japanese --you noted it as odd, is in my opinion, a stylistic device to inform the dimmer folks amongst us, that 'we are being tongue in cheek here!' That is the purpose of its obvious oddity.1. Pop music is in the rule a commercial business. It works by hits, chart busters. There is actually a formula for massive hits. Play it safe. Send folks out on the razzle. i. Do not stray from the sensibilities of the target audience. Do not be radical, too open minded. It is commercially too risky for pop to be avant-garde, or be experimental. Pop is a tabloid format. But art being art, an artist can not wholly re-enforce the prejudices of his people without running into a creative cul-de-sac. That is why humour and open-ended parables will be used, leaving the audience arguing --like b6k&jakaswanga-- what the hell that really was! You will soon notice that Kibunja and co will be having a run in with THE MOST POPULAR 'ETHNIC' POP MUSICIANS! The most successful in the business. The hit makers. They will be banning the most popular songs in the particular 'vernaculars''. --That, is a landmine. I post, with heavenly arrogance like the prophet Mutahi Ngunyi on the bench with brother Jeff, that the current thuggish elite running Kenya can not inculcate a new artistic preference on the people. What they can do is repress, terrorize, conduct razzias and witch-hunts and pogroms on the authors and contents they dislike; but to bring forth a new mode, nay, their patronage will only augment the sterile Kenya nchi yetu hakuna matata balderdash sorts, for tourists looking for cheap sex! Useless Kibunja is running into the perfect storm. He is antagonizing a force whose depths he understands not. If we can not laugh at ourselves and our neighbours openly, we will get grim on the inside. Then you will have the rage you saw at Woodstock when Jimmy Hendrix did the spanners and bangles. No words but clear. There was a time when they were circumcising Luos by force in some Western area. The call was a drumbeat, without words. Figure out how you make laws banning certain drum beats saying 'omusinde sighted! bring the knife!' Jakaswanga, poor art it is then. However, given our recent PEV experience I would rather err on the side of caution & enforce bans than let the artists run riot with their lyrics & lay the ground for the next episode of PEV. In a sense KE is an example of what happens when you go from dictatorship to a "relatively" free society as we've seen in the transition from the Moi era to the Kibaki regime. As a people we probably still require an element of the iron fist & less of Kibaki's laissez faire approach to practically everything, except power. After all, he never seems to mind what you call him (just check the Jukwaa archives for all sorts of names from stocky amphibians to raving mammals) but try to do a PM on him & mess with his power base & you'll quickly know who's the boss. I agree with you the writer of Lady Nyaboke is taking the mickey in his rant against Nyaboke. Alas given that the general populace is still on recovery from PEV, & many will fail to see the joke & take some of these things as literal truths, I would still back a ban. Trust me, tongue in cheek is not appreciated or understood by everyone as our clashes with the Sanhedrin on Jukwaa forum can readily attest to. Jimmy Hendrix did a rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. Unless you were exercising your right to poetic licence to rename it spangles & banners ;D As for the talking drums calling for the knife, as you have rightly put it, "there was a time" it was common. Now it is not. People move on to, hopefully, better things to get their cheap thrills....
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Post by b6k on Jul 3, 2012 7:31:02 GMT 3
of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, & good ol'Ozzy Osbourne et al. That stuff is music? Otishotish, TEHO's....
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 3, 2012 20:42:38 GMT 3
b6kBy the way, the adaptability of otishotish is legendary. Given a bit of a helpful challenge, I am sure he would learn to appreciate Led Zeppelin. You see when Oloo, taking a leaf from the land that used to be lorded over by the god Enver Hoxha, told otishotish that he could not pass gas, aka fart, higher than the lower end of his air-tube, aka gas-hole, otishotish promised to experiment, and report back to jukwaa ;D. A sporting character if ever there was one! our otish!So i propose this bridge: we introduce otishotish to Slash from Guns and Roses, doing a rendition of Aretha Franklins Knocking on a heavens door. Otish take the guitar at 2:48 and report back to us like you did on that gas emission!It is a Europe meet Afrika, in the sense of the blues tradition of the USA blended with rampant white rage! May just be identifiable as music to you. --This is your 'Chicago's Howlin' Wolf' from the other side of Obama's parentage! Come on man! I am sure you can fart higher than your ass!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 3, 2012 20:58:19 GMT 3
Same question somebody asked me far from home, when I played Isabella Muga BIM NYAJUOLA by D07 Shirati Jazz to give them an idea of what makes me tick! jk Do you know that Isabella Muga Bim Nyajuola is Prof. Ouma Mugas mother? Having said that, why is the word Bim considered an insult in Isabellas context? Jaduong', yes, I have heard tell she indeed is/was the prof.'s mum. I can not testify to concrete knowledge, but the fellows I heard it from looked certain of their facts. Í have never heard Owino's epithet, Bim Nyajuola, as applied to Isabella, qualified as an insult. It was always a praise, possibly a reference to how she defended her personal space and her professional territory. There were not many Janawi Madhakos around. So she was unique. ( Nyajuola = Nyagara, as in not any closer: dont mess with me!] She is also qualified as 'nego to chiero' which means --blowing the trumpet at the highest note, she has powers over life and death by the grace of God, rather than the literal 'she dispatches and resurrects at will, according to God's plan.' But I would nevertheless be pleasantly surprised to hear another listener make a case for the insult postulation.