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Post by mzee on Nov 21, 2009 10:44:21 GMT 3
Nereah, Its Rutos right to strive for the top seat period. His eleoquency education and all those things you mention cannot take him far. Kalonzo has all the above qualities but you saw where he ended in the last elections. Its peoples trust that matters. Thats what made Raila what he is today. Do the kikuyus, Maasai´s, Luhyas, Mijikendas, Kambas, Samburus etc trust Ruto especially after the PEV? If the answer is no, then ODMers should rest easy.
My question is this; where will he get the votes to be prezzi? A section of Kalenjin vote alone cannot take him anywhere. Just ask Raila, he once contested the presidency and failed because he had only the luo vote to rely on. Just do you math to appreciate what Im saying.
At best he can prevent Raila from becoming prezzi, its called doing a Judas. When the fields becomes open in 2017 then he might just get somewhere. My belief is that Raila will not contest in that year.
Raila is always cautious, look at the way he bembelezad Judas until last minute. Thats the nature of the man. But he should stop daring cabinet ministers to quit. He should just sack them if he wants to.
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Post by nereah on Nov 21, 2009 11:24:30 GMT 3
Nereah, Its Rutos right to strive for the top seat period. His eleoquency education and all those things you mention cannot take him far. Kalonzo has all the above qualities but you saw where he ended in the last elections. Its peoples trust that matters. Thats what made Raila what he is today. Do the kikuyus, Maasai´s, Luhyas, Mijikendas, Kambas, Samburus etc trust Ruto especially after the PEV? If the answer is no, then ODMers should rest easy. My question is this; where will he get the votes to be prezzi? A section of Kalenjin vote alone cannot take him anywhere. Just ask Raila, he once contested the presidency and failed because he had only the luo vote to rely on. Just do you math to appreciate what Im saying. At best he can prevent Raila from becoming prezzi, its called doing a Judas. When the fields becomes open in 2017 then he might just get somewhere. My belief is that Raila will not contest in that year. Raila is always cautious, look at the way he bembelezad Judas until last minute. Thats the nature of the man. But he should stop daring cabinet ministers to quit. He should just sack them if he wants to. mzee, good points. an everage kale supporter of ruto at the mashinani knows, and even ruto knows that ruto's presidency and a kalenjin for that matter is a long shot. standard once published a story explaining why ruto & co are behaving badly in odm.I will refer the link once i get it.i think it is instructive. also, in one of their recent noise making sessions in the rift, one of ruto's apologists, i think it was either ruto the isaac or isaiya the cheruriot let slip something interesting:that even kalonzo gunned for presidency and lost miserably yet he is the vp today. the question is, does ruto have a soft underbelly? answer is yes.we read some months ago how these mps clinging on his coat tails temporarily clashed with him for what they felt a betrayal.there was even alleged reports quoting one of the rift's legislators that ruto buys his support from wajumbe. however judging from my preliminary research findings, ruto is fast learning from his past mistakes including and like raila, is now surounding himself with layers of strategists. within odm he has cleverly bagged key party officials like treasurer omingo magara,adan duale and parliamentary group leader ababu tawfiq. zuma did a polokwane on mbeki, ruto's men believe this could be one of the options. your guess on the consequence of this political mischief,if he opts for it, is as good as mine(refer to odm presidential candidate election results at kasarani) i cant tell whether playing a contempt card on ruto works but the energy,resources and company he is keeping as he runs around seems to betray something about his game plan. his actions may also betrays some one under pressure.i may be wrong though. i am saying that ruto the william and his followers are in this destabilization for the long haul and the earlier odm deal with him decisively the better.
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Post by mzee on Nov 21, 2009 13:31:23 GMT 3
Nereah, There are people here on Jukwaa who believe that there will be no ODM come 2012. I strongly disagree with such sentiments. I do believe that the party will be more vibrant than it is today come the D-Day/Y-Year. The first strategy of akina Ruto was to split ODM and isolate Raila. Not because R had any particular problems with Ruto but because they felt he was "too popular" in the RVP. Their attempt to somehow trigger "love" for UDM has hit the rock so many times they have abandoned it.
The thing left is to keep ranting about Raila until some kalles start hating the him too. What Ruto and co and carrying out is actually a hate campaign and nothing else. This is the new tactic and I think this is what ýou refer to as "fast learning".
