Ouali
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by Ouali on Sept 24, 2013 14:11:55 GMT 3
Unfortunately we have lost 3 galant KDF soldiers in the rescue at westgate. I would have called it a masterpiece in warfare if we lost no soldier to these "young terrorists" as you rightly say.
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Post by patriotism101 on Sept 24, 2013 14:45:08 GMT 3
I stopped listening to Lenku longtime ago. It is ridiculous that such a guy could be given such a key ministry based on other factors beside competence. The bigger question for me is where is lady Omamo in all this? Does someone have to spell out to her role? How can Kenyans remain calm when the defense Secretary is all mum? Has there been a coup in that Ministry? This is just ridiculous. Was her role just to rub salt into the Odinga's wound? A criminal president gambling the security of a nation just to settle personal scores= disaster. Senti 5 Funny how now the tables have turned. In days gone by if anyone said "Raila", the retort would be "Raila this, Raila that". Now when Raila features nowhere, the Omamo nod is alleged to have been given simply "to rub salt into the Odinga's wound"! The Uhuruto admin can't win for losing. They're damned if they do & damned if they don't. They should just borrow a leaf from the Dubyah regime & do as they wish & let the peanut gallery gaggle on. I don't see how Odinga even comes into this thread... stupidity has its limits 6bk- if omamo and lenku have performed per your standards then the peanut is you. Dig into jukwaa to find out the intrigues around omamo's appointment. Senti 5 |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 24, 2013 15:14:12 GMT 3
So some terrorists make it to Westgate and massacre our people and the first thing that comes to someone's mind is the incompetence of the security agencies? No one even bothers to be a student of history to see how many terrorist acts take place even in countries where these characters worship. I am afraid that if terrorists always worked in a manner that they can get caught, then the world would be rid off terrorism as would be the case for crime. There have been many attempts that have been foiled but I cannot imagine that this needs to be reported to show that something is done - though even when arrests have been made, those holier than thou activists will claim harassment of innocent people! And this brings to mind the story of Samantha Lethwaite who is alleged to have been involved in the Nairobi attack. It is now in the public domain that she was in constant touch with "her" Sheik Aboud Rogo who was killed in curious circumstances last year. Perhaps to put matters in perspective, people might want to see the thread on the Rogo death where my views then are now fortified on his being a terrorist or one that hosted terrorists!!! |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 24, 2013 15:18:58 GMT 3
Really listening to the interieur ministers briefing one can understand why the westgate was attacked. The man is least sure of his duty and does not have any idea of how many casualties are currently in hospital. Ask him any question and he asks the men next to him for answers. Asking kenyans to be calm is good but when the minister does not look to be in control of the situation/information it only confirms we are far off from the tunnel end. I stopped listening to Lenku longtime ago. It is ridiculous that such a guy could be given such a key ministry based on other factors beside competence. The bigger question for me is where is lady Omamo in all this? Does someone have to spell out to her role? How can Kenyans remain calm when the defense Secretary is all mum? Has there been a coup in that Ministry? This is just ridiculous. Was her role just to rub salt into the Odinga's wound? A criminal president gambling the security of a nation just to settle personal scores= disaster. Senti 5 As they say, ignorance is bliss. Omamo does not need to appear to talk to anyone one. This was a matter of internal security and the military were working in accordance with the law where they offer assistance to civilian authorities as was the case at Westgate. Under the circumstances the stage was owned by Ole Lenku. You may not like what he says, but you can be sure it would not have been any different if read by Uhuru, Kimaiyo or Raila! They rely on information from their operational commanders and relay it as given.....now what is there to like or not like? Who did you expect to give you information? |
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Post by patriotism101 on Sept 24, 2013 16:19:43 GMT 3
I stopped listening to Lenku longtime ago. It is ridiculous that such a guy could be given such a key ministry based on other factors beside competence. The bigger question for me is where is lady Omamo in all this? Does someone have to spell out to her role? How can Kenyans remain calm when the defense Secretary is all mum? Has there been a coup in that Ministry? This is just ridiculous. Was her role just to rub salt into the Odinga's wound? A criminal president gambling the security of a nation just to settle personal scores= disaster. Senti 5 As they say, ignorance is bliss. Omamo does not need to appear to talk to anyone one. This was a matter of internal security and the military were working in accordance with the law where they offer assistance to civilian authorities as was the case at Westgate. Under the circumstances the stage was owned by Ole Lenku. You may not like what he says, but you can be sure it would not have been any different if read by Uhuru, Kimaiyo or Raila! They rely on information from their operational commanders and relay it as given.....now what is there to like or not like? Who did you expect to give you information? Kamale - so why is karangi in this briefings if this is an internal matter? I asked whether there is a coup in the ministry of defense. Unfortunately due to your tribalic short sitedness you missed my point. This has nothing to do with raila or your criminal president- who by the way is having a ball since he can now buy some time before he boards a plane to den hag. When an external force attacks- the police are pushed aside it becomes a military operation whether internally or externally d%#%b a**s . Senti 5 |
