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Post by roughrider on Oct 3, 2011 8:38:52 GMT 3
Not quite - ODM called for peaceful mass action. Please do your research. ODM called for peace. ODM called for justice. It is very easy for facts to get lost.
Having said that peace itself is a multifaceted word and needs to be defined within a context. Not as flippantly as you seem to think of it. Why would I need to research something I recall? They were also crying " No Raila No Peace". Research if only to make a distinction between what hordes may have been shouting in the streets and party policy that was communicated officially. Incidentally, had PNU not blocked the legal means of protest by unconstitutionally deploying armed police to Uhuru park and violently breaking up protests, ODM might have channelled the protests in the manner that they called for. Therein lies a lesson for the future.
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Post by roughrider on Oct 3, 2011 8:49:16 GMT 3
Please don't eat me alive Ms Fahari. I don't have time to check out your videos right now. I am only stating things as i know and saw them. You can hold your views, however different. FYI - it is mass action that brought democracy to Kenya, it is impunity that caused PEV. As we prepare to bury the heroine Wangari Maathai, let us recall her efforts, usually with mass protest, to bring this country to the next level. Mr RR, You may have your opinion but some facts run contrary to that particular opinion as shown on those videos. I don’t have an issue with mass protest similar to what we experienced in the 90s. The Wangari Maathai type mass protest took us to a higher level of discussion about real issues affecting society, the PEV type riots, destroyed society and that, I have a problem with. I have an issue with “pseudo mass action” where the political elite indulge in war games, where “mass protest” takes a violent or ethnic dimension. I take issue with the political elite using the masses as cannon fodder in their dirty political wars. I have a problem with the lumpenproletariat allowing them selves to be used as pawns in a political game they neither conceived nor comprehended and whose ends they did not know. What I am calling for honest debate on the issue. Do you have the courage to take a cold hard look at what really transpired in the PEV and be honest about it? PS I' d had breakfast already .........so I was really nice I'm not sure I fully get you. Are you saying that ODM's call for peaceful mass protest was somehow unjustified? In the context of the stolen election and absurd swearing in, and the show of force at that time, I will respectfully point out the desire and urge for protest was not necessarily incited. Millions of Kenyans (so called lumpen proletariat) were justifiably outraged. But here is what happened: two forces took over a democratic expression of outrage and turned it violent. Elements particularly in the Rift Valley who had long term grouses against the Kikuyu a settlers and the police/mungiki collabo who meted out extraordinary violence and genocide in retaliation. Of course the government blockade on media and assembly added fuel to fire.
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Post by job on Oct 3, 2011 8:59:49 GMT 3
Mass action is there to stay...freedoms of assembly and association are inalienable rights guaranteed world over. After witnessing the Arab Spring Uprisings sweep through North Africa and the Middle East, chances are that Mass Action is here to stay.
The UN Secretary General only recently created a special position under his office for UN Rapporteur for Freedom of Assembly and Freedom of Association...and guess who is currently holding that office...none other that Kenya's defender of mass action, Maina Kiai.
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Post by roughrider on Oct 3, 2011 9:01:31 GMT 3
Nothing was stolen from Mr. Ogora. They just shot him and went away. Yet police described his assassination as ‘normal’. This is ridiculous. Now, in light of Lewis Nguyai’s confessions that he is a Mungiki fixer, financier, conduit and courier we have to revisit this murder with renewed interest. Police were disinterested. They did not bother to perform ballistic examination to see where the bullets from the pistol and AK 47 came from (typically AK 47 would signify an inside job) The important question is: just what did Ogora see and hear that led to his death? The Public Prosecutor, Mr. Keriako Tobiko must order an immediate and independent investigation into this killing and possibly establish an inquest with speed. www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000044004&cid=4&
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Post by b6k on Oct 3, 2011 9:07:03 GMT 3
911, let me say for the umpteenth time I am not from MK. That is not to say I cannot see spin when it is spun.
Allow me to take my ODM as a fascist party akin to Hamas further. You have a fanatical support base, that pays protection money to the party (going by Jakaswanga's Kisumu business community post), & everyone kowtows to the Dear Leader.