Dont you see that the anti-R group that started with people like Magara, Namwamba, Duale etc has now been reduced to a kalenjin affair. All the above guys have realised that its a tribal thing that they really dont want to get involved in. Besides akina Ruto talk of my people this and my people that, not kenya this and kenya that. The others dont see a stake in the rebellion for they dont know what "my people mean". Raila cannot be appeasing Ruto at all times. Its not possible.
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Post by nereah on Nov 21, 2009 22:09:20 GMT 3
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Post by phil on Nov 22, 2009 12:00:02 GMT 3
When these liberated KANU era politicians suddenly find themselves moving from small time to big time, such ancient and amateur tactics are bound to resurface. It is a disgrace. From renting heavily indebted MPs of the 10th parliament, to renting squatters and now renting hecklers. Surely, what's next?
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Post by nereah on Nov 23, 2009 20:16:53 GMT 3
this is politics at its best and i love every bit of it. there was a time in ford-kenya when raila's chief protagonists,late wamalwa kijana had all majority mps on his side and r was was with the late oyangi mbajahs,moses keinos,kelvin wasongasetc. in nyanza, the only mps he could count on then were joab omino,orwa ojode,oburu odinga and pheobe asiyo.
this is a replay in rift valley where sirma the moses and henry the kosgey are sticking their neck out for him.sally the kosgey appears to be ish ish.
the ruto camp cant move out of rift-valley and pm has taken the battle to their backyard. i noticed that pm was with chris the obure,a strong statement given the huge kisii presence in rift-valley and rtd gen. nkaissery who said something beautiful that ought to keep the ruto and his allies awake all night.
then r pull a fast one again when he declared in usenge beach that he will not make his position known on the draft katiba.this is smart given that the ruto camp would have had a diversionary agenda.
it will now shape up into battle of numbers in bunge when the ruto rebels will be hoping for a comeuppance and this is where raila's political skills will be brought to bear.
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Post by johns on Nov 24, 2009 0:26:48 GMT 3
Nereah,
You seem to be enjoying if not wishing the ruto tantrums to continue distracting ODM from its agenda. Raila Odinga does not think of Rutos destabilization effort of ODM that much because Ruto is no much to Raila in everyway. Ruto can quack all day long as much as he wants but at the end of the day it will only earn him some votes even amongst Kalenjins.
Another thing you ought to embrace in your effort to raise Rutos profile in his so called confrontation with Raila is the fact that Rutos is being embolden by no one else but Kibaki himself. You have to remember that although the two principals seem to be giving a public impression that they work harmoniously, Kibaki and his pnu think tank will always look for holes to exploit against Raila at every opportunity they find. On one hand Kibaki talks about the need to foster the spirit of collective responsibility but on the other he encourages and give comfort and shelter to any ODM dissenter including cabinet ministers. That has always been the source of Rutos so called defiance towards the party leader and look for it to continue. The argument within pnu is: If Raila was able to do it to kibaki when he was kibakis minister why not Raila have a small taste of his own poison.