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Post by podp on Sept 24, 2013 16:30:05 GMT 3
Unfortunately we have lost 3 galant KDF soldiers in the rescue at westgate. I would have called it a masterpiece in warfare if we lost no soldier to these "young terrorists" as you rightly say. Seeing those images of President Uhuru Kenyatta and former Prime Minister Raila Odinga in a display of national unity almost prompted me to give a silent salute to Al Shaabab. It need not take a dastardly terrorist attack and dozens of innocent lives to force feuding Kenyan leaders to close ranks against common threats, but that is what happened. mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/Al-Shaabab-president-uhuru-kenyatta-Raila-Odinga-westgate-/-/1949942/2004312/-/format/xhtml/-/5dr3h2/-/index.htmlIf Mr Kenyatta, Mr Odinga, Deputy President William Ruto, former Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka, and other claimants to national leadership can grow beyond tribal – and I use this term deliberately – chieftains, perhaps they might start to persuade their legions of tribal followers to lay down their arms. To start with, they can start by disarming their social media warriors. |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 24, 2013 17:47:19 GMT 3
As they say, ignorance is bliss. Omamo does not need to appear to talk to anyone one. This was a matter of internal security and the military were working in accordance with the law where they offer assistance to civilian authorities as was the case at Westgate. Under the circumstances the stage was owned by Ole Lenku. You may not like what he says, but you can be sure it would not have been any different if read by Uhuru, Kimaiyo or Raila! They rely on information from their operational commanders and relay it as given.....now what is there to like or not like? Who did you expect to give you information? Kamale - so why is karangi in this briefings if this is an internal matter? I asked whether there is a coup in the ministry of defense. Unfortunately due to your tribalic short sitedness you missed my point. This has nothing to do with raila or your criminal president- who by the way is having a ball since he can now buy some time before he boards a plane to den hag. When an external force attacks- the police are pushed aside it becomes a military operation whether internally or externally d%#%b a**s . Senti 5 Just what is tribal...gikuyu?  ?....in what I said or do you just drop words without knowing how to use them. The incident at Westgate was an Internal Security matter. Karangi is an operational commander as is Kimaiyo hence his presence. The man incharge of internal security is Ole Lenku. That surely cannot be difficult to comprehend. |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 24, 2013 17:54:33 GMT 3
Unfortunately we have lost 3 galant KDF soldiers in the rescue at westgate. I would have called it a masterpiece in warfare if we lost no soldier to these "young terrorists" as you rightly say. Seeing those images of President Uhuru Kenyatta and former Prime Minister Raila Odinga in a display of national unity almost prompted me to give a silent salute to Al Shaabab. It need not take a dastardly terrorist attack and dozens of innocent lives to force feuding Kenyan leaders to close ranks against common threats, but that is what happened. mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/Al-Shaabab-president-uhuru-kenyatta-Raila-Odinga-westgate-/-/1949942/2004312/-/format/xhtml/-/5dr3h2/-/index.htmlIf Mr Kenyatta, Mr Odinga, Deputy President William Ruto, former Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka, and other claimants to national leadership can grow beyond tribal – and I use this term deliberately – chieftains, perhaps they might start to persuade their legions of tribal followers to lay down their arms. To start with, they can start by disarming their social media warriors. Podp Sadly the politicians were only riding on the goodwill of Kenyans in time of difficulties. It is not any different to the US Embassy bombing when Moi and Kibaki rode in one car to the scene after the overwhelming reaction of Kenyans. Last Saturday the appeals for blood did not require the politicians to urge people to do so. I guess when they saw the reaction of the Kenyans it appeared opportune to feign the unity! After the saga is over and 'we have moved on'.....it will be back to business as usual! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 24, 2013 19:02:54 GMT 3
Seeing those images of President Uhuru Kenyatta and former Prime Minister Raila Odinga in a display of national unity almost prompted me to give a silent salute to Al Shaabab. It need not take a dastardly terrorist attack and dozens of innocent lives to force feuding Kenyan leaders to close ranks against common threats, but that is what happened. mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/Al-Shaabab-president-uhuru-kenyatta-Raila-Odinga-westgate-/-/1949942/2004312/-/format/xhtml/-/5dr3h2/-/index.htmlIf Mr Kenyatta, Mr Odinga, Deputy President William Ruto, former Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka, and other claimants to national leadership can grow beyond tribal – and I use this term deliberately – chieftains, perhaps they might start to persuade their legions of tribal followers to lay down their arms.To start with, they can start by disarming their social media warriors. Podp Sadly the politicians were only riding on the goodwill of Kenyans in time of difficulties. It is not any different to the US Embassy bombing when Moi and Kibaki rode in one car to the scene after the overwhelming reaction of Kenyans. Last Saturday the appeals for blood did not require the politicians to urge people to do so. I guess when they saw the reaction of the Kenyans it appeared opportune to feign the unity!
