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Post by abdulmote on Oct 29, 2012 23:38:34 GMT 3
Kamale has already indicated that it could have been a "commercial" despute or something of the sort. Let me speculate a little further from this:
Apparently some 'shops', stalls or butcheries belonging to some prominent Kisumu 'businessman' were razed down by some gang members, prersumably, these were the ones pulled down immediately after TNA's major rally some weeks ago. We even had a vedio clip in here by some dudes complaining of insecurity and gangs going out of control in Kisumu soon after that. I can't remember under what topic the vedeo was linked. I suppose, someone from the 'other' side had decided to teach the TNA side a lesson after TNA's 'succesfull rally' at that time.
Then these other chaps who had lost a good few Kenyan shillings as a result, decided to avenge their loss. A G3 is hired and kaboom! Kwega is taken out by the someone from the opposite side, or so it is thought.
Well, I think it is a little bit more than "biashara".
But, this is not a good indication, less than four months towards G elections.
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2012 10:20:43 GMT 3
In public interest, it is useful to post the unedited ministerial statement by the Minister of Internal Security on the insecurity in Kisumu which implicated a senior official of a recently launched political party and linking him to the mayhem that has gripped Kisumu in recent days. Here it is:
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OFFICIAL REPORT Thursday, 4th October, 2012 The House met at 2.30 p.m.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON INCREASED INSECURITY IN KISUMU CITY
The Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security (Mr. ole Metito): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have three Ministerial Statements. I want to start by the one asked by hon. Olago, Member for Kisumu Town West. In the Ministerial Statement, he wanted to know the insecurity state in Kisumu City. He wanted to know the following:-
1. The genesis of the violence, which also led to the attack of one Mr. Owino at Tuskys Supermarket in Kisumu Town and state the action that the police took subsequent to the attack.
2. To clarify whether the attack on Mr. Stephen Mithialo also known as Mada in Nairobi during a football match between Gor Mahia and AFC Leopards is associated with the ongoing violence in Kisumu and explain why Mr. Mada was arraigned in court at 5.00 a.m. on 26th September, 2012.
3. To clarify whether the conflict in Kisumu has been fuelled by a politician from Nairobi and, if so, provide details.
4. Finally, also to explain to the House how the Ministry has employed dialogue and peace building in the City in the wake of escalating violence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to that, hon. Shakeel Shabir, Member for Kisumu Town East Constituency requested to be informed why the Provincial Administration is exercising partiality by selectively arresting members of one group and not another and why they are receiving instructions from one Mr. Onyango Oloo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to state as follows: I want to start by informing the House that there are two rival business groups operating in Kisumu City. One is called China and the other is called America. On its part, China which means change in life, is a self help group duly registered by the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Services, while the American one is an amorphous group, which does not have structures.
In August, 2012, the City Council of Kisumu allocated a Temporary Occupation License (TOL) to four members of the American Group along Miuru Street. The rest of the members went ahead and grabbed some other spaces. This resulted in construction of a total of 86 kiosks. The China Group on its part moved in and grabbed spaces and allocated it to 32 of its members who refer to themselves as China 32 brothers. Later, the City Council in collaboration with Kisumu East District Security and Intelligence Committee decided to demolish all the kiosks. This action resulted in the reduction of tension that had previously built up between the two groups.
On 15th September, 2012, at 1800 hours, at Tuskys United Mall, one Caleb Owino Nyamor in the company of his friends, Richard Ogira, Daniel Odhiambo and George Odhiambo while entering the United Mall parking lot, were approached by one Paul Otieno Akoth alias Baby. He engaged Caleb in a talk and as they were talking, another man, Moi Nyakor Nyawer came from behind and held him by the neck and punched him on the right cheek. Two other men, Peter Ochieng Okore alias Maroon and Wilias Ochieng Akoth alias Boi joined in and started beating him with sticks and rungus before they escaped. During the attack, he lost his mobile phone and cash amounting to Kshs10,000. Caleb reported the attack at the Kisumu Police Station where investigations started immediately. The following three persons were arrested:-
1. Mr. Willis Ochieng Akoth alias Boi 2. Peter Ochieng Okore alias Maroon 3. Paul Otieno Okoth alias Baby.
They were later arraigned in court and charged before the Chief Magistrate’s Court Kisumu vide CR1627/47/4/2/0/1/2 for the offence of robbery with violence contrary to Section 296 subsection 2 of the Penal Code. The case is set for hearing on 17th October, 2012. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 6th September, 2012, a group of people allied to Caleb Owino Nyamor attacked Peter Ochieng Okore alias Maroon injuring him seriously before destroying property valued at Kshs400, 000. He reported the incident at the Kondele Police Station. The same mob moved to Kisumu Bus Park in search of one WillisOchieng Okoth, who is alleged to have been among the persons who assaulted the said Caleb Owino Nyamor. They however did not find him and they vented their anger on his property thereby destroying his three butcheries and burnt his Land Rover before stealing weighing machines, fridges, friers and meat. The value of property destroyed and stolen is estimated to be Kshs4.4 million.
