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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 6:21:38 GMT 3
Phil, You mean how TNA is linked to the murder of Shem Kwega, or to the general violence? Your allegation was that Shem Kwega's murder is being blamed on China squad. That is the allegation I have asked you to subtantiate - tell us who is connecting that murder with China Squad, or at least give us some reasonable basis for making such a connection. Here you seem to be talking about the general violence in Kisumu, which may not necessarily explain the murder of Shem Kwega, and which is not what I inquired aobut. Infact only one of the stories you link to in this response alleges knowledge of the likely organizational backgrounds of the man's murderers, and that background does not match the one you alleged. In my view we should not be making any breaking allegations that we are not ready to back up. If we are to entertain that tendency, then Jukwaa will be nothing but a gossip board. I hate to be part of such! You can urgue and hate all you want.. I bet you can't point out to Kenyans today who gave the order to the police to shoot and Kill innocent Kenyans in Nairobi, Kisimu, Rift valley, Western Province and coast province can you? but yet the world watched live coverage policing shooting and killing innocent Kenyans at close range.. CAN YOU GIVE US AN ANSWER? Now going back to the China Squad even the MP's brought it up in parliament question period they said the police had named one Onyango Oloo"TNT" trusted front man in regards to China Squad which is known by every Kenyan with common sense not that they "TNT" were hiding about the connection to them when they went to campaign earlier own in Kisumu.. the question remains whose blooded hand is controlling the China Squad in Kisumu and who is pouring money and guns as rumour has it to these Mungiki style created gang? they can run but they will have nowhere to hide soon... Kisumu residents including Kenyans have no time for blood letting suckers.. they will be flashed out pole pole!! NO REPEAT OF 2007 IS GOING TO BE ACCEPTED BY ANY KENYAN..
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 6:42:38 GMT 3
Are there deliberate attempts to foment conflicts and subvert the Constitution? By MAINA KIAI
Posted Friday, November 2 2012 at 20:06 At dawn on Tuesday, October 29, Samburu morans raided a Turkana village in Samburu seeking to recover about 400 cattle that had been stolen on October 20. They were repulsed and 12 Samburu morans were killed in the attempt.
Since then, the State has reinforced security personnel to address the rising tensions and conflicts.
It is tempting to see this as part of “normal” cattle rustling between pastoral communities. However, witness accounts suggest that this is not just about the typical absence of State security in these remote areas where people have been forced — with the blessings and arms from the State — to protect themselves.
What is emerging is a pattern that is far more dangerous as we head into elections, especially with the huge unanswered questions about devolution and how it will work.
It seems deliberately calculated to raise ethnic conflicts and other tensions, perhaps as a way to rubbish devolution and the Constitution, hoping that citizens will demand strong-arm tactics and more centralised power, thus retaining the status quo.
Indeed it is similar to former President Moi’s self-serving prediction that multi-partyism would lead to conflict, which his regime then initiated and implemented as ethnic cleansing in the Rift Valley in the 1990s.
Consider some facts. After the October 20 cattle rustling, the (illegal) County Commissioner in Samburu asked the community not to intervene, saying the government would recover the animals in three days.
Literally everyone knew that the Turkana had done the rustling and that the animals were being kept at the village which has about 1,000 inhabitants. The County Commissioner also suspended three chiefs and sub-chiefs from the Turkana side and summoned a local councillor for interrogation.
On October 21, a team of about 30 security officials went to the Turkana village and engaged the inhabitants in a five-hour gunbattle before it was repulsed. The security team even had a police helicopter hovering above.
With the failure of this operation, rather than seek reinforcements, the officials instead turned to Samburu morans, seeking them out at Baragoi and tasking them to recover the animals.
And as planned and is well known in the community and security circles, the Samburu morans attacked the Turkana village on October 29 but were also repulsed, leading to the death of 12 morans. Only after this did the security officials seek and get reinforcements.
In Kisumu, police locked up innocent, hard-working citizens in a container and hurled teargas into it — burning three to death — and then claimed that the use of force was justified as a mob had planned to attack the police station. The station is a distance from the container.
The sum effect of these actions and omissions is to increase tensions, feelings of revenge and conflicts. And it comes on the heels of events in Tana River, which were allowed to fester to awful proportions, right under the noses of the police, who decided to do anything, leading to more than 50 deaths.
The Mombasa tensions also fit into this pattern, where a professed non-violent group is being accused by the police and the media of every single violent action at the coast — in a manner similar to 2006-7 where every violent criminal act in Nairobi and central Kenya was labelled “Mungiki”, leading to the executions of about 1,000 youth, many of whom were simply unable to raise the extortion fees demanded by corrupt police officers.
