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Post by kamalet on Aug 15, 2012 15:50:40 GMT 3
....civilised disagreement that is subsequently resolved!
now compare that with the primitive violence seen a few days ago!
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Post by b6k on Aug 15, 2012 15:53:29 GMT 3
Phil, I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that Citizen News is reporting "poor voter turnout & delayed voting" at the TNA polling stations in Kajiado & Kangema... Well well well. People living in glass houses....! Just like it happened on the day of launching this party, financial muscle is on display at TNA so called electronic tallying for party nominations. In fact nominations in Kangema were suspended because candidates disagreed and in Kajiado voters have been imported by someone who is hell bent on installing Ole Sakuda as TNA candidate. Prof Saitoti must be turning in his grave because as PNU Chairman, he would have expected PNU alliance parties to line up behind a candidate nominated by PNU especially for this Kajiado North parliamentary seat. Talk of dancing on people's graves! TNA nominations amounts to nothing but showbiz TNA nominations in Kangema delayed as aspirants differ over registerTNA supporters queue to vote at Kangema Social Hall during the party nominations August 15, 2012. The exercise was delayed for three hours after aspirants failed to agree on the registers to conduct the poll. NATION MEDIA GROUP By SAMUEL KARANJA Posted Wednesday, August 15 2012 at 12:50 IN SUMMARY Aspirants disagree on register to use in carrying out nominations. Party had promised to use both TNA membership and IEBC registers. Voting starts after aspirants settle on the IEBC register. The National Alliance (TNA) nominations in Kangema were delayed in some polling stations after candidates disagreed on the register to conduct the process. Confusion reigned after it emerged that one register was missing leading to a heated debate among aspirants Muturi Kigano, Ann Kirima, Tirus Ngahu and Macharia Gatitu. On Tuesday, the party had promised it would use its membership register and one from the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) but failed to do so. A TNA party official, Kariuki Mate, said the TNA membership register could not be used as it had very few members.
“We can only use the IEBC register as our membership register has only 10,000 members and we feel these are very few,” he said.
He was supported by Mr Ngahu, Mrs Kirima and Mr Gatitu but Mr Kigano resisted the move saying the exercise was prone to rigging. “This cannot happen, the party promised to use two registers even in our meeting with Uhuru (Kenyatta) and using only one register is equal to rigging,” said Mr Kigano at Kangema Social Hall as his supporters cheered. Voting which was supposed to begin at 6:00 am was delayed in Nyakahura, Mugechi, Muguru, Gee Three, Kiahiti, Karugia, Kirika, Gacharaigu, Ihigai-ini, Kiarathe, Kahuti and Gitugu polling stations among others. Chaos almost erupted after the angry voters confronted area DC Fred Muli for threatening to arrest Mr Kigano for allegedly attempting to "stop" voting. Mr Kigano also accused the provincial administration of interfering with the nomination exercise arguing that they were out to rig the results. “On what grounds are you arresting me, these are not Kanu days when the government used to meddle with elections and intimidate voters and contestants,” Mr Kigano shouted at the DC and his security detail. He said he was aware that the provincial administration was favouring a certain candidate. The DC was forced to leave the venue immediately as angry supporters started heckling. Mr Kigano’s supporters claimed that there were plans to rig the nominations after the presiding officer decided to change the nomination rules. He asked voters to snub the exercise citing that the changes were introduced to rig the nominations. However, voting started after aspirants settle on the IEBC register. The seat fell vacant following the death of long-serving MP John Michuki. The by-election is slated for September 17.
