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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 10, 2013 19:14:36 GMT 3
As we all may be aware, the Hague trials of the Kenyan cases kicked off today. I was lucky to listen-in to the last minutes of the opening statements of the parties involved at the ICC's Ruto and Sang case, and to say that there is a case at the Hague for the two is to be very dishonest with oneself, even though very early in the day.
The picture painted today with the opening statements is that of a court and its operatives on trial. I was particularly taken a back by the OTP's request for a week's adjournment apparently to allow her first witness travel from Nairobi to the Hague. This coming from an office that has insisted on starting the trials immediately and talked very strongly against any delays caught everyone by surprise and obviously spoke to the difficulties of holding a lie together for long.
The coming days will be very interesting as the future of this court seems to largely depend on the Kenyan cases.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 19:57:15 GMT 3
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 20:21:05 GMT 3
And here:
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 10, 2013 21:07:36 GMT 3
Meanwhile, the man ICC loves to hate, Dr. David Matsanga is on fire:
After today's witnesses' debacle, I must say the man knows a thing or two about these cases.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 10, 2013 21:47:17 GMT 3
If the PEV in the rift-valley WAS NOT ORGANISED, IN WHICH CASE SPONTANEOUS. --How do we explain its mechanical efficiency?
But if it was organised, by who then? assuming it was not Ruto and his ODM bandwagon?
And if it was organised, would it not mean the ethnic cleansing was independent [in plan] of the Elections of 2007? since the rigging could not have been foreseen in the period of planning, long before the elections.
So, if the elections had not been rigged, what would have happened to the plans?
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 0:08:35 GMT 3
As we all may be aware, the Hague trials of the Kenyan cases kicked off today. I was lucky to listen-in to the last minutes of the opening statements of the parties involved at the ICC's Ruto and Sang case, and to say that there is a case at the Hague for the two is to be very dishonest with oneself, even though very early in the day. The picture painted today with the opening statements is that of a court and its operatives on trial. I was particularly taken a back by the OTP's request for a week's adjournment apparently to allow her first witness travel from Nairobi to the Hague. This coming from an office that has insisted on starting the trials immediately and talked very strongly against any delays caught everyone by surprise and obviously spoke to the difficulties of holding a lie together for long. The coming days will be very interesting as the future of this court seems to largely depend on the Kenyan cases. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, having watched the first day's proceedings (aka opening statements) I must admit I am considering drafting a lengthy apology letter to you & WSR. Somewhere in the archives of Jukwaa I intimated that UK should take on the services of one Karim Kahn as his counsel if he wants to beat this rap. His current mzee QC, although very sound in matters of law isn't digital enough, or aggressive enough to handle his case. His assistant, the young blonde one (who is not a QC if I recall Sadik's input back in the day), is much better at putting points across than her senior. Now that WSR hired Karim Kahn (KK ), he is already appearing to be innocent of all charges against him. Bensouda was left to initially rolling her eyes in consternation against attacks of her office (with special mention to her predecessor, one Louis Moreno Ocampo) not investigating the KE situation independently as any decent OTP should do & then eventually wondering what freight train just hit her! That said, it was a brilliant day for the WSR defense I always assumed would be doomed. Kahn's use of the OTP's own video evidence (which they used without sound) that he later presented with sound against the OTP proving that WSR was pro-cosmopolitanism in the Rift Valley & not a warmongering Kalenjin warrior was a clincher! He also clearly has a better grasp of KE politico-socio-dynamics when he expanded the cause of the conflict beyond a two dimensional Kalenjin vs Kikuyu thing to a general hodge-podge, multi-ethnic competition for limited resources that covers even Kisiis, Luhya's & other communities on both sides of the divide KE. What people like Njakip need to realize is as a defense lawyer all he need do is sow the seeds of doubt (aka show reasonable doubt). I don't think that Bensouda has the evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt (& this is purely on opening statements & preliminary evidence) when you compare the two. Karim Kahn's only moment of weakness was when he aired a video clip (& he relied too much on Jeff Koinange "On The Bench" clips) of Ruto talking about owning only the 100 acres he acquired illegally from IDP Mr Muteshi that he recently gave back after paying a fine. All in all, it seems the KE dynamic duo have done their homework & attempted to fill in the gaps (such as correcting the 100 acre land acquisition in our revamped KE judiciary recently) before going into the ICC trials. As I have said before, Kenyans are running rings around this predominantly western run/owned court... Moonki, over to you....
