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Post by mank on Oct 31, 2012 14:39:12 GMT 3
I will ignore @kamale for now. Kicks of a dying horse! We cannot go round and round in cricles over one thing!
ODM has demanded a total overhaul of the provincial security set-up in Kisumu and the wider Nyanza region.
Picture this: The Kisumu District Security Committee (DSC) and Nyanza Provincial Security Committee (PSC) are composed of members from a certain region in Kenya. (ref to Hansard).
Is this a tenable arrangement in this political season? Not it is not. In fact Kisumu residents are taking action intot heir own hands after the police decided to openly take sides with a certain politically correct vigilante/gang. Phil, I am still very curious about the question I asked you. You reported that the shooting was being blamed on China Squad. Could you substantiate that report? Who was blaming the shooting on China squad?
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Post by abdulmote on Oct 31, 2012 14:56:57 GMT 3
Kamale, Phil,
I don't see why the fuss about the link you two are on about. Neither of you had originally 'created the rumour' and so you might as well relax about it. Besides, I don't think it matters much. Kenyans are intellingent enough to know the truth!
Now, this issue of "taking sides", I would like to imagine that one does not have to 'belong' to a particular tribe to do so. But wait a minute; is one Onyango Oloo a creature of the mountains or the lake? I would like to think that he is an offspring originating from the mount kenya region, only that his name is telling me otherwise!
You see, nowadays there is something that can 'unite' kenyans as 'one' irrespective of their ancestory or tribes. It is called money! Shillings is the kenyan currency name in english and mbesha in Gikuyu. Can someone tell me what is the term in Dholuo? Jakaswanga? I know I can rely on you!
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Ouali
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by Ouali on Oct 31, 2012 15:26:06 GMT 3
someone from the lake told me the real term is "Omenda" hell knows where the term originates because he could not explain either. Kisumu has been quite peaceful and it is curious violence and robbery is creeping back at an alarming scale just before the elections. There was a police chief who went his way to deal with idle youths who had made it a habit of terrorising the town and its environs. And sure he brought sanity to kisumu he has since been transfered. I believe Its on this note that the residents are rioting against the police bacause they know their security can be guaranteed by the same police force if they were serious enough.
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Post by phil on Nov 1, 2012 11:49:03 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Nov 1, 2012 12:03:52 GMT 3
I thought Raila left for Asia to look for campaign money on Tuesday night and is not due back until next week hence the cancellation of the meeting with another set of Kalenjin elders in Eldoret? Is he back yet or hata wewe haujui? See today's Nation www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Raila+leaves+for+Asia+as+talks+put+off/-/1064/1608704/-/au0thz/-/index.htmlPrime Minister Raila Odinga left the country unannounced on Tuesday night for a private trip to Asia as his campaigns took a short break ahead of his planned visit to Eldoret on Monday.
The PM’s campaign team has laid down plans for talks with leaders in Eldoret Town amid frantic efforts to woo back the region. (READ: Elders: What we told Raila about Rift Valley vote)
His attempts to convince Mr Ruto to sign a pre-election deal with him have met resistance from some of the Eldoret North MP’s close allies, forcing the URP leader into another try at cutting a deal with Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta.
Unwilling to discuss
Mr Odinga was to hold a meeting with elders at Poa Place in Eldoret on Friday, but it was cancelled to accommodate his Asian trip.
Mr Odinga’s officers were on Wednesday unwilling to discuss details of his trip that involved a lean team of close associates and a security officer.
But the head of his campaign, Mr Eliud Owallo, said that plans for his Eldoret meeting are on course.
“We will be in Eldoret on Monday. It will be one of a series of Town Hall meetings to engage local leaders,” Mr Owallo said.
The chairman of North Rift for Raila, Mr Simon Lilan, who is coordinating the meeting, told the Nation that the talks were cancelled on Wednesday and rescheduled by Mr Odinga’s campaign secretariat...but then wonders of this world could have created a double for him!
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Post by phil on Nov 1, 2012 17:28:09 GMT 3
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Post by joblesscorner on Nov 1, 2012 17:59:20 GMT 3
Phil,
Quick question, a while ago, the PM was addressing kisumu residents including surrounding residents, and he adviced themb if they expect to to produce a President they should conduct themselves better, especially how they demonstrate?
Do you think what is happening currently, plays negatively on the PM, especially on stereotypes?, just a thought!