Willis Ochieng Akoth reported the incident at Kisumu Police Station and investigations commenced. So far two suspects, Stephen Mudenyo, alias Mada, and Washington Ouko have been arrested and charged with the offence of malicious damage to property contrary to Section 339 (1) of the Penal Code and robbery with violence contrary to Section 296(2) of the Penal Code. The hearing is set for 24th October.
On 23rd September, 2012, Stephen Mudenyo, who had travelled to Nairobi for a football match between Gor Mahia FC and AFC Leopards, alleged that he had been attacked and injured by members of the American group while in Nairobi. However, this incident was not reported to any police station in the country. In retaliation to this allegation, a mob attacked Peter Ochieng Okore’s premises damaging the fence and stealing iron sheets. After this incident, the police managed to arrest three suspects, namely Agostino Nyaori Miyoma, Vincent Otieno Dola and Jonathan Okwiri Ojwaka. They were arraigned at the Kisumu Law Court and charged with the offence of stealing contrary to Section 339(1) of the Penal Code. The case will be mentioned again on 4th October, 2012.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to clarify here that Mr. Stephen Mudenyo, alias Mada, was removed from the cell at 5.00 a.m. However, he was presented before the Maseno Court at 8.00 a.m. It should be noted that the courts, like any other Government institution, commence operations at 8.00 a.m. At this point of investigations, there is no tangible evidence to link the violence to a politician based in Nairobi. However, we request any person with any evidence to present it to the police to aid investigations. If anybody will be found culpable, appropriate action will be taken.
With regard to what the Ministry is doing to bring about dialogue and peace, a meeting aimed at reconciling the two warring groups was convened between the OCPD and the stakeholders on 18th September, 2012 and several resolutions were arrived at. In addition, the DC for Kisumu East had met the stakeholders in a bid to stress the need to adhere to the resolutions arrived at, at the earlier meeting. Further, a meeting chaired by the Provincial Commissioner and which brought on board all the stakeholders, including leaders of the China and American groups was held on 20th September. 2012. The meeting resolved that there should be cessation of all forms of violence within the city. Apart from the above mentioned fora other meetings have been held by different organizations, including Peacenet, the District Peace Committees and local councillors, amongst others.
Finally, from the foregoing it is clear that the Provincial Administration officers have been impartial in the execution of their duties; it is evident that after every incident the police have managed to move in, arrest suspects and arraign them in court. I am appealing to the two hon. Members to join the Provincial Administration and security officers in coming up with a solution to this problem to avert further violence.
Mr. Speaker: Minister, have you given all your Statements? We will take requests for clarifications beginning with hon. Olago.
Hon. Members, please, try and restrain yourselves from approaching the Chair. I have had too many visits to the Speaker’s position to a point that I am hardly able to follow proceedings. My computer, sometimes, gets full.
Mr. Olago: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the facts, as set out by the Minister, are basically superficial, because they do not go to the depth of this issue that took place in Kisumu. It pains me as a Member of Parliament that, for the last one-and-a-half years, we have been preaching peace in Kisumu and assuring all residents that the violence that they witnessed in 2008 would never happen again. However, just when we thought we had succeeded, this happened.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the PPO and the OCPD are on record as having said that this violence was instigated by some politicians, without saying which politicians. It is very clear to him that the issue of security should not be politicized. If it is a politician who is instigating violence, that politician should be arrested and charged in court. In the present circumstances, for the police to politicize the issue and blame politicians, but not make any arrests, simply means that they are not willing to perform their duties. In this case, it is clear that the only politician they are referring to is based in Kisumu, and this is the one he has named as Onyango Oloo; nobody else. Under these circumstances, could the Minister tell this House clearly what action is being taken to deal with this particular politician who is inciting people in Kisumu?
Mr. Njuguna: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is notable that during the commotion in Kisumu innocent traders lost their property worth Kshs4.4 million. What measures is the Government taking to compensate these innocent traders?