Indeed unlike the LDP, NDP, & whatever other 3 letter acronym empty vessel of a party came before it, ODM will not be abandoned by RAO & his kitchen cabinet because they know the value of the brand. They are bonded by blood; blood needlessly spilt in the killing fields of RVP & beyond during the PEV.
Where the rational reaction is for one to distance themselves from such bloodletting, as UK is doing in the Hague, the fascist reaction is to glorify it & wear it proudly as a badge of honour. There is nothing democratic about the "D" in ODM. Dictatorial may be more appropriate.
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Post by destiny on Oct 3, 2011 9:10:07 GMT 3
Our Juha Kalulu cops call this heinous crime a "normal murder!" yet we all know this driver must have been set up and executed by the same killer squad that killed Oscar King'ara and Paul Oulu both of Oscar Foundation. The same squad killed Mungiki spokesman Gitau Njuguna Gitau in broad daylight along Luthuli Avenue. No one has been caught or even questioned on these well connected and well planned political killings. What's normal about that? Bure Kabisa hawa polisi! No wonder they have now turned their guns against each other. There's no honour among thieves!
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Post by adongo23456 on Oct 3, 2011 17:01:55 GMT 3
It is amazing how people can be in denial even about the most basic things and then back to ODM mass action as the mother of all evils. What exactly does ODM mass action have to do with Nguyai and his dead driver?
This fool was all over the ICC telling the whole world how he deals with Mungiki almost on daily basis. He meets them at Njenga Karume's hotel all the time. In fact Nguyai told ther court he has been dealing with Mungiki even before he became an M.P. He tried to dance around by sometimes claiming he was meeting them as a member of some committee but as confused as he was the prosecutior got him to yap about his dealings with them before he became an M.P.
Then now we learn of another obscure story that his driver was shot dead sometimes back in the Mungiki infested neighbourhood and predictably the police never got the killer or killers. Even to a casual observer this looks very suspicious. There is no need for people to pontificate in ready defense of Nguyai without even asking the most basic questions. Given this guys confessed liason with Mungiki is it possible some Mungiki elements with a beef with his boss killed his driver as a message to him? That is just a nomarl question to ask. No need for anyone to faint because such a question is asked. Is it possible that Mr. Ogolla knew a lot of the dealings between Nguyai and the mungiki thugs given that Nguyai himself talked of many "meetings" with Mungiki through his car window? Is it possible that Ogolla could have been eliminated by people working for Nguyai's benefit? Again that is a very normal question to ask given the circumstances.
It is also very possible that the driver was a victim of "normal" crime as the police is suggesting even though the police story would be more credible if they actually arrested the killers. How do they know the nature of the killing when they never arrested anybody.
I find it curious that just raising those normal questions regarding this crime sends some people ballistics and then they jump into ODM and ODM that. Don't people ever get tired with the same old crap. That whole murder looks pretty suspicious to me knowing what we now know about Mr. Nguyai and even the Kenyan media seem to have picked that up.
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Post by phil on Oct 3, 2011 17:26:36 GMT 3
@adongo
Agreed. Some opinions in this thread are utterly absurd. Very shallow and totally unrelated to the matter at hand. It's being made to look as if questioning Mr. Ogolla's death is simply not acceptable, now that his boss just sung like a bird at the Hague.
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Post by b6k on Oct 3, 2011 17:44:44 GMT 3
Adongo, it is inconceivable but not impossible...
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Post by reporter911 on Oct 3, 2011 18:20:14 GMT 3
911, let me say for the umpteenth time I am not from MK. That is not to say I cannot see spin when it is spun. Allow me to take my ODM as a fascist party akin to Hamas further. You have a fanatical support base, that pays protection money to the party (going by Jakaswanga's Kisumu business community post), & everyone kowtows to the Dear Leader. Indeed unlike the LDP, NDP, & whatever other 3 letter acronym empty vessel of a party came before it, ODM will not be abandoned by RAO & his kitchen cabinet because they know the value of the brand. They are bonded by blood; blood needlessly spilt in the killing fields of RVP & beyond during the PEV. Where the rational reaction is for one to distance themselves from such bloodletting, as UK is doing in the Hague, the fascist reaction is to glorify it & wear it proudly as a badge of honour. There is nothing democratic about the "D" in ODM. Dictatorial may be more appropriate. When it comes to parties, the only party that has fanatic followers that go out killing innocent Kenyans is PNU & KANU.. Mungiki 's gangs are embedded in the PNU & KANU parties, acting as their foot Soldiers.. that is what you call Fanatic's followers, to match your example of Hamas!
