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Post by Titchaz on Jan 26, 2013 13:17:20 GMT 3
Raila rejects Kibaki police appointments Inspector General of Police David Kimaiyo (facing camera) confers with Ndegwa Muhoro (right) and Samuel Arachi (second right) after a meeting with senior police officers at the CID pavilion in Nairobi December 31, 2012. Prime Minister Raila Odinga has rejected the appointment of Grace Kaindi and Mr Arcahi as deputy IGs and Mr Muhoro as CID director January 26, 2013. FILE By NATION Reporter Posted Saturday, January 26 2013 at 11:54 Prime Minister Raila Odinga has rejected the appointments of Inspector General of Police deputies and the Criminal Investigations Department director. In a statement, Mr Odinga said President Kibaki's appointments of Deputy Inspector General of Police Grace Kaindi, Samuel Arachi to head the Administration Police and Ndegwa Muhoro as CID boss were "unconstitutional as agreement had not been reached with the President about the appointees". "I had raised my serious objections to the three names that were presented to me in the consultations that were underway,” the PM said Saturday. Mr Odinga said he had expressed his reservations on the integrity of the three officers and the appointments cannot stand since the issue remains unresolved. "I had expressed reservations on their integrity, which needs to be unquestioned given the powerful role of the police in every aspect of the nation’s life, including of course the upcoming elections," he said. "The Independent Police Oversight Authority (IPOA) chairman Macharia Njeru had also issued a scathing report highlighting serious allegations touching on the integrity of CID head Ndegwa Muhoro." Mr Odinga said IPOA had written to the principals indicating that Mr Muhoro should not be considered for any police job. www.nation.co.ke/News/Raila-rejects-Kibaki-police-appointments/-/1056/1675768/-/ovcm6m/-/index.html
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 26, 2013 19:27:39 GMT 3
Heheheheeee! Raila is no longer the PM of Kenya but he still masquerades as one. The life of the tenth parliament through which Raila became PM is already over, so where does he draw his mandate to even attempt to do such a thing?
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Post by abdulmote on Jan 26, 2013 20:00:00 GMT 3
Heheheheeee! Raila is no longer the PM of Kenya but he still masquerades as one. The life of the tenth parliament through which Raila became PM is already over, so where does he draw his mandate to even attempt to do such a thing? Has the Cabinet and the Government of the Grand Coalition been dissolved as well? I must have missed that if it has, or at least that is what mwalimu is implying here! |
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Post by mangai on Jan 26, 2013 20:41:35 GMT 3
Heheheheeee! Raila is no longer the PM of Kenya but he still masquerades as one. The life of the tenth parliament through which Raila became PM is already over, so where does he draw his mandate to even attempt to do such a thing? Has the Cabinet and the Government of the Grand Coalition been dissolved as well? I must have missed that if it has, or at least that is what mwalimu is implying here! Mwalimumkuu must have borrowed from Mudavadi's UDF position which in fact confirms whose project they are. Very unfortunate! www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000075922&story_title=Kenya-Raila-has-no-mandate-on-Kibaki's-appointees Raila has no mandate on Kibaki's appointeesBy Standard Digital Reporter KENYA: Amani Coalition has dismissed Prime Minister Raila’s stand on appointments of deputies of Inspector General of Police and CID director. The coalition led by Musalia Mudavadi who is also the coalition’s presidential candidate said Raila’s mandate ended when the Tenth Parliament term expired. Raila had rejected President Kibaki’s appointments of police boss deputies: Grace Kaindi as Deputy Inspector General of Police, Samuel Arachi for Administration Police and CID director Ndegwa Muhoro over pending integrity issues. He had said the appointments were unconstitutional as he had not reached an agreement with the president. END For those in denial, check what the Transitional Clauses of our constitution say: - (2) Sections 30 to 40, 43 to 46 and 48 to 58 of the formerConstitution, the provisions of the former Constitution concerning
the executive, and the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, shall
continue to operate until the first general elections held under this
Constitution, but the provisions of this Constitution concerning the
system of elections, eligibility for election and the electoral process
shall apply to that election.
and further, 12. (1) The persons occupying the offices of President and Prime
Minister immediately before the effective date shall continue to serve
as President and Prime Minister respectively, in accordance with the
former Constitution and the National Accord and Reconciliation Act,
2008 until the first general elections held under this Constitution, unless
they vacate office in terms of the former Constitution and the Accord.Be informed accordingly. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 26, 2013 20:50:29 GMT 3
Let us not distort the truth.
