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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 22, 2012 11:40:06 GMT 3
KK, See below Jobs sums it up , If the 2 bodies(I.E.B.C. & Constitutional Courts ) are the ones provided by law to oversee the election and any petitions arising from the elections then there is need to give them utmost respect from the leaders especially the ones participating in the G.E. or else their supporters wont accept or abide to those decisions and this in result can cause the mayhem witnessed in 2007 jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6731&page=2#92822
3. Utmost respect for newly established Constitutional bodies is something that needs to be rummed into the heads of those currently milling around the PM.
As you can see in this clip below it has resulted to IEBC openly albeit "not for the camera "airing out Midiwo and Raila promises of kupiga vita IEBC . This is dangerous talk [youtube] [/youtube] And from Kriegler commission on the 2007 G.E. it was not clear as to who won the 2007 elections so there is a percentage of population which still believes O.D.M. came to power using plots such as undermining the Kivuitu led E.C.K. by rigging claims prior to 2007 elections and rubbishing the then constitutional courts as corrupt and in the process refusing to seek legal redress . The bottom line the 2 institutions were reformed so that the public could have confidence in them , Leaders shouldnt use politics to build perceptions of IEBC and Courts as incompetent . This can be counter productive and was one of the major finding by Kriegler Commision. "That the conduct of the electoral process was hampered and the electoral environment was polluted by the conduct of many public participants, especially political parties and the media." www.ncck.org/index.php/information/publications/115.html nowayhahaWhat I said was that they were not the only ones to say that IEBC doesn't have the mandate to set the election date. Further, I asserted that their comments were not tantamount to plans to sabotage the next elections. As we all know Kenyans have had no confidence in it's institutions. If you don't know why I ain't telling you, ask someone else to assist you. Kenyan institutions now have to give us reasons to have confidence in them. After the rigging of the last elections, Kenyan courts were deservedly rubbished by ODM based on the scandalous ways in which those institutions have functioned to buttress the corrupt power of particular elements in the county. Finally, the only reason that the Electoral Commission and the Courts have/are being reformed is because of the resistance that Kenyans put up after the debacle that was the last elections. haha anything else you want to tell me? KK, Seems we are going round and round , In my posts in this thread therein lies the answers. Its the MANNER in which they were criticizing the IEBC jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6727&page=1#92545jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=general&thread=6727&post=92593And in the immediate thread I pointed out that criticizing the IEBC through threats and intimidation can lead to misapprehension(rightly so) from a % of the population that ODM might refuse to accept the election results and refuse to appeal if the results dont favor them and thus lead to the mayhem witnessed in 2007/2008 P.E.V. This has also been echoed by some Kenyan yesterday - Elsewhere, a section of MPs on Wednesday asked the PM to apologise to IEBC and assure Kenyans that he will not interfere with the General Election.
MPs John Mututho, Jeremiah Kioni, Abdi Noor and Chachu Ganya, accused Mr Odinga of showing disregard to the commission.
Mr Mututho (Naivasha) asked Mr Odinga to respect and have faith in the IEBC or give up vying for any seat.
Mr Kioni (Ndaragwa) said before the 2007 elections, Mr Odinga had also discredited the defunct Electoral Commission of Kenya.
“That is why it is important that he desists from that trend because it is not useful,” he said, warning that the trend was detrimental to polls. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Raila+wants+MPs+to+set+polls+date+/-/1064/1370884/-/nbq75vz/-/index.html "Dangerous trend
The video has since been posted on You Tube. On Wednesday four MPs expressed shock over the claims and demanded that the premier offers a public apology.
MPs Jeremiah Kioni (Ndaragwa), John Mututho (Naivasha), Nuh Abdi (Bura) and North Horr MP Chachu Ganya expressed fears over interference of independent constitutional institutions by the Executive.
They told a news conference at Parliament Buildings that the PM was setting a dangerous trend of undermining constitutional office bearers.
Dr Abdi urged Raila to use legal mechanism whenever he has issues with constitutional institutions instead of engaging in intimidations and threats. Ganya urged the PM to respect IEBC saying he has a duty to uphold the Constitution.
The PM has in the recent past been on the spot over his utterances about the Kenyan case at the ICC and rebuking a court ruling."standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000054588&cid=159&The reason why majority of Kenyans voted for the new constitution was because they believed it will be used as the venue to reform its institutions and we have seen progress in that especially the 2 institutions which are being undermined and discredited by O.D.M. and Raila -The IEBC and Constituional CourtsFor both Institutions we saw the head of the institutions and Supreme Judges/IEBC commissioners undergoing an open vetting and nomination process void of any influence be it corruption , executive e.t.c. Kenya is in the right path and should safeguard its new institutions from politicians such as Raila Midiwo and Kajwang from using politics and careless political utterances to build wrong perceptions against these 2 bodies and in result poison the electrol process as happened in 2007 thus resulting to P.E.V. This was one of the major finding by Kriegler commission. "That the conduct of the electoral process was hampered and the electoral environment was polluted by the conduct of many public participants, especially political parties and the media." www.ncck.org/index.php/information/publications/115.htmlA question to you KK. Do you want to see another P.E.V. in 2013 ?
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 21, 2012 18:57:38 GMT 3
Akinyi, As pointed our earlier its the manner in which they are criticizing the independent body and in particular the chairman Isaack Hassan . If they can go ahead and threat that they wont abide by the simple decision of IEBC what about when he announces the next president contrary to their expectations and wants ? As for the excerpts of Ruto ,Kalonzo and Muite they have approached the situation in a sober manner unlike the threats of -Raila - "Prime Minister Raila Odinga on Sunday maintained that December 17 would be the date for the next general election." Otieno Kajwang -"Immigration minister Otieno Kajwang’ echoed the Prime Minister’s sentiments and told the IEBC chairman Isaack Hassan that he had no mandate to declare the election date."
"He threatened to mobilize Parliament to remove Mr Hassan from office for overstepping his mandate."