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Post by topnotch on Aug 15, 2012 16:04:09 GMT 3
TNA will conduct its nomination for Kajiado North tomorrow. The party will use electronic tallying. Here is a glimpse of their tallying centre. Jeff, This is not 'electronic tallying of votes' What TNA is doing here is nowhere near that. This is simply a laptop and a projector. The results will be sent via phone texts to the guys you see in this from, they wil use ordinary calculators to add them up as they come...and display them using the projector.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Aug 15, 2012 16:25:19 GMT 3
TNA will conduct its nomination for Kajiado North tomorrow. The party will use electronic tallying. Here is a glimpse of their tallying centre. Jeff, This is not 'electronic tallying of votes' What TNA is doing here is nowhere near that. This is simply a laptop and a projector. The results will be sent via phone texts to the guys you see in this from, they wil use ordinary calculators to add them up as they come...and display them using the projector. ;D ;D ;D
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by jeff on Aug 15, 2012 16:27:21 GMT 3
TNA will conduct its nomination for Kajiado North tomorrow. The party will use electronic tallying. Here is a glimpse of their tallying centre. Jeff, This is not 'electronic tallying of votes' What TNA is doing here is nowhere near that. This is simply a laptop and a projector. The results will be sent via phone texts to the guys you see in this from, they wil use ordinary calculators to add them up as they come...and display them using the projector. topnotch,
The idea is that the results will be streamed live as they are confirmed at the polling stations. I think we should give it to these guys for coming up with such a transparent system to relay results. Anybody interested in the results will see them here: tna.co.ke/live-stream/ from 5pm Kenyan time. Phil,
This is the first time any political party has carried out such a transparent nomination vote tallying process. Just like ODM was the first to do an American style presidential bid launch in 2007. Something to be emulated by others.
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Post by tnk on Aug 15, 2012 16:29:02 GMT 3
....civilised disagreement that is subsequently resolved! now compare that with the primitive violence seen a few days ago! heavy words these my side civilised, your side primitive stereotypes
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jeff
Full Member
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Post by jeff on Aug 15, 2012 16:34:41 GMT 3
List of Candidates - The National Alliance Nominations
The National Alliance Nominations are currently ongoing across the country. The following are the candidates vying in the various areas across the country. You can follow the live updates from the party HeadQuarters here (TNA Nominations) as the results start coming in… Constituencies:
Kangema Constituency
1. Tiras Ngahu Nyingi 2. Ann Kirima 3. Samuel Gatitu 4. Duncan Githiga 5. Muturi Kigano 6. Andrew Kamenju 7. Simon Kamau Kajiado North Constituency
1. Francis Parsimei 2. Moses Ole Sakuda 3. Joseph Manje
Ndhiwa Constituency
1. Rumo Rosemary 2. Odhiambo Okoth Maurice 3. Meshark Odundo
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Post by raiswakesho on Aug 15, 2012 17:33:30 GMT 3
The TNA live streaming is so poor but the effort is encouraging.
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Post by raiswakesho on Aug 15, 2012 17:39:24 GMT 3
Will TNA be able to execute the same during the main party nominations? That will be excellente if they can pull it off & other parties will have no choice but to embrace the same. We can always learn from each other ama? One Nation under God...
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Post by b6k on Aug 15, 2012 18:02:07 GMT 3
Will TNA be able to execute the same during the main party nominations? That will be excellente if they can pull it off & other parties will have no choice but to embrace the same. We can always learn from each other ama? One Nation under God... Indeed Raiswakesho. Let us embrace technology & make our political processes available to the public in a transparent manner. It matters little where the innovation comes from as long as the others follow....
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Post by tnk on Aug 15, 2012 19:56:15 GMT 3
Will TNA be able to execute the same during the main party nominations? That will be excellente if they can pull it off & other parties will have no choice but to embrace the same. We can always learn from each other ama? One Nation under God... Indeed Raiswakesho. Let us embrace technology & make our political processes available to the public in a transparent manner. It matters little where the innovation comes from as long as the others follow.... from these images am unable to see what you guys call transparent do you call beaming tallied results transparency or the fact that they have projectors and laptops and what nots the problem with national elections is that somewhere between the tallying centers, figures get fixed before the final tally these images are showing the final stage, cooking can take place long before the images are beamed onto a screen and lets be real, party nominations unless its a popular party are really very small events and especially for by-elections. am sure TNA has done a lot in ensuring transparency from polling center to final central tally center and am sure we can all learn from it, but what am pointing out here is that some of you guys appear to equate a large screen projection to transparency, i probably missed something here
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euonyi
Full Member
Me, myself and I
Posts: 179
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Post by euonyi on Aug 15, 2012 21:23:52 GMT 3
from these images am unable to see what you guys call transparent do you call beaming tallied results transparency or the fact that they have projectors and laptops and what nots the problem with national elections is that somewhere between the tallying centers, figures get fixed before the final tally these images are showing the final stage, cooking can take place long before the images are beamed onto a screen and lets be real, party nominations unless its a popular party are really very small events and especially for by-elections. am sure TNA has done a lot in ensuring transparency from polling center to final central tally center and am sure we can all learn from it, but what am pointing out here is that some of you guys appear to equate a large screen projection to transparency, i probably missed something here hear, hear, hear!!