So confident are the police that they feel no shame in bringing to court a suspect who has been obviously thoroughly beaten while in custody, sure that their strong-arm tactics will find public favour, and that unreformed remnants in the Judiciary will not question them.
But why would the State foment conflicts and tensions as we go into elections? In the 1990s, the initial purpose was to deter multi-partyism; but once it took hold, violence was then used to intimidate voters and rig the elections by engendering a climate of fear and intimidation.
Are we seeing a repeat of the 1990s but this time also with the aim of subverting the Constitution that the powerful do not like?
mkiai2000@yahoo.comwww.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/1610180/-/koiihyz/-/index.html This is what Kenyans have been pointing out all along why now? ask the those leaders who have been busy crisscrossing the country preaching hate and hiring thugs to disrupt the country as rumour has it... KIBAKI & CO ? MUTHAURA AT HIS OLD GAMES YET AGAIN.. WHO EXACTLY IS IN CONTROL OF THE SECURITY IN KENYA? IN 2007 WASN'T IT STATEHOUSE, MUTHAURA & CO ( example "shoot to Kill Order if Kenyans recall.. innocent Kenyans being shot at close range by police shown live on national Media) seems to most Kenyans that a pact has been laid out " if some people don't get their way then they will make sure Kenya burns to ashes" and those screaming and chest thumping in their support think that if Kenya were to burn they will be safe!! what utter nonsense! the big deal is Kenyans are awake and will not allow a repeat of 2007 when some communities using thugs were allowed to slaughter thousands of innocent Kenyans... TIME UP.. Kenyans must stand up and stop these madness.. "ALL THE bribed MONEY IN THE WORLD" THIS IS POINTED AT THOSE ACCEPTING TO BE BRIBED, BOUGHT AND PAID OFF .. AS RUMOURS HAS IT.. IF AND WHEN THE EVIL BEINGS DECIDED TO BURN UP KENYA.. YOU WILL NEVER ENJOY THAT MONEY PAID TO YOU IN BRIEF CASES.. .. bure kabisa.. Their disruption plans started in areas 1. Mombasa 2. Turkana 3. Tana 4. Kisumu And soon it will be in your own neighborhood.. some may think that these incidents are not connected !! A REMINDER THAT THE STATE SECURITY & HIRED THUGS WERE USED IN 2007!!! WHAT MAKES KENYANS THINK THAT THESE SAME THUGS IN GOVERNMENT WILL NOT DO THE SAME THIS TIME ROUND!! THEY MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE THEY BURN KENYA TO ASHES.. !! ivyu tu.
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Post by mank on Nov 3, 2012 7:07:54 GMT 3
Phil, You mean how TNA is linked to the murder of Shem Kwega, or to the general violence? Your allegation was that Shem Kwega's murder is being blamed on China squad. That is the allegation I have asked you to subtantiate - tell us who is connecting that murder with China Squad, or at least give us some reasonable basis for making such a connection. Here you seem to be talking about the general violence in Kisumu, which may not necessarily explain the murder of Shem Kwega, and which is not what I inquired aobut. Infact only one of the stories you link to in this response alleges knowledge of the likely organizational backgrounds of the man's murderers, and that background does not match the one you alleged. In my view we should not be making any breaking allegations that we are not ready to back up. If we are to entertain that tendency, then Jukwaa will be nothing but a gossip board. I hate to be part of such! You can urgue and hate all you want.. I bet you can't point out to Kenyans today who gave the order to the police to shoot and Kill innocent Kenyans in Nairobi, Kisimu, Rift valley, Western Province and coast province can you? but yet the world watched live coverage policing shooting and killing innocent Kenyans at close range.. CAN YOU GIVE US AN ANSWER? Now going back to the China Squad even the MP's brought it up in parliament question period they said the police had named one Onyango Oloo"TNT" trusted front man in regards to China Squad which is known by every Kenyan with common sense not that they "TNT" were hiding about the connection to them when they went to campaign earlier own in Kisumu.. the question remains whose blooded hand is controlling the China Squad in Kisumu and who is pouring money and guns as rumour has it to these Mungiki style created gang? they can run but they will have nowhere to hide soon... Kisumu residents including Kenyans have no time for blood letting suckers.. they will be flashed out pole pole!! NO REPEAT OF 2007 IS GOING TO BE ACCEPTED BY ANY KENYAN.. You overrate yourself to imagine that anyone has the impulse to waste hating you. Find out what the subject is and stop writing about the whole world when addressing a limited issue. I really don't have the time for your kind of mind right now.
