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Post by patriotism101 on Mar 31, 2011 21:03:06 GMT 3
Reporter 911 - I understand the difficulty you are having understanding my arguments. I will start the patriotism class by spelling for you the word patriot. It is P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Please repeat this for today until you can memorize the letters.
Tomorrow, we will define the word.
Have a good day/night.
Ends
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 21:03:25 GMT 3
Maniac- I have nothing against RAO - In the context of what i do- I am long RAO for 2012 and short UK and WR. That not withstanding and knowing of bigger fish to fry, there is need stand up and provide adult supervision when your child is out of whack. You dont blame it on the neighbours child and pass the buck - since the neighbours child is calling people names- it is OK for my child to do the same. Now, charity begins at home, and even though am long RAO, I hope I have made my point- he needs to crack the whip from within. Ends. Opps! do you mean KIBAKI NEEDS TO CRACK THE WHIP FROM WITHIN? ...how about kibaki cracking the whip on UHURU KENYATA & MUTHAURA" crimes of humanity commuted against innocent Kenyans? oohhh!! wait KIBAKI himself... crimes of humanity committed against innocent Kenyans - hey which crimes.. kibaki's order to the police to shoot innocent Kenyans in cold blood in broad daylight! others might be waiting for the ICC to find them guilty but those who died are 6ft under and 98% of Kenyans already know who done it!! and they found them guilty in 2007-08 enuff said
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Post by politicalmaniac on Mar 31, 2011 21:06:04 GMT 3
I do not see Kibaki advisors doing the same mudslinging at least Miguna should focus on his job to steer the PM the right way. Oh yeah? Who was jomo jnr referring to as kehee? And whose mother was he talking about when he asked if their wa ninas own the Hague? You and others lambasting Hon Miguna have no idea just how widespread the yearning of justice for the PEV victims and survivors is. They have waited 3 long yrs and finally it seems the perps could get their day in court, a court which they cant manipulate. Its cause to celebrate. Why mourn, and wear sack cloth and gnash teeth and apply ash on the skin? And one jamaa above is already talking about gallows (and we dont even know what KIND of verdict will be issued to the ICC 6). Folks chill out, and let those who want to cheer loudly for justice do so. If you want to bury your head in the sand in solemn silence be my guest!
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 21:06:05 GMT 3
Reporter 911 - I understand the difficulty you are having understanding my arguments. I will start the patriotism class by spelling for you the word patriot. It is P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Please repeat this for today until you can memorize the letters. Tomorrow, we will define the word. Have a good day/night. Ends Not so fast .... Uhuru Kenyatta & Muthaura in your opinion!! guilty as charged for murders of innocent Kenyans or ..... ;D post here the crimes Miguna committed other than shouting from the roof tops that he was attending the ICC Ocampo 6 hearing
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Post by cheshirecat on Mar 31, 2011 21:19:14 GMT 3
Reporter 911- I refuse to remove MM out of the equation. Just as he has a right to express his views, so do I have a right to point out what I think is harming the country. The politics of tit for tat have no place in Kenya. MM bears a higher responsibility to measure his utterances because his words have a direct impact on the lives of Kenyans due to his perceived (rightly or wrongly) proximity to the PM. Other advisors to WR, UK and PNU bear similar responsibilities. Now to argue that his rant is justified because others are doing the same is childish. Such rants reek of arrogance and malice. My espectations are that he should be able to stand on a higher moral ground and help the PM provide leadership in this hard times. Nothing is hard here - He can rant all he want, but dont use the tag-PM advisor-period. Dont be MM sycophant on Jukwaa. Now that the PM has finaly separated from KANU, it is time he embarks on a spring cleanup- by doing away with sycophants like MM - anyone remember Kamotho?. Indeed, the PM has a very unique opportunity to put his house in order before 2012 and reaching out to moderates all over the Country. Ends ;D ;D I knew your true colours would come out!! ATI PATRIOTIC!! get a grip. go patronize Uhuru & Co who are busy threatening other fellow MP's and at large Kenyans with more clashes, I REPEAT MIGUNA has a right as a KENYA CITIZEN tO his own personal opinions PERIOD .. like it or not and he will continuing doing so without anyone's permission including you!! I haven't heard you as patriotic as you claim to be asking for the sacking of UHURU KENYATTA the fact that he has a case to answer in the murders of innocent Kenyans? ala!! or do you believe he is innocent? the MUNGIKI he hired and paid for to commit the heinous crimes don't agree as their sworn affidavits to the ICC!!!, since they were paid and were following orders!! I haven't heard shouting on the roof tops for the sacking of Kibaki or Muthuara or Ali? who gave collectively in 2007-09 the police orders to shoot and kill innocent Kenyans in cold blood!! or do did you support them in these heinous crimes against humanity? Now tell us again why exactly you want Miguna sacked?? is it for uttering the truth on a public forum as a Kenyans citizens? what heinous crimes has Miguna committed to warrant his sacking? lets not parade utter nonsensical wishful thinking on here!! Repota, If you must berate someone for expressing their opinion of Miguna's conduct, you might (humble suggestion) find it more intelligent and less absurd to use other reasons other than the defense of the freedom of expression and opinion.
