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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 8, 2013 18:25:21 GMT 3
Kathure,
There goes your friend, Kethi, the shooting star. Not unless somebody somewhere (read Kethi's enemies of my late father) decides that for the sake of the Mutula family and that of their family business they will let Kethi go, that woman is in real trouble. She is not only staring at the Langata Women's prison, but her professional career too is in real jeopardy. Now you know why doing business with CORD is such a bad idea anywhere at any time; they take sooo many things for granted and one wonders how such a 'brilliant' lawyer got herself into this mess.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mank on Jul 8, 2013 20:34:45 GMT 3
Now what's going on here? Is Kethi victim or villain? And where are the loud mouths that were issuing ultimatums the other day, ati "... masharti aliyopewa msichna Kethi ... na ati kama hawangemkubalia wangeona kilichomfanya kanga akosa manyoya kwa kichwa .."? Are they still with her, or have they ran?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 8, 2013 22:46:44 GMT 3
Mank,
That crowd called CORD should never be taken seriously by anybody. Just the other day, I heard Muthama declare, 'walifikiria sisi ni fifofu', whatever that means.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mank on Jul 9, 2013 21:42:39 GMT 3
Mank, That crowd called CORD should never be taken seriously by anybody. Just the other day, I heard Muthama declare, 'walifikiria sisi ni fifofu', whatever that means. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ lol Anyone care to speculate why the loud mouths that only recently sounded like an engine with a cracked muffler are now silent? This could be a clue: The acknowledgement slip in Kethi’s possession is a subject of police investigation as it had been stolen from a booklet that was used to register former President Kibaki only. It is reported to have been stolen alongside four others.www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000087909&story_title=kethi-kilonzo-s-political-mystery |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 9, 2013 22:16:28 GMT 3
I told people on these forums not to get overexcited over this Kethi issue but they ignored and went on to hyperventilate and are now out there somewhere exhausted let's hope they had fun because the proverbial waste is about to hit the fan (see story below)
I also said this Kethi saga is more about Jubilee power plays than Cord or even Kethi for that matter.
I can now report and Cord deputy leader and former Vice President confirms below that this Kethi saga is a creation of TNA.
My own reliable source tells me one William Samoei Ruto is very upset by the powers that be that made an issue out something that they should not have; to be sure, the same source told me Ruto has his ideas on how to handle Raila and Cord, which one can actually see their manifestation if you follow what Ruto and Uhuru have been doing but it appears (my source did not tell me this) there are forces which believe both Ruto and Uhuru must dance to their music notwithstanding they're now co-presidents.
Those very forces may be the very reason the Jubilee coalition may not last beyond a few months before the fissures crack wide open, certainly not going into the next elections.
As I stated before, this Kethi saga ain't over by far and even if the high court does not clear hear, which I fully expect to be the case, namely, her being cleared--unless the case ends in the wrong judge's hands, this will be a rallying issue for Cord, which has been smarting from yet another stolen election.
And now the story about yet another TNA scheme:
The Standard, July 9, 2013
The Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) has accused TNA of tampering with the electoral voter register and deleting Kethi Kilonzo’s name.
The accusations come a day after Monday’s ruling by the Disputes Resolution Panel of the IEBC which revoked the nomination of Kethi Kilonzo, knocking her out of the Makueni Senatorial by-election.
“Of concern is the manner in which TNA, a major player in the Jubilee Coalition raised the issue of Kethi's voter registration status without the knowledge of the electoral body, begging the question of who is the custodian of the IEBC's vote register. This clearly shows that TNA is IEBC and IEBC is TNA. TNA must have tampered with the voter register, hence deleting Kethi's name”, Kalonzo Musyoka said.
CORD also warned of a major political battle even as their lawyers finalised on court papers to appeal IEBC’s ruling that locked out Kethi.
“This is a major political war against CORD, disguised as a legal battle in an obvious attempt to impose a leader on the good people of Makueni. It is clear that Jubilee vehemently tried all means possible to lure Ms Kethi to run for the seat that was held by her late father Sen. Mutula Kilonzo on any of its affiliate parties, an attempt that didn't bear fruits, hence their resolve to frustrate her candidacy”, said Kalonzo.
Nothing surprising here is there?
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Post by mank on Jul 9, 2013 22:53:18 GMT 3
Omwenga,
Unfortunately it is difficult to tell fact from fiction when the two coalitions allege mischief of each other. What could be more practical to discuss therefore are the issues Kethi seems to have difficulties explaining. When did she really register as a voter, and with what identification particulars? If it turns out that the slip she holds as proof of registration is from a book that has been missing at IEBC, what will be the explanation?
I find it difficult to believe that a lawyer in her standing would even have contemplated carrying an expired passport to an office as an identification document. Or is it only in the rest of us that the expiry of a document means irrelevance of the document? I cannot think of a lawyer that would treat an expired document as valid.