Midiwo -"Midiwo claimed IEBC had been compromised by Kibaki’s Party of National Unity and had overstepped its mandate. "
However, Raila and his allies insisted that elections must be held this year to avoid extending Kibaki’s term in office beyond the limit.
By ODM leaders (Nyanza) disrespecting the IEBC and its chair will their supporters respect the institution?
nowayhahaLike Akinyi says the heading is alarmist and yes unnecessarily so! Kajwang and Raila aren't the only people in Kenya to say that IEBC doesn't have the power to set the election date. Then Midiwo says that the organization has been compromised by Kibaki forces. Where exactly is the threat that you're harping on? KK, See below Jobs sums it up , If the 2 bodies(I.E.B.C. & Constitutional Courts ) are the ones provided by law to oversee the election and any petitions arising from the elections then there is need to give them utmost respect from the leaders especially the ones participating in the G.E. or else their supporters wont accept or abide to those decisions and this in result can cause the mayhem witnessed in 2007 jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6731&page=2#92822
3. Utmost respect for newly established Constitutional bodies is something that needs to be rummed into the heads of those currently milling around the PM.
As you can see in this clip below it has resulted to IEBC openly albeit "not for the camera "airing out Midiwo and Raila promises of kupiga vita IEBC . This is dangerous talk [youtube] [/youtube] And from Kriegler commission on the 2007 G.E. it was not clear as to who won the 2007 elections so there is a percentage of population which still believes O.D.M. came to power using plots such as undermining the Kivuitu led E.C.K. by rigging claims prior to 2007 elections and rubbishing the then constitutional courts as corrupt and in the process refusing to seek legal redress . The bottom line the 2 institutions were reformed so that the public could have confidence in them , Leaders shouldnt use politics to build perceptions of IEBC and Courts as incompetent . This can be counter productive and was one of the major finding by Kriegler Commision. "That the conduct of the electoral process was hampered and the electoral environment was polluted by the conduct of many public participants, especially political parties and the media." www.ncck.org/index.php/information/publications/115.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 19, 2012 16:25:49 GMT 3
nowayhaha, i think the title of your thread is unnecessarily alarmist. Isaack/IEBC made a proposal which i think was meant to provoke debate and possibly jolt the principals to give direction. Someone shared a clip (elsewhere)showing reactions to the march 4th 2013 proposal. some kenyans supported next year's date, others insisted on August this year, some December this year and one even suggested holding off elections until the ICC cases are resolved. Kajwang' and jakoyo and others are free to rant just like everyone else. How does this translate to ODM preparing the ground to refuse 'results'. what results? do you know something that the rest of us don't? BTW stop being selective. sample these exerpts from the same standard article : At the same time Government Chief Whip Jakoyo Midiwo and Makadara MP Mike Mbuvi threatened to move to court to challenge IEBC’s action accusing the election administrator of overstepping its mandate.Mbuvi and Midiwo separately said their lawyers were preparing to move to court on Monday (to challenge the IEBC decision). Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka and Eldoret North MP William Ruto urged the IEBC to listen to the dissenting voice of Kenyans and consider another polls date, possibly in December this year.He said the IEBC should learn from the mistakes of its predecessor, the defunct Electoral Commission of Kenya and stop making unilateral decisions that are likely to invite confusion in the electoral processSafina Party leader Paul Muite described IEBC’s move as "unlawful and suspect" give it only came days after Kibaki announced preference for a March 2013 date.
Muite argued Kibaki is in office courtesy of National Accord and Reconciliation Act, that created the coalition government, and his continued stay in office "would extend illegitimacy of the Coalition Government." etcAkinyi, As pointed our earlier its the manner in which they are criticizing the independent body and in particular the chairman Isaack Hassan . If they can go ahead and threat that they wont abide by the simple decision of IEBC what about when he announces the next president contrary to their expectations and wants ? As for the excerpts of Ruto ,Kalonzo and Muite they have approached the situation in a sober manner unlike the threats of -Raila - "Prime Minister Raila Odinga on Sunday maintained that December 17 would be the date for the next general election." Otieno Kajwang -"Immigration minister Otieno Kajwang’ echoed the Prime Minister’s sentiments and told the IEBC chairman Isaack Hassan that he had no mandate to declare the election date." "He threatened to mobilize Parliament to remove Mr Hassan from office for overstepping his mandate." Midiwo -"Midiwo claimed IEBC had been compromised by Kibaki’s Party of National Unity and had overstepped its mandate. " However, Raila and his allies insisted that elections must be held this year to avoid extending Kibaki’s term in office beyond the limit. By ODM leaders (Nyanza) disrespecting the IEBC and its chair will their supporters respect the institution?