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 7:25:10 GMT 3
You can urgue and hate all you want.. I bet you can't point out to Kenyans today who gave the order to the police to shoot and Kill innocent Kenyans in Nairobi, Kisimu, Rift valley, Western Province and coast province can you? but yet the world watched live coverage policing shooting and killing innocent Kenyans at close range.. CAN YOU GIVE US AN ANSWER? Now going back to the China Squad even the MP's brought it up in parliament question period they said the police had named one Onyango Oloo"TNT" trusted front man in regards to China Squad which is known by every Kenyan with common sense not that they "TNT" were hiding about the connection to them when they went to campaign earlier own in Kisumu.. the question remains whose blooded hand is controlling the China Squad in Kisumu and who is pouring money and guns as rumour has it to these Mungiki style created gang? they can run but they will have nowhere to hide soon... Kisumu residents including Kenyans have no time for blood letting suckers.. they will be flashed out pole pole!! NO REPEAT OF 2007 IS GOING TO BE ACCEPTED BY ANY KENYAN.. You overrate yourself to imagine that anyone has the impulse to waste hating you. Find out what the subject is and stop writing about the whole world when addressing a limited issue. I really don't have the time for your kind of mind right now. are the above allegations or views of the police and people on the ground in Kisumu "called the residents of kisumu" when the police shot and killed innocent Kenyans in broad daylight during the 2007-2008 elections the spin was the same as your spin here.. then people were asked to proof the connection between the police who claim the orders were given from above? who gave the shoot to Kill order to the police.. to date no answer has been forth coming maybe it will become clearer during the ICC cases.. Muthaura might shade some light on the saga.. Now here you are asking Phil to proof the connection between China Squad and Uhuru's "TNT" .. you protest too hard.. why not ask the police that mentioned Onyango Oloo "TNT" and the Politicians who wanted him questioned alah.. Kenyans are too intelligent to be fooled by those behind hired thugs this time round.. as Maina Kiai mentioned.. there is a connection to all the violence that is being carried out around the country.. heading to the 2013 election.. THOSE BEHIND IT MUST BE STOPPED! PERIOD! OFCOURSE KENYANS KNOW THAT THE COUNTRY'S SECURITY APPARATUS AND MEDIA WILL SPIN IT AS THUGS WERE INVOLVED KILLING SAM KWEGA FOR HIS MONEY!.. YUP! WHICH KENYANS WILL BELIEVE SUCH A LAME STORY? SAME SPIN IN 2007-2008 WHEN SOME POLITICIANS WERE ASSASSINATED.. IT IS STILL FRESH IN MOST KENYANS MINDS!!! ENUFF SAID! Jukwaa will never be a gossip blog.. members have their ears glued onto the ground... to get the latest news, independently instead of the usual kenya media mostly biased news..where there is smoke there is usually a fire thereafter..when some people refuse to accept facts they try to spin their own propaganda or insist on proof.. what proof? where is the proof connecting the all the police 2007-2008 shooting to the controller of security in Kenya? didn't they say the order come from above? who is these individual above? and to date the police are still mowing down innocent Kenyans with bullets! maybe you are on the wrong blog.. were you looking for mashada
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Post by mank on Nov 3, 2012 7:59:31 GMT 3
You overrate yourself to imagine that anyone has the impulse to waste hating you. Find out what the subject is and stop writing about the whole world when addressing a limited issue. I really don't have the time for your kind of mind right now. are the above allegations or views of the police and people on the ground in Kisumu "called the residents of kisumu" when the police shot and killed innocent Kenyans in broad daylight during the 2007-2008 elections the spin was the same as your spin here.. then people were asked to proof the connection between the police who claim the orders were given from above? who gave the shoot to Kill order to the police.. to date no answer has been forth coming maybe it will become clearer during the ICC cases.. Muthaura might shade some light on the saga.. Now here you are asking Phil to proof the connection between China Squad and Uhuru's "TNT" .. you protest too hard.. why not ask the police that mentioned Onyango Oloo "TNT" and the Politicians who wanted him questioned alah.. Kenyans are too intelligent to be fooled by those behind hired thugs this time round.. as Maina Kiai mentioned.. there is a connection to all the violence that is being carried out around the country.. heading to the 2013 election.. THOSE BEHIND IT MUST BE STOPPED! PERIOD! OFCOURSE KENYANS KNOW THAT THE COUNTRY'S SECURITY APPARATUS AND MEDIA WILL SPIN IT AS THUGS WERE INVOLVED KILLING SAM KWEGA FOR HIS MONEY!.. YUP! WHICH KENYANS WILL BELIEVE SUCH A LAME STORY? SAME SPIN IN 2007-2008 WHEN SOME POLITICIANS WERE ASSASSINATED.. IT IS STILL FRESH IN MOST KENYANS MINDS!!! ENUFF SAID! Jukwaa will never be a gossip blog.. members have their ears glued onto the ground... to get the latest news, independently instead of the usual kenya media mostly biased news..where there is smoke there is usually a fire thereafter..when some people refuse to accept facts they try to spin their own propaganda or insist on proof.. what proof? where is the proof connecting the all the police 2007-2008 shooting to the controller of security in Kenya? didn't they say the order come from above? who is these individual above? and to date the police are still mowing down innocent Kenyans with bullets! maybe you are on the wrong blog.. were you looking for mashada I would thank you for the assurance that Jukwaa will never be a gossip board if I was assured of your commitment to that assurance. Answering questions as they are asked is the sign of commitment I look for. ... where there is smoke there is usually a fire thereafter.. You might want to check that too ... the proverb you are trying to invoke is rather trivial in its science, and you are murdering that too!