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Post by omundu on Jul 9, 2013 23:44:53 GMT 3
I told people on these forums not to get overexcited over this Kethi issue but they ignored and went on to hyperventilate and are now out there somewhere exhausted let's hope they had fun because the proverbial waste is about to hit the fan (see story below) I also said this Kethi saga is more about Jubilee power plays than Cord or even Kethi for that matter. I can now report and Cord deputy leader and former Vice President confirms below that this Kethi saga is a creation of TNA. My own reliable source tells me one William Samoei Ruto is very upset by the powers that be that made an issue out something that they should not have; to be sure, the same source told me Ruto has his ideas on how to handle Raila and Cord, which one can actually see their manifestation if you follow what Ruto and Uhuru have been doing but it appears (my source did not tell me this) there are forces which believe both Ruto and Uhuru must dance to their music notwithstanding they're now co-presidents. Those very forces may be the very reason the Jubilee coalition may not last beyond a few months before the fissures crack wide open, certainly not going into the next elections. As I stated before, this Kethi saga ain't over by far and even if the high court does not clear hear, which I fully expect to be the case, namely, her being cleared--unless the case ends in the wrong judge's hands, this will be a rallying issue for Cord, which has been smarting from yet another stolen election. And now the story about yet another TNA scheme: The Standard, July 9, 2013 The Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) has accused TNA of tampering with the electoral voter register and deleting Kethi Kilonzo’s name. The accusations come a day after Monday’s ruling by the Disputes Resolution Panel of the IEBC which revoked the nomination of Kethi Kilonzo, knocking her out of the Makueni Senatorial by-election. “Of concern is the manner in which TNA, a major player in the Jubilee Coalition raised the issue of Kethi's voter registration status without the knowledge of the electoral body, begging the question of who is the custodian of the IEBC's vote register. This clearly shows that TNA is IEBC and IEBC is TNA. TNA must have tampered with the voter register, hence deleting Kethi's name”, Kalonzo Musyoka said. CORD also warned of a major political battle even as their lawyers finalised on court papers to appeal IEBC’s ruling that locked out Kethi. “This is a major political war against CORD, disguised as a legal battle in an obvious attempt to impose a leader on the good people of Makueni. It is clear that Jubilee vehemently tried all means possible to lure Ms Kethi to run for the seat that was held by her late father Sen. Mutula Kilonzo on any of its affiliate parties, an attempt that didn't bear fruits, hence their resolve to frustrate her candidacy”, said Kalonzo. Nothing surprising here is there? I personally think that kenyans propensity for myopia has made this a case about one person instead of focussing on the elephant in the room: IEBC and how much of a joke they have become. That said, sometimes one can't help but feel sorry for CORD or any of its affiliates. We have said it before and will say it again that CORD's archilles heel has been the thought that they can go into a gunfight with knives. They think everyone will play fair. I highly doubt they have or will learn even from this. I can almost guarantee they will lose in the high court. Why ? Strategy. Why do I say this ? Let's see below: - on their claims that kaloki (not sure on name) had a membership in wiper as well as another party; where was the proof of registration with wiper during the hearings ? - the party bosses were hoping around campaigning for kethi and it is shocking that they were not aware of anything afoot by jubilee ? Even after all the noise being made ? Come on!!! No counter strategies ? - why didn't cord produce the disk that iebc gave to all political parties at close of registration ? If kethi was registered then her name would be there wouldn't it be ? - have they asked makueni voters to check with IEBC if their names are on the register for the by elections ? No they havnt. Only to be caught unawares later. - has any of the cord members or leaders (Mp's, senators etc) initiated proceedings or at least attempted to initiate a forensic audit as requested by the SC in their ruling ? No. Not at all. - how about a case against the uhuruto duo on eligibility thanks to ICC or the recent ruling on ruto ? No. All we are witnessing is a kid running home the the parents (citizens) screaming that he/she has been bullied on the playground. We see no strategy, no action, just reaction. Behaviour like a deer caught in the headlights. It is really becoming tired. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 0:56:02 GMT 3
Mank, That crowd called CORD should never be taken seriously by anybody. Just the other day, I heard Muthama declare, 'walifikiria sisi ni fifofu', whatever that means. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ lol Anyone care to speculate why the loud mouths that only recently sounded like an engine with a cracked muffler are now silent? This could be a clue: The acknowledgement slip in Kethi’s possession is a subject of police investigation as it had been stolen from a booklet that was used to register former President Kibaki only. It is reported to have been stolen alongside four others.www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000087909&story_title=kethi-kilonzo-s-political-mysterykimumeru this loud mouth kamumeru will be back with her thoughts on this matter. see you later |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 5:41:08 GMT 3
Only jubilie sociopaths can think that the IEBC is a credible organization.