After the saga is over and 'we have moved on'.....it will be back to business as usual!This Jukwaa is a hopeless place! Very few if any are joining me in my earlier declared unilateral ceasefire! The guts of Ole Lenku and the disappeared Omamo are spilt all over the blog, and RAO and UK's little show is already neatly filed under was nice, now back to business as usual. Jesus!I am looking like a man who carried a knife to a gunfight! ---Sawa! gloves off! THE CONFESSIONS OF A WOULD BE PERVERT!They say a pope, any pope at the Vatican, prays everyday for his morning erection to subside  . They say, too, that many a celibate catholic priest, unable to find the discipline to uphold their asexual vows, do pounce upon the defenseless bottoms of boys in their custody. I vowed to maintain a short ceasefire, whilst I joined the nation in a festival of hypocritical pain until the last body is buried, or some other such closure ritual [cremation?], but Alas! here I am am perverting my vows at the behest of cynics like Podp and Kamalet --what a horrible lot! and pouncing on the bottom of the grieving PORK! By thunder I tried hard to run from my mind. And would, that I had succeeded to murder my memory, which retained events that mocked my ceasefire resolve. Yes, like the aforementioned pope at daily trials, my mind kept on erecting to remind me of the truths about the Kenyan political elite and their MOUs! Broken MOUs mocked me as I watched the national pantomime of collective grief enacted at the top! Mpigs!Tana River killings, Baragoi killings --O fellow countrymen! I did not catch this orchestrated blanket of grief upon the land! Mpesa Harambees for survivors I saw not, nor blood banks accounts to colour swim an ocean!  Looking at Raila and Uhuru holding hands, touring hospitals and 'rising above their differences', I could not help a poke of memory. ---This Raila, barely two months ago, and still may be, is under investigations for some coup plot! His side-kick Owallo is still in the 'dock' so to speak. This Raila was the subject of public humiliations at airports, his businesses vandalised by likely state agents ..... and remember here on Jukwaa 1. At the funeral of either Michuki or Karume or Wangari Mathai, he and Uhuru kissed in what we argued of as a possible ROMAN KISS. 2. Another video of Raila and Uhuru holding double hands and making an appointment 3. Another endearing photo of joviality when Kalonzo and Raila called on Uhuruto at state house to re-negotiate their retirement allowances, then withheld and reduced. Then only last week Uhuru announced his war-path plans, after, in addition to the referendum blues, the insult of being a clerk by Raila after the issuance of crooked title deeds at the coast. And Lo, this tactic is actually a repeat of sets from 2011 thus: www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-71505/uhuru-decides-open-fight-railaAnd now here, after Westgate, I am invited to gape in awe at the UNITY OF PURPOSE AND SPIRIT IN THE LAND! Jukwaa I [like Patriotism101, Podp and Kamalet] have a problem taking these guys seriously! I need to get stuporic drunk first, or totally loose my mind, before I can join the proclamations of national unity without a knowing wink ---like: There goes the tired show! now a parody too frequently staged! No magic left ---If you have a mind! that can think! Westgate is the game changer? Now it is love till death do us part? War on terror! Americans stood behind George Dubya waving the flag to the last man. 10 years later? A nice lesson for y'áll patriots! --- |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 24, 2013 19:38:54 GMT 3
I'm curious about the two American-looking dudes with handguns in the photo above. Could they be FBI? Are they allowed to do that?! Questions for later: As of now, Israeli media offically report Israeli Commandos have taken charge of the situation in Nairobi. It is end game time. PS: 2 Canadian and a french diplomat are reportedly among the dead, also the wife of an american diplomat. The IDF [Israeli defence force] has a reputation to uphold and defend --that is the elite commando units. Those your 90 minutes at Entebbe squads operating thunderbolts. So inevitably, the question has arisen: 4 days in Nairobi for some ragtag bunch no more than a dozen? Why not 90 minutes in Nairobi, and back in Tel-Aviv for the evening dinner the same day? For those used to serving in surroundings of ineptitude, institutional incompetence and lack of accountability, there would be no need to provide an answer to the above. Indeed right here on Jukwaa, commentators reveal Ole Lenku, Karangi, Omamo or whatever they call themselves, are little less than big babies in big jobs. So it is a waste of breath asking them adult questions. But in Israel, a country of 4 million dedicated to militarily dominating a surrounding of 150 million Arabs and Persians, when an elite commando unit [or consultants from such] do not deliver on time, then sleepless nights is the national pass time! I have heard a jovial version: the Israelis got bogged down in the politics of command structure in Nairobi. Kenya is a functional democracy not a banana republic. It is all very well for someone to announce THE KDF has taken over operations. But the police were there first, and re-enforcement came from the RECCE squad, at first. Switching commands mid-air is not that easy under fire. The army can not just in a democracy, assume command over the police in a combat situation without due process! So, well, in this version, foreign commandos had to wait for democracy to work! ---A great story if you ask me!  Officially anyway there was no foreign assistance accepted! All is well that ends well. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 22:13:30 GMT 3