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Post by danielwaweru on Oct 3, 2011 20:31:00 GMT 3
It is amazing how people can be in denial even about the most basic things and then back to ODM mass action as the mother of all evils. What exactly does ODM mass action have to do with Nguyai and his dead driver? Quite a lot. ODM was built on hatred; in particular, it was built on hatred of Gikuyu. (The evidence at this point is extensive enough to leave implicit.) Systematic violence in the Rift Valley and elsewhere was carried out to further its political goals. (Consider, for example, para. 41 of the ICC chamber's decision in the matter of the Prosecutor's request for summons of Messrs. Ruto, Kosgey and Sang) Political agents of this kind have a particular configuration: they need to excite hatred by spreading stories of past, present and prospective wrongdoing by the target groups. As the research shows, the hate-creating stories do not need to be true to be effective; what matters is that they are difficult to check for truth. Where the party's targeted group lives together with its ingroup, the cost of checking a given hate-story drops. (See The Political Economy of Hatred.) Remember that the effectiveness of the hate stories is maintained if they're difficult to check. The party therefore needs a way to maintain the difficulty of checking the narrative---that is, the collection of hate stories. In an environment where the ingroups and outgroups live together, the obvious solution is to create as many individual stories as possible: in an environment where there is a flood of hate-stories, the narrative will survive the disproof of any single one. This explains the obsessive, repetitive and fantastical quality of ODM propaganda. In particular, it explains why an under-investigated and poorly-understood incident, such as the murder of Nguyai's driver, is immediately taken up by a wide variety of party members as grist for the propaganda mill. The connection with mass action should be obvious: the mobilisation for violence was achieved with stories of precisely this kind.
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Post by adongo23456 on Oct 3, 2011 21:31:56 GMT 3
It is amazing how people can be in denial even about the most basic things and then back to ODM mass action as the mother of all evils. What exactly does ODM mass action have to do with Nguyai and his dead driver? Quite a lot. ODM was built on hatred; in particular, it was built on hatred of Gikuyu. (The evidence at this point is extensive enough to leave implicit.) Systematic violence in the Rift Valley and elsewhere was carried out to further its political goals. (Consider, for example, para. 41 of the ICC chamber's decision in the matter of the Prosecutor's request for summons of Messrs. Ruto, Kosgey and Sang) Political agents of this kind have a particular configuration: they need to excite hatred by spreading stories of past, present and prospective wrongdoing by the target groups. As the research shows, the hate-creating stories do not need to be true to be effective; what matters is that they are difficult to check for truth. Where the party's targeted group lives together with its ingroup, the cost of checking a given hate-story drops. (See The Political Economy of Hatred.) Remember that the effectiveness of the hate stories is maintained if they're difficult to check. The party therefore needs a way to maintain the difficulty of checking the narrative---that is, the collection of hate stories. In an environment where the ingroups and outgroups live together, the obvious solution is to create as many individual stories as possible: in an environment where there is a flood of hate-stories, the narrative will survive the disproof of any single one. This explains the obsessive, repetitive and fantastical quality of ODM propaganda. In particular, it explains why an under-investigated and poorly-understood incident, such as the murder of Nguyai's driver, is immediately taken up by a wide variety of party members as grist for the propaganda mill. The connection with mass action should be obvious: the mobilisation for violence was achieved with stories of precisely this kind. Mr. Ogolla was indeed a driver for Mr. Nguyai. Mr. Ogolla was actually shot dead by people who have not been arrested. Mr. Nguyai just awed the world with his dealings with Mungiki which started before he became a member of parliament. This is not an ODM story. This is the real story of a real person who was shot and killed. This is not something made up by ODM. What is wrong with people asking if it is possible that Mr. Ogolla was killed by Mungiki or if he was set up by his boss Mr. Nguyai who claimed he often "met" with Mungiki through his car window? Are Kenyans banned from asking any such questions because of some people's paranoia about ODM? We just heard in the ICC proccedings of a mungiki member and leader Mr. Gitau whom the prosecution alleges was eliminated to prevent him from providing evidence against suspects? Why was there no outrage that such a story would trigger violence? I think Kenyans are dealing with issues of tensions and ethnic hostilities that can have terrible consequences but one thing that will not help is having these ethnic police who want to direct our discourse and discussions as a nation of many communities to their comfort zone and standard stereotypes. Using obsession some people have with ODM as a weapon to silence people from asking questions is wrong and counter productive.