Questions raised about IEBC's capability
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 6:06:30 GMT 3
lol Anyone care to speculate why the loud mouths that only recently sounded like an engine with a cracked muffler are now silent? This could be a clue: The acknowledgement slip in Kethi’s possession is a subject of police investigation as it had been stolen from a booklet that was used to register former President Kibaki only. It is reported to have been stolen alongside four others.www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000087909&story_title=kethi-kilonzo-s-political-mysterykimumeru this loud mouth kamumeru will be back with her thoughts on this matter. see you later Kathure go easy on yourself. I was talking about the same loud mouths I talked about the other day .... you even asked me who I was referring to, and I explained. I really was not referring to you. But I am not trying to take anything away from you ... you are a loud mouth alright, but you are not among those who were pushing Kethi as their ammunition and issuing foolish public ultimatums. |
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 6:18:07 GMT 3
I told people on these forums not to get overexcited over this Kethi issue but they ignored and went on to hyperventilate and are now out there somewhere exhausted let's hope they had fun because the proverbial waste is about to hit the fan (see story below) I also said this Kethi saga is more about Jubilee power plays than Cord or even Kethi for that matter. I can now report and Cord deputy leader and former Vice President confirms below that this Kethi saga is a creation of TNA. My own reliable source tells me one William Samoei Ruto is very upset by the powers that be that made an issue out something that they should not have; to be sure, the same source told me Ruto has his ideas on how to handle Raila and Cord, which one can actually see their manifestation if you follow what Ruto and Uhuru have been doing but it appears (my source did not tell me this) there are forces which believe both Ruto and Uhuru must dance to their music notwithstanding they're now co-presidents. Those very forces may be the very reason the Jubilee coalition may not last beyond a few months before the fissures crack wide open, certainly not going into the next elections. As I stated before, this Kethi saga ain't over by far and even if the high court does not clear hear, which I fully expect to be the case, namely, her being cleared--unless the case ends in the wrong judge's hands, this will be a rallying issue for Cord, which has been smarting from yet another stolen election. And now the story about yet another TNA scheme: The Standard, July 9, 2013 The Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) has accused TNA of tampering with the electoral voter register and deleting Kethi Kilonzo’s name. The accusations come a day after Monday’s ruling by the Disputes Resolution Panel of the IEBC which revoked the nomination of Kethi Kilonzo, knocking her out of the Makueni Senatorial by-election. “Of concern is the manner in which TNA, a major player in the Jubilee Coalition raised the issue of Kethi's voter registration status without the knowledge of the electoral body, begging the question of who is the custodian of the IEBC's vote register. This clearly shows that TNA is IEBC and IEBC is TNA. TNA must have tampered with the voter register, hence deleting Kethi's name”, Kalonzo Musyoka said. CORD also warned of a major political battle even as their lawyers finalised on court papers to appeal IEBC’s ruling that locked out Kethi. “This is a major political war against CORD, disguised as a legal battle in an obvious attempt to impose a leader on the good people of Makueni. It is clear that Jubilee vehemently tried all means possible to lure Ms Kethi to run for the seat that was held by her late father Sen. Mutula Kilonzo on any of its affiliate parties, an attempt that didn't bear fruits, hence their resolve to frustrate her candidacy”, said Kalonzo. Nothing surprising here is there? I personally think that kenyans propensity for myopia has made this a case about one person instead of focussing on the elephant in the room: IEBC and how much of a joke they have become. That said, sometimes one can't help but feel sorry for CORD or any of its affiliates. We have said it before and will say it again that CORD's archilles heel has been the thought that they can go into a gunfight with knives. They think everyone will play fair. I highly doubt they have or will learn even from this. I can almost guarantee they will lose in the high court. Why ? Strategy. Why do I say this ? Let's see below: - on their claims that kaloki (not sure on name) had a membership in wiper as well as another party; where was the proof of registration with wiper during the hearings ? - the party bosses were hoping around campaigning for kethi and it is shocking that they were not aware of anything afoot by jubilee ? Even after all the noise being made ? Come on!!! No counter strategies ? - why didn't cord produce the disk that iebc gave to all political parties at close of registration ? If kethi was registered then her name would be there wouldn't it be ? - have they asked makueni voters to check with IEBC if their names are on the register for the by elections ? No they havnt. Only to be caught unawares later. - has any of the cord members or leaders (Mp's, senators etc) initiated proceedings or at least attempted to initiate a forensic audit as requested by the SC in their ruling ? No. Not at all. - how about a case against the uhuruto duo on eligibility thanks to ICC or the recent ruling on ruto ? No. All we are witnessing is a kid running home the the parents (citizens) screaming that he/she has been bullied on the playground. We see no strategy, no action, just reaction. Behaviour like a deer caught in the headlights. It is really becoming tired. Omundu, It is unclear to me what part of Kethi's predicament you are attributing to CORD, or even Jubilee. The woman says she registered to vote using an expired passport and a photocopy of an ID. That's not legally possible. Add to that her assertion that she registered at a station that did not exist, and the allegation that the proof of registration she produces is a slip from a lost book that only baba Jimie was registered in, and it starts looking like Kethi has a legal matter to answer to. Where in all this do you put the political coalitions? |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 10, 2013 11:40:40 GMT 3