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 0:16:48 GMT 3
If the PEV in the rift-valley WAS NOT ORGANISED, IN WHICH CASE SPONTANEOUS. --How do we explain its mechanical efficiency? But if it was organised, by who then? assuming it was not Ruto and his ODM bandwagon? And if it was organised, would it not mean the ethnic cleansing was independent [in plan] of the Elections of 2007? since the rigging could not have been foreseen in the period of planning, long before the elections. So, if the elections had not been rigged, what would have happened to the plans? Jakaswanga, if you are going to do anything well then you must practice. Having seen land clashes in RVP every 5 years coinciding with the election cycle since 1992, wouldn't you say some sort of organized mass action could be efficient by 2007? Just musing....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 7:11:22 GMT 3
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 11, 2013 7:55:44 GMT 3
B6K, The free movie is here, right in our living rooms. As suspected all along, ICC seems to have bitten more than it could chew, at least going by the early signs. The OTP started on a very shaky ground.
As you rightly point out, it looked very bad on the OTP bringing audio-less video then go ahead and totally distort the message in the video. It perfectly well played into Ruto's narrative of falsehoods and half-truths and intentional distortion of facts for their own survival. I personally believe it all has to do with sheer incompetent investigations much of which was inherited. You must have noticed their eagerness to rebut Kahn's statement despite not being the right time to do so. This to me indicated a panicking lot, that seemed to realize the magnitude of the damage done on day one, albeit a little late.
On the other hand, Ruto's team seems very focused and has totally understood the kind of evidence Bensouda has against them. Kahn succeeded on day one in juxtaposing Ruto's actions and pronouncements by showing how he not only preaches peace and coexistence, but has on three occasions actually supported a non-Kalenjin (two of which, he supported a Kikuyu)to be president of Kenya. It becomes very hard to convince anyone that the same man who as early as 2002 wanted and has actually succeeded at installing a Kikuyu as president is the same one leading the mass murder of the Kikuyu tribe as OTP would want us to believe. That is such a contradiction that is simply incomprehensible.
As regards Njakip, Matsanga in those videos up there suggests that his (Njakip's) brother from another mother is a technical witness in these cases. It will be interesting to see how he twists in the wind, or will he decide to join the many witnesses running away from this shame? I cant imagine we have a whole year plus of this drama.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 11, 2013 8:05:05 GMT 3
If the PEV in the rift-valley WAS NOT ORGANISED, IN WHICH CASE SPONTANEOUS. --How do we explain its mechanical efficiency? But if it was organised, by who then? assuming it was not Ruto and his ODM bandwagon? And if it was organised, would it not mean the ethnic cleansing was independent [in plan] of the Elections of 2007? since the rigging could not have been foreseen in the period of planning, long before the elections. So, if the elections had not been rigged, what would have happened to the plans? Interesting questions Jackaswanga, the efficiency had everything to do with the anger that had built over the entire first five years of Kibaki coupled with ODM's way of politicking. That is how I understood then and still do now. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by merkeju on Sept 11, 2013 8:33:08 GMT 3
B6K, The free movie is here, right in our living rooms. As suspected all along, ICC seems to have bitten more than it could chew, at least going by the early signs. The OTP started on a very shaky ground. As you rightly point out, it looked very bad on the OTP bringing audio-less video then go ahead and totally distort the message in the video. It perfectly well played into Ruto's narrative of falsehoods and half-truths and intentional distortion of facts for their own survival. I personally believe it all has to do with sheer incompetent investigations much of which was inherited. You must have noticed their eagerness to rebut Kahn's statement despite not being the right time to do so. This to me indicated a panicking lot, that seemed to realize the magnitude of the damage done on day one, albeit a little late. On the other hand, Ruto's team seems very focused and has totally understood the kind of evidence Bensouda has against them. Kahn succeeded on day one in juxtaposing Ruto's actions and pronouncements by showing how he not only preaches peace and coexistence, but has on three occasions actually supported a non-Kalenjin (two of which, he supported a Kikuyu)to be president of Kenya. It becomes very hard to convince anyone that the same man who as early as 2002 wanted and has actually succeeded at installing a Kikuyu as president is the same one leading the mass murder of the Kikuyu tribe as OTP would want us to believe. That is such a contradiction that is simply incomprehensible. As regards Njakip, Matsanga in those videos up there suggests that his (Njakip's) brother from another mother is a technical witness in these cases. It will be interesting to see how he twists in the wind, or will he decide to join the many witnesses running away from this shame? I cant imagine we have a whole year plus of this drama. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ I don't know if we watched the same opening trial, yes the defense did show videos of Ruto with audio, but was it relevant to what Ruto is accused of, the videos with Jeff Koinange which to me looked like a defense with nowhere else to get information but relying on K24 only was showing, one Ruto defending why he was opposed to the new constitution, and mostly the lies on land, and to me it looks more of Ruto the inciter and dishonest, who will twist information for his own gains, the defense used a video clip where Ruto is so proud of owning 100 acres, which as we all know now was taken from a displaced person, this can be used by the prosecutor as an example of how dishonest Ruto his, his words does not match his action, while he talks of anyone can own land in Rift valley, on the other hand he snatched 100 acres of another Kenyan who was running for his life, which Ruto is the real Ruto, words talking about peace or action grabbing an IDP,s land and proudly announcing it in public without shame. The defense did show a video of Ruto talking about devolution which at that time he was campaigning under ODM, but when it came to translation The Ruto defense decided to omit the words from Ruto that pointed Kbaki and Moi as watu wa vita ambao wako PNU, and defense should understand that ODM was a group of leaders from the people Ruto mentioned minus one tribe, The Kikuyu, in that clip Ruto does not mention the Kikuyus can also own land in Rift Valley, the omission was intentional. The other video clip the defense did put forward was where there is a breaking news about people being killed in Kiamba church and Ruto is talking about having peace and asking Kenyans wherever they are for peace, but on the breaking news its talking of armed mobs numbering thousands marching towards burnt forest, while he is talking about peace, mobs of Kalenjin warriors were descending on Kikuyus in Burnt forest. As i said earlier the defense did not prove anything with those videos but incriminate his client more.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 11, 2013 8:51:15 GMT 3
Merkeju,
So far we have Ruto's own voice in the court by way of those videos against the prosecutor's theory which never made any sense beyond where it was concocted. After day one, the only thing that will save the OTP if at all, is the witnesses. So far there is none, in fact it has been reported that Ruto is coming back home this evening pending the shipment of some witness some time next week. How much confidence does this give you my friend?
On Muteshi's land, this was brought up as early as now by the defense for a reason. The ruling in Kenya favored Ruto in a major way and anyone trying to take advantage of it will not go far.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by kamalet on Sept 11, 2013 9:42:02 GMT 3
With the clock started at the ICC NJAKIP has been inordinately silent and is not feeding us with a blow by blow final political demise of Kenya's No.2.
I hope it is not a case of disillusionment with the performance of OTP and flamboyance of Khan!
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 17:43:28 GMT 3
B6K, The free movie is here, right in our living rooms. As suspected all along, ICC seems to have bitten more than it could chew, at least going by the early signs. The OTP started on a very shaky ground. As you rightly point out, it looked very bad on the OTP bringing audio-less video then go ahead and totally distort the message in the video. It perfectly well played into Ruto's narrative of falsehoods and half-truths and intentional distortion of facts for their own survival. I personally believe it all has to do with sheer incompetent investigations much of which was inherited. You must have noticed their eagerness to rebut Kahn's statement despite not being the right time to do so. This to me indicated a panicking lot, that seemed to realize the magnitude of the damage done on day one, albeit a little late. On the other hand, Ruto's team seems very focused and has totally understood the kind of evidence Bensouda has against them. Kahn succeeded on day one in juxtaposing Ruto's actions and pronouncements by showing how he not only preaches peace and coexistence, but has on three occasions actually supported a non-Kalenjin (two of which, he supported a Kikuyu)to be president of Kenya. It becomes very hard to convince anyone that the same man who as early as 2002 wanted and has actually succeeded at installing a Kikuyu as president is the same one leading the mass murder of the Kikuyu tribe as OTP would want us to believe. That is such a contradiction that is simply incomprehensible. As regards Njakip, Matsanga in those videos up there suggests that his (Njakip's) brother from another mother is a technical witness in these cases. It will be interesting to see how he twists in the wind, or will he decide to join the many witnesses running away from this shame? I cant imagine we have a whole year plus of this drama. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, as far as the opening statements went, OTP was a major disappointment. Yes they spoke a lot better than Ocampo with his Spanglish that was barely understandable, but their case seemed weak, hollow, & under-researched. To them, the KE situation can be summed up as a struggle for political power between the Kalenjin & the Kikuyu. Nothing can be further from the truth. Karim Khan's analysis was much closer to the truth as it shows the complexities surrounding our political class's dealings that go beyond tribe. Of the four opening statements I heard I would rate them as follows: OTP >> weak & two dimensional; Victim's Lawyer >> uninspiring & calling on the judges to be "angry"; Karim Khan >> phenomenal/Rock Star performance!; Katwa Kigen >> Good show. By the way, have you seen or heard from Njakip Moonki Otishotish? I hope someone has put the poor fellow on suicide watch because everything we told him about the ICC's "solid" cases is unfolding before our eyes. This is what happens when you take CNN & TIME magazine reports at face value....