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 19, 2012 2:41:35 GMT 3
Sample the following polarizing statements from ODM (Nyanza)leaders - "Prime Minister Raila Odinga on Sunday maintained that December 17 would be the date for the next general election." "Immigration minister Otieno Kajwang’ echoed the Prime Minister’s sentiments and told the IEBC chairman Isaack Hassan that he had no mandate to declare the election date." "He threatened to mobilize Parliament to remove Mr Hassan from office for overstepping his mandate." www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Raila+insists+on+December+elections/-/1064/1368680/-/y0lfgcz/-/index.html"Midiwo claimed IEBC had been compromised by Kibaki’s Party of National Unity and had overstepped its mandate. " However, Raila and his allies insisted that elections must be held this year to avoid extending Kibaki’s term in office beyond the limit. www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000054367&cid=4¤tPage=2The manner in which the leaders are criticizing the IEBC is alarming .It shows that they don't have utmost respect for the independent body and portrays the true characters of the leaders in that if a decision is made to an effect it does not side with them then they wont respect the decision . Just like in 2007 when they laid ground to cast the 2007 elections as rigged and later refusing to accept the results with claims of a "stolen " victory are doing it again by attacking the credibility of IEBC Below are the 2007 events which culminated to refusal of ODM to accept the 2007 presidential election results jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1503www.network54.com/Forum/204096/thread/1331677340/last-1331707668/ODM+Hate+campaign
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 19, 2012 1:53:24 GMT 3
. Different routes same destination -the ball should be on ODMs court if they are that serious to have a Dec-2012 general election they should start the process rather than hoodwinking Kenyans but then again O.D.M. is just another ordinary Kenyan party ........................... nowayhaha, where did you get that? toa hiyo i say. Nereah and Adongo, A second high profile lawyer after Martha Karua and infact the present LSK chairman emphasizing that should Raila walk out of the coalition then it will lead off to an elections within 3 months. Law Society of Kenya chairman Erick Mutua supported IEBC saying the electoral body had complied with the High Court directive. He, however, warned that should Raila’s party walk out of the coalition, then elections must be held after three months. www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000054367&cid=4¤tPage=3Narc Kenya presidential aspirant Martha Karua challenged Mr Odinga to trigger an early election by pulling out of the Coalition Government in accordance with Article 6 of the National Accord and Reconciliation Act. “If the PM is serious about having elections in December, let him pull out of the government by October,” she said. Article 6 of the National Accord and Reconciliation Act says the coalition will stand dissolved if one of the coalition partners withdraws from the coalition by a resolution of its highest decision making organ. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/ODM+ministers+differ+with+Raila++/-/1064/1369014/-/110pwvl/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 18, 2012 0:02:31 GMT 3
Peace Must Not Be the Victim of International Justice Op-Ed Contributor Peace Must Not Be the Victim of International Justice By IAN PAISLEY Published: March 16, 2012 * Recommend * Twitter * Linkedin * Sign In to E-Mail * Print * Reprints * ShareClose o Digg o Reddit o Tumblr o Permalink o An African proverb states, “Peace is costly but it is worth the expense.” This week the International Criminal Court delivered its first guilty verdict in its nearly 10-year existence, with the conviction of the warlord Thomas Lubanga for the coercion of children as soldiers in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The court to date has spent around $1 billion. Justice has been done, but there is no peace in that country. Related in News * Times Topic: International Criminal Court The court’s success as a vehicle for delivering justice continues to be debated. The I.C.C. was founded amid much fanfare, but its track record — with only this single conviction — has been poor. Arguably, the cases before it are complex, and it was always going to take time for a new institution to complete them. But this misses the point. The I.C.C. was intended as an instrument for delivering peace. In this respect it has not been a success. It will continue to falter because its current methods go against the experience of many places in Africa and around the world where peace has been delivered through political negotiations and reconciliation efforts, not the imposition of international justice. Over the past 20 years, countries divided by ethnicity and political turmoil, from South Africa to Liberia, from Sierra Leone to Rwanda, have been brought together through reconciliation. In my own experience, both as a peace envoy for the United Nations and the European Union to Guinea-Bissau, and as a peace-process negotiator in my native Northern Ireland, this was the case. During the height of the Troubles in the 1970s and 1980s, the British government used the courts to prosecute its opponents in Northern Ireland. People with blood on their hands were portrayed as martyrs by their supporters. But through a peace process that was backed by the international community — not driven by it — two hostile communities were able to come together to share power in our common home. People on both sides have committed violence, yet we now sit in government together, determined to put the past behind us for the common good. If the I.C.C. had been in existence during the Northern Ireland peace process, or in 1995, when South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission began its work, there would no doubt have been calls for it to intervene and prosecute those accused of violence. This would have driven old enemies even further apart in recrimination and hostility, hobbling the chance for peace. I am not making an argument against I.C.C.’s existence: In places where there is no functioning government, or the government is hostage to one section of society, or where there is no viable reconciliation process, the international community has a duty to ensure that the court is the guardian of justice. But the pursuit of justice should not replace or undermine ongoing national reconciliation efforts. The foremost challenge facing the I.C.C. is to determine whether its intervention will help or hinder the cause of peace. The wheels of justice must be allowed to turn at their own pace, but that they must not impede the peace process. In Kenya, where one the court’s most high-profile cases is taking place, the I.C.C. has focused on bringing to trial those accused of inciting post-election violence in 2007-8. This risks fueling divisions in a country where tribal loyalties and factionalism still dominate politics. Kenya, often seen as a great African success story, is now heading toward a dangerous impasse. The court’s determination to bring to trial several defendants accused of fomenting violence has enabled Prime Minister Raila Odinga to call for the arrest of his main political opponent, Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta, son of the country’s founding president, who now faces I.C.C. charges. Mr. Odinga and Mr. Kenyatta are both leaders in a coalition government that came together with the support of the international community precisely in order to reconcile Kenya’s opposing political and tribal groupings. Yet the I.C.C.’s intervention is increasingly likely to drive this government and the country further apart, allowing a political leader from one ethnic group to try to remove an opponent from another ethnic group from the scene. This is particularly perilous when the root of the post-election