Raila is the Prime Minister until the time the first general elections held under the new Constitution - according to the provision of the Constitution provided by Mangai, above.
And, as such, he can legally question the appointments, and thus declaring them null and void if no consultation took place.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 26, 2013 21:52:10 GMT 3
Mangai,
I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not.
Abdulmote,
There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason.
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Post by nowayhaha on Jan 26, 2013 22:25:40 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. One of the reason I usually concur with you , sober analysis with facts far from wishful thinking , article 6 of NARA clearly stipulates that the coalition shall stand dissolved if the 10th parliament is dissolved thus ideally we dont have a coalition government made up of PNU and ODM parties but a caretaker government made up of cabinet ministers to ensure smooth running of the country until after elections . ODM are once again blundering if they try to politicize the police appointments this will play against them watch this space. www.kenyalawreports.or.ke/klr/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/Bills/2008/The_National_Accord_and_Reconciliation_Bill_2008.pdf |
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Post by mangai on Jan 26, 2013 22:43:25 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. One of the reason I usually concur with you , sober analysis with facts far from wishful thinking , article 6 of NARA clearly stipulates that the coalition shall stand dissolved if the 10th parliament is dissolved thus ideally we dont have a coalition government made up of PNU and ODM parties but a caretaker government made up of cabinet ministers to ensure smooth running of the country until after elections . ODM are once again blundering if they try to politicize the police appointments this will play against them watch this space. www.kenyalawreports.or.ke/klr/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/Bills/2008/The_National_Accord_and_Reconciliation_Bill_2008.pdfSimple question Nowayhaha. Why is Kibaki still the president when his term as member of parliament for Othaya has also ended? For your information under the old constitution, for one to be president, he also had to be a member of parliament. The clauses I quoted from the constitution are meant to PRESERVE the current executive arm of government until another executive takes over after the next general election. The logic is no country cannot operate in a vacuum that is why we still have Ministers still in office even after their term as mps is long expired. Raila Amolo Odinga is part and parcel of that executive arm of government. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 26, 2013 23:13:45 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. You are something else! The PM you are referring to is that of the United Kingdom who also happens to be the leader of gov't, and with whom the power to call election lies. Kenya has never had that PM. Raila was a creation of NARA - which was itself absorbed in the Constitutional compensation mentioned by Mangai. NARA on its own does not exist. Consequently, Raila was never a formal leader of gov't, he shared that with Kibaki. Thus, he only was allowed to appoint his own share of the cabinet and to supervise his share but, importantly, he was to be consulted when senior appointments are to be made. So, it is only when the elections are held when Raila relinquishes his post and power to be consulted. As for the cabinet, it was also a creation of the Constitution. How many or which ministry to establish was left to the Presidency and the Prime Minister, who both appointed their share which was half of the cabinet. The cabinet will cease to function the moment another gov't, which is led by another president is in office. The talk of caretaker gov't is seditionly dangerous. It is tantamount to a coup. There can't be a caretaker gov't when the Constitution provides for a functioning executive gov't under the President and Prime Minister. The dissolution of parliament only dissolves MPs, not the Executive. |
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bob
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Post by bob on Jan 27, 2013 2:48:10 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. You lack focus in just about everything you try to articulate , this thing is not about RAO, it is about integrity issues of some individuals.The same thing that happened just before the 2007 with regard to the appointment of Electoral commissioners which set the stage for the chaos thereafter . There was consensus with regard to Kimaiyo,but as for his deputies there is genuine concern. Kimaiyo cannot of course work alone & will need clean, able team hence if is not given that vital support ,we may as well expect the unexpected ,polarised police force which is very dangerous at this particular time in our country. I sometimes wonder why Kibaki chooses to spoil the party,the minute the country looses confidence in the police, all the reforms which have taken place so far will count for nothing. So Mwalimu you can choose to continue to hate RAO for all I care but the truth is that a bad move may lead to another & when Kenya starts burning we will surely burn together,unless you are living in comfort zone out of the country. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 27, 2013 3:29:52 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. You lack focus in just about everything you try to articulate , this thing is not about RAO, it is about integrity issues of some individuals.The same thing that happened just before the 2007 with regard to the appointment of Electoral commissioners which set the stage for the chaos thereafter . There was consensus with regard to Kimaiyo,but as for his deputies there is genuine concern. Kimaiyo cannot of course work alone & will need clean, able team hence if is not given that vital support ,we may as well expect the unexpected ,polarised police force which is very dangerous at this particular time in our country. I sometimes wonder why Kibaki chooses to spoil the party,the minute the country looses confidence in the police, all the reforms which have taken place so far will count for nothing. So Mwalimu you can choose to continue to hate RAO for all I care but the truth is that a bad move may lead to another & when Kenya starts burning we will surely burn together,unless you are living in comfort zone out of the country. I will start with you because yours is very easy. It is a case of a highly charged emotional out burst without any regard to the issue under consideration. Otherwise if you were focused you would have realized that no one, in all the posts I have so far read in this thread is discussing the nominees and RAO the man. It is my understanding, however, that we are addressing ourselves to the process of nomination viz. RAO's position as the 'PM'. So refocus again and make your contribution. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 27, 2013 4:20:34 GMT 3
Mangai,I am surprised that someone else as high as Mudavadi is seeing it the exact same way as I am. As per the old constitution, part of which you quote up there, the PM ought to be the leader of a party or coalition with majority in parliament. Since the life of parliament is ended, technically, the position of the PM is non existent too regardless of whether elections have been held or not. Abdulmote,There were two groups of members of the cabinet; those appointed by the president and those by virtue of their positions. The former is still in office, but the latter (the PM and his deputies) are technically out of the cabinet due to the natural death of parliament. But this being Kenya, Raila will continue swindling Kenyans by way of drawing a salary and causing confusion in government for no any good reason. You are something else! The PM you are referring to is that of the United Kingdom who also happens to be the leader of gov't, and with whom the power to call election lies. Kenya has never had that PM. Raila was a creation of NARA - which was itself absorbed in the Constitutional compensation mentioned by Mangai. NARA on its own does not exist. Consequently, Raila was never a formal leader of gov't, he shared that with Kibaki. Thus, he only was allowed to appoint his own share of the cabinet and to supervise his share but, importantly, he was to be consulted when senior appointments are to be made. So, it is only when the elections are held when Raila relinquishes his post and power to be consulted. As for the cabinet, it was also a creation of the Constitution. How many or which ministry to establish was left to the Presidency and the Prime Minister, who both appointed their share which was half of the cabinet. The cabinet will cease to function the moment another gov't, which is led by another president is in office. The talk of caretaker gov't is seditionly dangerous. It is tantamount to a coup. There can't be a caretaker gov't when the Constitution provides for a functioning executive gov't under the President and Prime Minister. The dissolution of parliament only dissolves MPs, not the Executive. You see Bw. Wakili, one thing for sure, I have no any idea how the British government works and how their PM is elected or appointed. But this is what I know about our case: 1. That, the only clause that seems to keep RAO in office as per the new constitution is this one here as rightly quoted by Mangai above and one that you make reference to: 12. (1) The persons occupying the offices of President and PrimeMinister immediately before the effective date shall continue to serve as President and Prime Minister respectively, in accordance with the former Constitution and the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, 2008 until the first general elections held under this Constitution, unless they vacate office in terms of the former Constitution and the Accord.
2. Now, if this be true, pay attention to the underlined part above, then consider the following sections of the Accord and the old constitution: (4) The office of the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister shall become vacant only if-
a. The holder of the office dies, resigns or ceases to be a member of the national assembly otherwise than by reason of the dissolution of parliament
c. The coalition is dissolved
And here is how the coalition is dissolved:
6. The coalition shall stand dissolved if:
a. The tenth parliament is dissolved.
And remember, the old constitution clearly stated that, where there is any ambiguity or inconsistency, the NARA takes over. It is therefore very clear to me, as per NARA, that the PM's office ceased to exist the moment Marende and his gang of robbers lost their jobs. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 27, 2013 4:55:49 GMT 3
By the way, I just saw this ongoing discussion at nipate on the same subject. Although from a totally approach, the conclusion is the same, that, Raila has NO locus standi to question these appointments as PM, may be as raia kama mimi na wengine, because that is what he is as of now, raia. nipate.com/raila-goofed-big-time-on-police-appointments-t21433.html |
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Post by kamalet on Jan 27, 2013 7:28:22 GMT 3
Mmkuu
Whilst you have properly explained the law, we might also want to look at what is making Raila whine.
In order to make the process of public appointments transparent, the constitution created institutions to ensure this. The NPSC in its wisdom recruited and recommended to the president for appointment the said officers. As part of the process they also scored the candidates on their performance to enable the president make the right choices. The president looked at gender and regional balance in making the appointments of the people recommended by the NPSC. If the commission is to have its appointments rejected then what happens to its independent oversight as enshrined in the constitution?