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Post by b6k on Oct 3, 2011 22:42:10 GMT 3
Adongo, if you asked questions across the board with equal fervour there would be no problem. It's the sheer vacuum of questions on anything that negatively impacts ODM that gets me posting on Liz Ongoro, MM & any other stories of interest you'd rather sweep under the rug, for the sake of the party. Before you dismiss the Ongoro story as a mere domestic issue, don't forget, impunity starts at home.
Indeed if you lot were balanced in your freedom to ask questions, a lot more should have been heard about the death of a maid in RAO's Karen mansion on the anniversary of the 1982 coup no less. If that had happened in UK's Dennis Pritt digs & he had a link to the coup, I bet you'd have all sorts of theories about sacrifices to some obscure Mt. Kenya god doing rounds on Jukwaa.
911. Do the math. Count the dead in ODM zones & compare & contrast with the dead PNU Zones. There was a pretty good map showing how the country was divided into green & orange zones based on the '07 election. ODM is a fascist party. No two ways about it.
By the way, was Nguyai's driver called Ogolla or Ogora?
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Post by danielwaweru on Oct 3, 2011 22:51:34 GMT 3
Mr. Ogolla was indeed a driver for Mr. Nguyai. Mr. Ogolla was actually shot dead by people who have not been arrested. Mr. Nguyai just awed the world with his dealings with Mungiki which started before he became a member of parliament. This is not an ODM story. This is the real story of a real person who was shot and killed. This is not something made up by ODM. I have not disputed the facts as reported. Rather, I have disputed the use to which those facts have been put, since that use is consistent with the propaganda of hatred, on which propaganda your party based its electoral strategy. (The double standard, incidentally, could hardly be more obvious: as tactician pointed out, no one is suggesting that the death of the Prime Minister's maid was a murder motivated by the need to conceal his doings before, during and after the elections.) What is wrong with people asking if it is possible that Mr. Ogolla was killed by Mungiki or if he was set up by his boss Mr. Nguyai who claimed he often "met" with Mungiki through his car window? Are Kenyans banned from asking any such questions because of some people's paranoia about ODM? This is not an accurate description of what has been said. For example: Job asserts that Nguyai is a member of Mungiki, and that the killing must have been done to keep the driver quiet: It's the end of the road - these Mungiki thugs in suits, straddling top government, shall deceive Kenyans no more Gachquota claims that Mungiki did it: This is mungiki group killed this guy I hope Okampo gets diz clip 4 trials koz am sure we going 4 trials. Politicalmaniac, following the example of those who preceded him, also claims that Mungiki did it, and that the killing was done to silence him: Now they killed this driver to 'tie up a loose end', just like they killed the snr policeman in his house on the NBI outskirts a few months ago. Reporter911 embellishes the story further: he claims that the murdered driver was at State House, and was murdered along with others also there: acts are before Uhuru Kenyatta was charged Evidence was being collected by the Ocampo team before charging for crimes against humanity!! and that is why Nguyai was brought by Uhuru Kenyatta as a witness because the prosecution has witnesses that Link Nguyai to the Mungiki gang! lets not try to sweep the facts under the carpet..was Uhuru Kenyatta charged before the evidence against him was collected? HELL NO!!how about if Ogolla was alive today just maybe he would have been one of the prosecutors witnesses eh? just like Uhuru Kenyatta brought Nguyai as his witness!!i wonder why some people here are fighting tooth and nail to delink Ogalla's death from the on going investigations? maybe they know something Kenyans are not away of ala!! Uhuru kenyatta was charged in December after evidence was collected against him!! Ogalla including many Mungiki gang members said to have attended some of the State house meetings e.t.c and known to have organised and taken part in the murders & slaughters of innocent Kenyans during the 2007-8 were gunned down in the same fashion.. after it was announced that the case was being taken up at the HAGUE.. That is to say: your description of events on this thread is utterly misleading. Far from Kenyans asking questions about the murder, we have ODM partisans asserting that Mr. Ogolla was murdered at the behest of senior government figures (Job leaves it