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Post by mzee on Jun 11, 2012 22:57:17 GMT 3
If this investigation is left to kenyans then rest assured that nothing of substance will emerge. Its not that i think that kenyans are not smart, there are plenty of brainy kenyans. But history teaches us that all the so called inquiries have produced nothing. From the death of mckenzie, muge, ouko, mbai, jm, mboya etc. Its the end of the story. Its only the manufucturers who arrived in the country today who might unearth something if they get cooperation from our government. Otherwise they will end up with nothing as Mr. Troon who was invited to investigate oukos death.
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Post by tnk on Jun 12, 2012 1:39:22 GMT 3
Did I just read somewhere that Internet was down at Wilson airport at the time of the crash? We've got real issues to deal with in Kenya but most importantly, it's high time we became serious with how we do business! raiswakesho i also saw that somewhere so PS ndemo goes ahead to chew of the ear of the Star magazine because of publishing a fake image, and even personally delivers the missive hisself but the bigger fire of sloppy ICT services management is casually treated good grief a mission critical application is unavailable at the inopportune time of this tragedy. how likely is it that the application if down more frequently but has not been detected obviously because no tragedy has raised the issue what sloppiness well guess what the IEBC is on its way to acquire some several bn shs worth of IT services
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Post by okhunyanye on Jun 12, 2012 5:53:33 GMT 3
I have really strange feelings about this chopper accident. This chopper was acquired I think this year and is reasonably new...so just wtf happened that it just falls off the sky 8 minutes after leaving Wilson? Who stands to gain the most from these deaths???
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Post by mank on Jun 12, 2012 5:59:03 GMT 3
Did I just read somewhere that Internet was down at Wilson airport at the time of the crash? We've got real issues to deal with in Kenya but most importantly, it's high time we became serious with how we do business! raiswakesho
i also saw that somewhere
so PS ndemo goes ahead to chew of the ear of the Star magazine because of publishing a fake image, and even personally delivers the missive hisself
but the bigger fire of sloppy ICT services management is casually treated
good grief a mission critical application is unavailable at the inopportune time of this tragedy. how likely is it that the application if down more frequently but has not been detected obviously because no tragedy has raised the issue
what sloppiness
well guess what the IEBC is on its way to acquire some several bn shs worth of IT services Are you guys sure flights are dependent on internet? I worry that someone might confirm that they do ... because that would be very very scaring. Internet service can go down anywhere, any time, for any number of reasons.
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Post by amadain on Jun 12, 2012 6:27:03 GMT 3
As ripe as the picking are for conspiracy theories, there is no evidence of sabotage. I'll be using Occam's Razor for the time being. If you think this crash is bad, you should compare it to the Polish air disaster of 2010, in which many senior government officials were killed including the president of Poland and his wife. Conspiracy theories surfaced very soon after the crash, but investigations eventually pointed to pilot error. Life is a gamble and Saitoti & co. happened to lose on June 10 2012. Are you guys sure flights are dependent on internet? I worry that someone might confirm that they do ... because that would be very very scaring. Flights do not depend on the internet. Nothing to worry about.
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Post by tnk on Jun 12, 2012 6:41:43 GMT 3
mank not sure but i think you misunderstand www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000059697&story_title=Sabotage,-failure-or-human-error? == The other is the report that a critical tracking device at Wilson Airport was not working at the time because of Internet problems. == within this context is what i say, that ndemo cannot chew the star for publishing a fake photo, when there is a bigger problem internally
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Post by amadain on Jun 12, 2012 7:10:38 GMT 3
If this investigation is left to kenyans then rest assured that nothing of substance will emerge. Its not that i think that kenyans are not smart, there are plenty of brainy kenyans. But history teaches us that all the so called inquiries have produced nothing. From the death of mckenzie, muge, ouko, mbai, jm, mboya etc. Its the end of the story. Its only the manufucturers who arrived in the country today who might unearth something if they get cooperation from our government. Otherwise they will end up with nothing as Mr. Troon who was invited to investigate oukos death. It doesn't matter who does the investigation. Even the most senior FBI team specializing in air disasters could do it but it wouldn't make a difference, because in the end the report will be handed to government. If evidence points to sabotage, such information will be kept to wikileaks-style correspondence between US Embassy Nairobi and Washington, just like Harun Mwau's cocaine deals.