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Post by phil on Nov 1, 2012 21:11:01 GMT 3
Phil,Quick question, a while ago, the PM was addressing kisumu residents including surrounding residents, and he adviced themb if they expect to to produce a President they should conduct themselves better, especially how they demonstrate? Do you think what is happening currently, plays negatively on the PM, especially on stereotypes?, just a thought! joblesscornerYou have issues mixed up. Producing a president is not the end of the world and is actually immaterial. Kisumu, just like Mombasa, happens to be an ODM stronghold and we in ODM are more inclined to reforms that will build institutions for posterity. I am not sure if you have been to Kisumu which unlike Nyeri or Garissa, is a city that all communities of Kenya reside at. There are also foreigners living and working in Kisumu. At micro-entrepreneurship level, there are hawkers from as far as DRC and China doing business in Kisumu. So this is really not a tribal thing as you seem to suggest. Insecurity affects all of these people. If anything, the current insecurity in Kisumu is part of a patterned geopolitical flare-up that is very suspicious. Kisumu is a potential capital of the East Africa federation and we have proved the town is being sabotaged both politically and economically in the run-up to the general elections. Its a poorly kept secret! The PM's presidential campaign is issued based and not premised on tribal emotions. It is these issues that are being amplified to the wider Kenyan public. Unfortunately insecurity displaces voters and impacts negatively on voter turn-out which in a close election can make a difference. It also undermines economic development. I personally doubt if IEBC will hit the 18million target given the Kisumu, Kwale and Tana river insecurities.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 1, 2012 21:38:12 GMT 3
Phil
I think you dismiss Joblesscorner unfairly. In Kenya perception is everything and the reactions of a community as happened in Kisumu will have the minority communities ignored when stereotyping starts. Is that not why Raila felt it important to ask the locals to observe peace especially if they want to produce a president?
I shall ignore you other assertions about Raila and tribal emotions.....
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 2, 2012 0:56:37 GMT 3
Phil I think you dismiss Joblesscorner unfairly. In Kenya perception is everything and the reactions of a community as happened in Kisumu will have the minority communities ignored when stereotyping starts. Is that not why Raila felt it important to ask the locals to observe peace especially if they want to produce a president? I shall ignore you other assertions about Raila and tribal emotions..... are there other tribes doing business or investments in places like Nyeri, Kiambu, Muranga e.t.c? the last I heard if rumours are true after 2007 no other tribes in Kenya has ventured back to these areas in central province due to fear of reprisals.. A Kenyan presidential candidate must be from a background that accepts and can work with including encouraging other tribes to do business in his constituency backyard.. so whose president is Uhuru going to be? central province? how can he speak for other tribes when in his own backyard they don't accept or tolerate other tribes to trade there? trying to partner with Mudavadi or his other protégées Wamalwa aint going to open doors to other tribes doing business in Kiambu or other parts of central province... I wonder whether even the Indian traders went back after 2007? other parts of the country business went back to normal..
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Post by mank on Nov 2, 2012 5:31:20 GMT 3
I will ignore @kamale for now. Kicks of a dying horse! We cannot go round and round in cricles over one thing!
ODM has demanded a total overhaul of the provincial security set-up in Kisumu and the wider Nyanza region.
Picture this: The Kisumu District Security Committee (DSC) and Nyanza Provincial Security Committee (PSC) are composed of members from a certain region in Kenya. (ref to Hansard).
Is this a tenable arrangement in this political season? Not it is not. In fact Kisumu residents are taking action intot heir own hands after the police decided to openly take sides with a certain politically correct vigilante/gang. Phil,
I am still very curious about the question I asked you. You reported that the shooting was being blamed on China Squad. Could you substantiate that report? Who was blaming the shooting on China squad?Phil, At this rate I think it is safe to conclude that you are not going to back up your allegation. That's frustrating and suggestive of your real intentions in making the claim.
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 2, 2012 6:58:39 GMT 3
Rumour!! rumours and seems that some rumours turn out to be true... If anyone has questions about China Squad ask Onyango Oloo "TNT" or the MP's who brought his name up at question period in parliament.. where thy mentioned that they Police has named him as a person of interest connected to China Squad! why hasn't he been pulled in for questioning? the MP's demanded it in parliament.. IS HE THAT POWERFUL AND UN-TOUCHABLE? AND WHY IS THAT? LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.. WHO IS PLANNING AND CAUSING MAYHEM IN KISUMU HIRING AND PAYING GANGS.... IS IT ANOTHER MUNGIKI IN THE MAKING BEFORE ELECTIONS?
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Post by phil on Nov 2, 2012 9:10:38 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Nov 2, 2012 13:13:23 GMT 3
According to Twitter PM Odinga has recalled top cop Johnstone Wanyama to Kisumu to contain the insecurity that abounds there...