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Post by b6k on Aug 15, 2012 22:12:43 GMT 3
Indeed Raiswakesho. Let us embrace technology & make our political processes available to the public in a transparent manner. It matters little where the innovation comes from as long as the others follow.... from these images am unable to see what you guys call transparent do you call beaming tallied results transparency or the fact that they have projectors and laptops and what nots the problem with national elections is that somewhere between the tallying centers, figures get fixed before the final tally these images are showing the final stage, cooking can take place long before the images are beamed onto a screen and lets be real, party nominations unless its a popular party are really very small events and especially for by-elections. am sure TNA has done a lot in ensuring transparency from polling center to final central tally center and am sure we can all learn from it, but what am pointing out here is that some of you guys appear to equate a large screen projection to transparency, i probably missed something here TNK, if as you say figures can be cooked well before they are beamed onto those screens doesn't it show you the futility of conducting ANY elections at all? After all, can't the actual rigging take place well before the election in backroom deals? When Anyang' Nyong'o slithered his way into parliament by dint of getting a direct nomination, much to the consternation of his Kisumu Rural constituents who didn't want anything to do with him, wasn't that the highest order of "cooking"? Wasn't this rigging & stifling the voice of the people in order to get a man who was close to Jakom in the ODM lineup? Or is it ok when it our man cooking the nominations exercise so that we can have the dream team in the general elections? Don't hate the player.....hate the game ;D
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Post by raiswakesho on Aug 16, 2012 0:04:13 GMT 3
I have a problem with folks who can't make a point without drawing in RAO's name.
Nway, the problem with party elections be it manual or electronic, is the vested interest by the bigwigs. The big cats go out in broad daylight preaching transparency and fairness but as soon as darkness kicks, they sit around big tables sippin I don't know what as they draw lists of who should be what especially in key electoral units.
We must all wake up and accept democracy but more importantly, we must be men & women of integrity at all times. The representatives of the people ought to be elected by the people in a fair election and right from party nominations through the general election.
Lastly, Kenyans must learn to be civil and avoid ugly scenes like what we saw in Ndhiwa.
Congratulations to those who won the nominations!
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Post by patriotism101 on Aug 16, 2012 7:20:42 GMT 3
The confusion witnessed in the just concluded primaries by ODM and TNA is a pointer of the problems the parties and IEBC will face come the general election.
That the two parties with such financial resources could bungle what seems to be a straight forward exercise beats logic, but begs the question, does polictics in Kenyan thrive on chaos?
ODM and (indeed TNA Kanegema nd Kajiado) had a chance to design and use the Ndhiwa primary as a model of how they plan to carry out the general election primaries in a transparent and a fair manner yet they bungled the process so badly it send chills down the spines of potetial contenders. Atleast TNA woodwinked RAISWAKESHO and JEFF with their laptops and projectors to showcase "transparency" in the process, a PR execise which gives it an "edge" in the eyes of the village opinion leaders.
But is the presence of a laptop and a projector in a tallying center and indicator of transparency in the process? Is this any different if the local Math teacher tallied the results on a chalk board in the tallying center? RAISWAKESHO thinks the laptop and projector is a step in the right direction. I think that is BS. It is better to tally the results on the dust board than on a laptop where someone is able to manipulate the numbers and then project them to the public on a projector giving them some legitimacy they dont have. Electronic tallying does not mean a laptop and a projector.
Electronic tallying means that from the moment a vote is cast , the computer takes over and tallies votes as they are cast to the last registered voter. A report is generated when polls close and based on that report, the winner and losers are/ can be determined. In essence, human intervention is zilch. Electronic tallying, thorectically cannot happen if the voter register is not electronic because the system needs to check votes cast against the register to ensure the voter is registered. The voter register data dump therefore becomes a control to enusre that there are no ghost voters.
So JEFF and RAIWAKESHO, stop being clueless.