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Post by nereah on Nov 25, 2009 9:42:36 GMT 3
Nereah, You seem to be enjoying if not wishing the ruto tantrums to continue distracting ODM from its agenda. Raila Odinga does not think of Rutos destabilization effort of ODM that much because Ruto is no much to Raila in everyway. Ruto can quack all day long as much as he wants but at the end of the day it will only earn him some votes even amongst Kalenjins. Another thing you ought to embrace in your effort to raise Rutos profile in his so called confrontation with Raila is the fact that Rutos is being embolden by no one else but Kibaki himself. You have to remember that although the two principals seem to be giving a public impression that they work harmoniously, Kibaki and his pnu think tank will always look for holes to exploit against Raila at every opportunity they find. On one hand Kibaki talks about the need to foster the spirit of collective responsibility but on the other he encourages and give comfort and shelter to any ODM dissenter including cabinet ministers. That has always been the source of Rutos so called defiance towards the party leader and look for it to continue. The argument within pnu is: If Raila was able to do it to kibaki when he was kibakis minister why not Raila have a small taste of his own poison. johns, salamu kaka.thanks for enriching my thread with your input. i occupy the position that what you call ruto tantrums( i call it nuisance) and also pecieved pnu machinations against raila is just one of those political trials agwambo is now too accustomed to. these intrigues including the planned censure motion in parliament makes my day because of their entertainment value. nothing else. i also know for sure that kenyan politics is boring without a tango with raila and they never disappoint these pet peeves.dont they? the path ruto is bestriding is destined to a political junkyard. the nyachaes,oiles,kamandas,maithas,munyas,murungarus, mois,orengos...name them,their political run-ins with raila have had one constant. this foul spirit has apparently seized ruto( rated poorly in recent credible opinion polls) and who i have come to a conclusion is an astute raila's political student. fact is that there is no political symmetry between the two and politics being what it is,ruto may end up munching the humble pie and sticking by raila( ask orengo and late kipkalia kones) as a card carrying follower of raila(all through ford to odm) i must say times have changed and so the tact must change too. as a statesman,how he handles the ruto rebellion and mau issue is a snapshot into his presidency or premiership. will a raila presidency tolerate dissent? judging by the manner he has withstood the public ridicule and affront by ruto and his lap dogs and even still retain them in the cabinet, i can say he will. tomorrows odm's meeting will be ,in my view, one of those strenuous attempts by raila to promote intra-party democracy. my hunch however is that it will be one of those... the ruto axis have made up their mkind and as it has been observed here by jukwaa pundits, it will be one excuse after the other untill 2012. this reasoning is partly informed by a school of thought that traditionally the warlike community never abandons a struggle or war half-way.once they have unsheathed,their blood thirsty spirit takes over and there is no let-up until the enemy is vanquished( could this explain the recurrence of tribal clashes and now alleged arms race in rift valley?) barring ocampo's strike the well choreographed ruto nuisance( whether driven by communal spell or pnu cheparons) will continue headlining odm and kenyan politics either until next elections or when ruto bandwagon wobbles into the famous political junkyard. in the meantime, lets enjoy the show.
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Post by Dumekenya on Nov 25, 2009 14:52:36 GMT 3
Well said Nereah,
To add into your List, The Maithas and Mirugi Kariuki they also tried Raila but i like the resiliences of this man Raila. Ruto has never held any Job I even dont know his job title. I hope the electorate well understand this fact. At least Jirongo we know is an accountant by profession.
But I like how things are unfolding. Let all the thieves be grouped into one basket and we are left with the clean minds and hearts which can lead this country into its Light day. You know one thing i tend to believe that Kenya is reaching some level where the chaff are being separated from the real wheat. To me i dont see any reason to raise alarm for as i always say the hypocrites days in Kenya are numbered. ODM will remain put irrespective of all the hullabaloos going on. Ruto is only seeking self righteousness but he is doing it in a very wrong way i wish somebody out there would advice him.
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Post by mzee on Nov 25, 2009 15:21:50 GMT 3
Nereah, pablo and co, I think that it has been observed here on Jukwaa that William Ruto (WSR) is not seeking the high office of the president. He is actually fighting proxy war with Musalia Mudavadi (MM). This is his real target.
WSR has weighed his position in the political arena and found out that the only way to come near power of the president that he so badly seeks, he must be as near the front runner as possible. We all know that the front runner this time round is RAO. Of course Uhuru and Ka-Judas will be seeking to give him a run for his money. But given the history of the two RAO is way ahead. Remember recently when Ka-Judas brought up the issue of Ku Klux Klan, nobody wanted to hear him out. They just wanted him to shut the xxxx up. I think It downed on him that he has not been forgiven for blackmailing the country at the peak of PEV. The Butcher wa Kiambu Uhuru has a troubling PEV past. It really does not matter if he does not land in the Hague, the Naivasha killings are believed by all Kenyans to have been orchestrated by him. The above are seeking high office. How will they make it? WSR can make it if he is RAO´s running mate but before he can dream of that position, he must edge out MM and I don’t think that MM is budging any time soon.
WSR has figured out that if he shows that the has a massive following that RAO cannot do without RAO might just relent and somehow side step MM and promote him to the second position. He is already second but---he feels that he is the second number two. WSR must invent another mission. Hi haitafua dafu.