violence in Kenya is tribal conflict. The I.C.C. must never be an instrument that can fuel the potential for division. And where the court intervenes it must be an exemplar of justice at its best, with standards that are above question. This has not always been the case: The Kenyan case rests on a main witness who has changed his statements several times, and is under a witness protection plan partly funded by the British government, which has publicly supported the trial. This has fueled the erroneous belief among some Kenyans that the Western powers that fund the court are seeking to divide and rule the country themselves. Proponents of the I.C.C. say there cannot be peace without justice. Yet experience teaches us that this is not always the case. Reconciliation is not an easy option, but it does allow people to move forward with the hope of unity, and the potential for justice in the future. The experiences of Northern Ireland and South Africa show us that there is nothing more important than peace. If this means the International Criminal Court does not always intervene or deliver justice, it may be a price that is worth paying. Ian Paisley is the son of the Rev. Ian Paisley and a member of the British Parliament from Northern Ireland. A version of this op-ed appeared in print on March 17, 2012, in The International Herald Tribune. www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/peace-must-not-be-the-victim-of-international-justice.html?_r=1
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 21:17:04 GMT 3
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 20:53:41 GMT 3
Election date elicits varied reactions Written By:KBC Reporters, Posted: Sat, Mar 17, 2012 The IEBC chairman cited unpreparedness for the elections this year by due to the yet to start voter registration The March 4 2013 date for general elections' decision by the Independent Electoral Boundaries Commission has elicited immediate sharp reactions with the political class split right in the middle. Prime Minister Raila Odinga hit out at the courts previous ruling arguing it goes against tradition insisting elections have always been held in December since the start of multipartyism in 1992. His argument comes even as the Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka pointed out though he would have preferred a December election Kenyans should remain united as there is still a window for the coalition partners to negotiate. Speaking at Gusii stadium during centenary celebrations for Roman Catholic church, diocese of Kisii, Raila faulted the Isaack Hassan led commission saying the date will disrupt learning programmes in schools. According to Raila, the controversial issue should be subjected to wide consultations with a view to fixing a new date for December this year. The IEBC chairman had cited unpreparedness for the elections this year by the IEBC due to yet to start voter registration, newly created constituencies and reluctance by the two principals to chart the way forward. Orange Democratic Movement says the decision by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission to declare March 4th 2013 as the date of the next general election is illegal. ODM secretary General Anyang' Nyong'o termed the decision as premature saying the commission should have awaited the dissolution of the current parliament whose term expires in January 14th before announcing a date. However, Nyong'o ruled out any intentions by the party to pull out of the coalition government to pave way for elections this year. Narc Kenya party Martha Karua also opposed the IEBC date saying MP's will be making earnings illegally as their term will have expired by 30th December. Deputy Prime Minister and ODM Presidential contender Musalia Mudavadi says he would have to study the reasons advanced by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) for settling on the 4th March, 2013 as the election date before giving his take. He however said Kenyans should focus more on the IEBC's preparations for the election which he said need to be well prepared to ensure they were free and fair. Elsewhere, Starehe MP Bishop Margaret Wanjiru backed the March date saying it will provide a chance for political parties to comply with the new constitution. She also cited enactment of bills by parliament, implementation of new electoral boundaries, voter registration and modalities to engage Kenyans in the Diaspora to vote as many considerations that require time. kbc.co.ke/news.asp?nid=75445
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 20:46:07 GMT 3
six quick ones:
1.if i heard isaak hassan correctly, the electoral body can effectively conduct an election this year.agwambo has accepted.the only stumbling block now is mzee kibaki. that should be the news that the media goes to town with not that election will be held 2013.
2.kenyans have stated through numerous opinion polls that they want elections this year.its only mzee kibaki and his think alike, its seems who is not aware of this. the constitution vest in kenya the ultimate sovereignty of this country and if push come to shove, millions of signatures and legal mechanism can be effected to ensure the rouge political class heed to the wishes of the masses.
3.the 2013 date is impracticable for reasons that agwambo has ably explained but more importantly inimical if not adversarial to the regional tranquility and economic progress that the west expect of.kenya as the latest issue of east african newspaper explain in its cover story, is too critical that political uncertainty and subsequent risks like insecurity would be heightened with delayed elections or prolonged electioneering(for that's what this is )
4.the 2013 date is fine with odm but not popular with kenyans hence the need for the party to abide by the wishes of kenyans. for those who thought it would work against odm and raila(i have heard of the idle talk that once the december date passes,its only kibaki who would be exercising the constitutional authority untill the march election since the office of the prime minister would be constitutionally untenable),nothing can be further from truth.
5.elections are also economic stimulus i may argue and in kenya the daily nation had run a special supplement of those in this industry-from printers to communication agencies.many had deployed resources for the august elections and those bank loans would be renegotiated.
6.in addition to this are those like of our miguna miguna who were hoping to maximise on the electioneering season not only to make money but deal lethal blow to those they consider enemies.contracts will have to be renegotiated again.
Nereah, During the O.D.M. press conference Nyongo stated on behalf of the party that O.D.M. prefers a Dec Election though O.D.M. is not ready to leave the Coalotion government. The requirements were clear by the courts ruling for the elections to held in 2012 then it will be upon the 2 principles to dissolve the coalition government else it follows second option based on the courts judgement for electrol body to set the date within 60 days from the expiry of the term of the 10th Parliament. In the follow up to the subject matter Martha Karua suggested to O.D.M. If they mean what the say then they should go ahead and walkout from the coalition government by October thus dissolving the government and in return having a DEC 2012 election. It is crystal clear ODM a playing P.R. games with Kenyans .If they want a Dec 2012 and they can influence the dissolution of the coalition government as an equal partner like P.N.U . then it follows do that ? Taking the route of Consultation between Raila and Kibaki the end result will be the same dissolve coalition government by Oct-2012 to have a Dec-2012 General elections. Different routes same destination -the ball should be on ODMs court if they are that serious to have a Dec-2012 tgeneral election they should start the process rather than hoodwinking Kenyans but then again O.D.M. is just another ordinary Kenyan party ...........................