Mr. Speaker: Order Minister! We will take one more.
Mr. Oyugi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Minister tell us whether it is true or not that both the District Security Committee (DSC) and Provincial Security Committee (PSC) are composed of members from a certain region in Kenya? If it is so, is it true that they are biased towards a certain group, either China or American? What is the Minister doing to create a balance in both the PSC and the DSC?
Mr. Speaker: Minister, we have to accommodate two more because these are Members from that diaspora.
Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I notice that the Minister has given a very comprehensive answer, but he has very conveniently avoided the Question that hon. Shakeel asked about Mr. Onyango Oloo. I would like the Minister to confirm if he knows this Onyango Oloo, and if he is, in any way, the Secretary-General of TNA, or he is a different Onyango Oloo.
Mr. Pesa: Mr. Speaker, Sir, in his answer, the Minister said that the PPO had said that there was a politician based in Nairobi. What action is he going to take against the PPO who has refused to arrest this politician, who is based in Nairobi?
The Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security (Mr. ole Metito): Speaker, Sir, the question asked by hon. Olago and hon. Odhiambo-Mabona is the same. They wanted to know why Mr. Oloo Onyango has not been arrested. In my statement, I said that upon investigation, there was no evidence linking Mr. Oloo to this violence. I also appeal to anybody who has evidence to provide it now that the three incidents are in court.
As to whether I know Mr. Oloo and whether he is the Secretary-General of TNA, it is true that the Secretary-General of TNA is called Mr. Onyango Oloo. But I do not know if this particular one is the TNA Secretary-General. There are so many Onyango Oloos in this Republic. So, it might not necessarily be him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to respond to hon. Njuguna’s question on compensation. All these cases are in court for the reason of destruction of this property; I cannot confirm that the Government will compensate those whose property was destroyed during demonstrations. Let us wait for the outcome of the cases and see where the costs of these cases will fall.
The MP for Ndhiwa, hon. Neto Oyugi, asked about the composition of the security team in that region. I may not have the details of who is who in the security team in that region. However, members of the security team are civil servants and they can work anywhere in the country. They are not supposed to be partial in anywhere. Whatever composition of the team is, that is not a reason for being partial or aligning itself to any group.
Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this House that the composition of the security team does not matter when by law the composition matters? By both the Constitution and the National Cohesion and Integration Act, you cannot have more than two-thirds members of the same ethnic community. Is he in order to mislead this House?
The Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security (Mr. ole Metito): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not said that the composition does not matter. I have said that I will check what the composition is. I have said that whatever the composition is currently, it does not give that security team any leeway to be aligned to any group at all. So, I will check that, but whatever the composition, they are supposed to exercise their duties and responsibilities with utmost impartiality. Hon. Pesa talked about the PPO, Kisumu, who was obstructing or refusing to arrest the politician in Nairobi. I do not have that information, but I will check. If you look at what I initially said, there was no evidence linking this man to the violence. So, if evidence had been brought forward and somebody refused to arrest him, then I will take action against that person.
Mr. Olago: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister has said that there is no evidence that there is a politician who is involved in these skirmishes. But the PPO is on record as having said in general terms that the skirmishes were being instigated by politicians without mentioning who they are. It is a fact there is only one politician. Is it in order for him to say that he is not aware of who this is when his PPO says that he knows?
The Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security (Mr. ole Metito): Mr. Speaker, Sir, when a general statement like that is made, that this violence is instigated by politicians, politicians are not only those who are vying for Parliamentary seats or the sitting Members of Parliament. The suspects who were arraigned in court could be having political ambitions. We should allow the due course of law to take place.
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Post by nereah on Oct 30, 2012 10:28:24 GMT 3
abdulmote ;D
you win my admiration with your grasp of issues on the ground. your take and conspiracy theory by one of our respected members in jukwaa were shared during a dinner hosted in my honour last night by a muhoroni based farmer whose father is a retired anglican cleric.
i would have loved to add more but i am swept on my feet by the america elections which means everything to those of us who believe its outcome would largely determine future of this country.
my heart,mind and soul is from now henceforth in the storm tossed america until the count of the last vote. see you then. ;D
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Post by b6k on Oct 30, 2012 13:21:53 GMT 3
According to the police (Nyanza PPO) as per Citizen at 1, yesterday's attack on Kwega was a robbery & not politically instigated. The deceased & his wife were on their way to bank KES 1.2 million when the thugs attacked. They took off with the money.