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Post by patriotism101 on Mar 31, 2011 21:19:41 GMT 3
Reporter 911- I will repeat the upteenth time- MM has committed no crime. My point is that from a cost benefit analysis- he is harming ODM and RAO than he is benefiting the two. Strategically it would be wise for him to take a back seat and advise in the background. He should also be smart enough to have his oped edited by the PM's publicity functionaries everytime he attaches the tag "Advisor to the PM " on his rants.
Thats all am saying - As for UK, Muthaura, blah blah blah- let them face the music- they are irrelevant to my post at this time.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Mar 31, 2011 21:36:39 GMT 3
Reporter 911- I will repeat the upteenth time- MM has committed no crime. My point is that from a cost benefit analysis- he is harming ODM and RAO than he is benefiting the two. . Well the Rt Hon Prime Minister knows better, which side of the bread is buttered. For the Umpteenth time, concern trolling against Hon Miguna is getting a bit stale. All this brouhaha exists only on the web. On the ground, Hon Miguna is appreciated for what he does daily. For example, Had it not been for Hon Miguna, Wako and his PNU folks would have pulled stunts in Kampala sucessfully, that would have enjoined the Nation in dubious schemes to subvert justice.
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Post by patriotism101 on Mar 31, 2011 21:53:57 GMT 3
Politicalmaniac- It is obvious you are taking my comments out of context- I have all the respect and admiration for MM. I respect your see no evil ask no evil attitude- even though dictatorial, I suspect it can work in Libya.
RAO is human and like Kibaki and PNU can only be effective if friends give them honest opinion/advise. Bread and butter issues are best left for breakfast.
Ends
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 22:06:29 GMT 3
Reporter 911- I will repeat the upteenth time- MM has committed no crime. My point is that from a cost benefit analysis- he is harming ODM and RAO than he is benefiting the two. Strategically it would be wise for him to take a back seat and advise in the background. He should also be smart enough to have his oped edited by the PM's publicity functionaries everytime he attaches the tag "Advisor to the PM " on his rants. Thats all am saying - As for UK, Muthaura, blah blah blah- let them face the music- they are irrelevant to my post at this time. Maybe be you should give that advise to Kibaki to advise Uhuru, Muthuara and Co to keep in the background since they seem to need more of that advise than Miguna.. enuff said
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 22:10:26 GMT 3
;D ;D I knew your true colours would come out!! ATI PATRIOTIC!! get a grip. go patronize Uhuru & Co who are busy threatening other fellow MP's and at large Kenyans with more clashes, I REPEAT MIGUNA has a right as a KENYA CITIZEN tO his own personal opinions PERIOD .. like it or not and he will continuing doing so without anyone's permission including you!! I haven't heard you as patriotic as you claim to be asking for the sacking of UHURU KENYATTA the fact that he has a case to answer in the murders of innocent Kenyans? ala!! or do you believe he is innocent? the MUNGIKI he hired and paid for to commit the heinous crimes don't agree as their sworn affidavits to the ICC!!!, since they were paid and were following orders!! I haven't heard shouting on the roof tops for the sacking of Kibaki or Muthuara or Ali? who gave collectively in 2007-09 the police orders to shoot and kill innocent Kenyans in cold blood!! or do did you support them in these heinous crimes against humanity? Now tell us again why exactly you want Miguna sacked?? is it for uttering the truth on a public forum as a Kenyans citizens? what heinous crimes has Miguna committed to warrant his sacking? lets not parade utter nonsensical wishful thinking on here!! Repota, If you must berate someone for expressing their opinion of Miguna's conduct, you might (humble suggestion) find it more intelligent and less absurd to use other reasons other than the defense of the freedom of expression and opinion. who on here or in the democratic republic of kenya has a right to advise Miguna or any other Kenyans for that matter or to ask for their sacking for openly declaring his/her personal opinion as Kenyan citizens on the Ocampo 6? I repeat nobody.. I still maintain every Kenyans has a right to their own opinions but has no right asking others to be sacked or silenced!! period!