Omwenga, Unfortunately it is difficult to tell fact from fiction when the two coalitions allege mischief of each other. What could be more practical to discuss therefore are the issues Kethi seems to have difficulties explaining. When did she really register as a voter, and with what identification particulars? If it turns out that the slip she holds as proof of registration is from a book that has been missing at IEBC, what will be the explanation? I find it difficult to believe that a lawyer in her standing would even have contemplated carrying an expired passport to an office as an identification document. Or is it only in the rest of us that the expiry of a document means irrelevance of the document? I cannot think of a lawyer that would treat an expired document as valid. Mank, In my column this weekend, I acknowledge Kethi has not helped herself in how she has handled this, especially in light of her stellar performance during the tragic Supreme Court proceedings where justice and democracy were smothered and are now on life support. You'll have to read my column to get the rest of my thoughts on all of this. |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 10, 2013 11:45:45 GMT 3
I personally think that kenyans propensity for myopia has made this a case about one person instead of focussing on the elephant in the room: IEBC and how much of a joke they have become. That said, sometimes one can't help but feel sorry for CORD or any of its affiliates. We have said it before and will say it again that CORD's archilles heel has been the thought that they can go into a gunfight with knives. They think everyone will play fair. I highly doubt they have or will learn even from this. I can almost guarantee they will lose in the high court. Why ? Strategy. Why do I say this ? Let's see below: - on their claims that kaloki (not sure on name) had a membership in wiper as well as another party; where was the proof of registration with wiper during the hearings ? - the party bosses were hoping around campaigning for kethi and it is shocking that they were not aware of anything afoot by jubilee ? Even after all the noise being made ? Come on!!! No counter strategies ? - why didn't cord produce the disk that iebc gave to all political parties at close of registration ? If kethi was registered then her name would be there wouldn't it be ? - have they asked makueni voters to check with IEBC if their names are on the register for the by elections ? No they havnt. Only to be caught unawares later. - has any of the cord members or leaders (Mp's, senators etc) initiated proceedings or at least attempted to initiate a forensic audit as requested by the SC in their ruling ? No. Not at all. - how about a case against the uhuruto duo on eligibility thanks to ICC or the recent ruling on ruto ? No. All we are witnessing is a kid running home the the parents (citizens) screaming that he/she has been bullied on the playground. We see no strategy, no action, just reaction. Behaviour like a deer caught in the headlights. It is really becoming tired. Omundu, You make good points and sound exactly the same like someone who called me the other day shouting at me about the same thing; well, he's my friend and doubt you're him in disguise which is not impossible  |
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 14:36:31 GMT 3
Omwenga, Unfortunately it is difficult to tell fact from fiction when the two coalitions allege mischief of each other. What could be more practical to discuss therefore are the issues Kethi seems to have difficulties explaining. When did she really register as a voter, and with what identification particulars? If it turns out that the slip she holds as proof of registration is from a book that has been missing at IEBC, what will be the explanation? I find it difficult to believe that a lawyer in her standing would even have contemplated carrying an expired passport to an office as an identification document. Or is it only in the rest of us that the expiry of a document means irrelevance of the document? I cannot think of a lawyer that would treat an expired document as valid. Mank, In my column this weekend, I acknowledge Kethi has not helped herself in how she has handled this, especially in light of her stellar performance during the tragic Supreme Court proceedings where justice and democracy were smothered and are now on life support. You'll have to read my column to get the rest of my thoughts on all of this. Ok Omwenga, I look forward to your column. But I am looking for a critical attention to Kethi's own struggle with what she claims are facts about her voter record, i.e. whether she's a bonafide voter, and whether she voted in the last elections. It does not seem like her issue is merely a matter of style as you seem to be trying to present it. The Standard seems to venture in the direction I think is meaningful: www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000087911&story_title=why-investigations-could-give-kethi-kilonzo-sleepless-nights&pageNo=1Might someone have convinced this woman that he or she could give her a clean standing as a voter even though she had not registered? That could explain how the strange registration slip shows up. She should never have given herself into dirty polytricks. |
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Post by omundu on Jul 10, 2013 16:36:28 GMT 3
Omwenga, Unfortunately it is difficult to tell fact from fiction when the two coalitions allege mischief of each other. What could be more practical to discuss therefore are the issues Kethi seems to have difficulties explaining. When did she really register as a voter, and with what identification particulars? If it turns out that the slip she holds as proof of registration is from a book that has been missing at IEBC, what will be the explanation? I find it difficult to believe that a lawyer in her standing would even have contemplated carrying an expired passport to an office as an identification document. Or is it only in the rest of us that the expiry of a document means irrelevance of the document? I cannot think of a lawyer that would treat an expired document as valid. Mank, In my column this weekend, I acknowledge Kethi has not helped herself in how she has handled this, especially in light of her stellar performance during the tragic Supreme Court proceedings where justice and democracy were smothered and are now on life support. You'll have to read my column to get the rest of my thoughts on all of this. :-)). You never know, I could be. But I maintain, those are pertinent questions that may need answers. Introspection is needed here. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 10, 2013 17:00:52 GMT 3
Mank, Omundu & Omwenga,
Anyone who followed the hearings of this case at the IEBC tribunal will tell you for certain that Kethi is not a registered voter and that she is in possession of stolen documents or documents obtained through fraudulent means. As Omundu or is it Mank? points out, there is no way one can be allowed to register with an expired passport and a copy of a lost ID. That right there is evidence enough that Kethi and her handlers are not being truthful about this thing. How can a whole lawyer of such 'repute' leave her house heading for the registration center with such dubious documents.