Senti 5
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Post by b6k on Aug 16, 2012 7:33:03 GMT 3
I have a problem with folks who can't make a point without drawing in RAO's name. Nway, the problem with party elections be it manual or electronic, is the vested interest by the bigwigs. The big cats go out in broad daylight preaching transparency and fairness but as soon as darkness kicks, they sit around big tables sippin I don't know what as they draw lists of who should be what especially in key electoral units. We must all wake up and accept democracy but more importantly, we must be men & women of integrity at all times. The representatives of the people ought to be elected by the people in a fair election and right from party nominations through the general election. Lastly, Kenyans must learn to be civil and avoid ugly scenes like what we saw in Ndhiwa. Congratulations to those who won the nominations! Good to see you appreciated the point of the argument all the same judging from your big cats missive. That's all that matters ;D
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Post by b6k on Aug 16, 2012 7:43:38 GMT 3
The confusion witnessed in the just concluded primaries by ODM and TNA is a pointer of the problems the parties and IEBC will face come the general election. That the two parties with such financial resources could bungle what seems to be a straight forward exercise beats logic, but begs the question, does polictics in Kenyan thrive on chaos? ODM and (indeed TNA Kanegema nd Kajiado) had a chance to design and use the Ndhiwa primary as a model of how they plan to carry out the general election primaries in a transparent and a fair manner yet they bungled the process so badly it send chills down the spines of potetial contenders. Atleast TNA woodwinked RAISWAKESHO and JEFF with their laptops and projectors to showcase "transparency" in the process, a PR execise which gives it an "edge" in the eyes of the village opinion leaders. But is the presence of a laptop and a projector in a tallying center and indicator of transparency in the process? Is this any different if the local Math teacher tallied the results on a chalk board in the tallying center? RAISWAKESHO thinks the laptop and projector is a step in the right direction. I think that is BS. It is better to tally the results on the dust board than on a laptop where someone is able to manipulate the numbers and then project them to the public on a projector giving them some legitimacy they dont have. Electronic tallying does not mean a laptop and a projector. Electronic tallying means that from the moment a vote is cast , the computer takes over and tallies votes as they are cast to the last registered voter. A report is generated when polls close and based on that report, the winner and losers are/ can be determined. In essence, human intervention is zilch. Electronic tallying, thorectically cannot happen if the voter register is not electronic because the system needs to check votes cast against the register to ensure the voter is registered. The voter register data dump therefore becomes a control to enusre that there are no ghost voters. So JEFF and RAIWAKESHO, stop being clueless. Senti 5 P101, as Stalin said, "those who votes decide nothing; those who count the vote decide everything". Any electoral system can be manipulated. Electronic voting is even easier to manipulate than manual voting as there is no paper trail to follow should there be a query. What we need is an truly INDEPENDENT & honest IEBC. To see how Jeb Bush in the past rigged elections & how the 2004 Ohio results were hacked into watch the following. Human intervention can be easily accomplished at the Source Code level:
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Post by kamalet on Aug 16, 2012 14:43:29 GMT 3
Former ODM man wins TNA nomination in Kajiado North in a very peaceful nomination exercise!
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Aug 16, 2012 15:29:56 GMT 3
Former ODM man wins TNA nomination in Kajiado North in a very peaceful nomination exercise! Very good for the former ODM man. He was wise to run away from the party of death at the time that he did. He is now in good company in one of the most progressive parties in the country at the monent.
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Post by raiswakesho on Aug 16, 2012 16:44:32 GMT 3
The confusion witnessed in the just concluded primaries by ODM and TNA is a pointer of the problems the parties and IEBC will face come the general election. That the two parties with such financial resources could bungle what seems to be a straight forward exercise beats logic, but begs the question, does polictics in Kenyan thrive on chaos? ODM and (indeed TNA Kanegema nd Kajiado) had a chance to design and use the Ndhiwa primary as a model of how they plan to carry out the general election primaries in a transparent and a fair manner yet they bungled the process so badly it send chills down the spines of potetial contenders. Atleast TNA woodwinked RAISWAKESHO and JEFF with their laptops and projectors to showcase "transparency" in the process, a PR execise which gives it an "edge" in the eyes of the village opinion leaders. But is the presence of a laptop and a projector in a tallying center and indicator of transparency in the process? Is this any different if the local Math teacher tallied the results on a chalk board in the tallying center? RAISWAKESHO thinks the laptop and projector is a step in the right direction. I think that is BS. It is better to tally the results on the dust board than on a laptop where someone is able to manipulate the numbers and then project them to the public on a projector giving them some legitimacy they dont have. Electronic tallying does not mean a laptop and a projector. Electronic tallying means that from the moment a vote is cast , the computer takes over and tallies votes as they are cast to the last registered voter. A report is generated when polls close and based on that report, the winner and losers are/ can be determined. In essence, human intervention is zilch. Electronic tallying, thorectically cannot happen if the voter register is not electronic because the system needs to check votes cast against the register to ensure the voter is registered. The voter register data dump therefore becomes a control to enusre that there are no ghost voters. So JEFF and RAIWAKESHO, stop being clueless. Senti 5 Patriotism, At no point in my previous posts did I equate the laptop e.t.c. with fairness or transparency. As a matter of fact, I stressed on the need for fairness & transparency in our elections ans also called for integrity among the men & women who get the opportunity officiate such exercise. I also did appreciate the use of technology by TNA and I strongly believe that all the parties should be embracing the same. I don't know whether the TNA exercise was fair or not ... mine was general observation and I still stand by it.
