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Post by b6k on Oct 10, 2012 8:46:00 GMT 3
Citizen, KBC, NTV, KTN, K24, QTV, KASS TV, have all interrupted regular programming to cover the media houses grand plan for presidential debates that is on live from the Serena hotel. It seems the media is pushing for issues oriented presidential debates where the candidates will be invited, by the media, to put their message forward to the public.
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Post by b6k on Oct 10, 2012 9:01:10 GMT 3
RECAP OF THE MEDIA PRESS CONFERENCE: The media moguls have decided that 8 TV stations & 32 radio stations will broadcast the debates live. Currently they are expecting all 11 candidates to be invited to a venue selected by the media houses. The debates will be held on the following dates: 1) Monday 26 november 2012 2) Monday 14 January 2013 3) Monday 11 February 2013 They will be held in front of a live audience that will not be made up of supporters ( ), will be issues oriented & will not tolerate negative ethnicity. I can't wait to see how that will be accomplished. This promises to be a far sight better than the roadshows & barazas that we currently call political campaigns. ;D
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Post by kamalet on Oct 10, 2012 12:49:02 GMT 3
RECAP OF THE MEDIA PRESS CONFERENCE: The media moguls have decided that 8 TV stations & 32 radio stations will broadcast the debates live. Currently they are expecting all 11 candidates to be invited to a venue selected by the media houses. The debates will be held on the following dates: 1) Monday 26 november 2012 2) Monday 14 January 2013 3) Monday 11 February 2013 They will be held in front of a live audience that will not be made up of supporters ( ), will be issues oriented & will not tolerate negative ethnicity. I can't wait to see how that will be accomplished. This promises to be a far sight better than the roadshows & barazas that we currently call political campaigns. ;D The guy from Citizen TV asked how they would manage with 11 candidates where even in the US they struggle with just two candidates The idea is good, but fraught with dangers of of losing the plot. I would have thought a debate of top three/four contenders would make sense otherwise what is the point of having say Jirongo on the debate floor yet he will not even garner a significant vote? The other problem is getting concurrence of topics for discussion by all contenders or even getting all of them to agree to participate! I would have thought going through an organisation such as CMD which has the support of political parties to organise the debates would have been a good idea rather than allow this to be a media initiative where some of the contestants have considerable ownership!
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Post by Omwenga on Oct 10, 2012 13:14:09 GMT 3
RECAP OF THE MEDIA PRESS CONFERENCE: The media moguls have decided that 8 TV stations & 32 radio stations will broadcast the debates live. Currently they are expecting all 11 candidates to be invited to a venue selected by the media houses. The debates will be held on the following dates: b6k,They might as well have no debate for nothing good will come out of having serious candidates and jokers and spoilers debating together. Waste of time besides being totally counter-productive in as as far as there is no way you can have that many politicians sharing a podium or mike and make sense of what they're trying to say. By the time the 11th person says anything, you have forgotten what the first person said, even what the question is. The best thing is to round down to those polling in the top 5 or at worst in the top 7 and then go from there.
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Post by b6k on Oct 10, 2012 14:17:30 GMT 3
Kamale/Omwenga, you're both right. 11 is just way too many people to have a meaningful debate with. A good cut off number is 5. Any more than that & it is indeed hard to keep track of who said what. Indeed Abdi Osman even asked his bosses just how long they expect the debates to last. If we take the 90 minute format that the US used on the big two, it's not enough time to cover all 11 & anything longer than lead to viewer fatigue. As the media moguls said, they are still working on the modalities of the format of the debates. Also, hopefully natural attrition of the political process should lead to a weeding out of some of the jokers in the pack by end of November....I hope
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 10, 2012 15:38:27 GMT 3
Kamale/Omwenga, you're both right. 11 is just way too many people to have a meaningful debate with. A good cut off number is 5. Any more than that & it is indeed hard to keep track of who said what. Indeed Abdi Osman even asked his bosses just how long they expect the debates to last. If we take the 90 minute format that the US used on the big two, it's not enough time to cover all 11 & anything longer than lead to viewer fatigue. As the media moguls said, they are still working on the modalities of the format of the debates. Also, hopefully natural attrition of the political process should lead to a weeding out of some of the jokers in the pack by end of November....I hope B6K,The is an already dead idea. It is not only hard to think through the logistics of having all 11 candidates on the stage, but even harder thinking of the sampling procedures one can use to arrive at a smaller and manageable number. If it is the opinion polls, they have all been rubbished by all the contenders in one way or another, majority wont therefore allow the media owners to discriminate them using such a suspicious and not so transparent a tool.