To make matters worse, Kethi has no any idea of the directions to the registration center where she purportedly registered herself. As if not enough, Kethi claims in a live TV interview with a straight face that she voted in the March 4 elections, only to change her story under oath at the tribunal hearings. Couple this with the fact that the confirmation slip she is in possession of was plucked from a booklet that was not in circulation during the registration period and you have all your theory of how this fraud was committed. Remember Kethi claims she is registered in Lang'ata (rings a bell?).
From where I sit, Kethi is in real trouble, if she hasn't realized this, then she is dumber than I thought. But the one thing I agree with Omwenga is, this case will be a blessing to Kenyans, especially if IEBC can follow it to its logical conclusion. The moles within its ranks, who can connive with politicians to such a level, must be smoked out.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 17:31:16 GMT 3
Mank, Omundu & Omwenga,Anyone who followed the hearings of this case at the IEBC tribunal will tell you for certain that Kethi is not a registered voter and that she is in possession of stolen documents or documents obtained through fraudulent means. As Omundu or is it Mank? points out, there is no way one can be allowed to register with an expired passport and a copy of a lost ID. That right there is evidence enough that Kethi and her handlers are not being truthful about this thing. How can a whole lawyer of such 'repute' leave her house heading for the registration center with such dubious documents. To make matters worse, Kethi has no any idea of the directions to the registration center where she purportedly registered herself. As if not enough, Kethi claims in a live TV interview with a straight face that she voted in the March 4 elections, only to change her story under oath at the tribunal hearings. Couple this with the fact that the confirmation slip she is in possession of was plucked from a booklet that was not in circulation during the registration period and you have all your theory of how this fraud was committed. Remember Kethi claims she is registered in Lang'ata (rings a bell?). From where I sit, Kethi is in real trouble, if she hasn't realized this, then she is dumber than I thought. But the one thing I agree with Omwenga is, this case will be a blessing to Kenyans, especially if IEBC can follow it to its logical conclusion. The moles within its ranks, who can connive with politicians to such a level, must be smoked out. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ I have tried without success to get Omwenga and Omundu to discuss the issues that you now discuss. The two only see party politics in Kethi's predicament. So, no, it is not Omundu but yours truly who points out the folly in Kethi's explanation of how she registered to vote using invalid documents. I hope IEBC pursues this matter to the very end. Let's find out who stole a voters registration book and opened up a back-office registration where identification particulars are not a concern. I think she has given us a clue already - apparently there's a Lan'gata connection. Remember when the lady was not running, and step mom was running? Then suddenly she was running, and step mom stepped aside? Why the drama? I bet that gives us an idea of when she got "registered as a voter." Whose the genius behind all this? |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 10, 2013 17:53:56 GMT 3
I am not privy to neither am I in any way involved in Kethi's case but, based on my understanding of the facts in this case and knowledge, Kethi has the following points I am fairly certain she will prevail in some if not all of them in making her case before the High Court against the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC: - The issuance of Kethi's clearance certificate by IEBC was final (the obviously compromised and incompetent body) had no jurisdiction to hear the complaint filed by TNA adba Jubilee Alliance. I put my apt and copyrighted description of this obviously compromised and incompetent body in quotes because it's not necessary to use or put that language in pleadings or proceedings but fair game to point out the same by other means, as I am sure they will.