By Macharia Gaitho More by this Author Kenyan security forces have rightfully earned plaudits for a gallant performance tackling the bloody siege at Westgate Shopping Mall. From the moment the Al-Shabbab terrorists struck just before lunchtime on Saturday and killed dozens before taking hostages inside the upmarket mall, policemen on patrol and from nearby police stations who were first on the scene bravely entered the complex and led hundreds of terrified victims to safety. The policemen from various units were lightly armed with handguns, with only a few bearing assault rifles. T hey had no uniform or protective gear such as helmets, visors and bullet-proof vests. They came to provide heroic early pictures as they shepherded shoppers to safety or made their way down corridors and up staircases within the building to make for iconic images that could have come straight from some Hollywood action movie. The policemen first on the scene thought they were responding to an ordinary robbery. It took a while for the full gravity of the situation to sink in and the heavy-hitters from the special squads of the Kenya Police, General Service Unit and Anti-Terrorism squads to be brought in, followed by special forces from the Kenya Army. While Kenyans may have been enthralled by the firepower assembled, there must have been reason to worry when the siege dragged on even as the authorities issued assurances that they were in control of the mall except for a few pockets where the terrorists were holding hostages. That a bunch of dozen or so terrorists could hold at bay all that the Kenya Defense Forces and the Kenya Police plus the military advisors or special forces (it was never clear which) from Israel, the United States and Britain could throw at them should have sent the message that the picture was not as rosy as painted. It certainly cannot be easy tackling terrorists who are shielding behind innocent men, women and children; ready to die for their cause and probably laying booby traps and explosives that could blow the whole edifice sky high. But it seemed that the reassuring messages from the press briefings and the various tweeter handles run by the security agencies set out to provide positive spin on a dicey situation. By Tuesday afternoon, for instance, there were still reports of gunfire from the Westgate Mall despite ‘confirmation’ the previous night that security forces had vanquished the terrorists, freed all the remaining hostages and were in full control of the complex. Well after on Tuesday, a message from the Kenya Police twitter account announced that the operation was still in the ‘last stages’, a significant retreat from the previous night’s assurances that Westgate had been liberated. The Kenya Defense Force and the other twitter handles were also all on messages about ‘mopping up’ operations, but remained conspicuously silent on whether all the hostages had been rescued and whether there were still gunmen providing resistance. That seemed a familiar follow up from Sunday night when the security forces indicated that they were in the ‘final push’ to conclude the operation, only for the siege to last throughout the night and onto the whole of Monday. Conflicting and contradictory information from the various twitter handles set up by different agencies involved in the operation did not help matters. The Kenya Defense Forces (@kdfinfo), the Kenya Police (@policeke), the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government (@interiorke), and the Kenya National Disaster Operation Centre (@ndockenya) were all providing updates on social media. So were individually twitter handles run for Interior Secretary Joseph ole Lenku (@jolelenku) and Inspector General of Police David Kimaiyo (@igkimaiyo). Most of the time they had only inane information, and were intent on re-tweeting each other’s messages, congratulating themselves, and appealing to the media and bloggers to stop giving out unofficial information. What the official tweets did not reveal is that the operation did not appear to be going as smoothly as projected. According to knowledgeable security sources, the multiplicity of security agencies from the Kenya Defense Forces and the Kenya Police converging at Westgate early resulted in territorial wrangles over command responsibility. That was why early on in his first press briefing, President Uhuru Kenyatta felt constrained to clarify, and repeat, that overall operational command lay with the Inspector-General of Police. By that time valuable time may have been lost, and hence the delays in launching a quick assault on the first night or at least by the Day Two. As the siege wore in, it became clear that the military had assumed overall command. They were to lead the operation, and also emphasised in that it was only them responsible for the public information flow. The military tweets, unlike the others, seem to focus in the heroics of the KDF soldiers to the exclusion of other agencies. At the press conference on Monday afternoon where Interior Secretary ole Lenku and KDF commander