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Post by mzee on Oct 10, 2012 16:23:00 GMT 3
Truth be told, such debates would only be useful in the event of a runoff where only two candidates were remaining on stage. By then Kenyans would have properly studied their actions to make informed decisions.
The idea of a debate before the runoffs is fine but kenya media houses do not have competent people to moderate the them. I would not be surprised if a person such as Judy Gicheru or even Jeff Koinange is put in place to moderate the debates. While one of the two is shallow the other is completely biased to ask any meaningful question with intelligent follow ups.
If the debates must be done, I suggest that they have only one candidate at a time and let the audience fire questions. The venue for such debate must not be Nairobi but a place such as Migori. Kwale, Muranga, Busia, Kilgoris etc. Take Raila to Muranga and Uhuru to Migori, Mudavadi answer to Turkana and Peter Kenneth to Bungoma. The crowds must be local and not rented from Nairobi.
Otherwise having say Jirongo, Uhuru, Ruto, Mudavadi, Kalonzo Wamalwa and Raila on the same stage would be a disaster. It would be all others (G7) against Raila. Take a case where they are asked about the ICC. UK, Ruto, Kalonzo and even Wamalwa would falsely and gladly point fingers are Raila.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 10, 2012 16:39:06 GMT 3
Truth be told, such debates would only be useful in the event of a runoff where only two candidates were remaining on stage. By then Kenyans would have properly studied their actions to make informed decisions. I totally agree with you. Second round would make a lot more sense, than now.
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Post by joblesscorner on Oct 10, 2012 17:15:41 GMT 3
I'm looking at Dennis itumbi facebook status, and his question is. who would be the moderators?, according to him. Linus kaikai has been fulfilling political ambitions and Julie Gichuru has been associated with partisan politics esp in 2007!!!! ?
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Post by nereah on Oct 10, 2012 19:05:05 GMT 3
presidential debate did you say.odm has not even nominated its presidential candidate and this would be done at earliest december. sorry!
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Post by joblesscorner on Oct 10, 2012 19:32:22 GMT 3
Nereahyou must be not keen on ODM, bcoz they do have a presidential candidate course of a Board room meeting. That the National Delegates Convention (NDC) shall be held on 29th and 30th November 2012. This joint NEC/PG meeting resolves that the National Delegates Convention (NDC) nominates the Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga as the party’s presidential candidate. The Party PRIMARIES will be done on 4th, 5th and 6th December 2012. orange-democratic.blogspot.com/2012/10/resolutions-of-odm-national-executive.htmlpresidential debate did you say.odm has not even nominated its presidential candidate and this would be done at earliest december. sorry!
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Post by raiswakesho on Oct 10, 2012 19:46:37 GMT 3
I'm not sure the presidential candidates have been determined at this point but to echo what others have said, it would be a nightmare to have 11 candidates on a stage talking real issues.
Let's hope that the G7 shall have settled on a single candidate by Nov 26 coz this will narrow the list by at least six! Better still, if they intend to form an alliance then probably they share the same policies and what not therefore, they can still nominate a representative to face other aspirants.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Oct 11, 2012 7:37:58 GMT 3
In 2007, I was a co-National Coordinator of a series of country wide town hall meetings featuring parliamentary aspirants organized by CMD-Kenya.