That's a very effecient investgation by the mboys given they spent the better part of yesterday quelling rioters. Did someone say a G3 rifle was involved in the shooting? Hmmm...
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Post by kamalet on Oct 30, 2012 13:42:11 GMT 3
The apparent assasination is being blamed on the now feared China Squad which is affiliated to a leading political party and was named in parliament by Internal Security minister as receiving sponsorship from a leading presidential contender. Phil, This is what you said in Reply#2. You brought in the name of China Squad and it is very rich some characters to claim the eureka moment of catching out Kamale letting the cat out of the bag. I called you out and told you it is nonesense to claim politics and even alluded at the point of TNA not having an interest in killing an ODM candidate with sufficient reasons. YOU introduced the political angle so you cannot run away from it. But then it must surely embarrass you that even the ODM report did not mention a political motive and the report by police in Kisumu this morning that it was a normal (??) robbery as the couple was carrying 1.2 million shillings to the bank. Perhaps you will learn not to run and call political motive everytime! Finally another lie that you peddled was that the Minister of Internal Security had confirmed that the gang had received sponsorship from a leading presidential candidate. This is something you had previously repeated in Jukwaa. You then bring us a copy of the hansard reporting on the last incident when some Luo MPs tried to associate the gang to TNAs Onyango Oloo a statement that was denied by the minister rather than the confirmation you allege the minister made. I will not even ask you to apologise for these errors......the truth leaves you sufficiently naked!!!
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2012 13:51:21 GMT 3
Kamale
This is an open forum where people can read and make their own conclusions about what is published by members.
You unwittingly connected TNA to China Gang. I did not.
You also were somewhat idiotic to suggest ODM competitors eliminated a potential competitor, since this is a man who had previously won and denied the ODM ticket.
The minister's statement is also straight forward. It backs up what I said earlier. My question still stands. If minister has intelligence implicating certain political individuals in the Kisumu violence why has he not taken decisive action - like he has done for the MRC and Tana River down at the coast?
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Post by podp on Oct 30, 2012 14:50:52 GMT 3
Kamale This is an open forum where people can read and make their own conclusions about what is published by members. You unwittingly connected TNA to China Gang. I did not. You also were somewhat idiotic to suggest ODM competitors eliminated a potential competitor, since this is a man who had previously won and denied the ODM ticket. The minister's statement is also straight forward. It backs up what I said earlier. My question still stands. If minister has intelligence implicating certain political individuals in the Kisumu violence why has he not taken decisive action - like he has done for the MRC and Tana River down at the coast? the problem(s) our Rulers need to be made to address in the near future when we elect Leaders are basically 2. 1. governance an euphemism of corruption, and 2. unemployment especially among our youth on youth unemployment and in particular at Kisumu see
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Post by kamalet on Oct 30, 2012 15:04:04 GMT 3
Kamale This is an open forum where people can read and make their own conclusions about what is published by members. You unwittingly connected TNA to China Gang. I did not. You also were somewhat idiotic to suggest ODM competitors eliminated a potential competitor, since this is a man who had previously won and denied the ODM ticket. The minister's statement is also straight forward. It backs up what I said earlier. My question still stands. If minister has intelligence implicating certain political individuals in the Kisumu violence why has he not taken decisive action - like he has done for the MRC and Tana River down at the coast? Now compare your own comments and those of Mzee: Utter rubbish and cheap propaganda. Yes, there has been violence since Uhuru visited the lakeside town of Kisumu. Yes, there have been skirmishes since then but none is sponsored by ODM as some in the video want to make believe. Infact pictures of burnt vehicles and kiosks were taken way back in 2007. There are two newly formed political gangs in Kisumu. A pro TNA gang called “China” that is based in Kondele and Obunga areas of the town and an anti China gang known as “America” based around the Kisumu bus terminal but has members drawn from Nyalenda , Ondiek, Arina, Manyatta areas. It’s important to remember that these gangs were none existent before Uhuru Kenyatta and his TNA came riding in town. It’s also worth noting the William Ruto (ODM greatest critic) and Musalia Mudavadi have both vigorously campaigned in Kisumu without incident. My conclusion is that this is a TNA precipitated violence orchestrated from the top to tarnish ODM and its party leaders. Thanks to the BOSS deep pockets. Why does violence follow Uhuru whenever he goes? We the people of Kisumu will defend the town from malicious propaganda that began way back in the 70´s when Jomo Kenyatta was roughed up and driven away from the town never to return. Thank you @mzeeIn other words, the violence in Kisumu is sponsored by TNA which is was founded and is led by Uhuru Kenyatta. I am waiting for