General Julius Karangi gave an assurance that the mall had been taken and ‘most’ hostages freed, police Inspector-General Kimaiyo seemed to have been relegated to the periphery. The gung ho message from the press briefing may have served to re-assure Kenyans that the siege was ending and imbue them with patriotic fervour, but it seemed to leave more questions than answers. By Tuesday evening, well after a press briefing from State House initially promised for morning had still not been convened, there remained a loud silence on the whereabouts and numbers of the hostages reportedly rescued when the troops took control of the building. The casualty count was also unclear. The Monday press briefing had reduced the number of dead from 69 to 62, citing double-counting. However at the same there were was news that soldiers securing the building had retrieved 10 more bodies, which should have increased the fatalities to over 70. This would not include any bodies that might have been recovered in the overnight operation on Monday night onto Tuesday morning. Another major mystery fueled by conflicting reports was on the fate of the terrorists. Initial reports from the beginning indicated that Westgate was seized on Saturday by between 10 and 15 gunmen. When the mall was liberated, the numbers of those killed or captured kept on fluctuating. It was also unclear whether any of them had escaped in the confusion. mgaitho@ke.nationmedia.com @machariagaitho on Twitter. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/After-the-ululations-the-hard-questions/-/440808/2005554/-/kv4lj2/-/index.html |
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Post by b6k on Sept 24, 2013 22:31:19 GMT 3
The truth of the matter is that we have government secretaries who are more than incompetent and look like mere stooges. One wonders why they are earning our money in the first place. The KDF is involved in the westgate operation but the defence secretary is missing in action. The interieur secretary appears on national tv but looks like a G4S officer giving an account of a shop robbery. Kenyans will very soon come to their own conclusions more so coming closely after the JKIA inferno. What kind of government do we have in place. Did this "leadership" really know what it means to lead a nation or was is just. for some obvious personal challenges and reasons. In 2002, 70% of kenyans sung "yote yawezekana bila moi" but three years later they wished moi was still around and in charge. The majority might not always have it right all the time! Ouali, I recently read on Twitter that Mars Group actually gives this government a thumbs up. They said something to the effect that if you engage them they respond. This has never been the case with governments of yesteryear. Uhuruto even welcome Q&A sessions. I doubt Moi ever held an open press conference & Kibaki famously insulted a journalist for daring to ask him a "stupid" question. Granted there are those who are stiff & inarticulate like your "G4S officer" & others who are MIA but for the most part the digital GK is a step in the right direction as far as open & accessible (African) government goes. Interesting you should bring in the JKIA fire here. Is it a coincidence that we had a fire start at the immigration section, where all records of incoming visitors would be stored, followed swiftly with the Westgate Siege which allegedly had quite a number of foreigners (most of whom would have flown into the country) carry it out? |
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Post by b6k on Sept 24, 2013 22:35:21 GMT 3
Funny how now the tables have turned. In days gone by if anyone said "Raila", the retort would be "Raila this, Raila that". Now when Raila features nowhere, the Omamo nod is alleged to have been given simply "to rub salt into the Odinga's wound"! The Uhuruto admin can't win for losing. They're damned if they do & damned if they don't. They should just borrow a leaf from the Dubyah regime & do as they wish & let the peanut gallery gaggle on. I don't see how Odinga even comes into this thread... stupidity has its limits 6bk- if omamo and lenku have performed per your standards then the peanut is you. Dig into jukwaa to find out the intrigues around omamo's appointment. Senti 5 Actually what we have come to learn one election after another is political careers ought to have a time limit... |
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Ouali
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by Ouali on Sept 25, 2013 0:23:47 GMT 3
I take this liberty to sympathise with fellow kenyans who lost their lives and loved ones. But I equally sympathise with the likes of B6k, kamale etc who think a government or a leadership for that matter, democraticaly elected can only and always be right.
Some little intelligence and reflection will tell you to err is human and governments are led by human beings. Why do we close our eyes when our king is naked. He who really loves his king will tell him so not laugh along with him or refuse the obvious by looking for reasons to explain why the king can go naked as you are doing.
The 70 or so kenyans who lost their lives may not understand how someone took oath to protect their lives yet the whole intelligence machine went to slumberland chasing other personal mirages.You can shout loud all the thumbs up for this government but the reality still hits home by the end of the day.