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 17:48:12 GMT 3
B6K, The free movie is here, right in our living rooms. As suspected all along, ICC seems to have bitten more than it could chew, at least going by the early signs. The OTP started on a very shaky ground. As you rightly point out, it looked very bad on the OTP bringing audio-less video then go ahead and totally distort the message in the video. It perfectly well played into Ruto's narrative of falsehoods and half-truths and intentional distortion of facts for their own survival. I personally believe it all has to do with sheer incompetent investigations much of which was inherited. You must have noticed their eagerness to rebut Kahn's statement despite not being the right time to do so. This to me indicated a panicking lot, that seemed to realize the magnitude of the damage done on day one, albeit a little late. On the other hand, Ruto's team seems very focused and has totally understood the kind of evidence Bensouda has against them. Kahn succeeded on day one in juxtaposing Ruto's actions and pronouncements by showing how he not only preaches peace and coexistence, but has on three occasions actually supported a non-Kalenjin (two of which, he supported a Kikuyu)to be president of Kenya. It becomes very hard to convince anyone that the same man who as early as 2002 wanted and has actually succeeded at installing a Kikuyu as president is the same one leading the mass murder of the Kikuyu tribe as OTP would want us to believe. That is such a contradiction that is simply incomprehensible. As regards Njakip, Matsanga in those videos up there suggests that his (Njakip's) brother from another mother is a technical witness in these cases. It will be interesting to see how he twists in the wind, or will he decide to join the many witnesses running away from this shame? I cant imagine we have a whole year plus of this drama. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ I don't know if we watched the same opening trial, yes the defense did show videos of Ruto with audio, but was it relevant to what Ruto is accused of, the videos with Jeff Koinange which to me looked like a defense with nowhere else to get information but relying on K24 only was showing, one Ruto defending why he was opposed to the new constitution, and mostly the lies on land, and to me it looks more of Ruto the inciter and dishonest, who will twist information for his own gains, the defense used a video clip where Ruto is so proud of owning 100 acres, which as we all know now was taken from a displaced person, this can be used by the prosecutor as an example of how dishonest Ruto his, his words does not match his action, while he talks of anyone can own land in Rift valley, on the other hand he snatched 100 acres of another Kenyan who was running for his life, which Ruto is the real Ruto, words talking about peace or action grabbing an IDP,s land and proudly announcing it in public without shame. The defense did show a video of Ruto talking about devolution which at that time he was campaigning under ODM, but when it came to translation The Ruto defense decided to omit the words from Ruto that pointed Kbaki and Moi as watu wa vita ambao wako PNU, and defense should understand that ODM was a group of leaders from the people Ruto mentioned minus one tribe, The Kikuyu, in that clip Ruto does not mention the Kikuyus can also own land in Rift Valley, the omission was intentional. The other video clip the defense did put forward was where there is a breaking news about people being killed in Kiamba church and Ruto is talking about having peace and asking Kenyans wherever they are for peace, but on the breaking news its talking of armed mobs numbering thousands marching towards burnt forest, while he is talking about peace, mobs of Kalenjin warriors were descending on Kikuyus in Burnt forest. As i said earlier the defense did not prove anything with those videos but incriminate his client more. Merkeju, for the record the Nigerian judge did state today that what we saw or heard during the opening statements doesn't constitute "evidence". The show is yet to begin. That said, judging from how the various legal teams put their cases forward, the prosecution was left behind at the starting blocks while the defense has bolted ahead & is leading the pack. Mambo bado....