people who have never even been to Kisumu to start spewing uninformed responses to this fine and very clear rebutal by @mzee. These forms part of the deliberate moves by TNA to paint ODM as a party of violence. It is barbaric as it is cheap. Phil Exactly what were you and Mzee talking about on 25th September in the thread above? You cannot pretend that you just discovered that China gang is related to TNA and Uhuru Kenyatta on the premise that I unwittingly let the cat out of the bag and both of you should be ashamed of yourselves! I shall leave you with these words from Jakaswanga on the same thread Thank you @mzeeIn other words, the violence in Kisumu is sponsored by TNA which is was founded and is led by Uhuru Kenyatta. I am waiting for people who have never even been to Kisumu to start spewing uninformed responses to this fine and very clear rebutal by @mzee. These forms part of the deliberate moves by TNA to paint ODM as a party of violence. It is barbaric as it is cheap. TO THOSE WHO MAY WANT A CONSIDERED REVIEW OF THE SAID Mzee and Phil are not interested in anything other than the partisan nonsense of ethno bullshit. Because that is always the subtext of ODM vs TNA.Lets get somethings clear about Kisumu, and the business of mercenary political activity. How does her streets operate with respect to organised gangs for hire, GANGS whose brief, in the absence of heavy cash-flows generated by political campaigns in election seasons, is theft, extortion and petty-gang related crimes. [Some gangs specialize in auto-related thefts, others electronics, others pick-pocketry, others tuktuk 'joy-riding' in the dark. Etc etc. [the worst punitive gang is the one said to singles out women to be punished by rape].But, what happens then, when a non-ODM politician wants to visit Kisumu? Mzee, our Kisumu correspondent whose word is divine to ODM house-propagandist phil, seems to have reasons to pretend ignorance of this, so let me give an authoritative posit. They are called brokers --note the commercially appropriate technical word. They are known, with 'offices' around the stage [stend], Kondele, and Kamas. These are ' organised' men who, lets put it in dholuo, goyo-ndara gad'! They 'even-out' the street. For a price. [Anybody who has studied elections in Sicily during the post-war Socialists and Christian Democrats dichotomous rule of Italy, may find a parallel; so too Boston and New-York politics in relations to the American mafia --goyo ndara gad! securing the street first!]These brokers run a business, Kisumu being officially ODM, these brokers are ODM affliates to control and enjoy the free cash of their political enemies in a laugh. In the case of Uhuru Kenyatta coming to Kisumu, one of the chief brokers was an ODM party official. REASON: BUSINESS. Uhuru Kenyatta is a man of deep pockets, and that would be too much money, the greedy thought, for the wrong people to control!! He then moved on to sideline the TNA facilitator, and threaten him. But there were many vultures interested in this carcass in town. And this decision, fired by greed, of an ODM party official to enter into brokerage and take an unfair cut, would later lead to the deadly fall-out. One must also remember that the brokers have contacts in every campaign, that is they hawk their services. This is business. AS THE CAMPAIGN PERIOD PICKS UP AND PROMISES TO BE A SEASON OF RICH PICKINGS, THE MONOPOLY OF THE TRADITIONAL ODM AFFLIATED BROKERS, IS UNDER CHALLENGE. HOW DO YOU BREAK GANG MONOPOLIES OF A MARKET? NEVER HEARD OF ONE THAT HAPPENED WITHOUT VIOLENCE! Gangs are organising under new leaders to increase their take, and be independent of the monolithic machine. This can not happen without " ng'ane we deya" [bila kupigana]. It is the threat embedded in the emergence of INDEPENDENT GANGS in KISUMU which has caused a campaign by ODM strategists to maintain their monopoly. Give a friendly gang or gangs more firepower, and thus the rumours of CUBA! And the other gang threatened to look for equally powerful allies! [this was read as TNA! and NISS!] to which Mzee refers above. EXTRA: the violence which followed recent UK visit --YES, there was violence, and several business kiosks of the TNA facilitator were destroyed [ not 68 though!], and beatings did indeed occur!--- was a quarrel about the money from TNA which was paid out to the brokers community to facilitate the visit. Wild figures started to fly around, and the money reaching the urchins was peanuts. Meaning there soon developed a feeling of ' okwalwa' --we have been ripped off! more tension. A financial dispute where no books are kept! lets say the gangs of Kisumu went to war, like so many excited chicken fighting over millet sprinkled by Uhuru Kenyatta.Mzee, if you have reasons to want to hide the rotten dynamics of Kisumu, do it elsewhere, where none exist who understand the urban sociology of Kisumu. A hand to mouth economy for young semi-schooled youth who entertained notions of a different life, of economic progress. Instead they are locked up in poorly-paid back-breaking construction dailies, testicle-smashing bodaboda bikes and motors, brain-meling jua-kali artisanry, as they watch a small clique indulging in theft-funded opulence. They then organise into gangs, and the trade is EXTORTION. The political campaign season is big business. When that dies down, the ordinary residents of Kisumu will be their culprits. Pala mipiagono ema nong' adi as we say. --The gangs we use in our political purposes, will in the end turn around against us. TNA sponsored gang violence in Kisumu ;D? joluogi kara wigi yot nyiewo mondo n' gato otuggo ndi! So easy to confuse with a few shillings are those Luos of Kisumu!? really?