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 9:22:43 GMT 3
KK , Its such type of statements/remarks especially from Raila and his followers which led to the violence witnessed in 2008, do you have any evidence that Raila or Kibaki orchestrated a violent coup, a matter of fact who amongst the 2 came to power due to a violent coup remember No Raila No Peace call by the lieutenants ? Everyone in the world knows this .....who is everyone in the world ? Ruto , Balala and now Mudavadi........ or is it Midiwo , Orengo amd the likes of kajwang -ODM is Raila's party Honestly its such type of attitudes which led to the P.E.V. If Raila doesnt become the president then Kenya is finished . Raila should sell his policies on how how he will make Kenya a better place or in that matter improve Kenya from it social , political , economical position e.t.c. and his supporters should use this opportunity to sell his policies and convince the unbelievers into accepting a Raila presidency due to its benefits. Else we find ourselves in 2012 5 years latter in the same scenario as 2007 ...Kibaki betrayed Raila on M.O.U - Kibaki " stole elections from Raila in 2012 - Kenya should burn . Nowayhaha, You can lie yourself to sleep and that's fine but you will not take us all with you. Kibaki was fully in charge of the the defunct ECK after arbitrarily appointing ECK commissioners. Why do you think he made those unilateral appointments? He was fully in charge of the security apparatus. Who whisked away Kivuitu to secretly announce the cooked electoral results? When Justice Kriegler says that electoral irregularities messed up so much that it was difficult to conclude who won, who do you think benefitted on that score? Do you need more evidence of how the civilian coup was engineered? Kibaki had the constitutional mandate to act like a statesman/leader and he fell short. It is on his watch that broken promises and deals led to the kind of mistrust and wanton destruction that took place. Like it or not that is his report card for the first 5 years of his presidency. The ratcheting up of political temperatures by his erstwhile supporters has also gone on under his watch. How has he tried to reign them in? By allowing Ruto to ride on the presidential land rover? Play with fire at your own risk. Freedom and dignity are so valuable that throughout human history anyone who tried to limit them eventually got crushed by their might. Ebarasi, Here is a member of the former Pentagon and former deputy leader of ODM saying as it is.The truth is as also noted by some members is Raila became the premier largely to the P.E.V. and if there was no P.E.V. Raila would have come the official Opposition leader “Raila does not believe in anything that does not favour him as he rides on rigged polls and unconstitutional means to leadership,” he said. “It is the violence that rocked the country that transformed Raila from a presidential election loser to a Prime Minister and a co-principal.” www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Why+Raila+lost+his+cool+in+Hague+debate+/-/1064/1367960/-/item/2/-/lhin62z/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2012 14:04:01 GMT 3
There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you. KK , Its such type of statements/remarks especially from Raila and his followers which led to the violence witnessed in 2008, do you have any evidence that Raila or Kibaki orchestrated a violent coup, a matter of fact who amongst the 2 came to power due to a violent coup remember No Raila No Peace call by the lieutenants ? Everyone in the world knows this .....who is everyone in the world ? Ruto , Balala and now Mudavadi........ or is it Midiwo , Orengo amd the likes of kajwang -ODM is Raila's party Honestly its such type of attitudes which led to the P.E.V. If Raila doesnt become the president then Kenya is finished . Raila should sell his policies on how how he will make Kenya a better place or in that matter improve Kenya from it social , political , economical position e.t.c. and his supporters should use this opportunity to sell his policies and convince the unbelievers into accepting a Raila presidency due to its benefits. Else we find ourselves in 2012 5 years latter in the same scenario as 2007 ...Kibaki betrayed Raila on M.O.U - Kibaki " stole elections from Raila in 2012 - Kenya should burn .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2012 10:16:01 GMT 3
RR Something for you to decipher This hypocrisy must stop and Kenyans who genuinely love Kenya must resist any attempt by neo-colonialists to continue babysitting this nation in an attempt to influence business and multi-billion shilling contracts that are now heading East.www.standardmedia.co.ke/commentaries/InsidePage.php?id=2000054019&cid=15&Prime Minister Raila Odinga has finally come clean on what he would like to see happen to his leading presidential race opponents. His views, which were plastered all over the print media at the weekend, are unbecoming of a man who wishes to be the next chief executive officer of Kenya. Stop the madness I read a lot of pettiness in his views. They allude to a lack of wisdom on his part. As a beneficiary of the anarchy that riddled Kenya during the post-election violence, Raila should be the last man to lecture us on who should be jailed. This is the man who single handedly sat back and watched Kenyans butcher one another in the hope that the international community would step in and hand him the presidency. This is the man whose top lieutenants stood on podiums and in front of glaring cameras and declared that there will be no peace if the presidency is not handed to him. A man who, at the time had the attention of his followers and it would only have taken his word to stop the madness. He chose to watch from the sidelines. To be honest, can he outline what individual effort he made to stop the killings? Can he quote a single public appearance he made at the height of the killings to stop his supporters from the aggression before it got out of hand? Has the international community with their underhand dealings and keen attention to place a puppet in the house at the hill sat back and looked at what really stopped the violence? Vacate office Their preferred candidate did nothing; he watched, hoping that if the situation turned into a massacre, maybe the people he claimed had stolen the elections would vacate office. Has anyone ever sat back and asked whether a stolen election (which has never been proven and evidence shows there were election malpractices in areas where the ODM party leader garnered a near 100 per cent result) can warrant a candidate to condone the butchering of innocent Kenyans just because they helped his opponent defeat him by merely executing their democratic right? This hypocrisy must stop and Kenyans who genuinely love Kenya must resist any attempt by neo-colonialists to continue babysitting this nation in an attempt to influence business and multi-billion shilling contracts that are now heading East. All indicators now show that the ICC cases facing four Kenyans at the ICC are nothing but an attempt to bar political opponents of the PM from participating in the General Election. This is way too cheap even for someone who appears too ready to go to any lengths to clinch the presidency. What Kenyans need to see are blueprints of what would-be presidential candidates would do with the presidency. What Kenyans need to hear are measures being taken by individual presidential aspirants and their parties to ensure that the country remains peaceful and united during and after the General Election. But for someone with no blueprint and no idea what they want to do with the presidency other than to add it on to their curriculum vitae, there is no better way to handle it than to eliminate opponents and seek the help of foreigners in locking them out. Real motive The instruments of democracy will not be compromised by such antics. Kenyans have come of age and they will not be manipulated, never again. Let the PM understand that Kenya’s sovereignty is supreme and will be guarded at all costs and no remarks will stop Kenyans from unearthing the real motive behind the clamour for an ICC trial. He of all people should be aware that those whom the gods seek to destroy, they first make insane.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 19:52:46 GMT 3