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 3, 2012 21:17:53 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, poor art it is then. However, given our recent PEV experience I would rather err on the side of caution & enforce bans than let the artists run riot with their lyrics & lay the ground for the next episode of PEV. In a sense KE is an example of what happens when you go from dictatorship to a "relatively" free society as we've seen in the transition from the Moi era to the Kibaki regime. As a people we probably still require an element of the iron fist & less of Kibaki's laissez faire approach to practically everything, except power. After all, he never seems to mind what you call him (just check the Jukwaa archives for all sorts of names from stocky amphibians to raving mammals) but try to do a PM on him & mess with his power base & you'll quickly know who's the boss. I agree with you the writer of Lady Nyaboke is taking the mickey in his rant against Nyaboke. Alas given that the general populace is still on recovery from PEV, & many will fail to see the joke & take some of these things as literal truths, I would still back a ban. Trust me, tongue in cheek is not appreciated or understood by everyone as our clashes with the Sanhedrin on Jukwaa forum can readily attest to. Jimmy Hendrix did a rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. Unless you were exercising your right to poetic licence to rename it spangles & banners ;D As for the talking drums calling for the knife, as you have rightly put it, "there was a time" it was common. Now it is not. People move on to, hopefully, better things to get their cheap thrills.... First: Jimmy Hendrix. No, b6k, no poetic license! just a plain mistake on my part. It is just that being a continental, sometimes the nuance in these anglo-saxon delights do escape us! [Like from here, Canada is reported as if it is part of the USA. Quebec is the separate state!] I can live with that criticism of Lady Nyaboke being poor art. Pop is a snack. Fast food. Mostly of limited if not minimal culinary indulgence in the creative kitchen. Today hot in the charts, tomorrow dead as to be extinct! The high of the cheap thrill then! But for heavens sake! if the election had not been botched, I doubt there would have been Violence, of any sort. I think you can ban all the songs you think inflammatory until the airwaves and all media are childish innocent in content, but so long the question of legitimacy of a government is not clear and is contested, the latent tension will still burst. I actually do not think the propagation of violence causes violence. Sure it lowers the threshold, but it would have to be another event, the trigger, an unfair and unjust business like the rigging of an election, or something heinous like the Rodney King video. The system is already rot, by the time the violence explodes, with or without musicians singing slurs! Close to half a century after independence, I am very wary of over-patronising the populace, shielding their 'weak' minds from bad influence! That was why the 'whites' were running South Africa you know. The blackman looked adult, but well, his.. undeveloped.. mind couldn't handle the complexities of running a modern state! ;D
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Post by b6k on Jul 4, 2012 17:13:16 GMT 3
Well Jakaswanga, the UK trio have been charged. More below... Kenyan musicians charged with hate speech Written By:Dzuya Walter, Posted: Wed, Jul 04, 2012 Kamande wa Kioi. Three Kikuyu musicians accused of propagating hate speech through their songs have been charged in a Nairoi court. The trio, Kamande wa Kioi, Muigai Wa Njoroge and John Demathew denied the hate speech and incitement to violence charges on Wednesday and were each released on a cash bail of Sh 100,000. The three musicians have been under investigations by National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) that recommended their prosecution. They were represented by five lawyers who told the magistrate that they will be challenging the charges at High Court arguing their clients have constitutional rights to express themselves. The Musicians through their lawyers have accused NCIC of criminalizing and giving insightful interpretation to their songs. They were accused of producing and publishing songs in Kikuyu language with words that were intended to cause hatred, hostility and discrimination in the society. If found guilty, the musicians may be imprisoned for a term not exceeding three years or fined Sh1 million or both. The commission has contacted the Media Council of Kenya in a bid to get a log of all media houses which have been playing the songs. Section 62 of the Cohesion Act criminalizes the dissemination of hate speech. The case against them will now be heard from the 6 to the 10th of August 2012 Kioi's song Uhuru ni Witu (Uhuru is Ours) is alleged to be to be portraying Prime Minister Raila Odinga as the architect of the ICC cases against Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta. On Tuesday, their colleagues from Central Kenya and the Kikuyu Council of Elders defended them over the allegations. The musicians claimed that their freedom of creativity is being infringed upon while the elders accused the commission of bias adding that they have lost confidence in the chair Mzalendo Kibunjia. Kioi has said that every tribe has a right to praise its leaders in their own language. He added that the translations being circulated missed the point of his song. DeMathew has also maintained that his song, Wituite Hiti (You Have Made Yourself a Hyena), has been subject to misinterpretation. Njoroge has noted that there is different interpretation of songs and some people are misinterpreting his song titled Hague-Bound. www.kbc.co.ke/news.asp?nid=77203
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2012 17:29:19 GMT 3
As Kibunjia falters, touchy songs spread like bush fire Updated Monday, July 02 2012 at 20:00 GMT+3 No stones will be left unturned, National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) chairman Mzalendo Kibunjia has assured, on the probe to ascertain whether music by three popular vernacular musicians amount to hate speech.