All aspirants from all parties were invited to community-based public debates where a moderator grilled them about a range of political, economic, social, cultural and other concerns in relation to their respective electoral campaign platforms. Ordinary Kenyans were allowed to chip in with their own questions and interventions.
We did four constituencies per province and endeavoured to include women and youth aspirants.
The debates were later relayed nationally via the public broadcaster KBC.
Sadly most of the big parties-ODM, PNU, ODM-K- ignored the town hall meetings arrogantly confident that they were going to form the next government and therefore did not need to be grilled by some pesky civil society/media types.
I hope this scenario is not replicated in proposed presidential debates.
Onyango Oloo Nairobi
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Post by destiny on Oct 11, 2012 10:03:43 GMT 3
Will this debate be in English or Swahili... or even both bearing in mind English sounds like Greek to many older folks out there in rural areas? Will candidates be compelled to attend especially the front runners who think they have nothing to lose? To me, Martha Karua and Ruto are the best debaters in that whole lot and would score quite highly. But does that necessarily make them the best leaders?
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Post by mank on Oct 12, 2012 3:32:10 GMT 3
Kamale/Omwenga, you're both right. 11 is just way too many people to have a meaningful debate with. A good cut off number is 5. Any more than that & it is indeed hard to keep track of who said what. Indeed Abdi Osman even asked his bosses just how long they expect the debates to last. If we take the 90 minute format that the US used on the big two, it's not enough time to cover all 11 & anything longer than lead to viewer fatigue.
As the media moguls said, they are still working on the modalities of the format of the debates. Also, hopefully natural attrition of the political process should lead to a weeding out of some of the jokers in the pack by end of November....I hope B6K,The is an already dead idea. It is not only hard to think through the logistics of having all 11 candidates on the stage, but even harder thinking of the sampling procedures one can use to arrive at a smaller and manageable number.
If it is the opinion polls, they have all been rubbished by all the contenders in one way or another, majority wont therefore allow the media owners to discriminate them using such a suspicious and not so transparent a tool. It need not be a dead idea just because we have 11 candidates. We do not always have to do things the way US does them. There has to be a way that all 11 can be given a chance to sell themselves to the people, or to excecute themselves one by one till the fittest is left standing. One way is to invite all 11 of them to one event that is not a debate but just a reality show - everyone gets about 5 minutes to talk to the country, make a case why they should be considered worth time on the debating platform .... or why they are credible aspirants to the top sit. After that, we can have as many debates as necessary, each time inviting only up to the manageable number, each time going by the ranking on polls. That's one way ... perhaps there are others.
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 12, 2012 5:00:25 GMT 3
The logic: They are doing it in America. I know because I just watched it on TV last week! That's what Advanced Countries do. So let's also do it in Our Great Country! And if in America's a debate with just a couple of people can get so much attention there and all over the world, just think what we'll do with 11 or 12! What's more, instead of just having the debates in the one month before the elections, let's start 6 months early and have debates every month until the elections. These will surely be The Mother of All Presidential Debates!
Kenya Juu.
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 15, 2012 16:51:58 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Oct 16, 2012 9:00:09 GMT 3
SHOULD CANDIDATES HOLD PUBLIC DEBATES FOR PORK? I hope this topic was not debated before the last elections, such that a similar thread is already burried somewhere deep in the archives of Jukwaa. But here I go. Should the media houses gang up to come up with a forum, or formats, to force the candidates running for President of the republic, to engage and be engaged live on TV debates? whereby the formula can later be extended to other candidates for other offices like governor of Nairobi too.I think so, and because I have no intentions of discovering the wheel twice over, I would suggest our journalistic rambos, top predators in the game that is, be sponsored by their Houses to the USA to learn the fines. Formats. For example [1] Duration. [2] How many candidates maximum per debate. [3] Single anchor journalist, or panel of? [4] Nature of questions and their % distribution --confrontational or leading? Levels of toughness. [ii] Open or bonhomie? [iii] Demeanor: British bone-crushing ala Paxman, [..] or submissive like French journalists before their emperor-president? [5] Chance to make [propaganda] statements, or [ii] journalist is inquisitor come strict schoolmaster. etc etc etc
Without a standardisation of bars or hurdles, debates would be irrelevant anarchy I think. Competitions in cheap promos.