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Post by job on Aug 16, 2012 18:02:47 GMT 3
Former ODM man wins TNA nomination in Kajiado North in a very peaceful nomination exercise! Very good for the former ODM man. He was wise to run away from the party of death at the time that he did. He is now in good company in one of the most progressive parties in the country at the monent. Mwalimumkuu,Care to teach what a progressive party is all about? Kindly share with us TNA's ideology, platform and manifesto?
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Post by tnk on Aug 16, 2012 20:05:33 GMT 3
The confusion witnessed in the just concluded primaries by ODM and TNA is a pointer of the problems the parties and IEBC will face come the general election. That the two parties with such financial resources could bungle what seems to be a straight forward exercise beats logic, but begs the question, does polictics in Kenyan thrive on chaos? ODM and (indeed TNA Kanegema nd Kajiado) had a chance to design and use the Ndhiwa primary as a model of how they plan to carry out the general election primaries in a transparent and a fair manner yet they bungled the process so badly it send chills down the spines of potetial contenders. Atleast TNA woodwinked RAISWAKESHO and JEFF with their laptops and projectors to showcase "transparency" in the process, a PR execise which gives it an "edge" in the eyes of the village opinion leaders. But is the presence of a laptop and a projector in a tallying center and indicator of transparency in the process? Is this any different if the local Math teacher tallied the results on a chalk board in the tallying center? RAISWAKESHO thinks the laptop and projector is a step in the right direction. I think that is BS. It is better to tally the results on the dust board than on a laptop where someone is able to manipulate the numbers and then project them to the public on a projector giving them some legitimacy they dont have. Electronic tallying does not mean a laptop and a projector. Electronic tallying means that from the moment a vote is cast , the computer takes over and tallies votes as they are cast to the last registered voter. A report is generated when polls close and based on that report, the winner and losers are/ can be determined. In essence, human intervention is zilch. Electronic tallying, thorectically cannot happen if the voter register is not electronic because the system needs to check votes cast against the register to ensure the voter is registered. The voter register data dump therefore becomes a control to enusre that there are no ghost voters. So JEFF and RAIWAKESHO, stop being clueless. Senti 5 Patriotism, At no point in my previous posts did I equate the laptop e.t.c. with fairness or transparency. As a matter of fact, I stressed on the need for fairness & transparency in our elections ans also called for integrity among the men & women who get the opportunity officiate such exercise. I also did appreciate the use of technology by TNA and I strongly believe that all the parties should be embracing the same. I don't know whether the TNA exercise was fair or not ... mine was general observation and I still stand by it. raiswakesho i think we are all in agreement that entering data into a spreadsheet or some other tabular software is not our idea of electronic tallying and also does not equate to transparency in the exercise. this may not have been what i think Jeff intended, but that is how it was presented and we were just calling this out for clarity nevertheless patriotism touches on some key aspects of electronic voting (with or without biometric capabilities) and electronic tallying (with or without biometric capabilities) would entail we have all also mentioned that if at all possible there must be a paper trail for future reference. This can be independent of the electronic voting or can be a by product (preferred method) but here is a question if manual voting is at a cost of x billion, and use of BVR is y billion. what would be the net cost of running the two systems side by side to ensure integrity? would it be worth it? anyway i dont think generating a paper trail for electronic voting is that complicated all it requires is an additional piece that allows for each voting terminal to print a copy of the vote cast available in private to the voter so that the voter can validate and then cast this into a ballot box. preferably two piece i.e one part retained by the voter, the other to go into the box (this however introduces other issues see below) if there is an error or screwy software, it should come up on the printed paper, and if there are doubts much later, then there is a hard copy of the votes cast available and if need be, voters can turn in their portions one minor issue that no-one talks about in manual voting, the authentication is at the registration and there is no tying of a specific