Kibunjia’s team has obtained audio and video recordings of the songs and questioned the musicians. The institution is also awaiting translations of the songs, which will help in making its decision.
Anyone who has listened to or watched the videos of the songs, which have been denounced by Uhuru Kenyatta’s allies, will attest that some words used are indefensible. But that is not what worries PointBlank, as NCIC investigators slowly turn the stones, the music is spreading like bush fire.
The songs are being played in bars, matatus and markets. And that is not all, some agents are cashing in on the publicity the music has generated to make a killing. They are moving in residential areas with vehicles mounted with powerful speakers playing and selling the music.
PointBlank wonders what effect will Kibunjia’s verdict have, especially if the songs are found to spread hate.www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000061001&story_title=As-Kibunjia-falters,-touchy-songs-spread-like-bush-fire
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2012 17:45:26 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, poor art it is then. However, given our recent PEV experience I would rather err on the side of caution & enforce bans than let the artists run riot with their lyrics & lay the ground for the next episode of PEV. In a sense KE is an example of what happens when you go from dictatorship to a "relatively" free society as we've seen in the transition from the Moi era to the Kibaki regime. As a people we probably still require an element of the iron fist & less of Kibaki's laissez faire approach to practically everything, except power. After all, he never seems to mind what you call him (just check the Jukwaa archives for all sorts of names from stocky amphibians to raving mammals) but try to do a PM on him & mess with his power base & you'll quickly know who's the boss. I agree with you the writer of Lady Nyaboke is taking the mickey in his rant against Nyaboke. Alas given that the general populace is still on recovery from PEV, & many will fail to see the joke & take some of these things as literal truths, I would still back a ban. Trust me, tongue in cheek is not appreciated or understood by everyone as our clashes with the Sanhedrin on Jukwaa forum can readily attest to. Jimmy Hendrix did a rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. Unless you were exercising your right to poetic licence to rename it spangles & banners ;D As for the talking drums calling for the knife, as you have rightly put it, "there was a time" it was common. Now it is not. People move on to, hopefully, better things to get their cheap thrills.... First: Jimmy Hendrix. No, b6k, no poetic license! just a plain mistake on my part. It is just that being a continental, sometimes the nuance in these anglo-saxon delights do escape us! [Like from here, Canada is reported as if it is part of the USA. Quebec is the separate state!] I can live with that criticism of Lady Nyaboke being poor art. Pop is a snack. Fast food. Mostly of limited if not minimal culinary indulgence in the creative kitchen. Today hot in the charts, tomorrow dead as to be extinct! The high of the cheap thrill then! But for heavens sake! if the election had not been botched, I doubt there would have been Violence, of any sort. I think you can ban all the songs you think inflammatory until the airwaves and all media are childish innocent in content, but so long the question of legitimacy of a government is not clear and is contested, the latent tension will still burst. I actually do not think the propagation of violence causes violence. Sure it lowers the threshold, but it would have to be another event, the trigger, an unfair and unjust business like the rigging of an election, or something heinous like the Rodney King video. The system is already rot, by the time the violence explodes, with or without musicians singing slurs! Close to half a century after independence, I am very wary of over-patronising the populace, shielding their 'weak' minds from bad influence! That was why the 'whites' were running South Africa you know. The blackman looked adult, but well, his.. undeveloped.. mind couldn't handle the complexities of running a modern state! ;D I too can't trust the judgement of people like Kibunjia to decide what art is acceptable and what isn't. Censorship is a slippery slope that can be extremely dangerous particularly when put in the hands of ineffective and counterproductive people like Kibunjia. For one thing I don't think Kenya's stand-up comedians and cartoonist who are very talented and very very funny will operate freely now given this development. They make lots of jokes about various ethnic groups. And they usually have me in stitches including when they go after stereotypes about my ethnic group. I'm even afraid of putting an example here in case Kibunjia goes after them.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 4, 2012 20:35:51 GMT 3
b6k, I have not been able to locate the official translation paraded in court. If I do not succeed I will use the concerned Kenyan translations to do whatever it is I will. But as I still await the certified copy of the translations as put before the court by Kibunja and his band of cultural assassins, I have this to say. I will continue to re-enforce the voices of those decrying this colonial style persecution of our musicians by an alienated elite. An elite which does not have time for this kind of art anyway. And that is putting it mildly. Neither have they thought about it --its place in the formation of national identity; nor just thought about it as thing in itself. But they have the instinct to distrust it. Yes, they must terrorize it, squash it, Because ethnic pop is one of the, if not THE most independent branches of the economy. No foreign aid, no begging-bowl local experts with their plans to trap donors; no know-all foreign experts taking charge of the simple locals --like at the treasury & finance ministry; nyet! this is a self-sustaining industry where the native is top. But this self-reliance is sedition in a neo-colonial economy. A self-conscious creativity and un-apologetic mixture of commerce and banter! And succesful too. A brutal condemnation of the 'national culture'! I will repeat this. This is a branch of the african economy without a dependency complex. This branch does not fear international sanctions, economic boycotts. They do not fear the world bank, the EU, any super-power. Nor the closure of foreign markets! This is JUCHE! as not even the Great Leader ;D could mean! Our musicians do not fear competition! the music market in Kenya {and Afrika} is a totally free market. Exposed to the ravages of the international competition. Every competitor from every continent can peddle his wares. Our musicians weathers the storm. I become very lenient with them. But our political elite operate a closed system of privileges. Their jobs are not internationaly advertised, but restricted to 'nationality'. Such a protected mindset must never determine the thinking of an independent market. It has an inbuilt inferiority. And it is this mediocrity I detest, because it is what I see as the main ideological purpose of Kibunja's law. Basta!
