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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 16:48:31 GMT 3
I don’t see why people are attacking Miguna. He has simply said the truth! Amherst is a private institution just like the plethora of private universities we have in Kenya: these are largely commercial. It is usually the case that if you went to USIU or Daystar you (a) had failed your KCSE and was unable to join the public university by merit (you probably garnered a C- grade) AND (b) you were moneyed. This is why when I was studying my undergraduate we had very healthy disrespect for USIU folks whom we considered academic minnows. Obviously with the advent of the ‘parallel degree’, things have changed quite a bit. Secondly, it is a FACT that the three judges of the pre-trial chamber have AGREED UNANIMOUSLY that these suspects were responsible for the crimes for which Ocampo wants them and that they should answer. In fact, in a strange twist, it is the dissenting judge who offered the most withering opinion of the suspects leaving no doubt that, in his learned and competent view, they were responsible based on the evidence. This is NOT propaganda. These are facts. Now we can kill the messenger but his message will still haunt. Finally, Muguna is being an African. Funerals are BIG affairs in Africa. In my neck of woods we have a dirge group called ‘jo-kondo’ or the feather people. They can, with vigorous dancing and singing, turn an ‘ordinary’ funeral into a spectacle. And they are for hire. So Amherst being a private institution is the measure of its mediocrity? Not surprising from Miguna and his choir. What about the Harvards, the Yales, the Princetons and the Stanfords that all privates? No Mr. Mwalimu Mkuu, lets not argue about a small school that a wealthy Kenyan went to because he could fork the 5m required every year. That US College is probably ok. As I it only offers undergraduate courses and has less than 2000 students! So its prestige is value judgement and we can have as many opinions as there are opinion-makers. That is why despite USIU having very beautiful buildings (and maybe academic programs) some of us looked down at it as a refuge for intellectual lightweights! It doesn’t mean it was bad or even true – it was just our opinion. Many a Harvard sophomore have described Yale as backwater: such intellectual spurring and sniping has happened for time immemorial. But aside from opinions, which are a dime a dozen, let us confirm Miguna’s factual assertions regarding Amhersts private and commercial origins. My opinion: I doubt that Uhuru went there on merit: most likely he joined the college because they could afford it given their immense wealth.
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2011 17:07:54 GMT 3
No Mr. Mwalimu Mkuu, lets not argue about a small school that a wealthy Kenyan went to because he could fork the 5m required every year. That US College is probably ok. As I it only offers undergraduate courses and has less than 2000 students!
So its prestige is value judgement and we can have as many opinions as there are opinion-makers. That is why despite USIU having very beautiful buildings (and maybe academic programs) some of us looked down at it as a refuge for intellectual lightweights! It doesn’t mean it was bad or even true – it was just our opinion.
Many a Harvard sophomore have described Yale as backwater: such intellectual spurring and sniping has happened for time immemorial.
But aside from opinions, which are a dime a dozen, let us confirm Miguna’s factual assertions regarding Amhersts private and commercial origins.
My opinion: I doubt that Uhuru went there on merit: most likely he joined the college because they could afford it given their immense wealth. RR, Colleges are not ranked by opinion calls, rather by specified objective metrics.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 17:14:35 GMT 3
I have been reflecting on this article.
It is my opinion that many Jukwaaists including Mank, Adongo, Nalinali, Mosop, kaburwo, Johns, Mwalimumkuu, Kamalet, Chesirecat, Mangai and Commes have all missed the point.
They rushed here to criticize Miguna, pretending to know just what kind of article Miguna should have written. You said too much. You hit too hard. Too pungent for my taste. etc Writing is art. And Miguna is a connoisseur. All these critics failed to grasp the import of Migina’s very first sentence:
Right there and then Miguna is preparing you for what he is about to say and telling you: I DON’T care what you think and I have NO apologies. In your freaking face. He is deliberate. That, in my opinion, is the quality of a greater social commentator. They do not write what people want to hear and how people want to hear. They do not write to be popular or politically correct. And they are confident in their audience. As a result, Miguna is fast turning out to be one of the most read writers in Kenya!