- The High Court should review the case de novo, meaning, trash the factual finding by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC as to whether Kethi is a registered voter and make its own factual findings
- One of those factual findings should be Kethi is a registered voter, even if she fails to prove so on account IEBC has proven it's compromised and incompetent enough to have had someone simply delete Kethi's name from all of the many registers IEBC illegally maintains of registered voters
- The argument that Kethi used an expired passport and copy of her ID to register should be first dismissed on the basis the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC is estopped from making the argument (legally stopped from making the argument because they already accepted the identification docs, flawed as they may have been it's too late and detrimental to Kethi to argue that now; had they rejected the items when she presented them, she would have had an opportunity to find other forms of acceptable ID; she obviously can't do that now as registration is closed). Alternatively, the High Court can simply rule as it should that an expired passport is an acceptable form of identification under the Election Law. Either ruling will moot the issue.
- Whether she voted or where is irrelevant as to the question of whether she is a registered voter.
If the rule of law that started taking hold upon promulgation of the new constitution is still alive, we should expect the High Court to rule in favor of at least some or all of these points, especially #3, which should be sufficient to clear the way for Kethi's candidacy and election as first elected woman senator representing the people of Makueni. |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 10, 2013 18:03:07 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,
You said, "there is no way one can be allowed to register with an expired passport and a copy of a lost ID."
There is nothing in our Constitution or Election Law that says a passport must be valid in order to qualify as an identification document; in fact, an "identification document" for purposes of Election Law is defined as "a Kenyan national identification card or a Kenyan passport." Note the absence of "valid" or "unexpired" before the word "passport" which would have to be present in order to make validity of a passport necessary or required to qualify as an identification document. I fully expect Kethi and her lawyers to make this argument and have no doubt the court will agree as it should and must if proper interpretation and application of law means anything.
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Post by omundu on Jul 10, 2013 18:08:22 GMT 3
Folks. Many of you may have a point. Especially mwalimu. But I personally don't care whether kethi is on the ballot this time or not. It would have been good if she was, for gender reasons and her brains. But let's try see things in the bigger picture: point is, kethi is still young and like any endevours, she will have her chance again in four years to take the seat and do things proper if she actually did it wrongly roundi hii. And we all know she will capture it. I call makueni; a seat differed. That said, sample this below (especially mank) www.nation.co.ke/oped/Letters/IEBC-must-clean-up-its-act-after-Kethi-voter-listing-saga-/-/440806/1910084/-/rwl49az/-/index.htmlThat is a daily nation article amongst many other voices that are seeing the bigger picture in this: It is not about the individual but the institutions as some have intimated here. The onus for any voter is to go register. The onus on IEBC is to carefully record the data, guard it and use it wisely as trusted to by wanjiku. Right now, we are all speculating about kethi's eligibility or not. She claims she registered and provided a slip to show thus. IEBC gave her a certificate to run and later backtracks and becomes jury, saying "we did wrong to give you the cert. So you are the problem" their onus is to provide records and proof that she is not registered or simply revoke her cert. Citing absence of her name on the voters register. But no; all we heard was jubilee and IEBC's word against kethi's. If that is not politics mank, what is ? The politics angle in it also arises because we know all political parties received soft copies of the final voter register. Why didn't they use it in the hearing ? Couldn't IEBC check its voter registar and avoid these silly shenanigans ? How about the fact that earlier in the year, a certain PS accused parties of hacking registers ? Isn't that politics ? How about the IEBC sharing a server with TNA ? Mank bwana. Let's look at things in the bigger picture. I will ask you one question in this and past events: what do you think of IEBC's performance ? Have you seen no evil ? Or heard none ? Kethi shouldn't be the issue, we need systems that will prevent such silly games. That is the bigger picture. I am glad you raised the "legality shebang" mank. This because I have a few legality questions up my sleeve: - wasn't kethi still legally allowed to vie by the IEBC ? - did the IEBC raise questions about her eligibility ? No they didn't. Who did ? Hehehehe. Ati it is not politics. - apparently IEBC claims the kibaki book she was registered in got lost. Lol. What are the legal mechanisms they should pursue when such happens ? How are they or you going to prove (as you claim) that fraud happened without the lost book ? How ? Where are the police reports showing that it indeed was lost ? Hehehehe. - why then did Jubilee want, heck BEG kethi to run on their ticket. How was it legally going to happen ? And you still don't see politricks in this ? Or maybe I should go on ? - is it legally possible for IEBC to have multiple voters registers ? Ati a green book... Show me where in our constitution. - where is it legally possible to have official results not yet out by the stipulated date (which is roughly a month after announcing)? Someone mentioned that if they can't intergrate results or know where other ballot boxes are, how in hell will they find a name in the registar ? How will they conduct a by election yet they havnt finished counting the electoral results months later? It is simple one... Two... Three.... Etc. You don't even need BODMAS here. - how is it legally possible for the IEBC to be the judge and jury in this kethi case. You can't try yourself. The fact that kethi's name overshadows all these questions. And others about a system that has affected and will affect millions of lives is profoundly shocking. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 10, 2013 18:40:41 GMT 3
I am not privy to neither am I in any way involved in Kethi's case but, based on my understanding of the facts in this case and knowledge, Kethi has the following points I am fairly certain she will prevail in some if not all of them in making her case before the High Court against the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC: - The issuance of Kethi's clearance certificate by IEBC was final (the obviously compromised and incompetent body) had no jurisdiction to hear the complaint filed by TNA adba Jubilee Alliance. I put my apt and copyrighted description of this obviously compromised and incompetent body in quotes because it's not necessary to use or put that language in pleadings or proceedings but fair game to point out the same by other means, as I am sure they will.