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 18:25:34 GMT 3
Boy, we have a difficult task on Jukwaa. Since you ask. It is the way diplomacy is conducted. The British are interested in maintaining good diplomatic relations. He will be personally assuring the government that it is indeed a forgery (even though our own experts have confirmed the same). He will restate that, other than seeing free and fair elections, his government has no other interest in the 2012 elections. He will be demanding investigation and arrest of those who created the forgery and endangered bilateral relations. He may ask for an apology. RR As you can see the plot thickens and as you correctly pointed out some things are not black and white Britain's undersecretary in charge of Africa and the ICC Henry Bellingham will be in Kenya next week to meet leaders and shed light on the contents of the document. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1365572/-/item/0/-/dip4fy/-/index.htmlMarende: House team has final say on 'leaked' document Speaker Kenneth Marende has said a House team will establish whether a document tabled in the House last week is genuine. In at ruling to a charged House, Mr Marende said the admissibility of the document alleging a UK plot to have President Kibaki indicted by the International Criminal Court could not be challenged. He said he was “satisfied” that his deputy Farah Maalim had “properly exercised his mind” in ascertaining that the document met the threshold of authenticity in the House, because it was dated and had a signature. “I leave it to the judgment of Kenyans, the leaders and the international community to decide what value they want to attach to that document. It is upon them to give that document the weight they think it deserves,” said Mr Marende. He thus left the matter to the House Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations which is investigating the matter. It is only after the committee is ready with the report and it presents it for debate that the matter will surface in the House. Prior to his ruling, Mr Marende had to dismiss queries raised by Ms Rachel Shebesh (nominated, ODM) who had led the calls to have the document expunged. He told Ms Shebesh that the National Security Intelligence Service was yet to speak on the authenticity of the document. When he appeared before the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee on Monday, Foreign Affairs minister Moses Wetang’ula had said that the NSIS agency had “urged caution” regarding the document. The British Government has disowned the document as “not genuine”. The Speaker rejected the statement of the British High Commission tabled in the House because it was not dated and bore no signature. Ms Shebesh had tabled the British High Commission statement, but the Speaker told her that she had broken the rules of the House for which she was seeking the other document to be expunged from parliamentary records. Share This Story Share Related Stories * UK sends minister in ‘leaked’ papers row “I am afraid I cannot make that finding. I don’t think (Ms Shebesh) looked at the documents that she has tabled. It has no date, it is unsigned. It is of no value. I find this document completely worthless,” Mr Marende ruled. The Speaker said the NSIS had to meet the Defence and Foreign Relations team to shed light on the veracity of the document, and that the Minister of Foreign Affairs too had to personally “speak” on the matter regarding the “serious” contents of the document. “I can’t be guided by just mere allegations. We must proceed with caution. We can’t be a House that thrives on allegations,” he warned the MPs. “As to whether the document is a forgery or not, I really can’t say. I can’t determine that. There are other arms of government that can do that,” said Mr Marende. Effectively, what the Speaker did is to let the matter play out in the House and it will be decided based on the numbers of the MPs in the House. And for now, the G7 political alliance, in which Eldoret North MP William Ruto and Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta sit in, commands considerable sway in the august House. As MPs canvassed the matter in the House, the Speaker had to wield the big stick and limit them not to use the floor of the House to make political statements or even to discuss the conduct of the British Government. Harun Mwau (Kilome), had alerted the Speaker about what he called “discrimination in the application and implementation of the Standing Orders” saying that when a document was laid in the House alleging that he was a drug-trafficker and a father-in-law to an MP in the House, there was no gag order for a substantive motion to discuss his fate or that of the other MPs mentioned. Mr Mwau wondered what all the fuss was regarding the document alleging a UK plot in investigating President Kibaki. He warned the Speaker that it would be consistent for him, should he choose to expunge the controversial document, also to go back and expunge the US dossier that implicated MPs in drug dealing. But Mr Marende said that he won’t be intimidated and said that it would be upon the House to determine the fate of the controversial document. Eugene Wamalwa (Saboti) who sits in the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee said the team had summoned the Director General of the NSIS, Major General Michael Gichangi, to shed light about what he knew regarding the document. The document has sparked political temperatures in the country, with Prime Minister Raila Odinga tearing into Mr Ruto and Mr Kenyatta over what he alleged was their plot to lay the groundwork for non-cooperation with the International Criminal Court. MPs had threatened to file a motion to discuss the content of the controversial document and the conduct of the British Government, but that too will now have to wait, because a House committee is seized of the matter. Britain's undersecretary in charge of Africa and the ICC Henry Bellingham will be in Kenya next week to meet leaders and shed light on the contents of the document.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 14:34:50 GMT 3
RR, Thanks to Wikileaks the public atleast now know how "super powerS" create policies and decisions specially in regards to 3rd world countries . Let me take you slowly NWHH (i hope you don't mind my shortening your longish name). If you want to quote Wikileaks then you perhaps will accept that Raila is unlikely to be the darling of the West. According to Wikileaks. The forgeries are based on a reading of wikileaks. But there are no atrocious spelling mistakes and poor grammer on wikileaks. There is no Kikuyu on Wikileaks or the UK government to say 'in right of this' instead of 'in light of this'. In short, if Wikileaks helps us see how the super powers create policy, it also helps us see how the document you rely on is forged. Incoherent. Yes, they normally do not comment on contents of 'leaked' documents. And note the part in bold - there is no minister 'in charge of the ICC' in the UK. The person coming is the under-secretary responsible for African affairs. It helps to command your facts NWHH. I have always though your (Uhuru and Ruto group) view is that having them at the ICC works against Raila. Can you decide which is which? Incidentally you have not read the forgery carefully. It talks of indicting Kibaki after the elections. Not before. In the spirit of patriotism, I should hope you will support the arrest of Uhuru and Ruto; and their jailing given evidence that they presided over serious crimes. I do not see anything wrong with that. Do you? You are clueless here. So I won't even bother. I think its part of the empty myth making. But this I will say: some things are not black and white. Supposing you were told that Raila has even more impeccable relations with the Chinese, then what will you say? Finally, NWHH - it was great to indulge you. I have to focus on other more rewarding pursuits. I hope you learnt a thing or two. Till next time. Cheers RR As stated earlier the ODM claims of the document being forged does not rebut that UK government is considering indicting Kibaki and having UhuRuto jailed before elections thus paving way for a Raila presidency .How many documents have been forged worldwide in relation to UK government ? Why send a minister to Kenya to calm down the situation after the "forged documents " were "leaked" Here is the profile of Henry Bellingham- The minister coming to Kenya and one of his Key responsibility is - UN and the International Criminal Courtwww.