PS: And, importantly, what sanctions to absenteeism?
Indeed Jakaswanga it seems you called it 100% spot on. The media houses have actually "ganged up" & are planning presidential debates on a format they will come up with. Looks like you were quite prophetic on this one ;D Ruto confirmed yesterday on Agenda Kenya that he would attend the debates. I wonder who will chicken out this time...
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 16, 2012 15:37:32 GMT 3
SHOULD CANDIDATES HOLD PUBLIC DEBATES FOR PORK? I hope this topic was not debated before the last elections, such that a similar thread is already burried somewhere deep in the archives of Jukwaa. But here I go. Should the media houses gang up to come up with a forum, or formats, to force the candidates running for President of the republic, to engage and be engaged live on TV debates? whereby the formula can later be extended to other candidates for other offices like governor of Nairobi too.I think so, and because I have no intentions of discovering the wheel twice over, I would suggest our journalistic rambos, top predators in the game that is, be sponsored by their Houses to the USA to learn the fines. Formats. For example [1] Duration. [2] How many candidates maximum per debate. [3] Single anchor journalist, or panel of? [4] Nature of questions and their % distribution --confrontational or leading? Levels of toughness. [ii] Open or bonhomie? [iii] Demeanor: British bone-crushing ala Paxman, [..] or submissive like French journalists before their emperor-president? [5] Chance to make [propaganda] statements, or [ii] journalist is inquisitor come strict schoolmaster. etc etc etc
Without a standardisation of bars or hurdles, debates would be irrelevant anarchy I think. Competitions in cheap promos.
PS: And, importantly, what sanctions to absenteeism?
Indeed Jakaswanga it seems you called it 100% spot on. The media houses have actually "ganged up" & are planning presidential debates on a format they will come up with. Looks like you were quite prophetic on this one ;D Ruto confirmed yesterday on Agenda Kenya that he would attend the debates. I wonder who will chicken out this time... B6K, You understand why Ruto would be very happy to take part in the debate, he has a clear record to talk and remind Kenyans about. I would really love to see the iron lady on the stage too wrestling all these guys. I however have serious doubts that Raila will want to appear on the stage with the rest, if the reactions from his camp are anything to go by. He prefers platforms where he regurgitates stuff in very abstract terms without any challenge.
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Post by phil on Nov 1, 2012 14:34:42 GMT 3
Can someone please confirm if it is true that these debates have been deferred until after mutual understanding on moderators between candidates who will be nominated to run?
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Post by tactician on Nov 1, 2012 15:39:37 GMT 3
Can someone please confirm if it is true that these debates have been deferred until after mutual understanding on moderators between candidates who will be nominated to run? Seen updates elsewhere on the same. Which is the only sensible thing to do. Otherwise, how do you hold debates between people who have not even presented their nomination papers? This debates can only be intra-party debates i.e. ODM candidates for governor of Nairobi can square it out to get a nominee. Cross party debates are best, and can only be done, after candidates are on the ballot paper. And as we saw in the American debates, one month is enough for three good debates. Good thing out of this is that we will have debates - especially seeing there is no incumbent per se.
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by jeff on Nov 1, 2012 18:16:47 GMT 3
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Post by phil on Nov 19, 2012 12:08:12 GMT 3
STATEMENT ON AMENDED DATES FOR KENYA’S FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES
Following our statement on October 10th regarding the planned first ever presidential debates in Kenya, the joint media Presidential Debates Steering Committee would like to announce that the first of the three debates will now be held in January 2013 and not November 26th as earlier indicated.
The decision to move the debates follows consultations with stakeholders who felt that it would be in the wider interest of the public to stage the presidential debate closer to the March 2013 general election, and indeed after the formal nomination of presidential candidates has taken place.