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Post by reporter911 on Jun 12, 2012 7:56:24 GMT 3
As ripe as the picking are for conspiracy theories, there is no evidence of sabotage. I'll be using Occam's Razor for the time being. If you think this crash is bad, you should compare it to the Polish air disaster of 2010, in which many senior government officials were killed including the president of Poland and his wife. Conspiracy theories surfaced very soon after the crash, but investigations eventually pointed to pilot error. Life is a gamble and Saitoti & co. happened to lose on June 10 2012. Are you guys sure flights are dependent on internet? I worry that someone might confirm that they do ... because that would be very very scaring. Flights do not depend on the internet. Nothing to worry about. NOT THE USUAL CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!Wieslaw Binienda's findings, based on computer modeling software that NASA used to analyze the space shuttle Columbia's destruction, are causing ripples in his native Poland, where there is simmering distrust of the formal rulings that the crash was accidental. Russian and Polish government teams determined that errors by the jet's Polish military flight crew caused the aircraft to clip a tree, lose part of its left wing, flip over and crash short of a runway at fog-bound Smolensk Airdrome two years ago. The April 10 incident killed all 96 aboard. The soft-spoken engineer has become a key player in the international drama swirling around the crash. Binienda has testified about his findings before the Polish and European parliaments, where politicians skeptical of the government probes are conducting their own inquiries. His analysis, coupled with the work of two other scientists who contend there is evidence of explosions aboard the jet just before the crash, has fueled speculation of a conspiracy and cover-up. www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2012/04/university_of_akron_engineerin.html
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Post by reporter911 on Jun 12, 2012 8:36:24 GMT 3
If this investigation is left to kenyans then rest assured that nothing of substance will emerge. Its not that i think that kenyans are not smart, there are plenty of brainy kenyans. But history teaches us that all the so called inquiries have produced nothing. From the death of mckenzie, muge, ouko, mbai, jm, mboya etc. Its the end of the story. Its only the manufucturers who arrived in the country today who might unearth something if they get cooperation from our government. Otherwise they will end up with nothing as Mr. Troon who was invited to investigate oukos death. It doesn't matter who does the investigation. Even the most senior FBI team specializing in air disasters could do it but it wouldn't make a difference, because in the end the report will be handed to government. If evidence points to sabotage, such information will be kept to wikileaks-style correspondence between US Embassy Nairobi and Washington, just like Harun Mwau's cocaine deals. YUP! you got that one right.. how many investigations are pending? after politicians or when Kenyans die by assassination? J.M Karuiki Marie Seroney Pio Gama Pinto Argwings Kodhek Tom Mboya Robert OUKO Bishop Alexander Muge, Father Kaiser Mugabe Were David Kimutai Too Oscar Kamau Kingara John Paul Oulo Extra- Judicial Killing of Mungiki Youth They used to use hired thugs and guns for previous assassinations, seems now the remote control buttons can blow anything out of the sky... Let the investigations begin and end... looking at past history it will either be "Pilot Error" or "The Weather"
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Post by kamalet on Jun 12, 2012 9:31:17 GMT 3
mank not sure but i think you misunderstand www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000059697&story_title=Sabotage,-failure-or-human-error? == The other is the report that a critical tracking device at Wilson Airport was not working at the time because of Internet problems. == within this context is what i say, that ndemo cannot chew the star for publishing a fake photo, when there is a bigger problem internally Airports do not use tracking devices that are dependent on the internet. Airports us RADAR to track aircraft within a particular airspace and this would have been done from ATC at JKIA. I think media hacks talk of things they rarely understand and only help fuel rumours. It is like the issue of the ill-fated chopper not having a black box. A simple google search for out lazy media hacks would have explained why choppers do not have black boxes - weight and cost and not speculated why the chopper did not have the box!