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Post by nereah on Nov 26, 2009 9:17:03 GMT 3
just as i had argued.todays meeting may just be one of those. Mr Sirma, a nominated MP, said the differences between the two had been discussed for a long time without reaching a solution. “Even if we talk about it, we will not come to an end,” he said. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/806010/-/wut3vxz/-/index.html also.... "Mr Sirma said there were clear differences among the members on the provisions in the draft constitution and stated there would be points of disagreement."i am also of the view that the parliamentary group meeting and the executive meeting should either put in abeyance the katiba draft until later date(read after the expiry of the 30 days) or discuss it but don't take a collective party position because,as sirma alludes in the quote above,the discord would sent wrong message to the odm constituency.
trust me, what the news hounds would be keen to maul from the odm meeting is the party's stand on the draft constitution. i thought it was wise of raila to declare that he would not state his stand on katiba and his handlers including denniss onyango should not allow the media to prodd him into speaking out.just a suggestion.
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Post by martoo on Nov 26, 2009 11:40:44 GMT 3
The Kikuyu hatred of Raila balanced by their distrust of ruto?
It is a fact however that Ruto is far less of a political Juggernaut than Agwambo. It might make strategic sense to team up with the weakest of the two to beat the strongest and then take on the weak one at leisure.
That is how a classic MT. Mafioso would read this situation
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Post by kaburwo on Nov 26, 2009 11:56:41 GMT 3
Martoo, You speak in parables. But you make sense all the same. Ruto, to ODM, is a brave warrior who stood up to Martha Karua and Mutula Kilonzo at Serena. He is a Njamba. To PNU, he is a tribal warlord who orchestrated and funded ethnic cleansing and the burning down of the house of God at Kimumu. He is a villain.
Ruto has a choice to make. And sometimes, when a hyena reaches a crossroads, while flying over muddy waters, the reflection of a baited bone looks like flesh. What choice is there for him?
In hunting, as in seducing a girl, the most effective method is to isolate and perturb. Someone is applying it, the target is swallowing it and nobody can stop a man who has set out to self-destruct.
-Kaburwo-
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Post by Dumekenya on Nov 26, 2009 12:40:07 GMT 3
Kajudas will ever be Kajudas, look at what he has done to his party members it the betrayal of the highest caliber and now they want to cheat us that they can merge and form a formidable alliance, then one question remains who will they allow among themselves to be the flag bearer well we can wait and see how they will juggle up their jagger nuts of politics. Just as mzee has mentioned above kufua dafu siyo kazi rahisi bali la hitaji ujuzi wa hali ya juu.
I now can understand why RAO is not even 0.01% bothered with the tantrums from the wabunge wa bonde la Ufa. WSR is really suffering, but he should be watchful he might be in a political limbo so soon.
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Post by phil on Nov 26, 2009 19:23:23 GMT 3
The ODM NEC/PG meeting was deferred to unspecified date due to what Janet Ongera described as respect for the Muslim IDD festivities (sic). However, the grapevine indicates some Rift Valley MPs asked some of their colleagues not to attend the meeting. Luckily, some ODM insiders got wind of this sabotage and quickly sent out text messages postponing the meeting. It appears there is now serious consideration of sponsoring a VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE against the PM in parliament by the same Rift Valley MPs who's confidence has been boosted by the numbers that attended the harambee for Mau IDPs last night. It is not clear if the MPs appreciate the political implications of such a move should it succeed, but they are looking at it from a wide perspective. First, they will have completely finished Raila politically. Secondly, they reckon that the death of NARA could also be the death of the WAKI, KRIEGLER and all other commissions that were brought forth by the Koffi Annan peace talks. This means, Ocampo intentions to prosecute four cabinet ministers from Rift Valley as a result of the Waki report will also suffer a huge bodyblow. My personal view is that ODM and more specifically RAO, has brought to themselves the quagmire they currently face. This problem started way back in 2008, when Rift Valley Mps started making unreasonable demands for cabinet positions until the facts were read out to them that they were actually holding the lion's share of ODM's 50%. There were also demands for youth from the province to be released unconditionally from police custody. Most of these were eventually released for lack of evidence. Then came the MAU restoration plans, which I aptly capture in this piece MAU FOREST COMPLEX: Raila Odinga's Real Acid Test . It is evident that there will be a poliltical price to pay. The solid RVP vote that was in the bank for ODM is now being split unnecessarily. My take has always been; political problems require