In the meantime, the public is encouraged to engage in discussions, suggest issues they want discussed and possible questions on the debates’ Twitter account (https://twitter.com/KenyaDebate2013), Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/KenyaDebate2013), send emails to info@presidentialdebate.co.ke or SMS - 2282.
The three debates to be aired simultaneously on TV and radio stations and online, will be staged with topics and questions to be crafted by a broad-based editorial committee.
The debates will provide Kenyan voters with the opportunity to listen, interrogate and interact with the presidential candidates. They will also afford the candidates the opportunity to reach out to the widest possible audience and explain how they would govern if elected president.
The debates are aimed at helping voters make informed choices, promoting national cohesion and steering the campaigns towards issue-driven leadership rather than personality-based politics.
SIGNED: WACHIRA WARURU – CEO (RMS) CHAIRMAN, JOINT STEERING COMMITTEE.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 1, 2013 6:26:48 GMT 3
The presidential debate is fast approaching (February 11, it will be) with one of our earlier concerns being taken care of after the candidates reduced to eight.
Although still a large number for conclusive interrogation of issues and adequate followup by candidates themselves and the moderators, it is nonetheless better than what we had anticipated.
I anticipate a lot of focus on the CORD candidate because he comes into this debate and this campaign as the incumbent, and also considered by his own polls as the front runner. He is also easy to rile and throw off his game, this should be an advantage to his opponents. They only need to keep pulling his leg by speaking to his record and push him to the wall whenever necessary, he will definitely come out punching blindly to their advantage. He can also be very incoherent especially once thrown off his talking points.
For the others especially Uhuru and Mudavadi, it should be easy; they are two very eloquent speakers and very particular on issues. They will however need to be simple and comprehensible. In such situations it is always important to use real examples especially of initiatives and programs that have ones finger prints on them and how they are working. The objective should always be to remain in touch with the commoner even as one explains very complex policy issues.
Martha Karua on the other hand will obviously hold her own. I am not expecting her to do much more than the role of an irritant. Abduba, Peter Kenneth and Kiyiapi will only be filling in whenever necessary.
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Post by b6k on Feb 1, 2013 9:24:51 GMT 3
The presidential debate is fast approaching (February 11, it will be) with one of our earlier concerns being taken care of after the candidates reduced to eight. Although still a large number for conclusive interrogation of issues and adequate followup by candidates themselves and the moderators, it is nonetheless better than what we had anticipated. I anticipate a lot of focus on the CORD candidate because he comes into this debate and this campaign as the incumbent, and also considered by his own polls as the front runner. He is also easy to rile and throw off his game, this should be an advantage to his opponents. They only need to keep pulling his leg by speaking to his record and push him to the wall whenever necessary, he will definitely come out punching blindly to their advantage. He can also be very incoherent especially once thrown off his talking points. For the others especially Uhuru and Mudavadi, it should be easy; they are two very eloquent speakers and very particular on issues. They will however need to be simple and comprehensible. In such situations it is always important to use real examples especially of initiatives and programs that have ones finger prints on them and how they are working. The objective should always be to remain in touch with the commoner even as one explains very complex policy issues. Martha Karua on the other hand will obviously hold her own. I am not expecting her to do much more than the role of an irritant. Abduba, Peter Kenneth and Kiyiapi will only be filling in whenever necessary. Hehehe. Mwalimumkuu, the "inconherent" speech is considered by some a gentlemanly lisp or murmur ;D ;D ;D You're spot on as far as the reduction of candidates since some like the kati kati Wiper man sold their souls for 30 pieces of silver & we won't have to listen to their drivel. It's a pity your man, Ruto, won't be there but if they have a deputy presidential debate he would definitely dominate given his gift of the gab. Campaigns legally commence next week (even though they've been going full swing for the better part of 2 years now) so Feb 11 seems like a good date for the first debate. Let's hope it won't be the last & that the Abduba's left within can see sense & pull out before they Nazlin Omar themselves to oblivion....
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