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2012 14:55:43 GMT 3
someone from the lake told me the real term is " Omenda" hell knows where the term originates because he could not explain either. Kisumu has been quite peaceful and it is curious violence and robbery is creeping back at an alarming scale just before the elections. There was a police chief who went his way to deal with idle youths who had made it a habit of terrorising the town and its environs. And sure he brought sanity to kisumu he has since been transferred. I believe Its on this note that the residents are rioting against the police because they know their security can be guaranteed by the same police force if they were serious enough. Ouali, That information is correct. Pesa is also known as omenda in that region. Another [nick] name is omwuom; chung' being yet another, and others which derive from outer shores -- rupia, sendi,. A popular musician after a notorious song called 'manyo yor otonglo,' has managed to infuse the almost forgotten concept 'otonglo' with the new meaning of 'money'! Otonglo was a dime long ago when chingli [coins] could still buy something, even fare from Ksm to Nrb! Then coins became useless in purchasing power, and the word otonglo all but disappeared from dholuo lexicon --save for a market of a similar name near Kisumu. After the said song, the word is back in usage, as a reference to all money! I hope Abdulmote is indulged!
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2012 15:11:51 GMT 3
Not at all. It was Kamale who indirectly did that. Onyango Oloo of "TNT" should be checked up more closely, has anyway demanded his phone records from Airtel or safaricom e.t.c ? that might shock people.. the OPP mentioned his name.. they should investigate him I suggest ODM moves very fast with their best It group to demand Onyango Oloo's phone records and of his colleague.. something smells like a rat about all this saga.. which Politician is linked to China Gang? start from there.. PHONE RECORDS.. is the best way to begin.. A bit of deductive logic might help us. Two Onyango Oloos have been investigated. Ole Mtito of internal affairs confirms to the gang of Luo MPs baying in parliament for the unspecified Oloo's blood, that there infact has been an investigation into an unspecified Onyango Oloo, and the investigations revealed him innocent! Now, for deduction, did this moran who has succeeded Saitoti, have onother Onyango Oloo investigated, leaving out the one who everybody refers to as Jakondele, and who is the TNA SG?
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jeff
Full Member
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Post by jeff on Nov 3, 2012 15:14:59 GMT 3
The Pundit blowerswhistleUnconfirmed Reports..Olago Aluoch have been shot by gangs within kisumu!!It's alleged . My comment: Can someone confirm this?
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Post by phil on Nov 3, 2012 15:36:48 GMT 3
The Pundit blowerswhistleUnconfirmed Reports..Olago Aluoch have been shot by gangs within kisumu!!It's alleged . My comment: Can someone confirm this? This is very alarming. Am trying to confirm and will confirm shortly. What is happening to our country?
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2012 15:46:56 GMT 3
UNDERSTANDING GANGS EVERYWHERE, KISUMU AND PROPAGANDA.
Los Angeles boasts three of the most historic gangs in the USA, and the world. Bloods, Crips --the two are predominantly black; Mara Salvatrucha, the Latino ants, more famous as MS 13; and ABZ --Asian Boys Hardcore.
There is abundant urban sociological literature on this phenomenon. And I will always discuss the local gang problem of Kisumu, with these studies in mind. Not to mention several thorough works on Mungiki as a disenfranchised youth movement, unfortunately non by a Kenyan! And warning of its copycats thriving around the republic, in the event of maintained radical social inequality and economic dislocation.
For the most authoritative studies on the relationship between organised crime and politics, Sicily in Italy, and New York and Boston, featuring various branches of the Sicilian Mafia in the diaspora or not, will offer uncanny insights into the murk. --How politics can exist with organised crime. But when the balance tilts in favour of the crime syndicates, the result is the phenomenon which has been crystallized in Latin America, the Narco-State.
Now the USA and Italy are not Kenya, and neither is LA, NY, Boston nor Palermo Kisumu, but there are some things people do about the same everywhere. # You would be surprised at how similar all races screw, regardless of all talk of cultural diversity and specificity! And you would be surprised how similar police brutality is, whether your are a Burmese Karen, a Tibetan Chinese, a Hutu Rwandese, a Zimbabwean Ndebele, or a Kisumu tout confronting the other, state, in full authoritarian gear.