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 31, 2011 22:27:10 GMT 3
WHO DARE SAY WHERE THE MORAL BUCK STOPS?
As a matter of fact neither Uhuru nor Ruto directly participated in the alleged murders committed. The allegations are that they facilitated them, planned and logistically made them executable. To date, noises have been made about expelling Ruto, and Ruto himself has made noises about decamping from ODM, but he still remains in it, and as an official no less than deputy party leader.
Now in the sense of everyone his cross to carry, justice in the sense of punishment is individual; but politically in the sense of responsiblity, the buck does tend to stop higher. Miguna having gone to canadian legal ivy-league as he portends, must then be aware that the buck cannot stop by the deputy party leader [Ruto] for crimes committed in political action, unless those alleged crimes were committed purely on a personal basis. They were not.
So while the ruthless expediency of letting Ruto be the fall guy looks a master stroke, and MM can enjoy himself kogoyo sigueya, obolo wach kendo opakore e liend Ruto, --chanting funeral incantations at Rutos political coffin, the moral cowardice of Agwambo in refusing to shoulder part of the moral responsibility is glaring. This nuance has escaped Adongo's best friend in his self-conceited glee! [jaluo in da house]
It is this moral ambiguity which is paralysing ODM, rather than the percieved loss of the Kalenjin voting block.
I notice the intellectual snobism with which MM regards UK. The disdain is no less hateful than UK's tribal slur remarks!
And here is a warning to you would be intellectual snobs. DP, the most ideologically consitent and disciplined party in Kenya, was the brainchild of Njenga Karume. Karume does not boast attendance at any of the top 100 colleges that make up the Shanghai table of top world universities. But like the violence of nature through time shapes a diamond, it is real life that has produced this organisational genius. GEMA was his idea.
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 22:37:19 GMT 3
WHO DARE SAY WHERE THE MORAL BUCK STOPS? As a matter of fact neither Uhuru nor Ruto directly participated in the alleged murders committed. The allegations are that they facilitated them, planned and logistically made them executable. To date, noises have been made about expelling Ruto, and Ruto himself has made noises about decamping from ODM, but he still remains in it, and as an official no less than deputy party leader. Now in the sense of everyone his cross to carry, justice in the sense of punishment is individual; but politically in the sense of responsiblity, the buck does tend to stop higher. Miguna having gone to canadian legal ivy-league as he portends, must then be aware that the buck cannot stop by the deputy party leader [Ruto] for crimes committed in political action, unless those alleged crimes were committed purely on a personal basis. They were not. So while the ruthless expediency of letting Ruto be the fall guy looks a master stroke, and MM can enjoy himself kogoyo sigueya, obolo wach kendo opakore e liend Ruto, --chanting funeral incantations at Rutos political coffin, the moral cowardice of Agwambo in refusing to shoulder part of the moral responsibility is glaring. This nuance has escaped Adongo's best friend in his self-conceited glee! [jaluo in da house] It is this moral ambiguity which is paralysing ODM, rather than the percieved loss of the Kalenjin voting block. I notice the intellectual snobism with which MM regards UK. The disdain is no less hateful than UK's tribal slur remarks! And here is a warning to you would be intellectual snobs. DP, the most ideologically consitent and disciplined party in Kenya, was the brainchild of Njenga Karume. Karume does not boast attendance at any of the top 100 colleges that make up the Shanghai table of top world universities. But like the violence of nature through time shapes a diamond, it is real life that has produced this organisational genius. GEMA was his idea. Usual nonsense ati if you pay a murderer money directly to Kill at your pleasure then when they are caught and confess to being paid to Kill at your pleasure then you are termed not a suspect or guilty.. horse manure!! UHURU KENYATTA PAID & ORGANISED MUNGIKI TO KILL INNOCENT KENYANS!!, KIBAKI, MUTHAURA, ALI GAVE ORDERS TO THE POLICE TO SHOOT AND KILL INNOCENT KENYANS.. THE BUCK STOPS WITH THEM..