voter to a vote in electronic voting, a voter ID is tied to a vote cast. i.e if a certain voter "ate some goodies" it is possible to retreive the information to see whether they delivered. noting also that added paper trail can also tie specific voters to votes cast. knowing how vindictive some of our canddates can be, knowing how powerful some of these creatures are, and the impunity merchants i.e can get access to this sensitive information. this poses grave dangers to some voters i.e you just log in to dennis itumbi blog or alai's blog to get a list of votes cast by family members (you get the idea). this would completely negate the concept of "secret ballot" and with potentially disastrous consequences what that means is that the software must therefore encrypt the voter ID as well (added cost if not already included). as i mentioned to jakaswanga in another post, we must be completely sure of what problems we solve, and what new ones are introduced by the solution. i have gone through the RFP for the BVR and it was a little scanty on detail, but i do hope that the IEBC has both the expertise at its disposal and that they will take due diligence ultimately however, the problem is that we have all been squished into a corner i.e the build or break kenya revolves around an election and its results. terribly sad the new constitution was supposed to provide a number of cushions, that each act independently of each other, providing necessary checks and balances. kenyans in their near idiotic madness to proove their side is better than the other, have chosen to sacrifice these checks and balances in order to provide their prefered leaders the much needed political leverage/clout i.e the new constitution if well implemented takes into account that a few jokers can be elected, some idiots may be appointed to some state office, some crooks may worm their way up the judiciary etc. but however, the collective intelligence of each institution can counter negative influences but only if upright citizens who put country before partisan interests enact legislation now if we read Jobs input yesterday on what Eugen Wamalwa has done with various pieces of legislation for the simple reason that he is a stooge and puppet of some two ICC suspects, i.e his personal friendships over country then we must continue to back pedal into that corner we are being pushed to i.e we can only croak once on election day every 5 or 7 years, and thats it. i.e we are prisoners of MPs, released once every five years my point is that we must fight to strengthen the other pieces of kenya, and in such a way that elections and/or its outcome are least significant factor of build/break kenya if we succeed in doing that, then no one will need to bribe / be bribed in an election process, no need to tamper with voting, etc, because it simply will not be worth the trouble since there are other institutions that are equally if not more important the the election cycle. instead like little children (or prisoners) we can only focus on elections and then retreat to our villages. in summary, i cannot justify 5bn spent on a voting exercise if an efficient manual process will cost less than 1 bn, and probably less than 0.5 bn in long term comprehensive voter education which will have far much more lasting and sustainable impact, than trying to control people in a caged environment. i always believe good education is both priceless and boundless, whereas cages only work within limited capacities, are expensive to construct and often easily broken or compromised.
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Post by raiswakesho on Aug 16, 2012 20:51:24 GMT 3
tnk,
We are in the same page. The main problem in Kenya is the wanjiku and until she's educated to understand and appreciate the process, the end result will still fall short of the objective.
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Post by phil on Aug 17, 2012 9:26:41 GMT 3
BACK BY PUBLIC DEMANDODM Reloaded Caravan back on the road to campaign for ODM's Peter ole Mositet in the Kajiado North by-elections. This coming Saturday 18th August, caravan to snake through Rongai, Kiserian, Matasia, Ngong, Kibiko (rally) Bulbul with PM RailaOdinga present. You are all welcome. Utapenda!
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Aug 17, 2012 15:30:39 GMT 3
BACK BY PUBLIC DEMANDODM Reloaded Caravan back on the road to campaign for ODM's Peter ole Mositet in the Kajiado North by-elections. This coming Saturday 18th August, caravan to snake through Rongai, Kiserian, Matasia, Ngong, Kibiko (rally) Bulbul with PM RailaOdinga present. You are all welcome. Utapenda! Phil, As has been speculated Wanjiru, Shebesh and Joho are pretictably missing from your photo ad. What about Magerer's lack of enthusiasm in that photo? Was he forced into it? You see Phil photos speak louder than words.
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