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Post by tnk on Jun 12, 2012 10:12:08 GMT 3
Airports do not use tracking devices that are dependent on the internet. Airports us RADAR to track aircraft within a particular airspace and this would have been done from ATC at JKIA. jukwaa am sure has an expert in this field to advice but am sure the kind of tracking is that of flight schedules, routing, crews, maintenance, instrumentation/panels etc. the kind of aviation data/logs/manifests that give an up to the minute account of craft, crew and passengers that are mandatory for making airspace the safest mode of transport even that radar feed must eventually find its way into some database right now there are too many theories floating about, my hope is that true investigations will shed some light on what happened. best or is it worst case scenario is sabotage, get culprit plus method and we all go home if its other type of failure (mechanical or error) then we have a full blown investigation on all other factors including state of mind of pilots
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Post by kamalet on Jun 12, 2012 10:40:52 GMT 3
[quote author=tnk board=general thread=7048 post=99426 time=1339485128 but am sure the kind of tracking is that of flight schedules, routing, crews, maintenance, instrumentation/panels etc. the kind of aviation data/logs/manifests that give an up to the minute account of craft, crew and passengers that are mandatory for making airspace the safest mode of transport
[/quote]
You are right each aircraft leaving the airport needs to have filed its flight plan and also provided a manifest of the crew and passengers to the relevant authorities.
This was actually done!
I am tryine to nullify this story of internet being down as a factor in this tragic event!
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Post by tnk on Jun 12, 2012 10:47:36 GMT 3
You are right each aircraft leaving the airport needs to have filed its flight plan and also provided a manifest of the crew and passengers to the relevant authorities. This was actually done! we are on the same page I am tryine to nullify this story of internet being down as a factor in this tragic event! as stated before, no one has made this claim what am saying is that there are holes in the audit trail on account of a malfunction or IT glitch, it is not causal to the accident but brings about new challenges in auditing (retracing the flight path) we only hope that the manual entries were nevertheless maintained despite the automated entry glitches but my point still remains, ndemo is out there chasing a fake picture while the IT system at the airport is malfunctioning
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Post by nereah on Jun 12, 2012 10:53:30 GMT 3
amazing how nairobi's rumour mill is spinning tales, from the bizarre to the comical. i am still helping myself.
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Post by mzee on Jun 12, 2012 11:00:17 GMT 3
You are right each aircraft leaving the airport needs to have filed its flight plan and also provided a manifest of the crew and passengers to the relevant authorities. This was actually done! we are on the same page I am tryine to nullify this story of internet being down as a factor in this tragic event! as stated before, no one has made this claim what am saying is that there are holes in the audit trail on account of a malfunction or IT glitch, it is not causal to the accident but brings about new challenges in auditing (retracing the flight path) we only hope that the manual entries were nevertheless maintained despite the automated entry glitches but my point still remains, ndemo is out there chasing a fake picture while the IT system at the airport is malfunctioning I agree 100% chasing a fake picture is focusing on the wrong issue.
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Post by kamalet on Jun 12, 2012 12:22:53 GMT 3
You are right each aircraft leaving the airport needs to have filed its flight plan and also provided a manifest of the crew and passengers to the relevant authorities. This was actually done! we are on the same page I am tryine to nullify this story of internet being down as a factor in this tragic event! as stated before, no one has made this claim what am saying is that there are holes in the audit trail on account of a malfunction or IT glitch, it is not causal to the accident but brings about new challenges in auditing (retracing the flight path) we only hope that the manual entries were nevertheless maintained despite the automated entry glitches but my point still remains, ndemo is out there chasing a fake picture while the IT system at the airport is malfunctioning TNK Internet fails everywhere and I have struggled most of last week with KDN failing a lot of its subscribers. I sincerely doubt if internet is a factor in this case and its failure to work or not actually is Kimunya's docket. The falsified photo is Ndemo's domain as media is under his ministry! Guys let us focus on the issue at hand
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Post by amadain on Jun 12, 2012 15:12:07 GMT 3
Reporter911 you proved my point when you copy-pasted the Polish conspiracy theory here. Investigations point to pilot error and extremely bad visibility, but there are still loony theories flying about. Anyway, let's not debate the Polish crash here.