political solutions. The problem is that RAO - for understandable reasons - has treated his detractors within ODM in very diplomatic manner. Rift Valley was a tiny political problem within ODM during the first days, but it was left to snow ball and metamorphose into the mongrel that it is now - where the party cannot even conduct a NEC/PG meeting. Of course, the press has been fuelling this fire. It is unfortunate ODM's think tanks were disbanded soon after the party joined government. it is unfortunate that the party fears or has openly avoided holding a national delegates congress to politically tame some of these ODM members. In this era of political party's act, very few courts can challenge the decisions reached a party NDCs. In retrospect, I think it was a mistake to create two deputy leader posts so as to accommodate one William Ruto. I do not understand what criteria was used to give him this post ahead of other older pentagon members (in this I mean former LDP members like Nyagah, Balala? It was a misguided page borrowed from KANU during the Mboya days, and the NDP merger days - both of which failed miserably. Expereince shows such a solution only provides temporary relief and the cardinal rule for any political party should be that any member interested in any post should compete for it in a free a fair election. Pure and simple! The party's PENTAGON only exists by name. But that is no excuse for the members or the leadership, life must go on. Interestingly, if one talks to most ODM supporters, the general assumption is that the Ruto problem shall be resolved once Ocampo is done with his work! It is as if the party has resigned to fate. There is absolutely no effort to build the party, no membership drives, no consultations through NEC and PG meetings except when there is a crisis! And I thought Professor Peter Anyang Nyongo - ODM's Secretary General - was a professor of political science!!!!!! The best thing for ODM is to clean its house. In other words, delegates are the party's representatives in the grassroots. If they reject certain leadership, then no one can challenge their democratic decisions. Let the members participate in cleaning their own house. The next thing you will see in ODM will either be mass defections or an internal coup against the leadership of one RAO/WMM. The writing is on the wall.
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Post by job on Nov 26, 2009 21:09:49 GMT 3
Phil,
No call for alarm.
There is no turning back on the Mau conservation process and if you think the PanAfric fundraiser was a real turning point politically, then wait for Phase II evictions which will start exposing these executive settlers. Rift Valley is still probably unsure where this thing will finally end, but they are concurrently watching the Land debate and constitution debate very carefully.
The peasants are sure of one thing though - someone is playing cheap politics with them - they are yet to determine who that is, whether it is Raila, or the Ruto/Uhuru/Kalonzo axis.
When the fat lady sings, several current Rift Valley leaders (sitting MPs) may face a backlash from their own electorate - someone like Isaac Ruto illegally settled squatters (the UN appropriately refers to them as human shileds) from Chepalungu in Mau forest as a political base for future elections.
Isaac consistently relies on this base for personal political gain, but the truth of the matter - it is at the sole expense of Kenyan taxpayers. He wants to force us to compensate them with free land.
It is said many of them actually paid some modest money to Isaac, but no title deeds were issued, and Isaac has vociferously tried to blackmail the PM & government to issue them title deeds so that his nightmare finally ends, and he can continue reaping political benefits till Kingdom come.
In fact, seeing space, Isaac's political rival armtwisted Kibaki into issuing some title deeds during Kibaki's relection campaign. But majority of these folks imported into the forest by Isaac had no title deeds and were amongst the first to be evicted, as per evidence from the Mau Task Force.
The Mau Task Force is doing a lot of documentation and unravelling these stories one by one. When the crap hits the fan, it will be people like Isaac Ruto running away from these very peasants.
Now, if you think the squatters are singularly mad at Raila, you may not get the full picture. That is just one narrative which the PanAfric crew was trying to drive home. But at the ground, they're pretty mad at everyone including their own MPs.
Watch if it is only the anti-Raila narrative that will be sinking at the end of phase II evictions and when Orengo starts unveiling land for alternate resettlement of GENUINE evictees with titles.
My own diagnosis is that South Rift peasants are unfortunate to be represented by terrible leadership who care less about their real concern - which is land. Many are just beginning to realize this.
The land issue predates independence.
Ever since the British kicked the Kipsigis out of their prime land in Kericho (now under Tea), then the Kenyatta & Moi regimes grabbed remaining fertile land, they were pushed peripherally into areas where they encountered numerous conflicts with neighbouring Maasai (TransMara & Narok), Kisii (Sotik) area, Kikuyu (Molo, Rongai, Kuresoi, Njoro) and Luo (Belgut/ Ternan) areas.