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 17:51:24 GMT 3
On Muteshi's land, this was brought up as early as now by the defense for a reason. The ruling in Kenya favored Ruto in a major way and anyone trying to take advantage of it will not go far. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ I concur as I said earlier that KE settled that prickly 100 acres thorn in Ruto's side at our new & revamped Judiciary which is headed by a former NGO operative; the same ones Katwa Kigen mercilessly tore into today...
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Post by b6k on Sept 11, 2013 18:01:19 GMT 3
With the clock started at the ICC NJAKIP has been inordinately silent and is not feeding us with a blow by blow final political demise of Kenya's No.2. I hope it is not a case of disillusionment with the performance of OTP and flamboyance of Khan! Kamale, methinks it's a combination of the two! Njakip expected Ruto to be handcuffed after a dazzling opening statement delivery by Bensouda but sadly this was not to be. Karim Kahn exposed the OTP's amateurish "investigations" & exposed them for the copy paste deal that they were from the Waki Report & Human Rights groups work. As Njakip has mastered the art of copy pasting every burp from the ICC with an average of 5 new ICC threads per week from his handle, you can only commiserate with the poor fellow who has seen his life's work & hopes for an earth shattering climax being dashed in the very first day of court proceedings. That's gotta hurt! To add insult to injury it now transpires that the OTP wasn't even ready with its witnesses & has requested that the chamber allows them a whopping 5 days to travel to The Hague! Where are they coming from? Timbuktu riding an a$$? I always warned Njakip not to place too much hope in the flawed cases that Ocampo took to the ICC. I hope the scales are slowly being peeled off his eyes...
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Post by mank on Sept 11, 2013 18:12:10 GMT 3
It seems like my pop corn is going to waste because the movie delivery is so poor. I don't know if this is a production issue, or just a delivery issue. I expected the same treatment we had in pre-trials, but my computer is not flushing with Khan's arguments .... ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 1:00:53 GMT 3
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Post by mank on Sept 12, 2013 6:06:53 GMT 3
....The picture painted today with the opening statements is that of a court and its operatives on trial. .. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ No surprises in the unfolding, except in that the observation elevates the once-a-suspect Amb. Muthaura to a prophet. He is the one who warned that "it will not be Muthaura who is tried in this court. In the end it will be the prosecutor who will be tried ..."
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Post by b6k on Sept 12, 2013 6:37:54 GMT 3
Meanwhile, the man ICC loves to hate, Dr. David Matsanga is on fire: After today's witnesses' debacle, I must say the man knows a thing or two about these cases. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, having finally watched the full interview of Dr Matsanga you posted (which it should be noted aired a few hours BEFORE Ruto's trial commenced) it is crystal clear that this man knows more than a thing or two about the ICC cases. He predicted on Tuesday morning that by either Thursday of Friday, prosecution witnesses would not turn up. In reality it turned out to be that they would not turn up that very same Tuesday, or day one of the proceedings!!!! Indeed if his allegations of collusion between Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan are true & the three Kenyans he mentions were attempting to settle political scores via the ICC so that their preferred candidate would've had a "slam dunk" election, then we are in for interesting days ahead. It becomes not so much of a case of Kenyans (the defense side) running rings around the ICC as I have always said but Kenyans (MM, MK, & OH) potentially being at the forefront of events that may lead to the demise of the ICC, or at the very least a massive clean up exercise at the OTP! Given the dismal performance of the OTP on the first day of submissions, we ought to be mentally preparing ourselves for a withdrawal of the cases, unless of course, the chamber deems it fit to bravely sink with the ship that is the OTP's flawed cases. IF the cases are withdrawn before a full trial & an inquiry is initiated to determine what went wrong (Matsanga echoes Karim Kahn's call for a special inquiry into why an "innocent" man was dragged before the ICC) then Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan may find themselves in the extremely unenviable position of being the individuals personally responsible in shattering the dream of an independent & respected world court...