RUTO ORDERED THE BURNING OF THE KIAMBAA CHURCH AND PAID HIS GANGS TO KILL INNOCENT KENYANS THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM.. the whistle blowers/witness will meet them at the ICChas the ICC summoned Miguna or the PM for committing crimes against humanity? a resounding "NO" and yes KENYANS DEMAND EVERYONE CARRY THEIR OWN CROSS!! propaganda and huffing and puffing will get the supporters of these evil murderers nowhere mark my words... they will be locked up and the keys thrown away.. even Wambui Kibaki wife number 2 can see it coming hense her public utterancing threatening the ICC ;D ;D
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Post by Luol Deng on Mar 31, 2011 23:05:00 GMT 3
I have always held the opinion that Miguna is a liability to the PM. I posted a while back that he should stay above the fray in matters of partisan politics. The main problem is that he always sees it fit to spar with anyone who is a real or perceived opponent.
For the sake of illustration let us take a rural setting, a typical office or any other social context. We always like to talk politics, but very few people ever take the opportunity to read political news. Almost everybody on the other hand is always willing to chip in with an idea. Assuming I read Miguna's op-ed then I decide to summarise it to my buddies, what will I do? I will go for the catchy stuff, the jabs against Uhuru, the commercial colleges, etc. I will never bother with the last line that appears in practically all of Miguna op-eds that the "opinions expressed are his own". Whenever anyone sees Miguna speaking, the first thing that comes to mind is that he is the PM's advisor whether he says that the opinions expressed are his own or not. Whenever there is a promotion on say the Safaricom network, they may say that it costs 2 bob a minute to call, at the bottom they always say terms & conditions apply. Whenever that is communicated from person to person, it is the 2 bob per minute that will be stressed! Most people will never bother to communicate the "terms and conditions apply" bit. So, whenever a Miguna article is read, the immediate reaction will be "this is the PM's advisor writing", they will never bother with the "opinions are his own" bit.
To expand the above scenario. Let us be more specific. If Miguna's story is being analysed in the die hard ODM areas, people will be overjoyed. After all, any point against an opponent is always welcome. It is a message that appeals to the "already converted". When his message is being discussed in more moderate surroundings, the reaction will be totally different. There is an arrogant and patronizing streak in most of his articles. I have already heard them being discussed in my office back in Nairobi by people I perceive as moderates, they have never been impressed. There was a saying in the life of the last parliament that whenever Kiraitu opens his mouth to speak, Kibaki loses 30,000 votes. The same may be happening to Raila due to Miguna's recklessness.
Miguna has his rights, that is not in question. But his boss, Raila, is a politician and those around him will invariably enhance or tarnish his image. In Miguna's case, does he enhance or tarnish Raila's image? With all the incessant sniping, berating of others qualifications while placing his own on a pedestal will never earn the PM any followers.
I generally despise prof. Kivutha Kibwana. Like Miguna, he is an advisor to one of the principals on coalition affairs. There are a few things that he has gotten right where Miguna has failed. Other than outfoxing Miguna on the basis of advice, he decided to shut up. Yes, this is the same Kibwana who stormed a private ranch. The same Kibwana who during the NARC grassroots recruitment claimed to the peasants that the NARC membership card can be used as a certificate of good conduct, collateral for bank loans and all that kind of bullsh*t. This time as an advisor, he has decided to shut up, and that has spared Kibaki some problems. Miguna likewise should shut up, those rants of his are not adding an iota of value to the PM's cause.