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/our-ministers/henry-bellingham
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 12:27:48 GMT 3
Boy, we have a difficult task on Jukwaa. Since you ask. It is the way diplomacy is conducted. The British are interested in maintaining good diplomatic relations. He will be personally assuring the government that it is indeed a forgery (even though our own experts have confirmed the same). He will restate that, other than seeing free and fair elections, his government has no other interest in the 2012 elections. He will be demanding investigation and arrest of those who created the forgery and endangered bilateral relations. He may ask for an apology. RR, Thanks to Wikileaks the public atleast now know how "super powerS" create policies and decisions specially in regards to 3rd world countries . Something doesnt seem to add up from the UKs side since the "forged dossier" was leaked that is from Her Majesty's government doesn't comment on leaked information- (They went ahead and issued an official statement) to the Majesty's government not intending to further on the issue of the "forged documents ", nor undertake a running public commentary on the said unscrupulous agenda to sending a Minister responsible for ICC to Kenya and BTW its just next week and the public will know if it is true the UK is rooting for a Raila presidency thus for this reason considering to have Kibaki indicted and UhuRuto arrested before the elections thus rendering them ineligible to vie in the elections. It is well known why UK and US dont have a soft heart for Kibaki .Government contracts and tenders during his tenure/regime were awarded to East (read China e.t.c.) and not the west (read UK & US) and UhRuto having not made any assurances to UK & US that they will revert this they have only one man in Raila who they can bank on .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 11:53:54 GMT 3
Nowayhaha, your conception of leadership as conveyed by your chosen title is childish, narrow-minded and myopic. A simplistic statement made out of ignorance and likely from political estimation, does not make one a leader. The regular calls to 'cool temperatures' even when we should urge outrage is to blame for the increasing tolerance for impunity and the general spinelessness among the Kenyan elite. However, several things are interesting: 1. Mudavadi is not talking about justice for the victims. He is more interested in 'avoiding injustice for the Ocampo 4'. Is that here his loyalties lie? 2. Over the past few months, Uhuru and Ruto have been shouting Raila's name everywhere. Prayer rally after prayer rally. Then they brought the forgeries. Mudavadi did not for any moment urge people to stop issuing 'inflammatory comments'. Yet he suddenly found his voice today? I cringe at the hypocrisy of it all. 3. If Mudavadi is trying to be 'the voice of reason' or the 'moderate' that is fine. That is how Moi was viewed. But Kenyans are much more cleverer than that. We saw how Moi quickly became a kleptocrat and dictator. That is why I prefer Raila: what you see is what you get. We will have to vet Mudavadi with the same brush strokes as everybody else. 4. In any case, a lesson for Mudavadi: Kalonzo Musyoka has not been successful with these katikati politics where you attempt to please everybody, issue bland statements and avoid taking sides on difficult issues. His image is in tatters. Kenyans want strong leaders who can make bold decisions based on principle rather than narrow ethnic and political demagoguery. 5. If Mudavadi wins the ODM presidential nominations; then he should be supported to the hilt by the party. He MUST be allowed free and fair contest. If he does NOT win, he must accept the results and stick to the party. RR as you can see many Kenyans hold the same opinion .Sample this comment from DN Leadership. Temperament. National Unity above personal glorification. These are the values that make a president. Knowing when to talk, what to talk and how to talk. It's these must have qualities that Raila Odinga does not have. He is fortunate to have become PM. He is too caught up in himself to be trusted with power that requires care and humility. Mudavadi has shown the ability to rise above national divisive issues and in so doing expressed the high character of a good leader. I pick him over Raila any day
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 11:18:14 GMT 3
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 13, 2012 10:45:57 GMT 3
Deputy Prime Minister Musalia Mudavadi on Monday told politicians to stop issuing comments which could deny the Ocampo Four a fair trial in the International Criminal Court. In a statement that appeared to be directed at the Prime Minister Raila Odinga, Mr Mudavadi said those issuing inflammatory comments were doing injustice to Mr Uhuru Kenyatta, William Ruto, Francis Muthaura and Joshua Sang, who are facing criminal charges at the ICC. Fair hearing “This is a serious and weighty matter which should be left alone so that the suspects can be given a fair hearing,” he said when he addressed Kirinyaga County delegates at Roswam hotel in Kerugoya Town. Mr Mudavadi said he would like to see a just judicial process free of any influence. Mr Odinga was on Sunday reported to have said Mr Kenyatta and Mr Ruto should be in jail over crimes against humanity. Mr Mudavadi dismissed as untrue rumours that he was planning to abandon ODM. “I’m in ODM and whatever is being rumoured is false,” he said. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Mudavadi+warns+on+ICC+talk+/-/1064/1365188/-/mwivp5z/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 11, 2012 18:35:04 GMT 3
