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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 13:03:08 GMT 3
Raila/Kalonzo press conference alleges that IEBC announcing results where votes exceed the number of registered voters (strange media has not picked this up) and also that the forms are not signed by Cord agents. Of even greater importance is the case of the "now missing rejected votes" and tghey wondered where they are! Finally their agents have been barred from the tallying centre! They call on the process of tallying to be stopped and that they will go to court to have it stopped. Luckily, they have said that it is not a call to mass action and that they will follow the legal route. Of course the biggest credit MUST go to the Kenyan media who have declined to cover the event live on national TV. You are painfully partisan. What in that conference do you think Kenyans should not know. How come the press covered Jubilee press conferences live live? Is there no fairness in Kenya? I have no recollection of a Live press conference by Jubilee and if we are talking about the Ngilu one, then I think it was a worthwhile lesson to learn not to allow the politcians in front of a camera! What she said was so unnecessary as she could not provide proof and really can be handled better! So yes, shut out the politicians and censor what they have to say to keep Kenya peaceful! |
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Post by gemagema on Mar 7, 2013 13:05:44 GMT 3
Have you forgotten the Ruto Pressers...when he was jubeelating so early on the first day of vote count
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Post by cheshirecat on Mar 7, 2013 13:06:15 GMT 3
Amazing how the Jubilants here are attacking RR....yet they have zero clue of even how the CORD evidence in Court will look like No one is celebrating anything. We dont want a fraudulent election either. But neither do we want election disputes sorted out at Serena hotel. if raila was in court presenting his evidence, you would not hear a mummer from us, btw, when IEBC approached cord to give evidence on their allegations that Kimemia et al were rigging, cord went silent and never responded. They never had any evidence! That might explain why even this time, they start the process in Serena and not the law courts |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 7, 2013 13:06:22 GMT 3
Folks, go easy on RR. The fact is anyone who has access to data that the parties have collated from the various counties will know that this election has already been won (or lost depending on which side you support). IEBC is taking its sweet time to unleash the inevitable lest people end up in hospital wards from the shock. Let RR vent. Better online than on the streets ;D ;D ;D ;D B6k, CORD/ODM had their presidential tallies and so did Jubilee , Once Orengo , Bett and Nyongo came out gun blazing against IEBC with claims of election irregularities during the first day of provisional results it was clear what could have been the reason - defeat was knocking on the door and from the numbers they were getting from their agents in polling station results were showing that they were losing the presidential elections. They were left with clutching at straws and hoping manna would drop from heaven and the elections some how would proceed to a runoff . First were the miscellaneous SMS's and mails from the so called Raila friendly groups aka FORA etc that from their tallies they were confident of winning and the elections and that the elections would proceed to a runoff , second came in the "rejected votes excuse" and how they would force a runnoff on the strength of the rejected votes. Thirdly having gotten a straw in the name of rejected votes came out a" confident "Kalonzo with false bravado of how they are sure of winning this elections -This was to instill confidence to CORD/ODM supporters most of whom were already throwing in the towels. The other tactics was use of propaganda that the electronic systems had been hacked by their opponents , allegations which were unfounded. The IEBC chairman who had been a villain for the last 2 days became a hero overnight to CORD/ODMs supporters when he made the decision to go manual way and all was going on well till the moment the results started reflecting the same trend as in the provisional results with almost a similar Uhuru's lead margin then all over a sudden IEBC Chairman became a villain once again. To add salt to injury the rejected votes in the actual results were becoming less and less to an extent where they were becoming ineligible and to an extend could not influence the election outcome.This is the reason which has made them accept the only route they have to force another election is through the Supreme Court and with Makau Mutua hinting in his last article that Mutunga is their only savior they have decided to take that route. Seems fate is not on their side any strategy they have used or tied to has either failed or didn't work . |
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Post by b6k on Mar 7, 2013 13:30:05 GMT 3