Many had little option but to encroach into forests originally inhabited by Ogieks.
When Kenyatta tried to evict them in 1978 when the first alarm bell over the diminishing water tower was sounded, it became problematic. Moi turned a blind eye because he himself was a forest encroacher of Mau, but he went ahead to kick out other forest squatters in Mt. Kenya, Aberdare, Enosupukia and elsewhere VERY RUTHLESSLY and there was no hullabaloo about HUMANITARIAN CRISES.
Moi was focused in his salivation at fertile lands in Kipsigis territory which have made him a big-time tea exporter. Moi himself and local Kipsigis elite saw no problem encroaching into Mau forest themselves. He degazetted hundreds of thousands of acres for crony allocations and with that came the lush Kiptagich Tea Estate and factory he owns.
Now all this Mau fiasco is mainly a creation by wakina Moi and his Nyayo team of the Isaac & William Rutos, Abraham Kiptanuis, Franklin Betts and such. They owned this illegal baby, now they want to blame those correcting the problem.
None of these barons seem to be telling the Kipsigis what is required - addressing the land problem through land reforms once and for all. Why? Because the same barons are the biggest beneficiaries of land grabbing that has denied ordinary Kipsigis peasants land in the first place.
This is the puzzle I suspect RAO will unravel and then real political realignments will begin - watch this space.
RAO himself has said he is willing to pay the political price for the sake of conserving Kenya's water towers. He seems to be aware of the dangers and high stakes involved, and the magnitude of the Moi machinery still in place.
I still think the fat lady has not sung yet. This is not a done-deal.
When the Land Draft Policy is open for parliamentary debate, the same anti-Mau group in Rift Valley will come out in full force opposed to pro-peasant land reforms.
Expect the grassroots to start unearthing the game here. Those peasants will understand why Ruto is suddenly swinging closer to the Kenyattas and other land grabbers.
They will slowly understand there is no hope to address their plight in that direction.
Internal ODM dynamics are dictated by many factors including Ocampo's expected bombshell.
Am I the only one seeing Raila slowly ridding himself of KANU neoconservatives and the burden of having to tag along with anti-reformists with a penchant for blackmail.
As Edward Clay once told Murungaru - your associations with characters of questionable affliations and deeds can land you in trouble.
Raila is slowly ridding himself well known political liabilities, whether in the form of corrupt barons, known war mongers, anti-reformists and known con artists.
It is a welcome blessing in disguise to clean ODM once and for all. The party should technically - without stupid suspensions and such - rid itself of anti-reformists, reactionaries, pretenders, and people whom Ocampo may be soon interested in having a chat with.
The pentagon can be reconstituted with fresh clean faces if need be.
There are reports Omingo Magara cleaned out the Treasury kitty during campaigns, hence his relegation (at the expense of Bobasi's Chris Obure) during RAO's initial cabinet appointments.
Every Tom, Dick & Harry knows by now that William Ruto is an eloquent and fine mobilizer BUT with many unanswered questions concerning integrity and propensity towards dangerous incitement. Time will prove him either clean or guilty.
Balala (he of the Lesotho solution) is already in bad books according to many in the diplomatic community. I saw him with my own eyes on CNN TV here in the States, engaged in street running battles with the police, even captured paying off some boys.
Such antics and that publicly made 'Lesotho solution' statement alone will politically haunt him for a long time - you can't pretend to be a viable national leader while at the same time preaching disunity and advocating physical isolation of one province of the country. The you come back expecting Raila to defend your own dangerous thoughts.
As for a vote of no confidence in the PM in parliament, initially alluded to by Isaac Ruto, let them bring it on and kill NARA, and have RAO in the opposition if in their wisdom, they have calculated it will bring better peace and stability in Kenya and improve its international standing. If that's the method for 'solving' the Mau problem, then let's wait and see.
I think ODM and Kenya will be in better shape if relics of the Nyayo era like Isaac Ruto are politically put where they belong.