I would have been backing the PM if Kibaki had appointed someone not recommended by the commission. Unfortunately, all that the PM wants is to make political capital of how the government never gave him powers to exercise his office which is a real shame.
But he does have an opportunity. he can go to court to stop the appointments on account of no consensus but certainly not on no consultation.
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Post by kamalet on Jan 27, 2013 7:50:20 GMT 3
Let us not distort the truth. Raila is the Prime Minister until the time the first general elections held under the new Constitution - according to the provision of the Constitution provided by Mangai, above. And, as such, he can legally question the appointments, and thus declaring them null and void if no consultation took place. Sadik Does this clarify it for you any better? The CONSTITUTION OF KENYA 2010
Article 262. SIXTH SCHEDULE: TRANSITIONAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL PROVISIONS
Part 5 – Administration of Justice
29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution, the President shall, subject to the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, appoint a person after consultation with the Prime Minister and with the approval of the National Assembly. |
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Post by mangai on Jan 27, 2013 10:41:27 GMT 3
Let us not distort the truth. Raila is the Prime Minister until the time the first general elections held under the new Constitution - according to the provision of the Constitution provided by Mangai, above. And, as such, he can legally question the appointments, and thus declaring them null and void if no consultation took place. Sadik Does this clarify it for you any better? The CONSTITUTION OF KENYA 2010
Article 262. SIXTH SCHEDULE: TRANSITIONAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL PROVISIONS
Part 5 – Administration of Justice
29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution, the President shall, subject to the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, appoint a person after consultation with the Prime Minister and with the approval of the National Assembly., Isn't this reinforcing/confirming Sadik's position? |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 27, 2013 10:44:17 GMT 3
Sadik,You see Bw. Wakili, one thing for sure, I have no any idea how the British government works and how their PM is elected or appointed. But this is what I know about our case: 1. That, the only clause that seems to keep RAO in office as per the new constitution is this one here as rightly quoted by Mangai above and one that you make reference to: 12. (1) The persons occupying the offices of President and PrimeMinister immediately before the effective date shall continue to serve as President and Prime Minister respectively, in accordance with the former Constitution and the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, 2008 until the first general elections held under this Constitution, unless they vacate office in terms of the former Constitution and the Accord.
2. Now, if this be true, pay attention to the underlined part above, then consider the following sections of the Accord and the old constitution: (4) The office of the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister shall become vacant only if-
a. The holder of the office dies, resigns or ceases to be a member of the national assembly otherwise than by reason of the dissolution of parliament
c. The coalition is dissolved
And here is how the coalition is dissolved:
6. The coalition shall stand dissolved if:
a. The tenth parliament is dissolved.
And remember, the old constitution clearly stated that, where there is any ambiguity or inconsistency, the NARA takes over. It is therefore very clear to me, as per NARA, that the PM's office ceased to exist the moment Marende and his gang of robbers lost their jobs. Your arguments are not convincing. Here is why, 1. The first point to note, the Constitutional provision reads, "until the first general elections held'. In interpretation this is termed 'conditional requirement'. What that means is that because elections have not been held yet, the functionality of the provision does not kick in. The President and Prime Minister will be so until elections are held. 2. Having said, that the conditional requirement of election must be held for the Prime Minister to vacate his office has an exception. If that exception is fulfilled then the conditional requirement falls apart. That exception is "unless they vacate office in terms of the former Constitution and the Accord". 3. So, what that means is that the Prime Minister vacates his office when elections are held, unless he vacates earlier before an election is held in terms of the old Constitution and NARA. What that means is that the Prime Minister can vacate the office, his doing so must then be guided by the old constitution and NARA. 4. Let me turn to what are the guide in the old Constitution and NARA for the Prime Minister to vacate his office. I will use your own citation due to time constraint. You wrote, (4) The office of the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister shall become vacant only if-
a. The holder of the office dies, resigns or ceases to be a member of the national assemble, otherwise than by reason of the dissolution of parliament
b. The coalition is dissolved
5. It is clear three situations automatically lead to the Prime Minister leaving office. The situations are death, resignation and cessation of being an MP. These will lead to the Prime Minister vacating the office. 6. As for the last section, "otherwise than by reason of the dissolution of parliament", that in my view is an explanatory clause of the first part, as it is not a 'situation' which can stand on its own. That clause only explains the earlier part. The terms you need to pay attention to are 'otherwise than by reason of'. What does that mean? It does not mean that the dissolution of parliament will mean vacation of office. The contrary here stands, it actually means the dissolution of parliament is not a reason to vacate the office, otherwise than is an exception. That the Prime Minister will leave office by death, resignation or cessation of being an MP but not for the dissolution of Parliament. 7. If that is the case, and I don’t see how else, the Prime Minister, as an executive is never removed from the office by the dissolution of Parliament, as you allege. KamaletAs Mangai has mentioned, the provision you cite only supports my point, especially, here, until after the first elections under this Constitution, the President shall, subject to the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, appoint a person after consultation with the Prime Minister[/b/b] |