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Post by mugabe on Jul 4, 2012 22:58:30 GMT 3
Misplaced priorities indeed for some of my colleagues here. Let us destroy our nation, let us destroy our future in return for 'culture'. Whether one likes Kibunja or not what matters is the future of the nation. This is not the US we are talking about. This is a land of uneducated peasants who can not be trusted to think for themselves. Yes I am being serious. On this issue, the future of Kenya will demand harsh measures. If Fascism can act as the engine of progress then so be it. Defending of freedom of expression at all costs is the signature of people who did not feel the effects of violence. When faced with national suicide the nation must embrace the right measures.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jul 4, 2012 23:30:35 GMT 3
mugabe,
We keep telling folks here that there is no form of art called hate. There are many tools human beings use to hide hatred and fascism and art including music is part of that menu. Now when such hatred is condemned they turn around and say art or music is being condemned. Anybody who tells us that there can be no art or music without ethnic hatred in Kenya is being stingy with the truth.
There are strerotypes and what we can call baises which will often find their way into any art form. In fact movies are notorious with that. Those are just ignorant folks and they can be entertaining.
That is why we watch Eddie Murphy's Zamunda stuff and laugh. But if Eddie was saying he or anybody else should kill those idiot Africans it would be a very different story and it wouldn't be funny. In fact he would hardly find a studio to accept his "art" even though many of them (studios) are owned and run by some big time racists who probably want Africans dead. That is what some people stubbornly don't want to deal with and they go on and on about art. I haven't read the thread for days so may be I missed something.
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Post by OtishOtish on Jul 5, 2012 0:29:25 GMT 3
Misplaced priorities indeed for some of my colleagues here. Let us destroy our nation, let us destroy our future in return for 'culture'. Whether one likes Kibunja or not what matters is the future of the nation. This is not the US we are talking about. This is a land of uneducated peasants who can not be trusted to think for themselves. Yes I am being serious. On this issue, the future of Kenya will demand harsh measures. If Fascism can act as the engine of progress then so be it. Defending of freedom of expression at all costs is the signature of people who did not feel the effects of violence. When faced with national suicide the nation must embrace the right measures. Absolutely. Art can wait until we achieve Vision 2030 3020. The last thing we need right now is warm-up exrecises for PEV II.
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Post by nalinali on Jul 5, 2012 2:35:21 GMT 3
mugabe,We keep telling folks here that there is no form of art called hate. There are many tools human beings use to hide hatred and fascism and art including music. Now when such hatred is condemned they turn around and say art or music is being condemned. Anybody who tells us that there can be no art or music without ethnic hatred in Kenya is being stingy with the truth. There are strerotypes and what we can call baises which will often find their way into any art form. In fact movies are notorious with that. Those are just ignorant folks and they can be entertaining. That is why we watch Eddie Murphy's Zamunda stuff and laugh. But if Eddie was saying he or anybody else should kill those idiot Africans it would be a very different story and it wouldn't be funny. In fact he would hardly find a studio to accept his art even though many of them (studios) are owned and run by some big time racists who probably want Africans dead. That is what some people stubbornly don't want to deal with and they go on and on about art. I haven't read the thread for days so may be I missed something. Adongo You touch upon something in respect of art that I agree with, and conversely, that which Jakaswanga's thick skull cannot fathom-going by his/her ostensive yapping about unbounded poetic license. Wise counsel demands that we sometimes have the ability to uncouple the two; art from propaganda or hate, if we are to understand the facts about the three artists targeted for prosecution on charges of ethnic incitement. It all reminds me of the great moment in Hollywood's Calender when Denzel Washington and Halle Berry won Oscars. On the surface, they stood tall as having achieved a first (after Sidney's much earlier recognition) for African American actors, but underneath the sense of achievement was the unsettling question as to why they got the awards for the specific movies in which their participation earned them such recognition viewed against other movies in which they excelled. Turns out the movies were reifying the stereotypes about African Americans in respect of sex and violence. Let us not turn critical issues touching on hate and ethnic bigotry by being fixated on trivial and one-dimensional certitudes on poetic license.