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2012 15:17:38 GMT 3
The more you try to run away from your postings the more it looks silly. Keep me away from it especially at this time when we in ODM fraternity are in mourning.
Actually you now become irrelevant digging up unrelated threads/postings to this current one. It derails the topic at hand because this was never about TNA and China gang.
Now back to the issue at hand, news is that Shem Onyango Kwega's wife has also succumbed to her injuries and was pronounced dead at 8am this morning.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 30, 2012 15:27:08 GMT 3
The more you try to run away from your postings the more it looks silly. Keep me away from it especially at this time when we in ODM fraternity are in mourning. Actually you now become irrelevant digging up unrelated threads/postings to this current one. It derails the topic at hand because this was never about TNA and China gang. Now back to the issue at hand, news is that Shem Onyango Kwega's wife has also succumbed to her injuries and was pronounced dead at 8am this morning. Phil Not so fast! You made an accusation...accept you were wrong for accusing me of linking China gang to TNA. Accept you were also wrong in bringing in a political motive for the death of the chap whilst it is now confirmed that it was a commercially related murder (I said it first!) Imagining that if you drop in the death of the guys wife changes anything ...you are very wrong.
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Post by b6k on Oct 30, 2012 16:45:25 GMT 3
Well Mwalimumkuu called it. Derailing the thread is one of the fall back positions. Truth be told Jakaswanga's analysis on the gang situation in Kisumu (with its inherent commercial angle) makes a lot more sense than TNA controlling gang-bangers by remote control or ATM cards. There is a world of a difference from purchasing safe passage for a day (wise move if you don't want to don construction helmets like Tuju) & running the racket...
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Post by mank on Oct 30, 2012 17:29:21 GMT 3
Kamale
This is an open forum where people can read and make their own conclusions about what is published by members.
You unwittingly connected TNA to China Gang. I did not. ... But it was you Phil who first claimed that the shooting was being connected to China Gang. Who was making such connections?
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2012 18:29:54 GMT 3
Kamale
This is an open forum where people can read and make their own conclusions about what is published by members.
You unwittingly connected TNA to China Gang. I did not. ... But it was you Phil who first claimed that the shooting was being connected to China Gang. Who was making such connections? Not at all. It was Kamale who indirectly did that.
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Post by reporter911 on Oct 30, 2012 19:07:43 GMT 3
But it was you Phil who first claimed that the shooting was being connected to China Gang. Who was making such connections? Not at all. It was Kamale who indirectly did that. Onyango Oloo of "TNT" should be checked up more closely, has anyway demanded his phone records from Airtel or safaricom e.t.c ? that might shock people.. the OPP mentioned his name.. they should investigate him I suggest ODM moves very fast with their best It group to demand Onyango Oloo's phone records and of his colleague.. something smells like a rat about all this saga.. which Politician is linked to China Gang? start from there.. PHONE RECORDS.. is the best way to begin..
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Post by joblesscorner on Oct 30, 2012 19:34:07 GMT 3
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Post by mank on Oct 30, 2012 19:55:15 GMT 3
But it was you Phil who first claimed that the shooting was being connected to China Gang. Who was making such connections? Not at all.
It was Kamale who indirectly did that. No Phil, it was you in the first "reply" after Mzee made the opening post. I have gone back to the thread and Kamale's post comes several "replies" below yours. Here is yours, the one I am asking you about (with a highlight of your China gang claim): Sam Kwega shot, probably dead, in Kondele ... More to come Sam Onyango Kwega is the Kisumu Town West ODM Chairman
He was badly injured after gunmen ambushed his car and shot him and his wife.