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Post by mzee on Jun 12, 2012 15:17:43 GMT 3
Kamale, It seems that you want to make a big deal out of nothing. The internet cannot be an issue to discuss for two days running. Give it a rest afterall the sö called investigation which I doubt will prove anything is still on.
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Post by reporter911 on Jun 12, 2012 16:17:05 GMT 3
Reporter911 you proved my point when you copy-pasted the Polish conspiracy theory here. Investigations point to pilot error and extremely bad visibility, but there are still loony theories flying about. Anyway, let's not debate the Polish crash here. Amadain My point was that the Polish crush has never been resolved according to many experts.. and I doubt whether it will ever be... ( the dead can't talk) As for Kenya, same applies.. Helicopters have gone down, and usually it seem carrying politicians and in those cases alway come up with Pilot Error or bad weather.. hey that is the easiest excuse or way out for any evil being with plans to remotely control bring down planes or Helicopters out of the thin air. Kenyans should hope that for once a thorough investigation should be done and facts presented and not lies, theories or cover-ups...
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Post by kamalet on Jun 12, 2012 16:25:42 GMT 3
Kamale, It seems that you want to make a big deal out of nothing. The internet cannot be an issue to discuss for two days running. Give it a rest afterall the sö called investigation which I doubt will prove anything is still on. lol....Kamale stuck on internet...really? Go read who is stuck on! I asked for focus on the right things - that surely can be what you are accusing me of!
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Post by amadain on Jun 12, 2012 17:15:30 GMT 3
My point was that the Polish crush has never been resolved according to many experts.. and I doubt whether it will ever be... The cause of the Polish crash has been resolved. It was pilot error and bad visibility. Of course, fantasies are much more exciting and require less intelligence to understand compared to professional reports full of engineering, scientific and aviation jargon, hence the conspiracy theories.
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Post by Mobimba on Jun 12, 2012 17:30:34 GMT 3
Kamale is right. The Internet, down or up, cannot bring down a helicopter. The mention of the internet failure is really the beginning of the cover-up part of the murder plot. Any investigator looking for crucial flight data that may have been recorded online will simply be reminded that the internet was down.
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Post by nereah on Jun 12, 2012 17:36:29 GMT 3
courtesy of kenyan post: nereahThe above pic is not from today's chopper accident. If it was, it would be very useful to air accident investigators and of course the manufacturers of the chopper itself. The above is two years old from a totally different accident. Soma hapa sandra.visionsmartnews.com/helicopter-crash-near-meeker-co_3008.htmlIf you study the pics from the actual accident scene you will notice debris is scattered over a large area and that there is no depression on the ground at the impact site. Could this mean the chopper may have reached the ground when it was already in pieces? phil, the government through ps bitange ndemo(interestingly not dr alfred mutua) takes offense of an almost similar photo to the one above that was published on the cover of its yesterday's edition.the government is seeking redress from the media council. please allow me to pull down the controversial image and regret misleading this forum by re-posting it here.
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Post by mzee on Jun 12, 2012 17:43:33 GMT 3
Nereah, Nothing to apologize about. Everyone except ndemo knows that the thing is fake. Besides, its not the picture that caused the accident. You need not pull it down, let's keep it for the archives
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Post by kamalet on Jun 12, 2012 18:24:26 GMT 3
Nereah, Nothing to apologize about. Everyone except ndemo knows that the thing is fake. Besides, its not the picture that caused the accident. You need not pull it down, let's keep it for the archives .... it is Ndemo who blew the whistle on the fake photo and lodged the complaint with the media council!
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