unspecific, reporter911 plumps for Uhuru Kenyatta.) We just heard in the ICC proccedings of a mungiki member and leader Mr. Gitau whom the prosecution alleges was eliminated to prevent him from providing evidence against suspects? Why was there no outrage that such a story would trigger violence? Because it has (not yet) been taken up by the ODM propaganda effort. Doubtless the outrage about its use in propaganda will follow when it is. I think Kenyans are dealing with issues of tensions and ethnic hostilities that can have terrible consequences but one thing that will not help is having these ethnic police who want to direct our discourse and discussions as a nation of many communities to their comfort zone and standard stereotypes. Using obsession some people have with ODM as a weapon to silence people from asking questions is wrong and counter productive. With respect, this is nonsense. This is only the most recent example of a pattern of conduct in which your party has been engaged since 2005, and which has already culminated in mass murder. Dealing with ethnic hostility requires identification of its causes. As I have shown, repeatedly, the main cause of ethnic hatred was ODM's electoral strategy in the period leading up to the 2007-8 election. (The evidence is extensive enough not to require rehashing, but for just two of many pieces of evidence, I'll point you to page 72 of Wars Guns and Votes, and also to page 70 of the same book.) Those interested in ethnic hostility have, therefore, good reason to examine ODM's conduct very closely. You claim that an examination of ODM's conduct in the context of ethnic hostility is unmotivated. Given the wealth of independent and extensive evidence of ODM's conduct, and its direct contribution to ethnic hatred, that claim is false.
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Post by reporter911 on Oct 3, 2011 23:00:49 GMT 3
Mr. Ogolla was indeed a driver for Mr. Nguyai. Mr. Ogolla was actually shot dead by people who have not been arrested. Mr. Nguyai just awed the world with his dealings with Mungiki which started before he became a member of parliament. This is not an ODM story. This is the real story of a real person who was shot and killed. This is not something made up by ODM. I have not disputed the facts as reported. Rather, I have disputed the use to which those facts have been put, since that use is consistent with the propaganda of hatred, on which propaganda your party based its electoral strategy. (The double standard, incidentally, could hardly be more obvious: as tactician pointed out, no one is suggesting that the death of the Prime Minister's maid was a murder motivated by the need to conceal his doings before, during and after the elections.) This is not an accurate description of what has been said. For example: Job asserts that Nguyai is a member of Mungiki, and that the killing must have been done to keep the driver quiet: Gachquota claims that Mungiki did it: Politicalmaniac, following the example of those who preceded him, also claims that Mungiki did it, and that the killing was done to silence him: Reporter911 embellishes the story further: he claims that the murdered driver was at State House, and was murdered along with others also there: That is to say: your description of events on this thread is utterly misleading. Far from Kenyans asking questions about the murder, we have ODM partisans asserting that Mr. Ogolla was murdered at the behest of senior government figures (Job leaves it unspecific, reporter911 plumps for Uhuru Kenyatta.) Because it has (not yet) been taken up by the ODM propaganda effort. Doubtless the outrage about its use in propaganda will follow when it is. I think Kenyans are dealing with issues of tensions and ethnic hostilities that can have terrible consequences but one thing that will not help is having these ethnic police who want to direct our discourse and discussions as a nation of many communities to their comfort zone and standard stereotypes. Using obsession some people have with ODM as a weapon to silence people from asking questions is wrong and counter productive. With respect, this is nonsense. This is only the most recent example of a pattern of conduct in which your party has been engaged since 2005, and which has already culminated in mass murder. Dealing with ethnic hostility requires identification of its causes. As I have shown, repeatedly, the main cause of ethnic hatred was ODM's electoral strategy in the period leading up to the 2007-8 election. (The evidence is extensive enough not to require rehashing, but for just two of many pieces of evidence, I'll point you to page 72 of Wars Guns and Votes, and also