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Post by b6k on Jul 5, 2012 8:45:56 GMT 3
b6k, I have not been able to locate the official translation paraded in court. If I do not succeed I will use the concerned Kenyan translations to do whatever it is I will. But as I still await the certified copy of the translations as put before the court by Kibunja and his band of cultural assassins, I have this to say. I will continue to re-enforce the voices of those decrying this colonial style persecution of our musicians by an alienated elite. An elite which does not have time for this kind of art anyway. And that is putting it mildly. Neither have they thought about it --its place in the formation of national identity; nor just thought about it as thing in itself. But they have the instinct to distrust it. Yes, they must terrorize it, squash it, Because ethnic pop is one of the, if not THE most independent branches of the economy. No foreign aid, no begging-bowl local experts with their plans to trap donors; no know-all foreign experts taking charge of the simple locals --like at the treasury & finance ministry; nyet! this is a self-sustaining industry where the native is top. But this self-reliance is sedition in a neo-colonial economy. A self-conscious creativity and un-apologetic mixture of commerce and banter! And succesful too. A brutal condemnation of the 'national culture'! I will repeat this. This is a branch of the african economy without a dependency complex. This branch does not fear international sanctions, economic boycotts. They do not fear the world bank, the EU, any super-power. Nor the closure of foreign markets! This is JUCHE! as not even the Great Leader ;D could mean! Our musicians do not fear competition! the music market in Kenya {and Afrika} is a totally free market. Exposed to the ravages of the international competition. Every competitor from every continent can peddle his wares. Our musicians weathers the storm. I become very lenient with them. But our political elite operate a closed system of privileges. Their jobs are not internationaly advertised, but restricted to 'nationality'. Such a protected mindset must never determine the thinking of an independent market. It has an inbuilt inferiority. And it is this mediocrity I detest, because it is what I see as the main ideological purpose of Kibunja's law. Basta! Jakaswanga, so now the censorship debate has become a class struggle? ;D As we have seen many times on Jukwaa & elsewhere, the elite tend to hold very similar if not more ultra-conservative views. The one thing that enables them to transcend such blanket views is the "cleavages" OO once alluded to in one of his missives. Money, or the love of it, can occasionally get them to overlook the old prejudices & allow mixing of old "enemies". Where, pray tell, will the average mwananchi in the bundus have an opportunity to get beyond the usual stereotypes which are constantly reinforced in culture & music?
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 5, 2012 20:11:03 GMT 3
b6k, I have not been able to locate the official translation paraded in court. If I do not succeed I will use the concerned Kenyan translations to do whatever it is I will. But as I still await the certified copy of the translations as put before the court by Kibunja and his band of cultural assassins, I have this to say. I will continue to re-enforce the voices of those decrying this colonial style persecution of our musicians by an alienated elite. An elite which does not have time for this kind of art anyway. And that is putting it mildly. Neither have they thought about it --its place in the formation of national identity; nor just thought about it as thing in itself. But they have the instinct to distrust it. Yes, they must terrorize it, squash it, Because ethnic pop is one of the, if not THE most independent branches of the economy. No foreign aid, no begging-bowl local experts with their plans to trap donors; no know-all foreign experts taking charge of the simple locals --like at the treasury & finance ministry; nyet! this is a self-sustaining industry where the native is top. But this self-reliance is sedition in a neo-colonial economy. A self-conscious creativity and un-apologetic mixture of commerce and banter! And succesful too. A brutal condemnation of the 'national culture'! I will repeat this. This is a branch of the african economy without a dependency complex. This branch does not fear international sanctions, economic boycotts. They do not fear the world bank, the EU, any super-power. Nor the closure of foreign markets! This is JUCHE! as not even the Great Leader ;D could mean! Our musicians do not fear competition! the music market in Kenya {and Afrika} is a totally free market. Exposed to the ravages of the international competition. Every competitor from every continent can peddle his wares. Our musicians weathers the storm. I become very lenient with them. But our political elite operate a closed system of privileges. Their jobs are not internationaly advertised, but restricted to 'nationality'. Such a protected mindset must never determine the thinking of an independent market. It has an inbuilt inferiority. And it is this mediocrity I detest, because it is what I see as the main ideological purpose of Kibunja's law. Basta! Jakaswanga, so now the censorship debate has become a class struggle? ;D As we have seen many times on Jukwaa & elsewhere, the elite tend to hold very similar if not more ultra-conservative views. The one thing that enables them to transcend such blanket views is the "cleavages" OO once alluded to in one of his missives. Money, or the love of it, can occasionally get them to overlook the old prejudices & allow mixing of old "enemies". Where, pray tell, will the average mwananchi in the bundus have an opportunity to get beyond the usual stereotypes which are constantly reinforced in culture & music?[/ B6K, Where? Pray? Tell? I thought from his toilet office at the American embassy in Nairobi, the disgraced diplomat was financing a massive 'civic education' programme!? That we, the civil society, misappropriated the money and balled it away at Mugithi, Ramogi, Kametusa and other such nights, merrying to the songs with the hateful contents we were suppose to combat with the money, is another discussion please! SO:The argument about freedom of creativity and expression, and the relationship between art, its content and interpretation, has now run --though I can see a few Johny come latelies who have not gone through the 12 pages here, and are still marooned at page 1. Further, the lawyers are now on it, and we will keep abreast with their submissions in court as they tie up the legal details --(I safely let the legal details for them!) ;D So here, on mighty Jukwaa, we have to move on, take it to a new level. Give the subject --the persecution of artists because of elite defined sedition-- historical relevance and unearth the ideological hostility that it comes from. Not forgetting the wily use of the myth of national cohesion to underwrite a parochial repressive, anti-people agenda. The PEV is being mongered to blackmail the population into denouncing the daily articulations of their reality. Some prefer not to see reality for what it is. They prefer cobwebs in their minds. But some, like a soldier realist who must prepare to receive forged iron --the iron that taketh away life as it punctures the body and drains blood, will appreciate reality in all its ramifications. the good the bad and the ugly!I do not mind if KBC does not play these songs! KBC can play Mozart and Bach the whole day in operation civilize the musical tastes of the native! --Saving the native from monotonous drumming sounds and mumbo-jumbo chants going for lyrics! But let it be an open market. But most important. Do not arrest any local musician. PEV was about the injustice of the rigged election. And the next PEV will be about another rigged elections. Music is just a sound-track as the elite destroys the national cohesion, and the -much cherished?