Chinua Achebe, the great African storyteller, in response to a question about why he had to kill Okonkwo, the fateful character in his celebrated novel, Things Fall Apart, responded thus: ‘Write your own book and don’t kill your Okonkwo’
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 17:22:50 GMT 3
RR, Colleges are not ranked by opinion calls, rather by specified objective metrics. Mank - I know that. I only refer to the time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni. These are usually airy opinions. Read before you write.
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Post by kaburwo on Mar 30, 2011 17:32:47 GMT 3
Thirst is NOTHING, Image is EVERYTHING
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2011 17:34:19 GMT 3
RR, Colleges are not ranked by opinion calls, rather by specified objective metrics. Mank - I know that. I only refer to the time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni. These are usually airy opinions. Read before you write. I read before I wrote. That would be the only way to find out what to respond to. Now you say it is not the official ranking colleges you were trashing, but a "time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni." How did such sniping become part of this discussion? What is its place in the discussion, except you are bringing it in from nowhere? Are you also struggling to join the bandwagon of the usual nonsense-sayers who are always switching the actual debates with their concortions just so to seem to command the debates?
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Post by mangai on Mar 30, 2011 17:37:22 GMT 3
I have been reflecting on this article. It is my opinion that many Jukwaaists including Mank, Adongo, Nalinali, Mosop, kaburwo, Johns, Mwalimumkuu, Kamalet, Chesirecat, Mangai and Commes have all missed the point. They rushed here to criticize Miguna, pretending to know just what kind of article Miguna should have written. You said too much. You hit too hard. Too pungent for my taste. etc Writing is art. And Miguna is a connoisseur. All these critics failed to grasp the import of Migina’s very first sentence: Right there and then Miguna is preparing you for what he is about to say and telling you: I DON’T care what you think and I have NO apologies. In your freaking face. He is deliberate. That, in my opinion, is the quality of a greater social commentator. They do not write what people want to hear and how people want to hear. They do not write to be popular or politically correct. And they are confident in their audience. As a result, Miguna is fast turning out to be one of the most read writers in Kenya! Chinua Achebe, the great African storyteller, in response to a question about why he had to kill Okonkwo, the fateful character in his celebrated novel, Things Fall Apart, responded thus: ‘Write your own book and don’t kill your Okonkwo’ Miguna is free to write whatever he wants. However, how i wish he could be disassociated from the PM. Through some of his articles, he could be doing the PM more harm than good, without realising it.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 17:40:06 GMT 3
Mank - I know that. I only refer to the time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni. These are usually airy opinions. Read before you write. I read before I wrote. That would be the only way to find out what to respond to. Now you say it is not the official ranking colleges you were trashing, but a "time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni." How did such sniping become part of this discussion? What is its place in the discussion, except you are bring it in from nowhere? Are you also struggling to join the bandwagon of the usual nonsense-sayers who are always switching the actual debates with their concortions just so to seem to command the debates? Mank: You did NOT read. If you read, you would have seen Miguna literally comparing his schools in Canada including the Osgoode Law School and the 'commercial' Amherst. This is purely intellectual sniping among alumni, a longstanding tradition. In kindergarten speak it goes - 'my school is better than yours' - and requires no scientific studies.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 30, 2011 17:42:10 GMT 3
So Amherst being a private institution is the measure of its mediocrity? Not surprising from Miguna and his choir. What about the Harvards, the Yales, the Princetons and the Stanfords that all privates? No Mr. Mwalimu Mkuu, lets not argue about a small school that a wealthy Kenyan went to because he could fork the 5m required every year. That US College is probably ok. As I it only offers undergraduate courses and has less than 2000 students! So its prestige is value judgement and we can have as many opinions as there are opinion-makers. That is why despite USIU having very beautiful buildings (and maybe academic programs) some of us looked down at it as a refuge for intellectual lightweights! It doesn’t mean it was bad or even true – it was just our opinion. Many a Harvard sophomore have described Yale as backwater: such intellectual spurring and sniping has happened for time immemorial. But aside from opinions, which are a dime a dozen, let us confirm Miguna’s factual assertions regarding Amhersts private and commercial origins. My opinion: I doubt that Uhuru went there on merit: most likely he joined the college because they could afford it given their immense wealth. Yeah we are now talking, opinion is just that, opinion. It only becomes a problem when it is bundied around as the reality that everyone must take.