Raila plays into the tricks of Uhuruto ...... Why arrest Uhuru and Ruto and Not Sang and Muthaura ? Is Mudavadi safe ? If Raila wins the the president-ship will he become a dictator and alienate Mudavadi after the latter helps him clinch the top position just like he did with Ruto ......Is it true that Raila is using the ICC process to make sure Uhuruto are arrested in Jail so that they dont run for presidency . All this is corroborated by the letters of O.D.M. to U.N. and such prime-ministerial statements . Going by this I see Kibaki in the Jails of Hague when Raila becomes the president not that he has been found guilty just like in the case of Uhuruto but for political scores . This brings the question is it true Raila is working with foreign powers and using the ICC as tool to "end impunity" and what has has Raila promised the foreign nations and ICC ? unday, March 11 2012 at 16:37 Prime Minister Raila Odinga should not use his post to call for the arrest of those he considers his rivals, Deputy PM Uhuru Kenyatta and Eldoret North MP William Ruto said on Sunday. Mr Kenyatta said it was unfortunate for the PM to make such remarks considering International Criminal Court (ICC) matters were sensitive. “It is such reckless remarks that led to the 2007 crisis which led to the loss of lives and property. He must not be allowed to polarise our country in this manner,” he said. Mr Ruto said the PM should be the first person to be jailed if the post-election violence mystery is to be resolved since a Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNCHR) report had implicated him. “In fact he (Raila) became the greatest beneficiary after the violence,” he said. The Eldoret North MP said findings of the KNCHR report should be made public for Kenyans to know other perpetrators of the 2007-2008 post-election violence. “If he is branding us as criminals, what about the allegations contained in the report that say he is the beneficiary of the violence,” the Eldoret North MP said. In an interview with the US based Kass FM, Mr Odinga called for prayer rallies organised by the G7 Alliance to be cancelled as they were amounting to incitement. Share This Story 4Share A statement from PM Odinga's Secretariat in the Sunday Nation reads: "These suspects of crimes against humanity remain free to traverse the country holding 'prayer meetings' while Kenyan suspects of the lesser crime of murder conduct their prayers only behind the forbidding walls of Kamiti Maximum Security Prison," the statement reads. In response to the statement, Mr Ruto said: “It is obvious and beyond reasonable doubt that the author, mastermind and architect of this grand scheme against us to be prosecuted politically and unfairly is actually done by Mr Odinga.” Speaking during a press conference at St Mathews Anglican Church of Kenya, Eldoret on Sunday, the United Republican Party (URP) leader said Mr Odinga was vilifying them now that he holds the PM post yet it was only formed to end the stalemate after the 2007 General Election. “Mr Odinga now believes we are criminals and should be behind bars. But he should have been put in before us. He is actually the principle beneficiary of the post-election violence,” he said. Mr Ruto said the PM should not use his post to call for the arrest of his rivals. “There has been a consistent pattern in ODM and the party wrote letters to the effect that we should be tried at The Hague. “This is now being followed to the letter by his collaborators in Europe who want us to be detained when we attend ICC summons,” he said. Mr Ruto said this “was a confirmation that Mr Odinga was part of the scheme to have them detained by ICC in the pretext that prayer meetings going around the country.” “Pray for us, we Kenyan politicians and leaders so that we set all our plans in a manner that will bring together Kenyans,” he added. Ruto, Uhuru hit back at Raila over 'prayer rallies' remark www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Ruto+and+Uhuru+hit+back+at+Raila+over+prayer+rallies+remark/-/1064/1364118/-/item/1/-/8sb8vnz/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 10, 2012 21:30:49 GMT 3
Ample time for Kibaki to be able to infuence appointments in positions of power .And surely he will use it as a stick to keep his coalition partner in check .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 5, 2012 10:15:07 GMT 3
Moi actually never endorsed Uhuru and certainly hypocrisy should seize in all form of manners - If you go through the clip very well he just suggested to the central people that with Michuki and Njenga gone they can bank on Uhuru to take the leadership mantle . Why is it that when Moi attended Railas wedding he is celebrated and when he attends Njengas Funeral he is condemned ? Is Uhuru and Ruto a threat to Railas presidency ..... Raila should just ignore UhuRuto and might achieve his lifelong dream
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 3, 2012 17:48:17 GMT 3
Uhurus speech was amazing and he eloquently delivered it coherently albeit in Swahili .He came out as an allrounder well educated and wise. a repeat of his performance in ICC which citizens were on the brink of forgetting . One could see a leader in the making and even to my opinion triggered Moi to point out that Uhuru is worth taking the mantle (remember in 97 polls when Moi said Kibaki simbaya hivyo) -led to the scene Ruto laughing happily in the background and Ida consulting a worried Raila
Where as Uhuru maintained a standard of respect and dignity in everything he said Raila did the opposite . Kibaki had to tell the public to shun politics and focus on what brought them there the Late Njenga Karume (hiyo nyengine wachaa .. siasa situnajua haitabadilika na hawatabadilika - which had the public in stitches)
All I can say Kudos to Uhuru - Once I get the clips I post them here for you to see
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Post by nowayhaha on Feb 27, 2012 14:03:58 GMT 3
From where I sit and with the little English that I know, the above is what is known as HEARSAY. As a lawyer, Miguna knows better than believe whatever he is told by third parties. Moreover, Miguna is yet to clearly come out and explain (like he has done in this case) his totally misplaced allegations that some ODM ministers (Bett, Kamar and others) were plotting to have Miguna eliminated. Miguna imagines that our memories here in Jukwaa are short-lived. His convenient selection of responses is a manifestation on how dubious this Miguna character is. Turning back to the so-called explosive book, it's clear that Miguna's publication is motivated by nothing other than political revenge. My predictions that Miguna's book is being driven to coincide with the general election campaigns is now there for all to see. And his financiers can only remain secret for a shortwhile before we also submit our explosive dossier on his project. It is also clear Miguna has an insatiable craving for attention and he cannot get that attention by just being Miguna. He can only get it by constantly making connections between his personal problems and PM Raila Odinga. When we voted for Raila in 2007, we knew he was already in the oil and gas business. It's not a secret that Miguna wants the world to believe that its suddenly being revealed by citizen tv. To make inference to RAO's family business is hogwash to say the least. PS @ Onyango Oloo, why must you be the one posting for Miguna whilst he has an active membership handle at Jukwaa? Why cant this man be brave enough to post and debate other Jukwaa members? Ama yeye alipanda ngazi na amakekataa kushuka? Also, @ Oloo, do not be so sure that Miguna is not on anyone's payroll. What we know and will soon publish will surprise even Miguna's close buddies. Phil you have always tried to link MM with Uhuruto by claiming he is on their payroll . This propaganda you started selling the day MM was fired from his job . MM has vehemently denied the allegation here on Jukwaa and even on K24 and Citizen Interviews . A question to you and OPM office , Do you believe ,in re-manufacturing this propaganda will sway the public or to that matter change the political rhetoric brought about by the content of the book ?
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Post by nowayhaha on Feb 27, 2012 12:46:41 GMT 3
How people forget it was just the other week when Raila went to bed with Museveni (who many Railets consider the devil due to Migingo & his "involvement" during the 2007-8 P.E.V. ) .This was considered being wise e.t.c. Same people are now criticizing Miguna for making a business move . Aint this Hypocrisy .The same people are even questioning Migunas integrity , they may start with their own integrity given that their hypocrisy is written all over board. jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6598&page=2
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