-nation.class struggele aspect:[/b]
Law can, and has always been used as a tool of cultural repression, as an aspect of cultural domination. So when one class, speaking Latin, describes basic anglo-saxon poetry as barbarian hate, there is more to that argument.
From the traditions of basic anglo-saxon verbal arts, would later on emerge Shakespeare, refining all the prior into a standard. But for his genius to crystallize, he needs the whole range of the old anglo-saxon canon. All the ingredients including the most vile!
Meanwhile centuries later, Latin is confined to a dungeon called the Vatican. A dead language. But how many anglo-saxon musicians did the Kibunjas of the Romans cruxify? --(Countless: until there was no more land in the british isles to burry them, so that their bodies were committed to rivers that feed the sea, where the fanged tribe of sharks love a free meal!)
So Yes, like Marx said: sometimes the [class] struggle may adopt imperceptible forms, friendly disguises, but it is always there, slave versus master, their antagonism fundamental, even if appearing otherwise!
Let a thousand flowers bloom! Send the mind-prefects to the guillotine!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 5, 2012 20:24:16 GMT 3
Nalinali,You are much too kind sir! My thick skull can afford to be magnanimous with you! Your light skull containing only light stuff that ever floats on the surface, today gets the gold medal in thick thinking! And for the other, that will be the day Jesus comes back, when one shall hear another postulate 'hate is a form of art'! It is usually stated thus: hate yes, can be an emotive content of art. mugabe,We keep telling folks here that there is no form of art called hate. There are many tools human beings use to hide hatred and fascism and art including music. Now when such hatred is condemned they turn around and say art or music is being condemned. Anybody who tells us that there can be no art or music without ethnic hatred in Kenya is being stingy with the truth. There are strerotypes and what we can call baises which will often find their way into any art form. In fact movies are notorious with that. Those are just ignorant folks and they can be entertaining. That is why we watch Eddie Murphy's Zamunda stuff and laugh. But if Eddie was saying he or anybody else should kill those idiot Africans it would be a very different story and it wouldn't be funny. In fact he would hardly find a studio to accept his art even though many of them (studios) are owned and run by some big time racists who probably want Africans dead. That is what some people stubbornly don't want to deal with and they go on and on about art. I haven't read the thread for days so may be I missed something. Adongo You touch upon something in respect of art that I agree with, and conversely, that which Jakaswanga's thick skull cannot fathom-going by his/her ostensive yapping about unbounded poetic license. Wise counsel demands that we sometimes have the ability to uncouple the two; art from propaganda or hate, if we are to understand the facts about the three artists targeted for prosecution on charges of ethnic incitement. It all reminds me of the great moment in Hollywood's Calender when Denzel Washington and Halle Berry won Oscars. On the surface, they stood tall as having achieved a first (after Sidney's much earlier recognition) for African American actors, but underneath the sense of achievement was the unsettling question as to why they got the awards for the specific movies in which their participation earned them such recognition viewed against other movies in which they excelled. Turns out the movies were reifying the stereotypes about African Americans in respect of sex and violence. Let us not turn critical issues touching on hate and ethnic bigotry by being fixated on trivial and one-dimensional certitudes on poetic license.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 5, 2012 20:36:21 GMT 3
Misplaced priorities indeed for some of my colleagues here. Let us destroy our nation, let us destroy our future in return for 'culture'. Whether one likes Kibunja or not what matters is the future of the nation. This is not the US we are talking about. This is a land of uneducated peasants who can not be trusted to think for themselves. Yes I am being serious. On this issue, the future of Kenya will demand harsh measures. If Fascism can act as the engine of progress then so be it. Defending of freedom of expression at all costs is the signature of people who did not feel the effects of violence. When faced with national suicide the nation must embrace the right measures. Absolutely. Art can wait until we achieve Vision 2030 3020. The last thing we need right now is warm-up exrecises for PEV II. Vision 2030. I am with you on 3020. This vision things are no easy walk in the park. But do you not think with the AMOS WAKO II and Mpigs antics on the KATIBA which qualify as legislative rigging, added to the actuall vote-tally rigging in 2013, we must prepare some heavy-duty hate songs to be soundtracks to the planned orgy? With Maori Haka chants and all!? ;D But on the other side... You very well know Kametusa, fired by visionary oil wealth, will be seeking a separate state. ;D MRC aka Mombasa republicans, do not seem to have much faith in that unity nation of yours and mine and its 3020 vision! (Dont tell me we should ban secessionist songs too!) I am for one Kenya, but a loose federation. The idea of some bureaucrat with no interest in Luo culture telling me, from far-off Nairobi, what I can listen to or not, from my local station broadcasting from Kapumbe beach, is basta.A bureaucracy that can not run hospitals, schoools, rail-networks at any honourable level, now wants to run the artistic kitchen of various ethnic groups? No, we are too proud of our cultures to let them be run aground by these vermin, to the level of mediocrity of other Kenyan national services of the GCG-NARA. --Look at what we call Parliament? basta.