to page 70 of the same book.) Those interested in ethnic hostility have, therefore, good reason to examine ODM's conduct very closely. You claim that an examination of ODM's conduct in the context of ethnic hostility is unmotivated. Given the wealth of independent and extensive evidence of ODM's conduct, and its direct contribution to ethnic hatred, that claim is false. Your arguements are baseless, even in reference to the PM's maid.. ;D try harder! and as of ODM as a party, go read the news in the archives starting from before the 2002 elections Uhuru vs Kibaki and the Mungiki connection then maybe you can come back here and post relevant arguments using the tribal & party lines you so seem to try to connect it with e.t.c and why the mungiki connection is so key to what happened leading to 2007-2008... I bet all that information in the archives is already in many articles by some Kenyans actually written by Gikuyu's from central province, most of you are in denial and that won't serve any purpose trying to use the ethnic or party line.. waste of time ;D
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Post by adongo23456 on Oct 3, 2011 23:15:04 GMT 3
Adongo, if you asked questions across the board with equal fervour there would be no problem. It's the sheer vacuum of questions on anything that negatively impacts ODM that gets me posting on Liz Ongoro, MM & any other stories of interest you'd rather sweep under the rug, for the sake of the party. Before you dismiss the Ongoro story as a mere domestic issue, don't forget, impunity starts at home. Indeed if you lot were balanced in your freedom to ask questions, a lot more should have been heard about the death of a maid in RAO's Karen mansion on the anniversary of the 1982 coup no less. If that had happened in UK's Dennis Pritt digs & he had a link to the coup, I bet you'd have all sorts of theories about sacrifices to some obscure Mt. Kenya god doing rounds on Jukwaa. 911. Do the math. Count the dead in ODM zones & compare & contrast with the dead PNU Zones. There was a pretty good map showing how the country was divided into green & orange zones based on the '07 election. ODM is a fascist party. No two ways about it. By the way, was Nguyai's driver called Ogolla or Ogora? 6bk, I am not a member of ODM and never has been. I have been sympathetic to ODM agenda right from the katiba battles even before ODM was formed when KANU joined hands to fight for a new katiba at the Bomas conference which I attended for a while. I have said here many times that to me the historic goal for ODM was to help facilitate the new constitution and I am on record saying I would care less what happens to them after that. I think we are almost there. Given the alternatives we have had in the country choosing to support ODM has been a very easy choice to make for me. There was just nothing else. I am not so sure the situation has changed that much but I could be wrong. I don't think Raila's maid dying at the eve of the so called coup anniversary is something that raises any questions. Seriously. I mean it has been over thirty years, what exactly was the poor woman going to do which she didn't do? How is that even remotely similar to a driver of a confessed Mungiki ally being shot in a mungiki infested area even as matters of Mungiki's involvement in the PEV was being sorted out? Those two stories are completely different. What I didn't like about the PM maid's death was that she was living in pretty bad conditions and had to use makaaa to heat her room? That is crazy. Don't they have at least minimum standards for such workers. That was just shameful. Then I got pissed to hear Ida saying she was like a family member. No she is not a family member. She is a worker and should have all the rights of other workers. Then Ida said she finished work at 9.00 p.m. I asked myself when did she start working? At 7.00 a.m. How many hours does she work? That is what Kenyans do with their maids. They treat them like "family members" which is a code word for exploitation. Keep your family and treat me like a worker with rights and benefits. That is all. Obviously I am way out of topic here but I am tellig the way I see things. I was horrified to see people venting vitriol on ODM and going back to their mass action obsssessions just because some people had suggested, some rather strongly that Ogolla's death could be Mungiki related and that the Mungiki choirmaster Mr. Nguyai should be investigated a little more than just him giving press statements. To the best of my knowledge the man's name is Mr. Ogolla I think the Ogora nick name came from Nguyai himself due to his own challenges in pronouncing names like that.