Folks, go easy on RR. The fact is anyone who has access to data that the parties have collated from the various counties will know that this election has already been won (or lost depending on which side you support). IEBC is taking its sweet time to unleash the inevitable lest people end up in hospital wards from the shock. Let RR vent. Better online than on the streets ;D ;D ;D ;D B6k, CORD/ODM had their presidential tallies and so did Jubilee , Once Orengo , Bett and Nyongo came out gun blazing against IEBC with claims of election irregularities during the first day of provisional results it was clear what could have been the reason - defeat was knocking on the door and from the numbers they were getting from their agents in polling station results were showing that they were losing the presidential elections. They were left with clutching at straws and hoping manna would drop from heaven and the elections some how would proceed to a runoff . First were the miscellaneous SMS's and mails from the so called Raila friendly groups aka FORA etc that from their tallies they were confident of winning and the elections and that the elections would proceed to a runoff , second came in the "rejected votes excuse" and how they would force a runnoff on the strength of the rejected votes. Thirdly having gotten a straw in the name of rejected votes came out a" confident "Kalonzo with false bravado of how they are sure of winning this elections -This was to instill confidence to CORD/ODM supporters most of whom were already throwing in the towels. The other tactics was use of propaganda that the electronic systems had been hacked by their opponents , allegations which were unfounded. The IEBC chairman who had been a villain for the last 2 days became a hero overnight to CORD/ODMs supporters when he made the decision to go manual way and all was going on well till the moment the results started reflecting the same trend as in the provisional results with almost a similar Uhuru's lead margin then all over a sudden IEBC Chairman became a villain once again. To add salt to injury the rejected votes in the actual results were becoming less and less to an extent where they were becoming ineligible and to an extend could not influence the election outcome.This is the reason which has made them accept the only route they have to force another election is through the Supreme Court and with Makau Mutua hinting in his last article that Mutunga is their only savior they have decided to take that route. Seems fate is not on their side any strategy they have used or tied to has either failed or didn't work . , I have a hunch that there is more to RR's story about rejected votes but he isn't being totally honest about it. If we are to believe that the electronic system was hacked into, then it is possible that CORD hackers were pushing up the numbers of rejected votes in order to clamour for a runoff later. The whole RR story about his sister & other relatives deliberately spoiling their votes sounds like fiction to me. They would've voted for their man genuinely, but once it became clear he was losing they would've hacked the system to push up the rejected votes in hope of declaring the need for a rerun. We are virtually the same level we were with the electronic vote (UK 2.4m to Raila's 1.9m) & yet the rejected votes have plummeted to just above 30k once the actual Form 36's signed off on by ALL agents has been used. Very interesting...... |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 13:48:48 GMT 3
B6k
Have look at what I said yesterday regarding ODMs quest to have the rejected votes be included in final count for % vote and why Jubilee was whining that it is a way of stealing it!
Now if you bring in the hacking propaganda (and RR's inadvertent admission of stucking up spoilt votes!) then you can pick a trend!
I hope Cord can have a bit more faith in our institution as well as the checks it builds. If you do not trust IEBC, please use the courts!!
In the meantime to quote @crazynairobian, if the politicos did not hear us complain when we stood in line patiently to vote for them, why can they not do so without complaining as they wait for the count?
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bob
Full Member
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Post by bob on Mar 7, 2013 13:51:46 GMT 3
We don't need rocket science to explain that this presidential results lack integrity at all whether RAO or UK comes out the victor. This start stop business of tallying ,failure of the electronic system is already a pointer & no matter how much Hassan hides under the seven day by law rule it won't change a thing. For the sake of peace Kenyans will move on but it is all bullshit. This is just another sugarcoated Kivuitu style dossier that leaves a very bad taste in the mouth of Kenyans. Bure kabisa.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 13:52:31 GMT 3
Kalonzo is quoted saying that the law requires that results be transmitted first electronically before the tallying sheets are sent to HQ.