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 31, 2011 23:20:03 GMT 3
I have always held the opinion that Miguna is a liability to the PM. I posted a while back that he should stay above the fray in matters of partisan politics. The main problem is that he always sees it fit to spar with anyone who is a real or perceived opponent. For the sake of illustration let us take a rural setting, a typical office or any other social context. We always like to talk politics, but very few people ever take the opportunity to read political news. Almost everybody on the other hand is always willing to chip in with an idea. Assuming I read Miguna's op-ed then I decide to summarise it to my buddies, what will I do? I will go for the catchy stuff, the jabs against Uhuru, the commercial colleges, etc. I will never bother with the last line that appears in practically all of Miguna op-eds that the "opinions expressed are his own". Whenever anyone sees Miguna speaking, the first thing that comes to mind is that he is the PM's advisor whether he says that the opinions expressed are his own or not. Whenever there is a promotions on say the Safaricom network, they may say that it costs 2 bob a minute to call, at the bottom they always say terms & conditions apply. Whenever that is communicated from person to person, it is the 2 bob per minute that will be stressed! Most people will never bother to communicate the "terms and conditions apply" bit. So, whenever a Miguna article is read, the immediate reaction will be "this is the PM's advisor writing", they will never bother with the "opinions are his own" bit. To expand the above scenario. Let us be more specific. If Miguna's story is being analysed in the die hard ODM areas, people will be overjoyed. After all, any point against an opponent is always welcome. It is a message that appeals to the "already converted". When his message is being discussed in more moderate surroundings, the reaction will be totally different. There is an arrogant and patronizing streak in most of his articles. I have already heard them being discussed in my office back in Nairobi by people I perceive as moderates, they have never been impressed. There was a saying in the life of the last parliament that whenever Kiraitu opens his mouth to speak, Kibaki loses 30,000 votes. The same may be happening to Raila due to Miguna's recklessness. Miguna has his rights, that is not in question. But his boss, Raila, is a politician and those around him will invariably enhance or tarnish his image. In Miguna's case, does he enhance or tarnish Raila's image? With all the incessant sniping, berating of others qualifications while placing his own on a pedestal will never earn the PM any followers. I generally despise prof. Kivutha Kibwana. Like Miguna, he is an advisor to one of the principals on coalition affairs. There are a few things that he has gotten right where Miguna has failed. Other than outfoxing Miguna on the basis of advice, he decided to shut up. Yes, this is the same Kibwana who stormed a private ranch. The same Kibwana who during the NARC grassroots recruitment claimed to the peasants that the NARC membership card can be used as a certificate of good conduct, collateral for bank loans and all that kind of bullsh*t. This time as an advisor, he has decided to shut up, and that has spared Kibaki some problems. Miguna likewise should shut up, those rants of his are not adding an iota of value to the PM's cause. where does it say in that one has to toe the line for his/her boss? lets not try to preach Uhuru/Kibaki toe the line or else we will hunt you door to door and bring you down politics on Kenyans!! even Gaddafi tried that Sh---t and look where it has got him? the citizens spoke resoundingly and acted upon it.. that is the beauty of people having their own opinion having the freedom of presenting them. Miguna does his job as anyone of us, some people are advisers to statesmen and presidents, CEO name it.. but that is a job, but when it comes to other matters example of murderers and individuals that have committed heinous crimes to the society of citizens of their countries, damn right they will speak out loudly even if those accused of murder are their bosses best buddies! who the hell tries to silence the voices of reason or the truth? then those people are delusional.. Miguna and every other Kenyans must speak up.. it is not about the PM and his position or Miguna as the PM's adviser on this issue! it is not about losing votes! if that were the case then the PM would have kept quite on Ocampo 6 to save votes in the RIFT VALLEY - where one of the ocampo 6 namely Ruto has promised to campaign against his own party ODM his threats are directed at the PM... Miguna's personal opinion was in regards to the Ocampo 6 and if that makes the PM lose votes then good riddance! because any Kenyans supporting these murderers should take their votes to them!