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Post by mank on Sept 12, 2013 6:51:43 GMT 3
Meanwhile, the man ICC loves to hate, Dr. David Matsanga is on fire: After today's witnesses' debacle, I must say the man knows a thing or two about these cases. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, having finally watched the full interview of Dr Matsanga you posted (which it should be noted aired a few hours BEFORE Ruto's trial commenced) it is crystal clear that this man knows more than a thing or two about the ICC cases. He predicted on Tuesday morning that by either Thursday of Friday, prosecution witnesses would not turn up. In reality it turned out to be that they would not turn up that very same Tuesday, or day one of the proceedings!!!! Indeed if his allegations of collusion between Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan are true & the three Kenyans he mentions were attempting to settle political scores via the ICC so that their preferred candidate would've had a "slam dunk" election, then we are in for interesting days ahead. It becomes not so much of a case of Kenyans (the defense side) running rings around the ICC as I have always said but Kenyans (MM, MK, & OH) potentially being at the forefront of events that may lead to the demise of the ICC, or at the very least a massive clean up exercise at the OTP! Given the dismal performance of the OTP on the first day of submissions, we ought to be mentally preparing ourselves for a withdrawal of the cases, unless of course, the chamber deems it fit to bravely sink with the ship that is the OTP's flawed cases. IF the cases are withdrawn before a full trial & an inquiry is initiated to determine what went wrong (Matsanga echoes Karim Kahn's call for a special inquiry into why an "innocent" man was dragged before the ICC) then Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan may find themselves in the extremely unenviable position of being the individuals personally responsible in shattering the dream of an independent & respected world court... B6K, I have not watched much yet ... and I plan to. So I do not know what has unfolded yet. I am just surprised that you hear news in what Matsanga said in the clip. A few of us have analyzed these court issues a long time, and have said here on Jukwaa just what Matsanga said ... not because we (or I, to speak for myself) knew first-hand, but because we analyzed issues and appearances of various people, especially those who Matsanga mentions. Thinking back, I think you and I were lock-step when we analyzed the issue of WTP4 ... that was when I was getting convinced that all this is a charade ... it did not take much to put the Makaus and the UNHCR guys in the picture. This is old news, only made new by the weight and obstinance of the big court in far away lands ... the (in)credible court. Oh man ...what to do with all the corn. Uness the court is inflexible, I don't see t going the full course of the schedule.
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Post by b6k on Sept 12, 2013 9:55:06 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, having finally watched the full interview of Dr Matsanga you posted (which it should be noted aired a few hours BEFORE Ruto's trial commenced) it is crystal clear that this man knows more than a thing or two about the ICC cases. He predicted on Tuesday morning that by either Thursday of Friday, prosecution witnesses would not turn up. In reality it turned out to be that they would not turn up that very same Tuesday, or day one of the proceedings!!!! Indeed if his allegations of collusion between Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan are true & the three Kenyans he mentions were attempting to settle political scores via the ICC so that their preferred candidate would've had a "slam dunk" election, then we are in for interesting days ahead. It becomes not so much of a case of Kenyans (the defense side) running rings around the ICC as I have always said but Kenyans (MM, MK, & OH) potentially being at the forefront of events that may lead to the demise of the ICC, or at the very least a massive clean up exercise at the OTP! Given the dismal performance of the OTP on the first day of submissions, we ought to be mentally preparing ourselves for a withdrawal of the cases, unless of course, the chamber deems it fit to bravely sink with the ship that is the OTP's flawed cases. IF the cases are withdrawn before a full trial & an inquiry is initiated to determine what went wrong (Matsanga echoes Karim Kahn's call for a special inquiry into why an "innocent" man was dragged before the ICC) then Louis Moreno Ocampo, Makau Mutua, Maina Kia, & Omar Hassan may find themselves in the extremely unenviable position of being the individuals personally responsible in shattering the dream of an independent & respected world court... B6K, I have not watched much yet ... and I plan to. So I do not know what has unfolded yet. I am just surprised that you hear news in what Matsanga said in the clip. A few of us have analyzed these court issues a long time, and have said here on Jukwaa just what Matsanga said ... not because we (or I, to speak for myself) knew first-hand, but because we analyzed issues and appearances of various people, especially those who Matsanga mentions. Thinking back, I think you and I were lock-step when we analyzed the issue of WTP4 ... that was when I was getting convinced that all this is a charade ... it did not take much to put the Makaus and the UNHCR guys in the picture. This is old news, only made new by the weight and obstinance of the big court in far away lands ... the (in)credible court. Oh man ...what to do with all the corn. Uness the court is inflexible, I don't see t going the full course of the schedule. Mank, I watched the first day's proceedings almost in full but for