So I say a gang is essentially an economic outfit. It is a hybrid between a political party and a [commercial] company. It organises according to interests, class interests which may coincide with ethno-interests in the wider picture, and it organises too, according to sensible business interests. This multifarious complexity of gang 'culture' is why they can not be eradicated under conditions of social inequality. Action and reaction.
As material conditions continue to exist, to supply them with members, there is a gap in the 'market place' to be filled by gang entrepreneurs. Just like usually there is a democratic deficit in authoritarian dictatorships, that is filled by the resistance and clandestine organisation. Conflict is inherent is certain constellations, or imbalances, in the socio-economic order. And this would be the primary source to look for in Kisumu ---or the ghettos of LA and Chicago!
I can parry that definitely! ---------------------------------------------------------------- MONOPOLIES AND THEIR CONTRADICTIONS, BIRD'S EYE-VIEW!
A quick look at how monopolies work, first as systems in the abstract, and why they are doomed to internal collapse in the real world.
Renaissance as the dawn of enlightenment in which thinking is revolutionised, as the political order of the bourgeoisie achieves supremacy, identifies lack of competition as the greatest worm that eats away at the foundations of such a system, ... a system such as pretends to tend toward freedom and meritocracy of all levels. The contradiction being all power tends toward a monopoly, and toward vanquishing the opposition, by hook or crook.
To check this negative spiral, the concepts of checks and balances is authored. But humans being what we are, this is routinely ignored, with violent social conflict and wars coming in as corrective mechanisms.
Competition and freedom may be the best thing since the discovery of oral sex to your community or nation, but the truth is your community is likely to do everything to curtail both competition and freedom. Until rebellion explodes her.
Kisumu has been the political monopoly of ODM. And this has been a nationalist fervor, also compounded by the trauma of the 2007 snatch of the bone from our jaws. But the socio-economic reality is that, the nationalism can not bridge the gaps between the have-not jaluos, and their opulent brothers in party.
HIGHCLASS CHIC [/b][/size]! [/quote]
That is what gals from the upper echelons would say, when I arrive on a date wheeled by a boda boy!
BODABOY [/i]
Sir, these your women look at me with twitching nostrils, like I am some smelly worm being their eye sore[/size]![/quote]
This is the kind of exchange which reveals to me social distances which can not be bridged by nationalist fervor. And hints to me, when I hear of gangs specializing in rape as pudding, that some forms of crime are class revenge, more than anything else.
From a class perspective then, the Luo ODM class in power in Kisumu, reaping the benefits of mkate-nusu, is an elite dislocated from the wretched base. As they distribute business and positions amongst themselves, and in advance, count the new chicks to hatch in the coming presidency, the future looks very bright. And they are assuming this bonanza and the prospect of the coming bonus, has the same elating effect on all sections of the 'local' populace.
Nay, from the position of the wretched, the grueling poverty reminds this is an elite taking care of itself. As I was told, even as TNA and UK are demonised, Agwambo was on the phone daily to UK, and he never reveals to his base what they were discussing. [They were discussing business of course --the oil price was about to be raised, and they were discussing how best to make a killing for their business, campaigns being that expensive].
The emergence of alternative organisational forms, because of the natural limitations of a monopoly, is therefore a logical development. Some will be independent, some not, but because of the nature of power struggles, allies will be sought wherever they be found. Some ending in tears, others in profit. Short term or not.
The politicized period of campaigns is a catalysmic event, because of the[1] money available; [2] the strategic thinking of political operators which escalates the conflicts; [3] the role of propagandists in peddling lies and burying the truth; and [4] the emotive appeal to the paranoid instincts of ethno-nationalism to block the other! ------------------- NB: If I find the time this weekend, I will continue and write something on how the political monopoly of ODM in Kisumu sought to eliminate all centers of independent thinking. --Exactly the same thing others in Uhuru's court tried to do in his backyard when they declared he was the sole and true Muthamaki of MK! [--Gitobu facing mount Kenya kneeling on the tarmac. A machete on his neck for encouragement!]
Monopolies, they work the same everywhere, and lead the collective to the same grief!
I will be back.
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Post by phil on Nov 3, 2012 16:02:05 GMT 3
The Pundit blowerswhistleUnconfirmed Reports..Olago Aluoch have been shot by gangs within kisumu!!It's alleged . My comment: Can someone confirm this? This is very alarming. Am trying to confirm and will confirm shortly. What is happening to our country? jeffMalicious rumour. The honourable MP is alive and well at a funeral in Bondo. Ignore these !
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Post by mzee on Nov 3, 2012 17:43:05 GMT 3
Pathetic rumours by people who know zero about kisumu.