Anyone know which law that is?
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 7, 2013 13:58:13 GMT 3
Kalonzo is quoted saying that the law requires that results be transmitted first electronically before the tallying sheets are sent to HQ. Anyone know which law that is? Kamale , This is what the Nation's political analyst Benji Ndolo posted yesterday in his fb page. "Miscelleneous Amendment to the Elections Act 2012..."Returning officers shall transmit all voting results electronically to the National Tallying Centre" I fear we could easily fool around and drift into a constitutional crisis. For all those name-calling and questioning my patriotism, you would do better to expend your energy trying to find truth and answers for this country. For me it always has been and always will be Kenya first." |
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Post by federa on Mar 7, 2013 14:40:50 GMT 3
I took the liberty to check the presidential results for Runyenjes constituency, just picking at random one of the constituencies where the Vice-President has alleged the votes cast exceed the total number of registered voters, and this is what the eight presidential candidates garnered: Kiyiapi 176; Karua 330; Dida 89; Mudavadi 135; Muite 61; Kenneth 294; Raila 1,812; Uhuru 54,898. Now if you total the votes for all the candidates it comes to 57,795. This is against a registered voter population of 66,000. Therefore it appears there is no substance to what the vice-president is claiming on this particular issue. It really irritates for someone to make a claim that does not check out even at the most cursory inspection.
However, the issue of the rejected votes which stood at 330,000+ with less than half the votes tallied, but which have now mysteriously disappeared needs an explanation. I hope Isaack Hassan addresses the issue the next time he holds a press briefing.
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Post by Horth on Mar 7, 2013 15:12:38 GMT 3
I took the liberty to check the presidential results for Runyenjes constituency, just picking at random one of the constituencies where the Vice-President has alleged the votes cast exceed the total number of registered voters, and this is what the eight presidential candidates garnered: Kiyiapi 176; Karua 330; Dida 89; Mudavadi 135; Muite 61; Kenneth 294; Raila 1,812; Uhuru 54,898. Now if you total the votes for all the candidates it comes to 57,795. This is against a registered voter population of 66,000. Therefore it appears there is no substance to what the vice-president is claiming on this particular issue. It really irritates for someone to make a claim that does not check out even at the most cursory inspection. However, the issue of the rejected votes which stood at 330,000+ with less than half the votes tallied, but which have now mysteriously disappeared needs an explanation. I hope Isaack Hassan addresses the issue the next time he holds a press briefing. I had immediately noticed that also. Maybe Kalonzo was insinuating that the numbers used to calculate the PORK totals are the ones off. I'll crunch the numbers and see. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 15:20:16 GMT 3
Kalonzo is quoted saying that the law requires that results be transmitted first electronically before the tallying sheets are sent to HQ. Anyone know which law that is? Kamale , This is what the Nation's political analyst Benji Ndolo posted yesterday in his fb page. "Miscelleneous Amendment to the Elections Act 2012..."Returning officers shall transmit all voting results electronically to the National Tallying Centre" I fear we could easily fool around and drift into a constitutional crisis. For all those name-calling and questioning my patriotism, you would do better to expend your energy trying to find truth and answers for this country. For me it always has been and always will be Kenya first." Nowayhaha Shukrani! I have actually found it but you cannot seriuosly hang on it to invalidate the poll: 82. (1) The presiding officer shall, before ferrying the actual
results of the election to the returning officer at the tallying venue,
submit to the returning officer the results in electronic form, in such
manner as the Commission may direct.