This has led to unprecedented public demonstrations in town and right now huge crowds have are standing outside Kisumu's AGA KHAN hospital where admitted in ICU.
Unconfirmed reports are that Mr. Kwega has since succumbed to his injuries and official doctor's announcement is awaited.
The apparent assasination is being blamed on the now feared China Squad which is affiliated to a leading political party and was named in parliament by Internal Security minister as receiving sponsorship from a leading presidential contender.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 30, 2012 21:34:34 GMT 3
Shukran Mank! I tried and gave up pointing it out that the first mention of china gang was early in the thread. Anyway I have a feeling this is the last we hear of Phil on this.
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Post by enigma on Oct 30, 2012 21:52:30 GMT 3
Kamale,
China Squad has been linked to TNA which is linked to Onyango Oloo who is linked to Uhuru Kenyatta. What are you defending?
It is gang warfare whose motivation is both Political and Economic (dual). Lets not be getting your knickers in a twist.
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2012 21:53:38 GMT 3
Shukran Mank! I tried and gave up pointing it out that the first mention of china gang was early in the thread. Anyway I have a feeling this is the last we hear of Phil on this. On the contrary, am very much around. You should not misconstrue my respect for man-K. In solidarity with ODM, I want to avoid engaging you on this at a time we are in mourning. Please allow us to bury our dead in peace. However, before I sign off, I note you and man-K are talking about two different issues. You deny linking feared China Gang to TNA and this is what other Jukwaaist called you out on. man-k on the other hand is talking about who first introduced the China Gang into this thread. Spot the difference, and more importantly please distinguish between you and me, who is backing up their statements adequately. You claimed this was internally an ODM war and I told you this was having strong links to politics in the volatile town. Metito seems to agree with me.
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Post by mank on Oct 30, 2012 23:13:48 GMT 3
Shukran Mank! I tried and gave up pointing it out that the first mention of china gang was early in the thread. Anyway I have a feeling this is the last we hear of Phil on this. On the contrary, am very much around. You should not misconstrue my respect for man-K. In solidarity with ODM, I want to avoid engaging you on this at a time we are in mourning. Please allow us to bury our dead in peace. However, before I sign off, I note you and man-K are talking about two different issues. You deny linking feared China Gang to TNA and this is what other Jukwaaist called you out on. man-k on the other hand is talking about who first introduced the China Gang into this thread. Spot the difference, and more importantly please distinguish between you and me, who is backing up their statements adequately. You claimed this was internally an ODM war and I told you this was having strong links to politics in the volatile town. Metito seems to agree with me [/size].[/quote] Phil, You are indeed correct, that there are two issues running here. however I think they are related. I cannot authoritatively say, but I think Kamale simply made an extension into older discussions you may have held,once you alleged that there are claims that the shooting is orchestrated by a so-called China Squad. So perhaps if you could address the issue of where those claims were coming from then we can go next to Kamale's issue (if it remains necessary at such a stage).
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 30, 2012 23:35:14 GMT 3
alternative Kisumu sources. Kwega was on a scheduled, routine bank-run. To bank the proceeds of a night business. Plausible theory is he was 'cased' by a specialist squad: this 'casing' is a term from Nairobi police ---adopted from the West, and used to refer to criminals studying especially supermarket proprietors/managers, when they transport the cash-catch to the banks, and organise a hit. Those were the days when armed, certified transport was still in infancy. These days it is the rule in the city. ----------------------------- WHY THE COPS CAN NOT BE THAT MICHUKI AGGRESSIVE IN KISUMU! Police in Kisumu will tell you tales. Here is what one cop told me when I put it to him that the feeling on the streets was they are lacklustre, thereby encouraging crime in Kisumu. And folks are nostalgic for alleged tough guy Wanyama, who is happy to have left behind the snake's pit of a lakeside town. The man told me the trouble started when they realised there was a class of big people with political connections who were untouchable. There was a racket in stolen cars across Kenya, stored in Kisumu, then most of them ferried across the border, to Sudan and DRC. This was big business with big people around town. And the cops who wanted to get get to the bottom of the game, were threatened with banishment to Siberia, that is near Alshabab territory. Cops have to read lineages and court clouts of culprits in Kisumu before they make their moves. That can lead to indecision and paralysis. 2. When it comes to China vs America; with one gang allegedly allied to TNA which could produce the next president, and the other allied to ODM [which too could produce the next president] and being patronised at arms by a man with the other name of Gooding Jr. as his nom de guerre, a crack down which goes to the heart of the matter requires a very foolhardy police force. This is a time to hold ones cards close to ones chest as the dice still rolls. It means the cops could be in a wait and see mode. 3. It would be politically insane for cops to go around Luoland on a shoot to kill mission ala Michuki contra Mungiki in Gikuyuland. And Kisumu is not Kwale nor Tana, where you can send the state thugs called GSU to go and rape and break bones, ati rudisharing hali ya usalama. So the stalemate and inertia continues. PS: ---In a fit of awesome stupidity, some MP from Kisumu intimates one, Onyango Oloo, no further specifications , is so powerful he orders Kisumu cops around!? Somebody help us Luos! we lost our famed brains somewhere!