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Post by Luol Deng on Mar 31, 2011 23:45:33 GMT 3
Reporter,
Let us be very clear. No one is condoning impunity here. No one has asked anyone to keep quiet or go slow on the heinous crimes that have been committed. It is one thing to expose impunity, it is another thing to start bragging about your CV, berating other people, etc.
There is something we call tact, Miguna seems to be lacking it. When it comes to the Ocampo 6, Miguna has not given us a single new thing that wasn't in the public domain, so the point of being muzzled doesn't arise
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Post by njamba on Apr 1, 2011 1:18:12 GMT 3
Luoldeny you have hit the nail on the head the man is ranting and raving about non issues while his peers are busy at work
ODM must ask PM to relive this man of his role his way above his head on this.
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Post by johns on Apr 1, 2011 3:18:01 GMT 3
I don't understand why people are creating this unnecessary noise over Migunas advisory role to the PM. It is out of order for us people to be advising ODM what is to be done to Miguna. My only concern as far as Miguna is; he should stop using his attachment to the Prime Ministers office wherever he opines a personal article.
The Prime Minister is a politician who need votes from everywhere to get elected, it does not hurt if avoidance of perception is only limited to those who can not be changed by facts and would never support him regardless.
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 1, 2011 3:27:32 GMT 3
Reporter, Let us be very clear. No one is condoning impunity here. No one has asked anyone to keep quiet or go slow on the heinous crimes that have been committed. It is one thing to expose impunity, it is another thing to start bragging about your CV, berating other people, etc. There is something we call tact, Miguna seems to be lacking it. When it comes to the Ocampo 6, Miguna has not given us a single new thing that wasn't in the public domain, so the point of being muzzled doesn't arise My problem with your comments on Miguna is that they are uncalled for why can't he brag? doesn't he have a right to do so if he chooses to? why does it affect or offend you? who has denied you bragging rights? you can do so if you to do so.. and one wants to tell anyone off regarding their CV or lack of education why shouldn't they? last I checked this is a free world!! Migina has a right to view his opinions in whatever way he chooses to do and if anyone does not agree with them then say what you have to say and move on but calling for his sacking and asking him to shut up ain't happening.. all Kenyans have a right to their own opinions and bragging rights the last time I checked it was not against the Law!!of the land.. and if Miguna's opinions and views offends some too bad enuff said!!
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Post by mank on Apr 1, 2011 3:32:20 GMT 3
alrighty then mank in the final analysis, isn't this why jukwaa is great? ask me why!How filthy is this gonna get? Is this kind of writing by any chance the stuff we are usually referring to when we talk of Jukwaa being great? ..... people actually believe it when we glorify Jukwaa. TNK, I bow to that. But e-blood was spilt on this thread to be where we are - how many times did someone helplessly try to kill the thread? And how many times have these one star-posters been profiled as mashada splinters? So, YES, because new blood is good.
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 1, 2011 3:34:03 GMT 3
I don't understand why people are creating this unnecessary noise over Migunas advisory role to the PM. It is out of order for us people to be advising ODM what is to be done to Miguna. My only concern as far as Miguna is; he should stop using his attachment to the Prime Ministers office wherever he opines a personal article. The Prime Minister is a politician who need votes from everywhere to get elected, it does not hurt if avoidance of perception is only limited to those who can not be changed by facts and would never support him regardless. Miguna commented in his personal capacity and it has nothing to do with his Job as the PM's adviser lets get it straight ... if he wants to scream and shout from mountain tops about the Ocampo 6 murderers of innocent Kenyans citizens he has the right to do so period... ati his position at the PM's office yada!!yada!! connecting it with votes? is that a threat? The PM does not need votes from Murderers they better keep them and I bet he prefers Kenyans to voice their own opinions in regards to the OCAMPO 6 MURDERERS OPENLY this includes is advisers Miguna!! the nonsenses being peddled around here ati by the fact that Miguna shared his personal opinions with the whole world would affect the PM politically is utter nonsense!enuff said!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 1, 2011 3:41:49 GMT 3