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Post by b6k on Oct 3, 2011 23:28:01 GMT 3
Adongo, check the Standard they say Ogora. Nguyai isn't L-R challenged judging from his oral testimony.
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Post by mastersugu on Oct 4, 2011 4:17:18 GMT 3
Bro Adongo, it is Ogora and not Ogolla for that matter. That's how they write and pronounce it across the highlands!
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
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Post by Mukwhasi on Oct 4, 2011 5:53:29 GMT 3
It is so easy to get away with murder in Kenya today ,because all suspects simply say "people are killed all the time" which is very true ,be it by police or by gangsters it doesnt matter because theres no diffrence between these two groups,they are one and the same like head and tail of a coin.
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Post by mank on Oct 4, 2011 6:27:20 GMT 3
Why would I need to research something I recall? They were also crying " No Raila No Peace". Research if only to make a distinction between what hordes may have been shouting in the streets and party policy that was communicated officially. Incidentally, had PNU not blocked the legal means of protest by unconstitutionally deploying armed police to Uhuru park and violently breaking up protests, ODM might have channelled the protests in the manner that they called for.
Therein lies a lesson for the future.I am not sure there was a distinction between what hordes were shouting on the streets and party policy. Were Mudavadi and Raila "hordes ... on the streets", or were they articulating party policy in their utterances during the post-election period? Like I have said on this platform before, I first became aware of impending post election chaos when Musalia Mudavadi declared Raila the duly elected president before vote-tallying was over, and went ahead to declare to the public that Kenyans would not accept a different outcome. Then at the height of the violence we heard Raila asking his supporters not to hurt Kisiis ati because Kisii's had voted for him ... you and I know what "hurting" meant at the time, and what the plea to not "hurt" Kisiis implied of Raila's stance with regard to whether any other people (not Kisiis), should be "hurt". Party policy, or hordes shouting on streets?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 7:49:55 GMT 3
It is so easy to get away with murder in Kenya today ,because all suspects simply say "people are killed all the time" which is very true ,be it by police or by gangsters it doesnt matter because theres no diffrence between these two groups,they are one and the same like head and tail of a coin. jaugenya,your comments brought this song to mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 8:17:03 GMT 3
Adongo, check the Standard they say Ogora. Nguyai isn't L-R challenged judging from his oral testimony. I too noticed that in one of the Kenyan dailies, the name was spelt Ogora. So, what exactly is the big deal? Just a spelling mistake b6k. why harp on it? I really am just wondering. Pointing out the mistake would have sufficed no?
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Post by kunadawa on Oct 4, 2011 8:48:50 GMT 3
Adongo, check the Standard they say Ogora. Nguyai isn't L-R challenged judging from his oral testimony. I too noticed that in one of the Kenyan dailies, the name was spelt Ogora. So, what exactly is the big deal? Just a spelling mistake b6k. why harp on it? I really am just wondering. Pointing out the mistake would have sufficed no? The misspelling of Ogora to Ogolla on the subjectline of this post helped propel the viewership past the 3,000 mark. A contributor even stretched it further by referring to the same driver as Ogallo ;D ;D ;D
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Post by b6k on Oct 4, 2011 8:54:35 GMT 3
KK, that spelling mistake potentially changes the tribe of the driver as confirmed by Mastersugu. This is Kenya. That is a big deal.
Mank, you dah man! RAO showed he had command over the rag tag army that was running amok in RVP. If he could "save" the Kisii, why not the Kikuyu? Why is this man not at The Hague?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 9:18:25 GMT 3
b6k,
"KK, that spelling mistake potentially changes the tribe of the driver as confirmed by Mastersugu. This is Kenya. That is a big deal."
I get that. My question was why belabor the issue?
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