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 18:16:05 GMT 3
are the above allegations or views of the police and people on the ground in Kisumu "called the residents of kisumu" when the police shot and killed innocent Kenyans in broad daylight during the 2007-2008 elections the spin was the same as your spin here.. then people were asked to proof the connection between the police who claim the orders were given from above? who gave the shoot to Kill order to the police.. to date no answer has been forth coming maybe it will become clearer during the ICC cases.. Muthaura might shade some light on the saga.. Now here you are asking Phil to proof the connection between China Squad and Uhuru's "TNT" .. you protest too hard.. why not ask the police that mentioned Onyango Oloo "TNT" and the Politicians who wanted him questioned alah.. Kenyans are too intelligent to be fooled by those behind hired thugs this time round.. as Maina Kiai mentioned.. there is a connection to all the violence that is being carried out around the country.. heading to the 2013 election.. THOSE BEHIND IT MUST BE STOPPED! PERIOD! OFCOURSE KENYANS KNOW THAT THE COUNTRY'S SECURITY APPARATUS AND MEDIA WILL SPIN IT AS THUGS WERE INVOLVED KILLING SAM KWEGA FOR HIS MONEY!.. YUP! WHICH KENYANS WILL BELIEVE SUCH A LAME STORY? SAME SPIN IN 2007-2008 WHEN SOME POLITICIANS WERE ASSASSINATED.. IT IS STILL FRESH IN MOST KENYANS MINDS!!! ENUFF SAID! Jukwaa will never be a gossip blog.. members have their ears glued onto the ground... to get the latest news, independently instead of the usual kenya media mostly biased news..where there is smoke there is usually a fire thereafter..when some people refuse to accept facts they try to spin their own propaganda or insist on proof.. what proof? where is the proof connecting the all the police 2007-2008 shooting to the controller of security in Kenya? didn't they say the order come from above? who is these individual above? and to date the police are still mowing down innocent Kenyans with bullets! maybe you are on the wrong blog.. were you looking for mashada I would thank you for the assurance that Jukwaa will never be a gossip board if I was assured of your commitment to that assurance. Answering questions as they are asked is the sign of commitment I look for. ... where there is smoke there is usually a fire thereafter.. A reminder of the claims of Mungiki murdering gangs in Naivasha & Nakuru in 2007-2008 to date the government has yet to follow up with the claims now the case is at the ICC.. asking Phil to show proof of the China Squad connection to the murders in Kisumu and its connection to "TNT" is a waste of time.. Kisumu residents made the claims just like their previous claims of police brutality during the 2007-2008 elections.. point out to us who the government apprehended for such heinous crimes that took place in Kisumu and the rest of the country? ZERO!! ENUFF SAID.
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 3, 2012 20:09:46 GMT 3
UNDERSTANDING GANGS EVERYWHERE, KISUMU AND PROPAGANDA. Los Angeles boasts three of the most historic gangs in the USA, and the world. Bloods, Crips --the two are predominantly black; Mara Salvatrucha, the Latino ants, more famous as MS 13; and ABZ --Asian Boys Hardcore. There is abundant urban sociological literature on this phenomenon. And I will always discuss the local gang problem of Kisumu, with these studies in mind. Not to mention several thorough works on Mungiki as a disenfranchised youth movement, unfortunately non by a Kenyan! And warning of its copycats thriving around the republic, in the event of maintained radical social inequality and economic dislocation. For the most authoritative studies on the relationship between organised crime and politics, Sicily in Italy, and New York and Boston, featuring various branches of the Sicilian Mafia in the diaspora or not, will offer uncanny insights into the murk. --How politics can exist with organised crime. But when the balance tilts in favour of the crime syndicates, the result is the phenomenon which has been crystallized in Latin America, the Narco-State. Jakaswanga: Very interesting stuff. I'd be curious to know what you think of Japanese Yakuza gangs, who have always worked to portray themselves as "nice", "respectable" criminals. To be sure, they are nasty criminals, but they seem to be of a very peculiar breed. E.g. during the huge earthquake in Kobe, many years ago, the Yakuza were at the forefront of relief efforts, where they also acted to prevent looting. They were similarly active during last year's disaster: They set up offices, got their best "logistics planners" to temporarily switch from crime to earthquate-relief, etc. Quote (Yakuza boss): "What’s important is that the government couldn’t get the job done. So if we make ourselves useful, then we’ve done the right thing. That’s what our yakuza code of chivalry is all about.”www.japantoday.com/category/top-in-category/view/yakuza-tone-down-events-step-up-relief-efforts-in-quake-stricken-areasThis approach, of making sure that their source of income are doing well, safe from petty crimes and "non-respectable" crime, etc. has again stirred up some debate as to whether the Yakuza are "kind-hearted criminals or monsters in suits". For example: Quotes: It is interesting to note that yakuza offices are out in the public... Japan’s notorious homegrown mafia, the yakuza, is different. Sure they are a gang, but to compare them to Colombian drug lords or the Bloods or Crips of Los Angeles is not fair.... The yakuza have done their best to portray a noble image within the public sphere. They