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Post by mzee on Nov 26, 2009 21:33:33 GMT 3
Job, You nail the truth like no other. Thanks
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Post by politicalmaniac on Nov 26, 2009 22:25:25 GMT 3
I am not worried about this MAU saga and Rs political fortune. Imagine, if we, wana jukwaa, can play pundit here, when we have only a few facts hence tunnel vision, and see "risks and pitfalls", then R must be seeing the whole picture from the inside. He knows exactly what is going on. when he was outside the Govt looking in, his intelligence was first class. It must be better than first class now. He has taken whatever position he has after calculating the risks, and the benefits, not only for him but for the people he made campaign promises to.
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Post by phil on Nov 27, 2009 12:27:47 GMT 3
Job,
You agree with me that the ODM secretariat is ALSLEEP.
Most of the party affairs are done either at the OPM or his residence. One wonders how the party is supposed to compete for taking over the leadership of this country if ever since the elections, nothing has moved in terms of building the party.
Instead, people like Ongera are busy giving moral support to parties from their own ethnic regions at the expense of ODM. Nyongo himself is not showing any initiative as head of the secretariat. It is apparent everything has been left in the hands of one RAO.
We need to see more positive action at the party's secretariat. For instance, the recent harmonised draft has seen ODM's main rival PNU adopt a position and engage a group of professionals to analyse the document on behalf of the party. ODM is waiting for RAO to state a position. The ODM secretariat has not even bothered to get copies of the draft distributed to its members for feedback from the grassroots. Surely, this is a document that will soon see us go to the referendum yet the secretariat appears so indifferent!!
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Post by nereah on Nov 28, 2009 10:06:45 GMT 3
just heard from newscaster susan kimachia of kiss fm that jirongo is hosting uhuru,ruto and over 30 mps from pnu,odm in lugari for fundraiser for post-election violence idps.
someone had suggested at the panafric mchango for mau evictees,i think mp kuti, that the uhuru-kalonzo-ruto(kkk) should be holding such gathering every sato--- across kenya.
meanwhile according to the star's youthful reporter,isaac ongiri, pm almost caved in on the mau pressure on thursday.
ongiri pens the headline story that alleged agwambo told four ministers that he was considering abandoning the campaign only to upp the status quo ante at a rally in kisii.
kweli siasa ni moto moto.
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Post by biwott on Nov 28, 2009 23:52:53 GMT 3
Everyone agrees that Mau should be conserved, however Raila bulldozed his way through and created a political crisis that threatens to tear the country apart once again. Whats wrong with re-settling and compensating a few hundred evacuees? Anyway lets wait and see what is going to happen th next few days I heard PNU are teaming up with ODM renegades to finish him up once and for all.
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Post by mzee on Nov 29, 2009 0:29:40 GMT 3
Everyone agrees that Mau should be conserved, however Raila bulldozed his way through and created a political crisis that threatens to tear the country apart once again. Whats wrong with re-settling and compensating a few hundred evacuees? Anyway lets wait and see what is going to happen th next few days I heard PNU are teaming up with ODM renegades to finish him up once and for all. I think that people have been trying to finish Raila since 2003 and it has not worked, Infact journalists such Mutahi Ngunyi have made a carrier trying to predict how Raila will soon be finished because of this and that. So whats new? If you give me a clear formula on who will step down in favour of the other in a Uhuru/Kalonzo/Ruto alliance then we might begin talking. Then you go on and tell me how the kikuyus will be convinced to vote for Ruto or Kalles for Uhuru. Can you explain how thats going to work out?
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Post by biwott on Nov 29, 2009 4:03:27 GMT 3
Mzee,
Just because Raila knows the KKK alliance will not work does not justify throwing women and children out in the cold. The mau issue has become a human rights issue. Everyone agrees that we should conserve the forest, and this should have been done as humanely as possible.
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Post by mzee on Nov 29, 2009 11:24:19 GMT 3
Biwott, I agree people must be treated humanely.
But why do you place the burden or RAO´s shoulders? After all the following ministries are all involved:
1. Special Pro grammes 2 Wildlife 3 Environment 4 Finance
All the above are not ministries in the ODM side of the coalition. RAO is the co-coordinator but he can do little if Naomi Shaaban is not doing her thing right. She is responsible for the resettlement but she ain't doing that. Why?
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Post by mzee on Nov 29, 2009 11:30:22 GMT 3
And what up with this demonstration
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