- The High Court should review the case de novo, meaning, trash the factual finding by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC as to whether Kethi is a registered voter and make its own factual findings
- One of those factual findings should be Kethi is a registered voter, even if she fails to prove so on account IEBC has proven it's compromised and incompetent enough to have had someone simply delete Kethi's name from all of the many registers IEBC illegally maintains of registered voters
- The argument that Kethi used an expired passport and copy of her ID to register should be first dismissed on the basis the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC is estopped from making the argument (legally stopped from making the argument because they already accepted the identification docs, flawed as they may have been it's too late and detrimental to Kethi to argue that now; had they rejected the items when she presented them, she would have had an opportunity to find other forms of acceptable ID; she obviously can't do that now as registration is closed). Alternatively, the High Court can simply rule as it should that an expired passport is an acceptable form of identification under the Election Law. Either ruling will moot the issue.
- Whether she voted or where is irrelevant as to the question of whether she is a registered voter.
If the rule of law that started taking hold upon promulgation of the new constitution is still alive, we should expect the High Court to rule in favor of at least some or all of these points, especially #3, which should be sufficient to clear the way for Kethi's candidacy and election as first elected woman senator representing the people of Makueni. I am not a lawyer, as a matter of fact, I have never been anywhere near a law school. But believe me you, with this kind of reasoning, I am not about to hire anyone of you to defend me in a court of law even for the simplest of crimes. Majority of you, CORD lawyers are political lawyers, you are never able to distinguish what is political and what is legal. I will start with point #5: The fact that Kethi while speaking to reporters indicated not under any pressure that she indeed voted in the last general election and later changed her story under oath, speaks loudly about her credibility. She has already come across as a pathological liar. How do we henceforth trust her narrative? Secondly, IEBC is not the final decision maker on the legibility of a candidate. They are crucial but not final in the entire process. It is therefore foolhardy for you to argue that since their officer accepted Kethi's documents, it is game over. It is not. We have cases where IEBC has declared people as winners of elections and even gazetted them as such, only for the court to nullify such results. In addition, the RO explained very candidly the circumstances under which he cleared Kethi and made it known to other parties and the public that there were questions about her status of registration, of which anyone was free to challenge. That is exactly what two voters from Makueni did. Thirdly, an expired document is as good as nonexistent. It cannot be used anywhere. That is as obvious as it can be. Whereas I am not conversant with the relevant sections of the law, I remember someone raising this at the tribunal and none of Kethi's lawyers raised an objection. In regard deletion of Kethi's name from the register, well the burden of proof rests with the claimants of the same. But going with the evidence available, (namely expired and lost documents, stolen slip, inconsistencies in Kethi's story line etc), it is simply an outrageous claim by fraudsters who are desperately looking for an escape route from the scene of crime. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 19:05:39 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,You said, " there is no way one can be allowed to register with an expired passport and a copy of a lost ID." There is nothing in our Constitution or Election Law that says a passport must be valid in order to qualify as an identification document; in fact, an "identification document" for purposes of Election Law is defined as "a Kenyan national identification card or a Kenyan passport." Note the absence of "valid" or "unexpired" before the word "passport" which would have to be present in order to make validity of a passport necessary or required to qualify as an identification document. I fully expect Kethi and her lawyers to make this argument and have no doubt the court will agree as it should and must if proper interpretation and application of law means anything. Dios mio! So our constitution allows us to use invalid identification particulars? Why should we go through the pains of renewing documents then when they expire? You seem to take the claims at face value, that indeed she registered using invalid identification documents. Some of us choose not to spell the obvious message in the narrative we have covered so far, but we expect that people can pick the message by themselves. But some of us are known for refusing to see things the way they are. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 10, 2013 19:35:11 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,You said, " there is no way one can be allowed to register with an expired passport and a copy of a lost ID." There is nothing in our Constitution or Election Law that says a passport must be valid in order to qualify as an identification document; in fact, an "identification document" for purposes of Election Law is defined as "a Kenyan national identification card or a Kenyan passport." Note the absence of "valid" or "unexpired" before the word "passport" which would have to be present in order to make validity of a passport necessary or required to qualify as an identification document. I fully expect Kethi and her lawyers to make this argument and have no doubt the court will agree as it should and must if proper interpretation and application of law means anything. Dios mio! So our constitution allows us to use invalid identification particulars? Why should we go through the pains of renewing documents then when they expire? You seem to take the claims at face value, that indeed she registered using invalid identification documents. Some of us choose not to spell the obvious message in the narrative we have covered so far, but we expect that people can pick the message by themselves. But some of us are known for refusing to see things the way they are. Well, here is Jasper Mbiuki www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2013/07/tna-now-sets-legal-eyes-on-emotional-kalonzo/ As you can tell from his statement, Wiper and by extension CORD are even aware that parties have copies of the IEBC registers from which one can easily tell whether a member is a registered voter or not. I thought these guys learnt something from their ill advised petition earlier this year, but no. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by mank on Jul 10, 2013 20:15:14 GMT 3