dress nicely, are respectful and talk politely – when not trying to make money. Violence for the most part happens between gang branches or non-yakuza gangs within Japan.... The yakuza are even known to reduce some crime. They will often police themselves. Have you ever been through Tokyo’s Kabukicho entertainment district? Take a look next time. For such a crowded place you might expect an iconic police box or at least cops patrolling, but nope. Yakuza do protect places they collect money from because they don’t want other people to take that money. A petty thief or drug dealer looking for a new territory often thinks twice before operating in yakuza turf. The police catching you may be scary to a criminal, but worse is considering what the yakuza might do to you.... From: www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/yakuza-kind-hearted-criminals-or-monsters-in-suitswhere one reader comments that:several years ago, I once had a brick thrown through my apartment window by a Yakuza member because he thought someone else lived there, some dude who owed money apparently. I came running out and he was genuinely freaked because he didn't expect a big white dude to be living there. After numerous sumimasens, he made a few phone calls and in a couple of hours a work crew came and installed a new window..One might thing that the poster is one of them or has been delegated with PR, but, from personal observations, I am prepared to believe it.
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 3, 2012 20:39:49 GMT 3
Continuing.
I have a keen interest if the above matters, but the primary reason that I happened to be thinking of Japan in this context is in regards to idle, unemployed youth. It must be obvious to anyone who takes a few minutes to think about it that we are sitting on a time-bomb. Just when it will go off is unclear, but, unless something is done to cut the wires, it will go off.
Getting to today's point.
Apart from the bomb aspect, there is our failure to make good use of the abundant energy. Japan is currently facing a demographic disaster. From about 2050, they will be the "oldest" nation as well as the "oldest ever" nation. But the issue is not just one of wringing hands at the prospect of a country of geriatrics: there is the plain matter of money, which, we have been told, makes the world go around. Concrete calculations show that, unless something dramatic happens or is done, from 2050 Japan will annually lose the equivalent of 1% of GDP.
A couple of months ago this issue came up when I had dinner with a couple of friends in the Japanese electronics industry. (They think good robots will substitute for youth.) They claimed to envy Kenya for having such a youthful population. I thought it "unwise" to tell them about the true situation of our youth. Instead, I told them that we are very fortunate in that regard, and we know it.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2012 21:23:03 GMT 3
Otishotish,My history of Japan may be rusty now ---too much emphasis on Anglo-Saxon. But with the world going East as is said to be natural, we sill soon know more about Yakuzas and HongKong Triads, than about Sicillian Mafia, Bloody Crips and MS-13 ants! Yakuza is a centuries old organisation, [ yakuza is not the historical name] and that makes it effectively a succesful entreprise. They have a body of work, say criminal precedents and jurisprudence, which serve as a cultural foundation. Guiding tenets. Yakuza --this is not the original name ;D, started as Ronin, samurai who for some reason had become masterless. But it is in the maturity of the feudal system of Japan, during the Edo-Tukagawa Shogunate, with its iron-clad social regimentation, that the number of Ronin reach a threshold at which they can launch an independent organisation. Notice that Ronin are Sumurai, trained warriors, men of death, and it is no guarantee that when the Emperor's own killers face them in organised battle formations, the emperor will always carry the day. Also, their desperation leads them to experiment with new methods of battle hitherto considered cowardly, like guerrilla, but which can be very effective in evening the military balance, when faced with the overwhelming power of an army. Good leadership in addition to good historical decisions --foreigners invading japan and patriotism being rewarded and the Yakuza fighting at the front-lines! served them well, as they contineud to expand in economic sectors which brought them into least conflict with state-power. Discovering they could co-exist with the state ---the Japanese elite after the Great Wars, afraid of Communism, only too happily welcomed the services of extra-judicial executioners and strike-breakers--, the Yakuza contineud to make themselves needed, getting very rich in the process and expanding into even bigger normal business. But you do not run a centuries old criminal outfit by gentlemanly behaviour alone. The yakuza are ritual killers, using some of the oldest torture methods developed in Japan to intimidate and to maintain loyalty.If you steal the company's money, they will ritually kill three generations of males in your family. They will boil your female children as you watch, until all the meat is separated from their bones, and they will torture you to drink the soup everyday for months as your only diet. Here is the romantic side. The yakuza have cracked hard on business that does not respect the consumer. Like in Kenya, when public service vehicles break down on the road, they do not refund the fare. Now, a hundred years ago they used to be like that in Japan too, until the