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Post by b6k on Jul 6, 2012 3:11:25 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, so now the censorship debate has become a class struggle? ;D As we have seen many times on Jukwaa & elsewhere, the elite tend to hold very similar if not more ultra-conservative views. The one thing that enables them to transcend such blanket views is the "cleavages" OO once alluded to in one of his missives. Money, or the love of it, can occasionally get them to overlook the old prejudices & allow mixing of old "enemies". Where, pray tell, will the average mwananchi in the bundus have an opportunity to get beyond the usual stereotypes which are constantly reinforced in culture & music?[/ B6K, Where? Pray? Tell? I thought from his toilet office at the American embassy in Nairobi, the disgraced diplomat was financing a massive 'civic education' programme!? That we, the civil society, misappropriated the money and balled it away at Mugithi, Ramogi, Kametusa and other such nights, merrying to the songs with the hateful contents we were suppose to combat with the money, is another discussion please! SO:The argument about freedom of creativity and expression, and the relationship between art, its content and interpretation, has now run --though I can see a few Johny come latelies who have not gone through the 12 pages here, and are still marooned at page 1. Further, the lawyers are now on it, and we will keep abreast with their submissions in court as they tie up the legal details --(I safely let the legal details for them!) ;D So here, on mighty Jukwaa, we have to move on, take it to a new level. Give the subject --the persecution of artists because of elite defined sedition-- historical relevance and unearth the ideological hostility that it comes from. Not forgetting the wily use of the myth of national cohesion to underwrite a parochial repressive, anti-people agenda. The PEV is being mongered to blackmail the population into denouncing the daily articulations of their reality. Some prefer not to see reality for what it is. They prefer cobwebs in their minds. But some, like a soldier realist who must prepare to receive forged iron --the iron that taketh away life as it punctures the body and drains blood, will appreciate reality in all its ramifications. the good the bad and the ugly!I do not mind if KBC does not play these songs! KBC can play Mozart and Bach the whole day in operation civilize the musical tastes of the native! --Saving the native from monotonous drumming sounds and mumbo-jumbo chants going for lyrics! But let it be an open market. But most important. Do not arrest any local musician. PEV was about the injustice of the rigged election. And the next PEV will be about another rigged elections. Music is just a sound-track as the elite destroys the national cohesion, and the -much cherished?-nation.class struggele aspect:[/b]
Law can, and has always been used as a tool of cultural repression, as an aspect of cultural domination. So when one class, speaking Latin, describes basic anglo-saxon poetry as barbarian hate, there is more to that argument.
From the traditions of basic anglo-saxon verbal arts, would later on emerge Shakespeare, refining all the prior into a standard. But for his genius to crystallize, he needs the whole range of the old anglo-saxon canon. All the ingredients including the most vile!
Meanwhile centuries later, Latin is confined to a dungeon called the Vatican. A dead language. But how many anglo-saxon musicians did the Kibunjas of the Romans cruxify? --(Countless: until there was no more land in the british isles to burry them, so that their bodies were committed to rivers that feed the sea, where the fanged tribe of sharks love a free meal!)
So Yes, like Marx said: sometimes the [class] struggle may adopt imperceptible forms, friendly disguises, but it is always there, slave versus master, their antagonism fundamental, even if appearing otherwise!