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Post by Horth on Mar 30, 2011 17:44:06 GMT 3
rr,I’m quite surprised that you, of all contributors, support this article. Whether what Miguna wrote is the truth or not is not the point. The point, in my opinion, is the consequences of his narrow perception of the political reality in Kenya. Thintelligence "[Arnold and Wu are] technicians. They don't have intelligence. They have what I call 'thintelligence.’ They see the immediate situation. They think narrowly and they call it 'being focused.' They don't see the surround. They don't see the consequences. That's how you get an island like [Jurassic Park]. From thintelligent thinking. Because you cannot make an animal and not expect it be act alive. To be unpredictable. To escape. But they don't see that." “Malcolm”, Michael Crichton, Jurassic Park Miguna is obviously suffering from thintelligence and clearly never considers nor tries to see the consequences of his articles, facts notwithstanding. He's not considering the alienation he's generating for the PM. He's not considering the hate of 2008 which is still simmering. He's not considering the fact that Uhuru and Ruto may read the article and see ODM (Raila) celebrating their predicament. He’s not considering that his articles may harden their positions; that it will give them an excuse to harden their positions even further. Miguna is not seeing all that. He’s “focused”. The only thing he seems to see is landing a sucker-punch on Uhuru and Ruto, to the standing ovation of his “followers” who’re enjoying the show. High fives. But seriously; is this what we really need? Sucker-punches? Enjoyment? Aren’t we still a fragile nation trying to move forward, chart out a new future? Isn’t his boss running for PORK in 2012? It goes without saying that the departure of Uhuru and Ruto will definitely benefit his boss. Whether Raila is responsible or not for their actions during the PEV is not the point and is really immaterial here. Perceptions count and the perceptions being unleashed about Miguna’s boss by his articles don’t bode well for Raila, like it or not. These are some of the consequences Miguna fails to see because he’s too “focused”. Responsibilty.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 17:46:08 GMT 3
Miguna is free to write whatever he wants. However, how i wish he could be disassociated from the PM. Through some of his articles, he could be doing the PM more harm than good, without realising it. Mangai - actually Miguna writes in his own capacity and each article he writes has a clear caveat that these are his personal views. We should certainly trust that people smart enough to understand Miguna's articles would be clever enough to know that these are his personal views. Incidentally, the PM's greatest adversaries are also of the opinion that Miguna should NOT be in the PM's office. I don't think they are looking for this result for the love of the PM!
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 17:51:19 GMT 3
Yeah we are now talking, opinion is just that, opinion. It only becomes a problem when it is bundied around as the reality that everyone must take. Yes - the first sentence in that article should have educated you in the first place. These are opinion pieces. That is what they are! The thing is, writers such as Miguna shape opinion and not much we can do about that: our world is 2% reality and 90% opinion.
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2011 17:56:49 GMT 3
I read before I wrote. That would be the only way to find out what to respond to. Now you say it is not the official ranking colleges you were trashing, but a "time honored tradition of intellectual sniping among alumni." How did such sniping become part of this discussion? What is its place in the discussion, except you are bring it in from nowhere? Are you also struggling to join the bandwagon of the usual nonsense-sayers who are always switching the actual debates with their concortions just so to seem to command the debates? Mank: You did NOT read. If you read, you would have seen Miguna literally comparing his schools in Canada including the Osgoode Law School and the 'commercial' Amherst. This is purely intellectual sniping among alumni, a longstanding tradition. In kindergarten speak it goes - 'my school is better than yours' - and requires no scientific studies. What are we arguing about now? Are you saying that if I read what Miguna said of Amherst and his Canadian schools then I have to agree with him, or what is your point? If you agree that ranking of schools is not abstract opinions, why do you first argue that it is, and then when I bring to your attention what ranking really is you insist on taking me back to what you think I missed of Miguna? I did not fail to read it ... it is part of what I have been disagreeing with.