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Post by kamalet on Oct 31, 2012 8:31:39 GMT 3
Kamale, China Squad has been linked to TNA which is linked to Onyango Oloo who is linked to Uhuru Kenyatta. What are you defending? It is gang warfare whose motivation is both Political and Economic (dual). Lets not be getting your knickers in a twist. Enigma ...and who linked China squad to TNA? I am only denying creating the link as this was clearly done by Mzee and Phil. There is really nothing to defend! (apologies to Einstein for using his name in error earlier and happy to correct this. Thanks to ManK for pointing it out)
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Post by kamalet on Oct 31, 2012 8:36:15 GMT 3
Shukran Mank! I tried and gave up pointing it out that the first mention of china gang was early in the thread. Anyway I have a feeling this is the last we hear of Phil on this. On the contrary, am very much around. You should not misconstrue my respect for man-K. In solidarity with ODM, I want to avoid engaging you on this at a time we are in mourning. Please allow us to bury our dead in peace. However, before I sign off, I note you and man-K are talking about two different issues. You deny linking feared China Gang to TNA and this is what other Jukwaaist called you out on. man-k on the other hand is talking about who first introduced the China Gang into this thread. Spot the difference, and more importantly please distinguish between you and me, who is backing up their statements adequately. You claimed this was internally an ODM war and I told you this was having strong links to politics in the volatile town. Metito seems to agree with me. So let us clear the air here. You introduced the link of China Gang in this thread. You introduced the link of China Gang to TNA in your posts of 25th September - I provided the link to the thread. Kamale being not too wise nor too foolish joined the two points and in this thread whacked you for suggesting that TNA was involved in the violence via your China Gang link!
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Post by phil on Oct 31, 2012 9:37:45 GMT 3
I will ignore @kamale for now. Kicks of a dying horse! We cannot go round and round in cricles over one thing!
ODM has demanded a total overhaul of the provincial security set-up in Kisumu and the wider Nyanza region.
Picture this: The Kisumu District Security Committee (DSC) and Nyanza Provincial Security Committee (PSC) are composed of members from a certain region in Kenya. (ref to Hansard).
Is this a tenable arrangement in this political season? Not it is not. In fact Kisumu residents are taking action intot heir own hands after the police decided to openly take sides with a certain politically correct vigilante/gang.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 31, 2012 10:28:13 GMT 3
I will ignore @kamale for now. Kicks of a dying horse! We cannot go round and round in cricles over one thing! ODM has demanded a total overhaul of the provincial security set-up in Kisumu and the wider Nyanza region. Picture this: The Kisumu District Security Committee (DSC) and Nyanza Provincial Security Committee (PSC) are composed of members from a certain region in Kenya. (ref to Hansard). Is this a tenable arrangement in this political season? Not it is not. In fact Kisumu residents are taking action intot heir own hands after the police decided to openly take sides with a certain politically correct vigilante/gang. Now here is a key reason why ODM should not be anywhere near 10 feet of power!! These guys are still stuck in the tribal small world that wants to tie government officials in bantustans. So I checked the security & police chiefs in Kisumu to see if Phil is telling the truth: PC Nyanza - Francis Mutie PPO Nyanza - Joseph ole Tito PCIO Nyanza - Joseph Mugwanja Kisumu East DC - Willy Cheboi Kisumu OCPD - Musa Kangoli Kisumu DCIO - Henry Ndombi I am not sure which is this one community that Phil is talking about....but perhaps he can tell me where I am wrong! If you make a claim, try and back it up!
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