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Post by furaha on Jan 27, 2013 12:39:12 GMT 3
I think the question about Raila's mandate is only one issue and not necessarily the most important one. I believe the view that he has a mandate has already been argued successfully. But the more important issue is that these appointments help to connect the dots in relation to the 'Ngoroko' story posted on DC by Job in early January. It pays to re-read this story once a week and to re-assess it against new developments. And these senior police appointments help to confirm that story. The Ngoroko story leads right up to the gates of State House and that is where these appointments were made. deepcogitation.com/2013/01/10/the-resurgence-of-the-ngoroko-state-in-kenya/#commentsFuraha |
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Post by Titchaz on Jan 27, 2013 12:57:25 GMT 3
I think the question about Raila's mandate is only one issue and not necessarily the most important one. I believe the view that he has a mandate has already been argued successfully. But the more important issue is that these appointments help to connect the dots in relation to the 'Ngoroko' story posted on DC by Job in early January. It pays to re-read this story once a week and to re-assess it against new developments. And these senior police appointments help to confirm that story. The Ngoroko story leads right up to the gates of State House and that is where these appointments were made. deepcogitation.com/2013/01/10/the-resurgence-of-the-ngoroko-state-in-kenya/#commentsFuraha Kwa mtazamo wangu, this is also the key issue that Kenyans should be addressing. Hii mambo ya mandate is just a red herring. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 27, 2013 14:58:46 GMT 3
[ Kamalet, Isn't this reinforcing/confirming Sadik's position? From what I have followed here, I think Sadik has made a very successful argument. If the law were to suggest that the relationship between the two co-principals defined as equal, would cease at one point, leaving one of them in effect in total control of the state as president, that indeed is characterisable as a coup! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 27, 2013 15:35:02 GMT 3
I think the question about Raila's mandate is only one issue and not necessarily the most important one.[/ I believe the view that he has a mandate has already been argued successfully. Furaha Those who had bothered to know, would have been aware of two key things during the early Kibaki regime, and read their implications. 1. The commander-s- of the kwe-kwe squad, the official police death squad, never reported to General Hussein Ali as his superior. Even in formal meetings, he was always Hussein's boss. [Like Ben Gethi was always Bernard Hinga's boss, yet formally far his junior] 2 Another man, Mwangi, he is usually called, is the man who maintained special command over special forces in the Army. The army commander and chief of staff --Kiang'a or whatever their names were, were figure-heads. This is called the parallel state-structure. This phenomenon was much documented in military intelligence journals sometime back. For instance, Major Kagame was vice president and assistant minister for defense. That was what the news said. Well, Kagame was the supreme leader of everything, and president Biizmungu or whatever his name was, was a mere toy. And so there are many toys with very prominent titles in public in Africa. The parallel state in Africa ran by security mandarins! Some Kenyans thought we are different? It is when a succession is in the air, and bets are hedged, the working equilibrium disturbed that the ripples shake the surface! You mismanage a succession, you get turbulence below, and here and there some must quietly die to recover the balance. this is how I understand Furaha's ominously stated Raila's mandate is not THE ONLY issue here, may not even be the most important now!if you know how African governments work behind the scenes, that is the most understatement of the year!  |
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Post by furaha on Jan 27, 2013 16:13:30 GMT 3
I think the question about Raila's mandate is only one issue and not necessarily the most important one.[/ I believe the view that he has a mandate has already been argued successfully. Furaha Those who had bothered to know, would have been aware of two key things during the early Kibaki regime, and read their implications. 1. The commander-s- of the kwe-kwe squad, the official police death squad, never reported to General Hussein Ali as his superior. Even in formal meetings, he was always Hussein's boss. [Like Ben Gethi was always Bernard Hinga's boss, yet formally far his junior] 2 Another man, Mwangi, he is usually called, is the man who maintained special command over special forces in the Army. The army commander and chief of staff --Kiang'a or whatever their names were, were figure-heads. This is called the parallel state-structure. This phenomenon was much documented in military intelligence journals sometime back. For instance, Major Kagame was vice president and assistant minister for defense. That was what the news said. Well, Kagame was the supreme leader of everything, and president Biizmungu or whatever his name was, was a mere toy. And so there are many toys with very prominent titles in public in Africa. The parallel state in Africa ran by security mandarins! Some Kenyans thought we are different? It is when a succession is in the air, and bets are hedged, the working equilibrium disturbed that the ripples shake the surface! You mismanage a succession, you get turbulence below, and here and there some must quietly die to recover the balance.