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Post by madgf on Mar 30, 2011 18:02:09 GMT 3
OMG how slow can some of yous be? Isn't the sarcasm obvious? I don't think MM's point is to praise his credentials and put schools down. Real arrogant schmucks don't flaunt like that. Try reading between his lines.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 30, 2011 18:05:06 GMT 3
May be this is a good time to get back to the issues if that is not a problem for some people. This thread is about Kenya, or so, I would suppose. Martha Karua speaks for me here and may be for millions of Kenyans. ama? www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1135726/-/7q902o/-/index.html
Karua tells Ocampo Six to go "quietly"
Ms Karua took on Finance minister Uhuru Kenyatta in Parliament Wednesday, where he was presenting the Supplementary Budget estimates for approval. Standing across from where Mr Kenyatta sat, Ms Karua said an additional Sh5 billion allocated for “enhanced security” should not be used in the provision of security for rallies organised by the Ocampo Six. “We need security, but not for security for the big boys. There are more Kenyans than the Ocampo Six,” she charged. She said the government would have better spent the money on the resettlement of Internally Displaced Persons and food for those affected by drought. Ms Karua and Mr Kenyatta are perceived as political opponents and have supported different candidates in recent by-elections. Ms Karua said MPs had voted for The Hague option in refusing to approve a Bill she had prepared for the creation of a special tribunal to try the post-election violence suspects when she was Justice minister. “Lest I am accused of celebrating that people are going to The Hague, let me remind you that I came here and pleaded with you to establish a Special Tribunal. I was told, ‘Don’t be vague, let’s go to The Hague’,” she said. “Now The Hague has come, take The Hague quietly.”Ms Karua asked those destined for the International Criminal Court to ask their associates what option they voted for at that time, and what their current stand is. She said coalition principals President Kibaki and Prime Minister Raila Odinga tried to convince the MPs to approve the formation of the tribunal when they signed a commitment to either have it in place within 60 days or have the cases handled by the ICC. Ms Karua also accused the government of a tendency to cater for the needs of the rich at the expense of the poor, who are already saddled with the high cost of living.
“This is a big boys' club, never mind the ages of the big boys,” she said.Mr Kenyatta has been summoned to The Hague along with Head of Civil Service Francis Muthaura, former police chief Hussein Ali, Eldoret North MP William Ruto, Tinderet MP Henry Kosgey and radio presenter Joshua arap Sang for an initial appearance on April 7 and 8.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 18:08:56 GMT 3
rr,I’m quite surprised that you, of all contributors, support this article. Whether what Miguna wrote is the truth or not is not the point. The point, in my opinion, is the consequences of his narrow perception of the political reality in Kenya. Thintelligence "[Arnold and Wu are] technicians. They don't have intelligence. They have what I call 'thintelligence.’ They see the immediate situation. They think narrowly and they call it 'being focused.' They don't see the surround. They don't see the consequences. That's how you get an island like [Jurassic Park]. From thintelligent thinking. Because you cannot make an animal and not expect it be act alive. To be unpredictable. To escape. But they don't see that." “Malcolm”, Michael Crichton, Jurassic Park Miguna is obviously suffering from thintelligence and clearly never considers nor tries to see the consequences of his articles, facts notwithstanding. He's not considering the alienation he's generating for the PM. He's not considering the hate of 2008 which is still simmering. He's not considering the fact that Uhuru and Ruto may read the article and see ODM (Raila) celebrating their predicament. He’s not considering that his articles may harden their positions; that it will give them an excuse to harden their positions even further. Miguna is not seeing all that. He’s “focused”. The only thing he seems to see is landing a sucker-punch on Uhuru and Ruto, to the standing ovation of his “followers” who’re enjoying the show. High fives. But seriously; is this what we really need? Sucker-punches? Enjoyment? Aren’t we still a fragile nation trying to move forward, chart out a new future? Isn’t his boss running for PORK in 2012? It goes without saying that the departure of Uhuru and Ruto will definitely benefit his boss. Whether Raila is responsible or not for their actions during the PEV is not the point and is really immaterial here. Perceptions count and the perceptions being unleashed about Miguna’s boss by his articles don’t bode well for Raila, like it or not. These are some of the consequences Miguna fails to see because he’s too “focused”. Responsibilty. Horth;Let me, at least offer you a thoughtful response. I think you make the mistake of thinking that Raila’s presidential candidature is more important than the principles and values which he holds dear and has stood for these many years. Some things will not be sacrificed for political gain. Raila does not have to be president if that means going slow slow on justice and human rights and the fight against impunity. If demanding justice for PEV victims is injurious to Raila Odinga’s presidential candidature, then so be it! I actually admire the fact that Raila has consistently called for these trials even when it might have helped him politically to have them derailed. He supports the trials even if he were to be a suspect. How about that, Horth? Most Kenyans are excited at the prospect of a BIG blow against impunity at The Hague. This is the correct reality for us. Not your selfish and narrow political view, Horth. I believe you are the one who has a narrow view of the reality here. That reality is that Kenya and its greater fight is much, much bigger than any one persons political ambitions. That said, let us remember, Miguna writes in his own capacity and not for Raila or ODM.