yakuza took up consumer rights, killed a few hundred manambas and PSV-drivers in gory detail, and replaced them with their own consumer friendly gang members! You have gone to government offices, and seen a long queue of waiting people, while the office clerks fill crossword and tell stories behind the counter? In Japan they used to be like that too, until somehow the bodies of such clerks surfaced routinely in Nairobi river equivalents.And your local mugger whom everybody knew but dared not confront? Well, one morning he is found with a sword all the way from his arse to his throat. Then the bill of ksh. 200 per door, per month in the estate! Who is the bad guy, who is the good guy? who do you want to pay your taxes to in the local area? The yakuza had become a national police force at a very cheap rate. You could walk at midnight, even as a single woman dressed in skimpies, from Migosi via Obama to Kaloleni and Ondiek through Nyalenda to Dunga!{Ask people who live in Kisumu what will happen to you if you try that walk at night!] Me? I prefer crime-fighters who read me my Miranda! UNDERSTANDING GANGS EVERYWHERE, KISUMU AND PROPAGANDA. Los Angeles boasts three of the most historic gangs in the USA, and the world. Bloods, Crips --the two are predominantly black; Mara Salvatrucha, the Latino ants, more famous as MS 13; and ABZ --Asian Boys Hardcore. There is abundant urban sociological literature on this phenomenon. And I will always discuss the local gang problem of Kisumu, with these studies in mind. Not to mention several thorough works on Mungiki as a disenfranchised youth movement, unfortunately non by a Kenyan! And warning of its copycats thriving around the republic, in the event of maintained radical social inequality and economic dislocation. For the most authoritative studies on the relationship between organised crime and politics, Sicily in Italy, and New York and Boston, featuring various branches of the Sicilian Mafia in the diaspora or not, will offer uncanny insights into the murk. --How politics can exist with organised crime. But when the balance tilts in favour of the crime syndicates, the result is the phenomenon which has been crystallized in Latin America, the Narco-State. Jakaswanga: Very interesting stuff. I'd be curious to know what you think of Japanese Yakuza gangs, who have always worked to portray themselves as "nice", "respectable" criminals. To be sure, they are nasty criminals, but they seem to be of a very peculiar breed. E.g. during the huge earthquake in Kobe, many years ago, the Yakuza were at the forefront of relief efforts, where they also acted to prevent looting. They were similarly active during last year's disaster: They set up offices, got their best "logistics planners" to temporarily switch from crime to earthquate-relief, etc. Quote (Yakuza boss): "What’s important is that the government couldn’t get the job done. So if we make ourselves useful, then we’ve done the right thing. That’s what our yakuza code of chivalry is all about.”www.japantoday.com/category/top-in-category/view/yakuza-tone-down-events-step-up-relief-efforts-in-quake-stricken-areasThis approach, of making sure that their source of income are doing well, safe from petty crimes and "non-respectable" crime, etc. has again stirred up some debate as to whether the Yakuza are "kind-hearted criminals or monsters in suits". For example: Quotes: It is interesting to note that yakuza offices are out in the public... Japan’s notorious homegrown mafia, the yakuza, is different. Sure they are a gang, but to compare them to Colombian drug lords or the Bloods or Crips of Los Angeles is not fair.... The yakuza have done their best to portray a noble image within the public sphere. They dress nicely, are respectful and talk politely – when not trying to make money. Violence for the most part happens between gang branches or non-yakuza gangs within Japan.... The yakuza are even known to reduce some crime. They will often police themselves. Have you ever been through Tokyo’s Kabukicho entertainment district? Take a look next time. For such a crowded place you might expect an iconic police box or at least cops patrolling, but nope. Yakuza do protect places they collect money from because they don’t want other people to take that money. A petty thief or drug dealer looking for a new territory often thinks twice before operating in yakuza turf. The police catching you may be scary to a criminal, but worse is considering what the yakuza might do to you.... From: www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/yakuza-kind-hearted-criminals-or-monsters-in-suitswhere one reader comments that:several years ago, I once had a brick thrown through my apartment window by a Yakuza member because he thought someone else lived there, some dude who owed money apparently. I came running out and he was genuinely freaked because he didn't expect a big white dude to be living there. After numerous sumimasens, he made a few phone calls and in a couple of hours a work crew came and installed a new window..One might thing that the poster is one of them or has been delegated with PR, but, from personal observations, I am prepared to believe it.
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Post by mank on Nov 4, 2012 22:10:33 GMT 3
.. point out to us who the government apprehended for such heinous crimes that took place in Kisumu and the rest of the country? ZERO!! ENUFF SAID. What authority do you perceive of me so to ask me to speak for government? Or from what vantage point do you expect me to answer your question above?
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