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Post by mzee on Nov 2, 2012 13:57:12 GMT 3
According to Twitter PM Odinga has recalled top cop Johnstone Wanyama to Kisumu to contain the insecurity that abounds there... I can confirm that he is in town. For how long I dont know
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by jeff on Nov 2, 2012 14:27:14 GMT 3
Rumour!! rumours and seems that some rumours turn out to be true... If anyone has questions about China Squad ask Onyango Oloo "TNT" or the MP's who brought his name up at question period in parliament.. where thy mentioned that they Police has named him as a person of interest connected to China Squad! why hasn't he been pulled in for questioning? the MP's demanded it in parliament.. IS HE THAT POWERFUL AND UN-TOUCHABLE? AND WHY IS THAT? LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.. WHO IS PLANNING AND CAUSING MAYHEM IN KISUMU HIRING AND PAYING GANGS.... IS IT ANOTHER MUNGIKI IN THE MAKING BEFORE ELECTIONS? Just for argument's sake, if TNA has infiltrated the criminal world of Kisumu (which is not an easy feat....imagine ODM infitrating Mungiki in Murang'a), then it follows that TNA must be a force to reckon with in Kisumu. Can we then conclude Kisumu belongs to TNA in 2013? Right?
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Post by mzee on Nov 2, 2012 14:30:33 GMT 3
Thugwise TNA is a force to reckon with. Don't look further than ICC for proof
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Post by kamalet on Nov 2, 2012 14:36:37 GMT 3
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Post by phil on Nov 2, 2012 16:04:37 GMT 3
You've run out of something to say, right?
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Post by phil on Nov 2, 2012 16:05:39 GMT 3
MR. WANYAMA RETURNED TO KISUMU.
On behalf of the ODM and Kisumu County, I would like to thank the Prime Minister Rt. Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga and the Commissioner of Police Mr. Mathew Iteere for responding to the prayer of the people of Kisumu to appoint Mr. Johnson Wanyama the Chief of police (OCPD) of Kisumu County.
We shall give Mr. Wanyama our full support to stamp out crime in Kisumu and it's environs.
Prof. P. Anyang Nyong'o. Secretary General - ODM 2/11/2012
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Post by joblesscorner on Nov 2, 2012 16:21:04 GMT 3
Phil,
I have not gone AWOL, as you insinuated on the other thread. If you go back to Raphael Tuju visits Kogelo thread, there is even a clip of Rao requesting/asking the residents to behave accordingly if they expect to produce a president. Horses mouth.
I think the thread Obama Vs Raila should be renamed Joe Biden Vs Raila, because Joe Biden is known to have off the cuff remarks, same as Rao, you never know what he will say when his on the podium.
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Post by mank on Nov 3, 2012 0:25:46 GMT 3
Phil, You mean how TNA is linked to the murder of Shem Kwega, or to the general violence? Your allegation was that Shem Kwega's murder is being blamed on China squad. That is the allegation I have asked you to subtantiate - tell us who is connecting that murder with China Squad, or at least give us some reasonable basis for making such a connection. Here you seem to be talking about the general violence in Kisumu, which may not necessarily explain the murder of Shem Kwega, and which is not what I inquired aobut. Infact only one of the stories you link to in this response alleges knowledge of the likely organizational backgrounds of the man's murderers, and that background does not match the one you alleged. In my view we should not be making any breaking allegations that we are not ready to back up. If we are to entertain that tendency, then Jukwaa will be nothing but a gossip board. I hate to be part of such!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 1:49:50 GMT 3
Are there deliberate attempts to foment conflicts and subvert the Constitution? By MAINA KIAI
Posted Friday, November 2 2012 at 20:06 At dawn on Tuesday, October 29, Samburu morans raided a Turkana village in Samburu seeking to recover about 400 cattle that had been stolen on October 20. They were repulsed and 12 Samburu morans were killed in the attempt.
Since then, the State has reinforced security personnel to address the rising tensions and conflicts.
It is tempting to see this as part of “normal” cattle rustling between pastoral communities. However, witness accounts suggest that this is not just about the typical absence of State security in these remote areas where people have been forced — with the blessings and arms from the State — to protect themselves.
What is emerging is a pattern that is far more dangerous as we head into elections, especially with the huge unanswered questions about devolution and how it will work.
It seems deliberately calculated to raise ethnic conflicts and other tensions, perhaps as a way to rubbish devolution and the Constitution, hoping that citizens will demand strong-arm tactics and more centralised power, thus retaining the status quo.