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Post by nalinali on Mar 30, 2011 18:15:38 GMT 3
I have been reflecting on this article. It is my opinion that many Jukwaaists including Mank, Adongo, Nalinali, Mosop, kaburwo, Johns, Mwalimumkuu, Kamalet, Chesirecat, Mangai and Commes have all missed the point. They rushed here to criticize Miguna, pretending to know just what kind of article Miguna should have written. You said too much. You hit too hard. Too pungent for my taste. etc Writing is art. And Miguna is a connoisseur. All these critics failed to grasp the import of Migina’s very first sentence: Right there and then Miguna is preparing you for what he is about to say and telling you: I DON’T care what you think and I have NO apologies. In your freaking face. He is deliberate. That, in my opinion, is the quality of a greater social commentator. They do not write what people want to hear and how people want to hear. They do not write to be popular or politically correct. And they are confident in their audience. As a result, Miguna is fast turning out to be one of the most read writers in Kenya! Chinua Achebe, the great African storyteller, in response to a question about why he had to kill Okonkwo, the fateful character in his celebrated novel, Things Fall Apart, responded thus: ‘Write your own book and don’t kill your Okonkwo’ Roughrider You are really struggling to sanitize what is clearly a "yuora nena" kind of commentary. Miguna enjoys all the license (poetic or otherwise) to tweak his pen whichever way he likes. But Miguna is the PM's adviser. If you understood the language we speak in Karachuonyo I would have told you what the idea of "ruoth" really means. Miguna is in a position where the values of discretionary wisdom are held dearly and should cherished at all times. It sad when an adviser to the PM has to begin sorting out factual misstatements, however much of a scintilla such may be. It is indicative of impulsive showy sense of abandon. You attempt to discredit Amherst College on account of the Public-private university divide in Kenya is an indelible mark of ill-exposure on your part. There are currently a good number of Kenyan students that I know of with full Amherst College scholarships and a number are from needy cases. I am an ODM adherent in serious terms but this is not the article I expect from my leader's supposed number one adviser. Uhuru is dancing himself lame before the dance begins, Miguna should not emulate him even as he tries to criticize him. NB: "Yuora nena" is Karachuonyese -Luo for the vacuity of "impulsive showy disposition".
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 18:16:12 GMT 3
“Now The Hague has come, take The Hague quietly.” Thanks for this Adongo; Love her or hate her, she dishes it out like it is!
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Post by roughrider on Mar 30, 2011 18:21:27 GMT 3
You attempt to discredit Amherst College on account of the Public-private university divide in Kenya is an indelible mark of ill-exposure on your part. nalinali; I have to go now but you did not have to insult me to get your point across. It is in fact, true that I am more a villager than anything else. Only by lucky circumstance am I among the privileged town folk here. However we too have wisdom in the village. I think you did not understand what i said earlier - have another go and lets talk tomorrow.