Luoldeny you have hit the nail on the head the man is ranting and raving about non issues while his peers are busy at work ODM must ask PM to relive this man of his role his way above his head on this. Wishful thinking on the part of Miguna being sacked ;D and if I were you I would concentrate on asking or begging Kibaki to sack the Murderers from his cabinet/PNU lame party.. 1. Uhuru Kenyatta wanted for murder " hiring. paying and organizing mungiki gang to kill, rape, burn innocent kenyans 2. Muthaura, Commissioner Ali " organizing and giving orders to the police to shoot and Kill innocent Kenyans... damn what is Kibaki waiting for? these guys are already a finish case " i guess kibaki knows why he is keeping them around! ahem!! is it because he was part of the police orders given out? the answers to this questions will be clearer at the HAGUE!!! WACHA TUU ;D
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Post by nalinali on Apr 1, 2011 3:43:52 GMT 3
Reporter, Let us be very clear. No one is condoning impunity here. No one has asked anyone to keep quiet or go slow on the heinous crimes that have been committed. It is one thing to expose impunity, it is another thing to start bragging about your CV, berating other people, etc. There is something we call tact, Miguna seems to be lacking it. When it comes to the Ocampo 6, Miguna has not given us a single new thing that wasn't in the public domain, so the point of being muzzled doesn't arise My problem with your comments on Miguna is that they are uncalled for why can't he brag? doesn't he have a right to do so if he chooses to? why does it affect or offend you? who has denied you bragging rights? you can do so if you to do so.. and one wants to tell anyone off regarding their CV or lack of education why shouldn't they? last I checked this is a free world!! Migina has a right to view his opinions in whatever way he chooses to do and if anyone does not agree with them then say what you have to say and move on but calling for his sacking and asking him to shut up ain't happening.. all Kenyans have a right to their own opinions and bragging rights the last time I checked it was not against the Law!!of the land.. and if Miguna's opinions and views offends some too bad enuff said!! Reporter Your defense of Miguna is admirable, but stop and reflect on whether or not pointing out the excesses of one Op-ed piece translates into hatred of Miguna and/or ODM and/or Raila. Unless stated it would be unfair to weave all that is being said about this article into a subject for dimorphic flaunting of them-versus us play book. It does not work that way and it is simplistic. Seems to me most of the views expressed mainly against Miguna's stylistic template in respect of this singular piece came from all sides and one is not necessarily wishing the worst of ODM by doing so. It may be time for you to chill out before the ennui of your defense becomes contagious. You have said enough. Relax.
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Post by Luol Deng on Apr 1, 2011 3:51:17 GMT 3
Reporter, Let us be very clear. No one is condoning impunity here. No one has asked anyone to keep quiet or go slow on the heinous crimes that have been committed. It is one thing to expose impunity, it is another thing to start bragging about your CV, berating other people, etc. There is something we call tact, Miguna seems to be lacking it. When it comes to the Ocampo 6, Miguna has not given us a single new thing that wasn't in the public domain, so the point of being muzzled doesn't arise My problem with your comments on Miguna is that they are uncalled for why can't he brag? doesn't he have a right to do so if he chooses to? why does it affect or offend you? who has denied you bragging rights? you can do so if you to do so.. and one wants to tell anyone off regarding their CV or lack of education why shouldn't they? last I checked this is a free world!! Migina has a right to view his opinions in whatever way he chooses to do and if anyone does not agree with them then say what you have to say and move on but calling for his sacking and asking him to shut up ain't happening.. all Kenyans have a right to their own opinions and bragging rights the last time I checked it was not against the Law!!of the land.. and if Miguna's opinions and views offends some too bad enuff said!! Reporter, Remember that I am not questioning his rights as a writer. He may write all the tripe he chooses to. What I am saying is that by the virtue of the position he holds in ODM, what he does will have a direct impact on the party. If we take two MPs from PNU. Kareke Mbiuki & Mutava Musyimi, they are most probably of the same political persuasion. While one may listen to Musyimi, none of that courtesy will be extended to Mbiuki. Why? Have you listened to them? It is the tact and dignity that one handles themselves with that endears them to the populace. Miguna is probably the most tactless high profile ODMer and a liability to the party. We don't question his credentials or his writing abilities. To me most of the credentials mean nothing, after all, Kiraitu Murungi is a Harvard old boy.......