Indeed it is similar to former President Moi’s self-serving prediction that multi-partyism would lead to conflict, which his regime then initiated and implemented as ethnic cleansing in the Rift Valley in the 1990s.
Consider some facts. After the October 20 cattle rustling, the (illegal) County Commissioner in Samburu asked the community not to intervene, saying the government would recover the animals in three days.
Literally everyone knew that the Turkana had done the rustling and that the animals were being kept at the village which has about 1,000 inhabitants. The County Commissioner also suspended three chiefs and sub-chiefs from the Turkana side and summoned a local councillor for interrogation.
On October 21, a team of about 30 security officials went to the Turkana village and engaged the inhabitants in a five-hour gunbattle before it was repulsed. The security team even had a police helicopter hovering above.
With the failure of this operation, rather than seek reinforcements, the officials instead turned to Samburu morans, seeking them out at Baragoi and tasking them to recover the animals.
And as planned and is well known in the community and security circles, the Samburu morans attacked the Turkana village on October 29 but were also repulsed, leading to the death of 12 morans. Only after this did the security officials seek and get reinforcements.
In Kisumu, police locked up innocent, hard-working citizens in a container and hurled teargas into it — burning three to death — and then claimed that the use of force was justified as a mob had planned to attack the police station. The station is a distance from the container.
The sum effect of these actions and omissions is to increase tensions, feelings of revenge and conflicts. And it comes on the heels of events in Tana River, which were allowed to fester to awful proportions, right under the noses of the police, who decided to do anything, leading to more than 50 deaths.
The Mombasa tensions also fit into this pattern, where a professed non-violent group is being accused by the police and the media of every single violent action at the coast — in a manner similar to 2006-7 where every violent criminal act in Nairobi and central Kenya was labelled “Mungiki”, leading to the executions of about 1,000 youth, many of whom were simply unable to raise the extortion fees demanded by corrupt police officers.
So confident are the police that they feel no shame in bringing to court a suspect who has been obviously thoroughly beaten while in custody, sure that their strong-arm tactics will find public favour, and that unreformed remnants in the Judiciary will not question them.
But why would the State foment conflicts and tensions as we go into elections? In the 1990s, the initial purpose was to deter multi-partyism; but once it took hold, violence was then used to intimidate voters and rig the elections by engendering a climate of fear and intimidation.
Are we seeing a repeat of the 1990s but this time also with the aim of subverting the Constitution that the powerful do not like?
mkiai2000@yahoo.comwww.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/1610180/-/koiihyz/-/index.html
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 5:59:51 GMT 3
Rumour!! rumours and seems that some rumours turn out to be true... If anyone has questions about China Squad ask Onyango Oloo "TNT" or the MP's who brought his name up at question period in parliament.. where thy mentioned that they Police has named him as a person of interest connected to China Squad! why hasn't he been pulled in for questioning? the MP's demanded it in parliament.. IS HE THAT POWERFUL AND UN-TOUCHABLE? AND WHY IS THAT? LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN.. WHO IS PLANNING AND CAUSING MAYHEM IN KISUMU HIRING AND PAYING GANGS.... IS IT ANOTHER MUNGIKI IN THE MAKING BEFORE ELECTIONS? Just for argument's sake, if TNA has infiltrated the criminal world of Kisumu (which is not an easy feat....imagine ODM infitrating Mungiki in Murang'a), then it follows that TNA must be a force to reckon with in Kisumu. Can we then conclude Kisumu belongs to TNA in 2013? Right? Lets not confuse the "TNT" Mungiki like thugs to the residents of Kisumu!! Kisumu residents will not allow the repeat of 2007 "like the thugs and police that were hired to shoot and kill innocent residents.. Let Onyango Oloo Hired "TNT china Squad thugs be knowing their time is numbered .. Kisumu Iko na wenyewe let them take their Killing machine tactics back to central province.. THEY WILL BE FLASHED OUT ONE BY ONE.. BURE KABISA!!
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 3, 2012 6:01:28 GMT 3
Phil, I have not gone AWOL, as you insinuated on the other thread. If you go back to Raphael Tuju visits Kogelo thread, there is even a clip of Rao requesting/asking the residents to behave accordingly if they expect to produce a president. Horses mouth. I think the thread Obama Vs Raila should be renamed Joe Biden Vs Raila, because Joe Biden is known to have off the cuff remarks, same as Rao, you never know what he will say when his on the podium. AT LEAST HE DOESN'T HIRE THUGS TO KILL INNOCENT RESIDENTS AMA? HE ENCOURAGES THE RESIDENTS AND THE CITIZENS OF KENYA TO BEHAVE ACCORDINGLY...
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