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Post by wanyee on Sept 25, 2013 0:45:02 GMT 3
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Post by patriotism101 on Sept 25, 2013 3:08:51 GMT 3
stupidity has its limits 6bk- if omamo and lenku have performed per your standards then the peanut is you. Dig into jukwaa to find out the intrigues around omamo's appointment. Senti 5 Actually what we have come to learn one election after another is political careers ought to have a time limit... I have never had qualms with that idea  |
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Post by patriotism101 on Sept 25, 2013 3:18:54 GMT 3
Kamale - so why is karangi in this briefings if this is an internal matter? I asked Karangi is an operational commander as is Kimaiyo hence his presence. The man incharge of internal security is Ole Lenku. That surely cannot be difficult to comprehend. Kamale, Sometimes I wonder whether you argue for the sake of arguing or you are paid to write on Jukwaa. 3 KDF soldiers are dead- you still want to tell me that they were operating under the police/lenku chain of command? You really want to argue this one?? I will pass. Rais mshukiwa has promised to pursue capture and punish the terrorist wherever they are - read Somali. Do we now get a statement from Omamo detailing the response outside our borders?? Steps she has taken to secure the border etc? Maybe condolence to the KDF men killed at Westgate? Visit the families etc?? Something just doesn't add up. Senti 5 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 4:08:50 GMT 3
What is one to make of these claims from erratic Sonko, a guy who seemingly has much sway in Uhuruto's power structures. Would he not have shared this information with Uhuru? One would think that Uhuruto would take this seriously enough to address it publicly. What about the police Sonko claims he took the women to, where they recorded a statement. Really? and how comes we're only hearing of this now. And oh he can't even tell if the women were indians or arabs. Now that's ridiculous. All so very strange. Security organs knew of attack in advance, claims Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko Updated Tuesday, September 24th 2013 By MOSES NJAGIH NAIROBI; KENYA : Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko sensationally told the Senate that security organs and intelligence officers were aware of an impending attack on key areas in Nairobi, including the Westgate Mall. Sonko claimed that he had helped two women of either Asian or Arabic origin to offer information to police on Al-Shabaab militiamen who were targeting sections of Nairobi. He gave the revelations as the Senate took time off its business to discuss the terror attack on the mall. He said the women had approached him three months ago with information to the effect that the gang, which had rented a house in Parklands and Westlands, were planning a major attack. “They mentioned Westgate Mall, Village Market, Parliament and the Kenyatta International Conference Centre as their targets,” claimed Sonko. The Motion was moved by Leader of Majority Kithure Kindiki, who termed the attack a national disaster. Attacking members of the National Intelligence Service (NIS), Sonko told the House that after getting the information from the two women, he assisted them to record their statements with the police and the intelligence officers for further investigations. Shock many He said the two women were initially living with the gang in the rented houses but had escaped after being showed the items that the suspects were preparing for the attack. Though the Senator declined to give the exact details that the two women gave the police, he said that he was ready to record a statement to that effect. “I know I will shock many people here. These people have remained in this area planning the attack for about three months and despite the investigators getting that information they could not quell the attack,” said Sonko. The senators faulted the country’s intelligence services even as they hailed the security organs over the manner in which they had handled the attack. “Instead of the intelligence officers keeping busy tapping our mobile phones, NIS should be employing that vigour towards arresting crime,” said Minority Deputy Whip Janet Ong’era. Baringo Senator Gideon Moi hailed Kenyans over their strong spirit during the tragedy. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000094225&story_title=security-organs-knew-of-attack-in-advance-claims-nairobi-senator-mike-sonko&pageNo=2
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Post by b6k on Sept 25, 2013 5:54:27 GMT 3
And this brings to mind the story of Samantha Lethwaite who is alleged to have been involved in the Nairobi attack. It is now in the public domain that she was in constant touch with "her" Sheik Aboud Rogo who was killed in curious circumstances last year. Perhaps to put matters in perspective, people might want to see the thread on the Rogo death where my views then are now fortified on his being a terrorist or one that hosted terrorists!!! Indeed the White Widow was once in the custody of our mboys in Mombasa then mysteriously disappeared as did her accomplice/roommate. The cops had found bomb making materials similar to the ones that made her a widow when her first hubby blew himself in the saba Saba UK bombings. These "disappearances" point to a disease which is rampant in KE. Many security or immigration officials are more than willing to sell their nation's safety for a quick buck. This cuts across party lines as Kajwang's tenure of dishing out KE passports & work permits like sweets to dodgy foreigners showed. Also, one wonders whether the bill of rights ought to apply to terror suspects. These people use our legal systems (& by "our" I include other democratic states such as the US & UK) against us. All you have to look at was the beheading of a Brit soldier by a Nigerian born Brit (who UK authorities insisted KE authorities hand him over to them) in broad daylight in the streets of London to know that our collective approach to terrorists is warped. Lethwaite's accomplice, whose name I forget, was released for lack of evidence when he was suspected of planning an attack. He has since been hauled back to a court in Mombasa. There are cases where extra-judicial justice is probably the best option... |
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Post by b6k on Sept 25, 2013 6:13:32 GMT 3