(2) The results submitted under subregulation (1) shall be
provisional and subject to confirmation after the procedure described in
regulation 73.Subsection 2 confirms my thinking that such submission is only provisional and cannot be used to invalidate the result for failure to transmit. But then it is the usual lethargy of our legal draughtsmen who cannot even make provision in the rules for electronic failure leaving it to the edict of the chairman on the process to use as was the case with the failure of the electronic validation of voters. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 7, 2013 15:22:30 GMT 3
B6k, CORD/ODM had their presidential tallies and so did Jubilee , Once Orengo , Bett and Nyongo came out gun blazing against IEBC with claims of election irregularities during the first day of provisional results it was clear what could have been the reason - defeat was knocking on the door and from the numbers they were getting from their agents in polling station results were showing that they were losing the presidential elections. They were left with clutching at straws and hoping manna would drop from heaven and the elections some how would proceed to a runoff . First were the miscellaneous SMS's and mails from the so called Raila friendly groups aka FORA etc that from their tallies they were confident of winning and the elections and that the elections would proceed to a runoff , second came in the "rejected votes excuse" and how they would force a runnoff on the strength of the rejected votes. Thirdly having gotten a straw in the name of rejected votes came out a" confident "Kalonzo with false bravado of how they are sure of winning this elections -This was to instill confidence to CORD/ODM supporters most of whom were already throwing in the towels. The other tactics was use of propaganda that the electronic systems had been hacked by their opponents , allegations which were unfounded. The IEBC chairman who had been a villain for the last 2 days became a hero overnight to CORD/ODMs supporters when he made the decision to go manual way and all was going on well till the moment the results started reflecting the same trend as in the provisional results with almost a similar Uhuru's lead margin then all over a sudden IEBC Chairman became a villain once again. To add salt to injury the rejected votes in the actual results were becoming less and less to an extent where they were becoming ineligible and to an extend could not influence the election outcome.This is the reason which has made them accept the only route they have to force another election is through the Supreme Court and with Makau Mutua hinting in his last article that Mutunga is their only savior they have decided to take that route. Seems fate is not on their side any strategy they have used or tied to has either failed or didn't work . , I have a hunch that there is more to RR's story about rejected votes but he isn't being totally honest about it. If we are to believe that the electronic system was hacked into, then it is possible that CORD hackers were pushing up the numbers of rejected votes in order to clamour for a runoff later. The whole RR story about his sister & other relatives deliberately spoiling their votes sounds like fiction to me. They would've voted for their man genuinely, but once it became clear he was losing they would've hacked the system to push up the rejected votes in hope of declaring the need for a rerun. We are virtually the same level we were with the electronic vote (UK 2.4m to Raila's 1.9m) & yet the rejected votes have plummeted to just above 30k once the actual Form 36's signed off on by ALL agents has been used. Very interesting...... B6k, Claims were that the rejected votes were properly marked presidential ballot papers but slotted in the other ballot boxes color marked for either senate , governor e.t.c. Then I was wondering when were they were interjected (at what juncture ) and added to the presidential tally because the presidential votes were to be counted first and results relayed electronically, were they interjected when the other posts votes were being tallied - Something doesn't add up  |
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Post by abdulmote on Mar 7, 2013 15:23:46 GMT 3
The impression I have so far is that the tallying of the presidential votes is already bungled beyond reasonable credibility. Whether its integrity can be redeemed at all, time will tell. I just hope and pray that Kenyans will have the patience to allow the SC to intervene and adjudicate on the needful.