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Post by mzee on Mar 30, 2011 18:33:47 GMT 3
Miguna is free to write whatever he wants. However, how i wish he could be disassociated from the PM. Through some of his articles, he could be doing the PM more harm than good, without realising it. Mangai - actually Miguna writes in his own capacity and each article he writes has a clear caveat that these are his personal views. We should certainly trust that people smart enough to understand Miguna's articles would be clever enough to know that these are his personal views. Incidentally, the PM's greatest adversaries are also of the opinion that Miguna should NOT be in the PM's office. I don't think they are looking for this result for the love of the PM![/b] RR, I like this. Those who hate the PM most (with exception of kuburwo) are the ones asking for Migunas firing. They claim that they are calling for Migunas firing for the PMs good. Really? If Miguna is the stone around the PMs neck that will sink him, why bother take away the stone? I suspect that the hard hitting articles are finally exposing the liars and their lies. Its why they want MM stopped from writing. But Miguna being Miguna will keep on writing.
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2011 18:33:53 GMT 3
OMG how slow can some of yous be? Isn't the sarcasm obvious? I don't think MM's point is to praise his credentials and put schools down. Real arrogant schmucks don't flaunt like that. Try reading between his lines. Madgf, Your's would be sarcastic. ... However MM's article was not so much about sarcasm as to deal Uhuru a blow. The noise you hear is that of an audience reacting to a punch intentionally aimed at below the belt line and center. Even the darling of a tournament could suffer the wrath of the audience with such an unwitty strategy. Miguna's self glorification with what is not all that apparent or appealing, and his discrediting of a duly respectable school, are just things he thought would add to the flavor of the punch. They are nauseating, and it is hard to sit here and see the glorification of such load on this platform. Let anyone bring forward any writing or speech of Steve Bico that this man is equating his filth to, and I will say that Raila is so privileged to have the man for his trusted soldier. Till that happens, I believe Raila should be very concerned about the wits of this trusted soldier and how they might cost him.
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Post by okhunyanye on Mar 30, 2011 18:34:11 GMT 3
Yet another reason why your pieces are a must read for me. The ability to decipher what most bloggers usually miss in their haste to respond to various posts. .... And Miguna is a connoisseur. All these critics failed to grasp the import of Migina’s very first sentence:Right there and then Miguna is preparing you for what he is about to say and telling you: I DON’T care what you think and I have NO apologies. In your freaking face. He is deliberate. That, in my opinion, is the quality of a greater social commentator. They do not write what people want to hear and how people want to hear. They do not write to be popular or politically correct. And they are confident in their audience. As a result, Miguna is fast turning out to be one of the most read writers in Kenya!
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Post by mangai on Mar 30, 2011 18:52:25 GMT 3
Mangai - actually Miguna writes in his own capacity and each article he writes has a clear caveat that these are his personal views. We should certainly trust that people smart enough to understand Miguna's articles would be clever enough to know that these are his personal views. Incidentally, the PM's greatest adversaries are also of the opinion that Miguna should NOT be in the PM's office. I don't think they are looking for this result for the love of the PM! [/b] RR, I like this. Those who hate the PM most (with exception of kuburwo) are the ones asking for Migunas firing. They claim that they are calling for Migunas firing for the PMs good. Really? If Miguna is the stone around the PMs neck that will sink him, why bother take away the stone? I suspect that the hard hitting articles are finally exposing the liars and their lies. Its why they want MM stopped from writing. But Miguna being Miguna will keep on writing. [/quote] Some of us could be liars with our lies. Have you for once cared to figure out why Raila's ratings have been consistently dropping from a high of 48% to the current 33% in opinion polls? Miguna's articles could have helped shape opinion for the better. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to change tact.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 30, 2011 18:59:01 GMT 3
This is getting a little funny. May be we could relax a bit with this. I am sure MM would love that. Poor guy, he gets so many people riled up. I don't think he minds it.
But here we go. copyright to nereah. haha
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Post by kamalet on Mar 30, 2011 20:40:27 GMT 3
This is getting a little funny. May be we could relax a bit with this. I am sure MM would love that. Poor guy, he gets so many people riled up. I don't think he minds it. But here we go. copyright to nereah. haha Yup...Adongo to the rescue! Miguna has been flogged sufficiently and found equally wanting and a liability to his boss that we need to kill this thread with a nice laugh from Youtube! Enjoy and move on guys!
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