Sang (Katwa Kigen's) opening statement I only managed to catch the last hour or so over the radio (Chamgei FM) to be specific. It's a lot better catching it on tv or live-stream on a PC/laptop as you get to see the various players expressions, but alas the work schedule does not allow. I didn't post what I did above because it was news as such but as a public service for those Jukwaaists who may have access only via a hand-held device (especially during working hours) & may not have WiFi or sufficient data bundles to watch a 30 minute interview on their cell phones. Capturing a highlight as above can at least keep them informed until they catch the 7 o'clock or 9 o'clock news bulletins. Like you I doubt the OTP will really require the 7 months she requested to go through her evidence in the Ruto case, if it as weak as what her opening statements outlined. Hell, it may just take 7 months for her witnesses to start arriving at the rate they are going! I've always thought it would be just a matter of time until the cases (especially Uhuru's which I watched more of during the Pre-Trial Chamber stage) get dropped. I must admit I didn't imagine the OTP's house of cards of a case would come crashing down from day one!!!! www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000093375&story_title=judges-unhappy-with-bensoudaIf what these witnesses who have since dropped off the case are saying is true, then Bensouda is just going to take a right royal beating from the "pit bull" that Karim Kahn is in a court of law:
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 12, 2013 19:29:46 GMT 3
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Post by mank on Sept 12, 2013 19:51:51 GMT 3
Mank, I watched the first day's proceedings almost in full but for Sang (Katwa Kigen's) opening statement I only managed to catch the last hour or so over the radio (Chamgei FM) to be specific. It's a lot better catching it on tv or live-stream on a PC/laptop as you get to see the various players expressions, but alas the work schedule does not allow. I didn't post what I did above because it was news as such but as a public service for those Jukwaaists who may have access only via a hand-held device (especially during working hours) & may not have WiFi or sufficient data bundles to watch a 30 minute interview on their cell phones. Capturing a highlight as above can at least keep them informed until they catch the 7 o'clock or 9 o'clock news bulletins. Like you I doubt the OTP will really require the 7 months she requested to go through her evidence in the Ruto case, if it as weak as what her opening statements outlined. Hell, it may just take 7 months for her witnesses to start arriving at the rate they are going! I've always thought it would be just a matter of time until the cases (especially Uhuru's which I watched more of during the Pre-Trial Chamber stage) get dropped. I must admit I didn't imagine the OTP's house of cards of a case would come crashing down from day one!!!! .... If what these witnesses who have since dropped off the case are saying is true, then Bensouda is just going to take a right royal beating from the "pit bull" that Karim Kahn is in a court of law:.... B6K, I get you now, about that Matsanga news. I agree, it is newsworthy in the current context. My first take was a surprise because in some way it seemed as if it was only now that you were paying attention to the allegations ... we still have to treat them as allegations. I also listened to the Chamgei FM (if we are talking about the same thing, that's where Sang did his own talking). I think the strategy to have Sang speak at this stage of the case is risky. He comes across very persuasive, but at the same time many of his strongest points may not be as apparent to the players in that court as to you and I who, with the cultural background, don't need a lot of words to get the import of any of his statements. For example, when Sang wonders "I was in Nairobi, and .... I was coordinating ethnic attacks in Eldoret? ... My wife was in Eldoret, my 3 (yr or month) old was in Eldoret ... living in a Kikuyu house." ... that argument really needs to be broken down and delivered systematically, knowing that many people in that court do not have the benefit of realities in Kenya to see the arguments hidden there. I doubt the court can grasp the powerful arguments well enough when stated in such a passing manner. By breaking down I mean giving the court a visual image of how far Eldoret was from Nairobi (to assume that they know this from maps is to ignore the fact that driving an emotion home is as important, if not more important, than expressing facts when you are on the dock), explain the housing arrangement of the wife in El D (not just mention "living in a Kikuyu hse"), and perhaps go to some extent into his own and family turmoil coming through the chaos given the situation they were in. A man with knowledge of what was going to happen in Eldoret would certainly have made sure his wife and child were out of there before things started to happen .. . and if you are the one providing directives over the air, you have the schedule of the mess right before you before it happens. The bigger risk is that later in the case he might find himself contradicted .. . for example, it could well be that after the clashes broke he did travel to EL D to secure his family, or that he got them to travel out by themselves, somehow. .. I just can't help but wonder whether he did nothing about it. If my family was in Eldoret I would have found a way of getting them out of there, and I anticipate he did. If details come out that he did, then they will be coming out in the prosecutor's version, as contradiction of what he presented (even though they need not be). I am totally entertained by Khan!
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