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Post by mank on Mar 7, 2013 15:36:52 GMT 3
Folks, I am out of here. Later. Enjoy the discussions. Good decision! In our private conversation yesterday I told you that you were taking issues too personally to be rational. What you have said on this thread has taken that behaviour to a whole new level. Take some rest and sober up. |
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Post by mank on Mar 7, 2013 16:05:24 GMT 3
I do not go by street rumors my friend, scan your evidence in here and let the membership make their own judgment. Otherwise you cannot makeup stuff and expect everyone to buy it as nothing but the truth. You are mistaken if you think you are my audience. I do not care one bit about convincing anybody and their mother. Soon wheat will be separated from chaff. There you go again! After you took only a half hour leave on your own prescription. If you are not looking for audience here, why do you post? You are such an irritant! This is our space, and we need it to stay clean. You have soiled it a lot in this thread and you should take back some of your uncouth language, .. like asking people to pull their rectums from I don't know where. Is pulling rectums another thing you are specially informed about, just like you are informed about the results? Again, you are an irritant and you need to take a leave! |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 16:17:53 GMT 3
The impression I have so far is that the tallying of the presidential votes is already bungled beyond reasonable credibility. Whether its integrity can be redeemed at all, time will tell. I just hope and pray that Kenyans will have the patience to allow the SC to intervene and adjudicate on the needful. Abdulmote It is unlike you to make such a sweeping statement. I am sitting in my office and the TV in the corner has commissioners come up and read Form 36 which they told us has been signed by the agents of the candidates at constituency level and backed up by what was signed off at the polling station. I cannot imagine a more fairer way of getting the results so just how is the process bungled as I cannot see any.....and on this am very objective! |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 7, 2013 16:18:18 GMT 3
The impression I have so far is that the tallying of the presidential votes is already bungled beyond reasonable credibility. Whether its integrity can be redeemed at all, time will tell. I just hope and pray that Kenyans will have the patience to allow the SC to intervene and adjudicate on the needful. That is exactly what Raila wants, to introduce doubt in the entire process. You remember what I said in the other thread and you disagreed with me? Well, here we are 24 hrs later. |
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Post by mank on Mar 7, 2013 16:24:08 GMT 3
I took the liberty to check the presidential results for Runyenjes constituency, just picking at random one of the constituencies where the Vice-President has alleged the votes cast exceed the total number of registered voters, and this is what the eight presidential candidates garnered: Kiyiapi 176; Karua 330; Dida 89; Mudavadi 135; Muite 61; Kenneth 294; Raila 1,812; Uhuru 54,898. Now if you total the votes for all the candidates it comes to 57,795. This is against a registered voter population of 66,000. Therefore it appears there is no substance to what the vice-president is claiming on this particular issue. It really irritates for someone to make a claim that does not check out even at the most cursory inspection.
However, the issue of the rejected votes which stood at 330,000+ with less than half the votes tallied, but which have now mysteriously disappeared needs an explanation. I hope Isaack Hassan addresses the issue the next time he holds a press briefing. I suspect IEBC did the rational thing about misplaced but correctly filled ballots - it would be foolish to condemn ballots that colour blinds and people who are intimidated by the idea of identifying strange sounding colours from others (like my grandmother and her sister) placed in the wrong colour-coded box. To allege rigging just because rejected ballots have dwindled, before exploring this possibility, is too fast a leap! But hey, for some it is not a fair election unless they win - they said it before election, and now they are putting it into action ... again! |
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Post by abdulmote on Mar 7, 2013 16:50:04 GMT 3
Kamalet,
I have my reasons which are derived from the bigger picture and nothing else. Firstly the legally provided framework of announcing the results (electronically) had failed. That failure aside, that process was also intended to have the results announced at the tallying centers for obvious reasons; to avoid unnecessary aspersions of doubts that may come about, were the said announcements to be made days later at Nairobi and following enduring transport of the same without the relevant parties' accredited agents. You must bear in mind that the absence of the said agents is crucial for the sake of transparency, since their signatures cannot be verified for authenticity at the Bomas.
Secondly, the parties agents in Nairobi get thrown out of the Bomas. That gap when the votes collated were without their 'guards' at the Center is another reasons which can fuel the negative speculations.
Thirdly, there is the issue of the "rejected votes". Even some of the independent observers confirmed obvious inconsistencies on the criteria of categorizing such votes.
Fourthly, the delay. Today is Thursday the 7th. Whilst the law provided for the time delay in announcing the results, it is very clear that Hassan was not in control, was being evasive or unsure of what was going on. Hassan simply lacked the minimum threshold of confidence to maintain credibility on the part of the Commission, in his periodic explanations on the same.