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 1, 2011 3:54:42 GMT 3
My problem with your comments on Miguna is that they are uncalled for why can't he brag? doesn't he have a right to do so if he chooses to? why does it affect or offend you? who has denied you bragging rights? you can do so if you to do so.. and one wants to tell anyone off regarding their CV or lack of education why shouldn't they? last I checked this is a free world!! Migina has a right to view his opinions in whatever way he chooses to do and if anyone does not agree with them then say what you have to say and move on but calling for his sacking and asking him to shut up ain't happening.. all Kenyans have a right to their own opinions and bragging rights the last time I checked it was not against the Law!!of the land.. and if Miguna's opinions and views offends some too bad enuff said!! Reporter Your defense of Miguna is admirable, but stop and wonder whether pointing out the excesses of one Oped piece translates into hatred of Miguna and or ODM and Raila. Unless stated it would be unfair to weave all that is being said about this article into a subject for dimorphic flaunting of them-versus us play book. It does not work that way and it is simplistic. Seems to me most of the views expressed mainly against Miguna's stylistic template in respect of this singular piece came from all sides and one is not necessarily wishing the worst of ODM by doing so. It may be time for you to chill out before the ennui of your defense becomes contagious. You have said enough. Relax. nalinali Jukwaa is a free forum everyone has a right to post and you don't have to read my posts, any posts on here I feel like replying to I will do so with pleasure.. it is not about ODM or PNU supporters here.. get it right .. I post here as an individual and will continue doing so.. ati ODM & PNU supporters agree on Miguna's criticisms on here.. well that is their prerogative ... Miguna like any other citizen of Kenya has a right to his/her personal opinion and I will keep repeating... you don't like it then too bad .. chill out!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 1, 2011 4:05:12 GMT 3
My problem with your comments on Miguna is that they are uncalled for why can't he brag? doesn't he have a right to do so if he chooses to? why does it affect or offend you? who has denied you bragging rights? you can do so if you to do so.. and one wants to tell anyone off regarding their CV or lack of education why shouldn't they? last I checked this is a free world!! Migina has a right to view his opinions in whatever way he chooses to do and if anyone does not agree with them then say what you have to say and move on but calling for his sacking and asking him to shut up ain't happening.. all Kenyans have a right to their own opinions and bragging rights the last time I checked it was not against the Law!!of the land.. and if Miguna's opinions and views offends some too bad enuff said!! Reporter, Remember that I am not questioning his rights as a writer. He may write all the tripe he chooses to. What I am saying is that by the virtue of the position he holds in ODM, what he does will have a direct impact on the party. If we take two MPs from PNU. Kareke Mbiuki & Mutava Musyimi, they are most probably of the same political persuasion. While one may listen to Musyimi, none of that courtesy will be extended to Mbiuki. Why? Have you listened to them? It is the tact and dignity that one handles themselves with that endears them to the populace. Miguna is probably the most tactless high profile ODMer and a liability to the party. We don't question his credentials or his writing abilities. To me most of the credentials mean nothing, after all, Kiraitu Murungi is a Harvard old boy....... utter rubbish, if it means by Miguna stating his personal opinions as a Kenyan citizen just like all other ODM members are speaking out the in regards to the OCAMPO 6 murderers will have an impact on ODM AS A PARTY? ouch!! where have i heard that threat before? yes From RUTO & CO IN THE RIFT VALLEY..sorry that won't WASH.. propaganda galo!!, if that were the case then the PM would not be firm in his believe that the ICC is the best option for the Ocampo 6 for now, knowingly that his stand on the Ocampo 6 facing the Hague would deny him votes in the RIFT VALLEY.. give me another argument why Miguna should not voice his personal opinions in regards to the OCAMPO 6 not the crap on what impact his personal opinions would have on ODM as a party because that is utter nonsense!! tact and dignity? lets not even go there.. try that advise on Uhuru and Kibaki they need it.. more! they have ZERO! and if Miguna wants to BRAG about his CV he can do so.. he earned it.. like any other Kenyans who might feel the urge to BRAG i say go for it! if you have earned it!! enuff said!
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