Dios mio! So our constitution allows us to use invalid identification particulars? Why should we go through the pains of renewing documents then when they expire? You seem to take the claims at face value, that indeed she registered using invalid identification documents. Some of us choose not to spell the obvious message in the narrative we have covered so far, but we expect that people can pick the message by themselves. But some of us are known for refusing to see things the way they are. Well, here is Jasper Mbiuki www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2013/07/tna-now-sets-legal-eyes-on-emotional-kalonzo/ As you can tell from his statement, Wiper and by extension CORD are even aware that parties have copies of the IEBC registers from which one can easily tell whether a member is a registered voter or not. I thought these guys learnt something from their ill advised petition earlier this year, but no. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~  ... Yes, reckless rumbling like a cracked muffler will be costly in this age of competition. He's simply saying what we always knew. I hope the wiper leadership is capable of embarrassment. |
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Post by Omwenga on Jul 10, 2013 20:42:16 GMT 3
But believe me you, with this kind of reasoning, I am not about to hire anyone of you to defend me in a court of law even for the simplest of crimes. This is an absolute right you have as an individual; it's the same right those who would hire us have; it's called freedom of choice. I am laughing because I don't think you're capable of seeing the fallacy in your logic; how does one distinguish what is political from what's legal in a legal proceeding about a politically charged legal issue? Kethi's position and argument is, she validly registered as a voter but some mandarins had her name deleted in one of the many illegal registers created and maintained by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC for political reasons; she cannot make a complete legal case for her position without making that argument, which the court must take into consideration is rendering its decision and it really doesn't matter which way they come down on it but consider they must. The problem in your argument is you don't see your own partisanship in this while charging that we're partisan in our legal views. Put another way, you're looking at this purely from a partisan point of view because, if I were to switch sides and start defending the highly competent and impartial IEBC (that's how I'll describe it), which I can, you'll be commending me in how astute and legally correct I am but nothing changes there except party affiliation; not the facts, not the law. I have not seen that clip where Kethi says she voted; all I know is what she said at the hearing that she did not vote for reasons she did not disclose. Now, if indeed she did say that, that will be a difficult but not impossible misspeak to explain and be legally sufficient. I can tell you how but not necessary other than to say whether she voted or not is irrelevant to the question of whether she's eligible to vie. That's a heavy charge you have neither facts nor evidence to back it up if you disagree, look up the meaning of a "pathological liar." Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how one looks at it, when it comes to these partisan affairs, one wouldn't believe even an angel sent from heaven about things their minds are hopelessly preset to believe for tribal or political reasons. Right now, the only person whose believing of Kethi's narrative matters, is the judge who will hear the case and if the mandarins have already fixed that, then what can we do but continue pressing for truth and justice in our beloved country. You're mistaken as I have seen others do the same thing elsewhere. Read carefully what I said and you'll realize I did not say such a thing as you allege I did that the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC is the final say on eligibility; rather, what I am saying is, once they have accepted a prospective candidate's required documents and issued a certificate of eligibility, that decision is final as to IEBC on the issue of eligibility; they cannot turn around and start re-probing itself whether they did the right thing or not in issuing the certificate--that now becomes a matter for the courts to decide, if there is any issue raised as to the issuance of the certificate. Once you start from a false premise as you have here, your conclusion is always going to be false as it is here. I am sure you've seen my position as to this on this as it was addressed to you but let me cut and paste for you and others who may not have seen it here: There is nothing in our Constitution or Election Law that says a passport must be valid in order to qualify as an identification document; in fact, an "identification document" for purposes of Election Law is defined as "a Kenyan national identification card or a Kenyan passport." Note the absence of "valid" or "unexpired" before the word "passport" which would have to be present in order to make validity of a passport necessary or required to qualify as an identification document. I fully expect Kethi and her lawyers to make this argument and have no doubt the court will agree as it should and must if proper interpretation and application of law means anything.
I'll actually argue the opposite; you can't rig the elections and when we go to court, you demand that we show proof knowing fully well you have much of that proof under lock and you're the only one with the key. That's a strategy Jubilee cleverly employed I must add in the Supreme Court case let's see how it plays in this case. I am sure it felt good saying this but a small reminder none of it is true and that's really all that matters. |
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