I have heard a jovial version: the Israelis got bogged down in the politics of command structure in Nairobi. Kenya is a functional democracy not a banana republic. It is all very well for someone to announce THE KDF has taken over operations. But the police were there first, and re-enforcement came from the RECCE squad, at first. Switching commands mid-air is not that easy under fire. The army can not just in a democracy, assume command over the police in a combat situation without due process! So, well, in this version, foreign commandos had to wait for democracy to work! ---A great story if you ask me! Officially anyway there was no foreign assistance accepted! All is well that ends well. Jakaswanga, I don't see anything wrong in admitting we had some help. From day one the presence of Israeli, British & American security personnel on the ground was very clear. They helped rescue quite a number of hostages as was emphasized by the survivor interviewed by Lilian Muli last night (she was rescued by Brits). William Hague even clearly stated in his condolence message that a crack unit had been dispatched from the UK to replace the High Commission's security team who were amongst the first responders, as Were other teams from the US & Israeli embassies. The US sent in commandos from Italy. No doubt Israel sent some as well. ALL of these countries had a stake in the siege as their citizens lives & treasure were at risk. When you consider the logistical challenges of getting all these teams in country, getting them on the ground, & then having them work out a joint attack plan that will minimize civilian deaths, it becomes clear why the siege took as long as it did. Not to take anything away from the selfless efforts of the KDF or police units but these myths of invincibility are put out by many nations for political reasons. "We are one", n'est pas? As mighty as the IDF May appear, they do rely heavily on intelligence assistance fro Uncle Sam. ...& before anyone quips about the dearth of our new found friends commandos, I saw a Chinese guy with some high powered binoculars in one of the video clips from Westgate. |
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Post by b6k on Sept 25, 2013 6:25:41 GMT 3
I take this liberty to sympathise with fellow kenyans who lost their lives and loved ones. But I equally sympathise with the likes of B6k, kamale etc who think a government or a leadership for that matter, democraticaly elected can only and always be right. Some little intelligence and reflection will tell you to err is human and governments are led by human beings. Why do we close our eyes when our king is naked. He who really loves his king will tell him so not laugh along with him or refuse the obvious by looking for reasons to explain why the king can go naked as you are doing. The 70 or so kenyans who lost their lives may not understand how someone took oath to protect their lives yet the whole intelligence machine went to slumberland chasing other personal mirages.You can shout loud all the thumbs up for this government but the reality still hits home by the end of the day. On the contrary Ouali. Nowhere have I said the government is always right. At the same time I could also add that there's no proof that the government is always wrong either. There are those on Jukwaa who tend to rejoice when the government finds itself in a bind (as we saw when the team that deported Chinedu was held hostage in Lagos for example). I put such comments into those who do not like the government's message anyway as Kamale said earlier or the damned if you do, damned if you don't one as I said. There have been numerous attempts of terror attacks that have been foiled in the past. These naturally will be kept under secrecy lest citizens panic to the point of rarely leaving the safety of their homes. I heard MPigs advocating the introduction of a know thy neighbor system akin to the mjumbe (nyumba kumi) one in TZ where a government appointed snoop is "in charge" of 10 households in a neighborhood. S/he has to know who lives where, what they do for a living, who visits them, etc. My fellow Kenyans, be careful what you wish for... |
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Post by b6k on Sept 25, 2013 6:30:20 GMT 3
Actually what we have come to learn one election after another is political careers ought to have a time limit... I have never had qualms with that idea It's been a while since we agreed on anything! Fret not, 20 years will be over before you know it... |
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Post by b6k on Sept 25, 2013 6:37:47 GMT 3
What is one to make of these claims from erratic Sonko, a guy who seemingly has much sway in Uhuruto's power structures. Would he not have shared this information with Uhuru? One would think that Uhuruto would take this seriously enough to address it publicly. What about the police Sonko claims he took the women to, where they recorded a statement. Really? and how comes we're only hearing of this now. And oh he can't even tell if the women were indians or arabs. Now that's ridiculous. All so very strange. Security organs knew of attack in advance, claims Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko Updated Tuesday, September 24th 2013 By MOSES NJAGIH NAIROBI; KENYA : Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko sensationally told the Senate that security organs and intelligence officers were aware of an impending attack on key areas in Nairobi, including the Westgate Mall. Sonko claimed that he had helped two women of either Asian or Arabic origin to offer information to police on Al-Shabaab militiamen who were targeting sections of Nairobi. He gave the revelations as the Senate took time off its business to discuss the terror attack on the mall. He said the women had approached him three months ago with information to the effect that the gang, which had rented a house in Parklands and Westlands, were planning a major attack. “They mentioned Westgate Mall, Village Market, Parliament and the Kenyatta International Conference Centre as their targets,” claimed Sonko. The Motion was moved by Leader of Majority Kithure Kindiki, who termed the attack a national disaster. Attacking members of the National Intelligence Service (NIS), Sonko told the House that after getting the information from the two women, he assisted them to record their statements with the police and the intelligence officers for further investigations. Shock many He said the two women were initially living with the gang in the rented houses but had escaped after being showed the items that the suspects were preparing for the attack. Though the Senator declined to give the exact details that the two women gave the police, he said that he was ready to record a statement to that effect. “I know I will shock many people here. These people have remained in this area planning the attack for about three months and despite the investigators getting that information they could not quell the attack,” said Sonko. The senators faulted the country’s intelligence services even as they hailed the security organs over the manner in which they had handled the attack. “Instead of the intelligence officers keeping busy tapping our mobile phones, NIS should be employing that vigour towards arresting crime,” said Minority Deputy Whip Janet Ong’era. Baringo Senator Gideon Moi hailed Kenyans over their strong spirit during the tragedy. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000094225&story_title=security-organs-knew-of-attack-in-advance-claims-nairobi-senator-mike-sonko&pageNo=2 As far as I recall, the NIS's mandate doesn't give them the authority to arrest anyone. Hell they don't even carry firearms, unless Westgate or KE's 9-11 part 2 will lead to New legislation to that effect. Their work is simply to collect information, relay it to the executive & other relevant authorities, & move on to the next case... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 7:14:21 GMT 3
What is one to make of these claims from erratic Sonko, a guy who seemingly has much sway in Uhuruto's power structures. Would he not have shared this information with Uhuru? One would think that Uhuruto would take this seriously enough to address it publicly. What about the police Sonko claims he took the women to, where they recorded a statement. Really? and how comes we're only hearing of this now. And oh he can't even tell if the women were indians or arabs. Now that's ridiculous. All so very strange. Security organs knew of attack in advance, claims Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko Updated Tuesday, September 24th 2013 By MOSES NJAGIH NAIROBI; KENYA : Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko sensationally told the Senate that security organs and intelligence officers were aware of an impending attack on key areas in Nairobi, including the Westgate Mall. Sonko claimed that he had helped two women of either Asian or Arabic origin to offer information to police on Al-Shabaab militiamen who were targeting sections of Nairobi. He gave the revelations as the Senate took time off its business to discuss the terror attack on the mall. He said the women had approached him three months ago with information to the effect that the gang, which had rented a house in Parklands and Westlands, were planning a major attack. “They mentioned Westgate Mall, Village Market, Parliament and the Kenyatta International Conference Centre as their targets,” claimed Sonko. The Motion was moved by Leader of Majority Kithure Kindiki, who termed the attack a national disaster. Attacking members of the National Intelligence Service (NIS), Sonko told the House that after getting the information from the two women, he assisted them to record their statements with the police and the intelligence officers for further investigations. Shock many He said the two women were initially living with the gang in the rented houses but had escaped after being showed the items that the suspects were preparing for the attack. Though the Senator declined to give the exact details that the two women gave the police, he said that he was ready to record a statement to that effect. “I know I will shock many people here. These people have remained in this area planning the attack for about three months and despite the investigators getting that information they could not quell the attack,” said Sonko. The senators faulted the country’s intelligence services even as they hailed the security organs over the manner in which they had handled the attack. “Instead of the intelligence officers keeping busy tapping our mobile phones, NIS should be employing that vigour towards arresting crime,” said Minority Deputy Whip Janet Ong’era. Baringo Senator Gideon Moi hailed Kenyans over their strong spirit during the tragedy. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000094225&story_title=security-organs-knew-of-attack-in-advance-claims-nairobi-senator-mike-sonko&pageNo=2 As far as I recall, the NIS's mandate doesn't give them the authority to arrest anyone. Hell they don't even carry firearms, unless Westgate or KE's 9-11 part 2 will lead to New legislation to that effect. Their work is simply to collect information, relay it to the executive & other relevant authorities, & move on to the next case... So you're telling us that a senator informs "security organs and intelligence officers" of such serious matters and then what happened b6k? If NIS followed the process you gloss over, what are Kenyans and the world to conclude? What then did the executive do with that information? |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 25, 2013 9:31:23 GMT 3
As far as I recall, the NIS's mandate doesn't give them the authority to arrest anyone. Hell they don't even carry firearms, unless Westgate or KE's 9-11 part 2 will lead to New legislation to that effect. Their work is simply to collect information, relay it to the executive & other relevant authorities, & move on to the next case... The restructured NIS (note that it is a change from the previous NSIS where the word Security was dropped) is a product of our activist driven constitution. There is no envision of intelligence and security going hand in hand, so the NIS gets intel as it did from Sonko, analyses it and hands it over to the police for execution. The police decide if they will arrest, extra-judicially kill the suspect or just let the people go depending on what bribe they get. The NIS is not armed and has no power or arrest or detention thanks to the work of their predecessors - Special Branch! |
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?....in what I said or do you just drop words without knowing how to use them. The incident at Westgate was an Internal Security matter. Karangi is an operational commander as is Kimaiyo hence his presence. The man incharge of internal security is Ole Lenku. That surely cannot be difficult to comprehend.
. They say, too, that many a celibate catholic priest, unable to find the discipline to uphold their asexual vows, do pounce upon the defenseless bottoms of boys in their custody.