Lastly, this election is not just about who wins or loses, but transparency and perceived integrity is essential for all the parties concerned on the whole process to its full completion.
Taking all these factors into consideration, I cannot help but conclude to what I have stated above.
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Post by podp on Mar 7, 2013 17:09:57 GMT 3
Kamalet, I have my reasons which are derived from the bigger picture and nothing else. Firstly the legally provided framework of announcing the results (electronically) had failed. That failure aside, that process was also intended to have the results announced at the tallying centers for obvious reasons; to avoid unnecessary aspersions of doubts that may come about, were the said announcements to be made days later at Nairobi and following enduring transport of the same without the relevant parties' accredited agents. You must bear in mind that the absence of the said agents is crucial for the sake of transparency, since their signatures cannot be verified for authenticity at the Bomas. Secondly, the parties agents in Nairobi get thrown out of the Bomas. That gap when the votes collated were without their 'guards' at the Center is another reasons which can fuel the negative speculations. Thirdly, there is the issue of the "rejected votes". Even some of the independent observers confirmed obvious inconsistencies on the criteria of categorizing such votes. Fourthly, the delay. Today is Thursday the 7th. Whilst the law provided for the time delay in announcing the results, it is very clear that Hassan was not in control, was being evasive or unsure of what was going on. Hassan simply lacked the minimum threshold of confidence to maintain credibility on the part of the Commission, in his periodic explanations on the same. Lastly, this election is not just about who wins or loses, but transparency and perceived integrity is essential for all the parties concerned on the whole process to its full completion. Taking all these factors into consideration, I cannot help but conclude to what I have stated above. there is a nice cartoon doing the rounds ![]() sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/188983_566804280003881_437014284_n.jpg [/img] on a more serious note though, when we were queued to vote and some people spent long times in the ques we did not throw tantrums and someone said the law says IEBC can announce the results in 7 or less days so rather than form impressions, feelings etc. if one has issues with the way matters are going why not go the legal way unless we want to poke holes at that too. additionally who should be desperate? the job seekers i.e. the people we formed ques to employ or me and you who are not seeking elective posts, be it President, Deputy President, Governor, Senator etc. some (probably many) IDP are still in tents 5 years and we are busy worried about guys who care less about them and by extension you and I |
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Post by mank on Mar 7, 2013 17:12:16 GMT 3
Abdulmote,
We shall find ourselves in such situations over and over again till we come to terms with the fact that things won't go the way we want them to, simply because we draft in our constitution, regulations and/procedures: we can write in our books how things will be done, how we shall relay outcomes from this medium to that and ultimately publish them, but if we do not test the whole system and confirm that it works, reality will catch up with us and we shall have to do things not the way we prescribed in our guidelines, but in the way that is feasible under the circumstances. We just have to wake up to the fact that "what floats is indeed built" I mean ... Ukiona vyaelea, vyaundwa. .. it does not float on word alone like our politicians seem to believe word makes things happen!
But on the issue of integrity of this election, I think the system is well guarded. The failure is only in the transmission mechanism, and again that is because of unrealistic preparation with an ambitious transmission infrastructure.
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Post by joblesscorner on Mar 7, 2013 17:56:56 GMT 3
300,000 Rejected Votes,
According to my unreliable sources, it was due to hacking attempt to force a second round, but with manual tallying, the numbers have gone down tremendously.
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Post by abdulmote on Mar 7, 2013 18:12:54 GMT 3
According to Hassan during the press briefing five minutes ago, their IT personnel had identified an error in their system which was multiplying the rejected votes by eight! No issues of hacking there.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 7, 2013 18:13:28 GMT 3
300,000 Rejected Votes,According to my unreliable sources, it was due to hacking attempt to force a second round, but with manual tallying, the numbers have gone down tremendously. The IEBC chairman says the problem was with what we call "a stored procedure" in SQL that apparently was multiplying the rejected votes by 8 whenever the number was entered |
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