Let a thousand flowers bloom! Send the mind-prefects to the guillotine! Jakaswanga, as far as I know it's not clear what the rogue ambassador was sending via his Gmail address from his porcelain throne. Suffice it to say, judging from the "good riddance" wishes coming from certain quarters, it wasn't something that would make Kenya's moment materialize anytime soon. The inference would be if it was anti-Kenya's moment, it was pro status quo, & therefore by extension, anti-mwananchi (if we are to believe popular myths on who stands for what in KE). In this particular instance, sadly I must admit I throw in my lot with the Johnny come latelies. Freedom of expression does have it's limits. Back in the day we generally agreed that although freedom of speech must be protected, shouting "Fire!" as a prank in a crowded movie hall would be an example of abusing that freedom. Lady Nyaboke is a prank whilst the UK songs are loaded messages: a call to arms as it were. This should not be allowed in post PEV Kenya. If PEV is our 9-11, I can live with that, just as most of the global population condoned the invasion of Afghanistan immediately after 9-11 before Bush overplayed his hand to extend hostilities to Iraq, & the powers that be extended that on to Libya, & Egypt, & Syria, &... If any musician must be arrested, in a fair world (given the Misiani saga) that would simply be justice in action. In KE today, it may simply be a window dressing exercise to give the semblance of fair play, when none is really on the table. As for law used as a tool of class repression, I once brought up in some thread on Jukwaa how select individuals in ANY society can enjoy privileges (look up the etymology of that word) at the expense of the many. Even in the Kenyan context I do NOT mean any one tribe. So agreed; let a thousand flowers bloom, so that they may be easily cut down.
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Post by job on Jul 6, 2012 7:31:16 GMT 3
Three Kikuyu musicians deny incitement charges
Thursday, 05 July 2012 00:02 BY SAM KIPLAGAT
THREE musicians yesterday denied charges of incitement to violence and hate speech. And as Mark Kamande Wa Kioi, John Muigai Nyaruru alias Muigai Wa Njoroge and John Mwangi alias John De Mathew denied the charges, their lawyers told the court that they will be making an application to the High Court for the trials to be stopped “because the charges does not disclose an offence”.
The first to appear in the dock facing two counts of incitement to violence and a count of hate speech was Nyaruru who has composed a song titled “Hague Bound”. The prosecution says that the musician composed the music on or before February this year and produced a DVD in Kikuyu language with the words “Yungimenya Hague iyo uratidikirioni tribal slur kimwe kiria kirenda ukanywe kamba, ugitigire mukaguo kigangarage gitige wona thina”. The prosecution says the words translates to “If you knew that Hague is being pushed to you by an uncircumcised man who wants you to be hanged so that you leave your wife for him to enjoy with; while he sees you in trouble.”
On the second count, Nyaruru is alleged that in the same DVD, he has used the words, “Haha ndoiga kaba gukwa kana kuhona tundu wa muruu dwathagu ni tribal slur dugutukanie nakio ndikigie mumero kaba thitango yakwa iyogerere”. The prosecution says the words allegedly translate to “Here I say, it is better to die or to live because things of the circumcised person are not governed by uncircumcised person. I struggle with him to his neck. It is better my charges to be added.”
He further denied a charge of hate speech through song the same song because of using the words; when you are in the dock at The Hague what would you be thinking of the uncircumcised man who is the source of your predicament? I would ask God to forgive him, I would ask him to be circumcised because God said circumcision was necessary. I will tell the people of Kenya to be very keen not to be pushed into a hole by people like him. I ask my mother to pray for me, if not for her, I could be mad, and because she led me in prayers, that’s why I can’t ask if I will be mad. According to the prosecution, the words in the songs are meant to cause hatred, hostility and discrimination between the Kikuyu and Luo communities.
Similarly, De Mathew faced three charges through his song titled Uhuru ni Witu, the contents in the song include, Ibrahimu agia Jehova erirui athia akagirimo nawe general Migingo ruhio no rurari thio ( When Abraham disobeyed God, he was ordered to be circumcised, you General of Migingo, the panga is being sharpened).
Wa Kioi also denied three similar charges, which the prosecution says are meant to stir animosity and hatred between Kikuyu and Luo Communities. Represented by a team of five lawyers, the accused persons said that they will be making an application during the trial for the case to be stopped until the trial at The Hague is concluded because “we shall be demonstrating that you cannot distinguish in fact and law the process at The Hague and this process”. “The criminal charges constitute a gross abuse of the court process because it represents one side of the political debate,” said Gichuki Kingara.
Another lawyer Kibe Mungai said that they will be seeking an interpretation of the artistic words as the prosecution was misrepresenting the words in the songs. “On the outset, it is the commission (National Cohesion and Integration Commission) that is seeking perpetrate hatred through its interpretation of songs,” added Mungai. He said that it was wrong to charge people who were expressing their artistic creativity by giving the words a criminal interpretation.
Another lawyer Mbiyu Kamau posed, “how does a Biblical quotation of the trial of Jesus some 2000 years ago, constitute an offence? We shall be challenging the constitutionality of these charges.” The prosecutor Bridget Kanyai told the magistrate Elijah Obaga that they will not be opposing their release of bail.
Obaga asked the prosecution to supply the lawyers with statements from witnesses set to testify, to avail in court the accused persons OB numbers from Kilimani police station, and copies of the original DVDs made by the three musicians. The magistrate also directed the prosecution and the lawyers to view the DVDs together and make a certified copy of the DVD that would be used during the trial. The three musicians were released on cash bail of Sh100,000 each. The cases will be heard on August 6, 9 and 10.
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