this is how I understand Furaha's ominously stated Raila's mandate is not THE ONLY issue here, may not even be the most important now!if you know how African governments work behind the scenes, that is the most understatement of the year! Thanks Jakaswanga, you understood me correctly. And let me reinforce that Julius Ndegwa, as head of the KweKwe squad never reported via Hussein Ali, but directly to State House. And there's quite some information doing the rounds about that. |
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Post by kamalet on Jan 27, 2013 16:46:43 GMT 3
Sadik Does this clarify it for you any better? The CONSTITUTION OF KENYA 2010
Article 262. SIXTH SCHEDULE: TRANSITIONAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL PROVISIONS
Part 5 – Administration of Justice
29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution, the President shall, subject to the National Accord and Reconciliation Act, appoint a person after consultation with the Prime Minister and with the approval of the National Assembly., Isn't this reinforcing/confirming Sadik's position? Mangai, Actually not! The bit all you guys are missing is the wording "...29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution....". The key words are where the approval of the National Assembly is required. The three appointments by the president did not require approval by the National Assembly so the consultation is not required if we are all reading the same constitution. Now you then need to go to the National Police Service Act and see what positions are preserved for National Assembly approval after appointment by the president......which is then the time the PM opens his mouth. |
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Post by einstein on Jan 27, 2013 21:44:12 GMT 3
Kamalet, Isn't this reinforcing/confirming Sadik's position? Mangai, Actually not! The bit all you guys are missing is the wording "...29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution....". The key words are where the approval of the National Assembly is required. The three appointments by the president did not require approval by the National Assembly so the consultation is not required if we are all reading the same constitution.Now you then need to go to the National Police Service Act and see what positions are preserved for National Assembly approval after appointment by the president......which is then the time the PM opens his mouth. ......... In his statement, the PM said the National Accord explicitly indicated that senior appointments must reflect agreement by both sides of the coalition and the appointments needed to be gazetted within five days of parliamentary approval.“This was not done,” he said, adding that such appointments would undermine the confidence of Kenyans in the police. ........ www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Raila-rejects-Kibaki-police-appointments/-/1064/1675768/-/wq839iz/-/index.html |
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Post by kamalet on Jan 28, 2013 7:00:43 GMT 3
Mangai, Actually not! The bit all you guys are missing is the wording "...29(2). Unless this Schedule prescribes otherwise, when this Constitution requires an appointment to be made by the President with the approval of the National Assembly, until after the first elections under this Constitution....". The key words are where the approval of the National Assembly is required. The three appointments by the president did not require approval by the National Assembly so the consultation is not required if we are all reading the same constitution.Now you then need to go to the National Police Service Act and see what positions are preserved for National Assembly approval after appointment by the president......which is then the time the PM opens his mouth. ......... In his statement, the PM said the National Accord explicitly indicated that senior appointments must reflect agreement by both sides of the coalition and the appointments needed to be gazetted within five days of parliamentary approval.“This was not done,” he said, adding that such appointments would undermine the confidence of Kenyans in the police. ........ www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Raila-rejects-Kibaki-police-appointments/-/1064/1675768/-/wq839iz/-/index.htmlEinstein, You are being lazy here. Can you check the Police Service Act and tell us which appointive posts require parliamentary approval? It is only the IG post that requires this approval hence can only be the one that meets the consultation requirement. The problem with Raila is hat he has already been busted for the reason he is making noise as he wanted some tribesmate appointed DIG for APs by Kimemia. But the man and his advisors are daft for not reading the law well enough as well as know when to shout. If the aim was to show how he was being short circuited to justify his failure as PM, then this was a very lame thing to try and do! Coming from the family nomination fiasco, his attempt at getting a Luo appointed contrary to the law will only increase the arguments about him and cronyism. |
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