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Post by tnk on Apr 11, 2012 5:08:15 GMT 3
otishotish this is one of those we can ping pong back and forth for days on end. i bow out == p.s forgot to mention or rather ask have you ever seen correspondence where some people have the nerve to start it with the letters "FYI"?
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 11, 2012 5:22:34 GMT 3
otishotish this is one of those we can ping pong back and forth for days on end. i bow out So will I, but I will conclude with one statement, which I think may also apply to some other people: The fact that I don't care for Midiwo's little stunt does not mean that I don't care about Raila's welfare. As far as I am concerned, whether I know there is such a plot, or whether I remain ignorant, doesn't not make the slightest difference to anything or anyone. What matters is that Raila knows about it and will take whatever action he deems fit, which is why, in Midiwo's shoes, I would have started by informing Raila---and probably even left it there. Yes, at work. And most of the time I wonder why anyone thinks the "information" is useful to me, or is something I can or should do anything about, or whether my possession of such "information" makes the slightest difference in any manner, to anything or anyone, or .... There is just too much "information" and too little time in today's world, and it's being passed around should be aimed at having some practical, positive effect, and not just to kill time or generate "excitement" to keep the pot boiling. So, on my part, I choose what "information" goes where, rather than just do a blind broadcast. My work-colleagues appear to appreciate that; especially don't like being agitated by thoughts such as, "is this something I am expected to act upon?" or "oh dear! the sky is falling in!".
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Post by mank on Apr 11, 2012 5:51:32 GMT 3
Makes Midiwo sound like a natural magnet for info from the underword. ... but I think Nereah you are using the term "bursted" too liberally. If it is along this concept of "bursting" that Midiwo has a story, then the story will be a disappointment. mank ;D
let me say that as for now my lips are hah, Nereah, I cannot remember another time I smiled at a response on Jukwaa. Either I take life on Jukwaa too seriously, or there is something about this response that just gets at my hidden soft center. I suspect its some of both
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Post by morimax on Apr 11, 2012 8:18:18 GMT 3
KAMALETwhat makes you have a view that Midiwo was crying wolf in the link you gave above?.
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Post by morimax on Apr 11, 2012 8:29:06 GMT 3
This is what reckless utterances can lead to . Suffice to say ODM and ODM hawks are trying to play the tension card they played in 2007 . Kenyans are now more vigilant and with institutions in place to check such type of utterances and "reckless political play" I believe they will not pass by. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Reports+of+tension+over+Raila+murder+plot/-/1064/1383658/-/item/0/-/f71x1r/-/index.htmlNCIC: Reports of tension over Raila murder plot Share Bookmark Print Email Email this article to a friend Friend's Email Address Your Email Message Submit Cancel Rating National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) chairman Mzalendo Kibunjia said April 10, 2012 that there were credible reports of tension between the Luo and Kisii communities in Kisumu following allegations of a plot to kill Prime Minister Raila Odinga. FILE National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) chairman Mzalendo Kibunjia said April 10, 2012 that there were credible reports of tension between the Luo and Kisii communities in Kisumu following allegations of a plot to kill Prime Minister Raila Odinga. FILE By BENJAMIN MUINDI, bmuindi@ke.nationmedia.com Posted Tuesday, April 10 2012 at 17:14 Kenya's cohesion body has said there are credible reports of tension between the Luo and Kisii communities in Kisumu following allegations of a plot to kill Prime Minister Raila Odinga. National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) chairman Mzalendo Kibunjia Tuesday censored Gem MP Jakoyo Midiwo for making remarks over an alleged plot to assassinate Mr Odinga in public. “Mr Midiwo should have reported the matter to the police and allowed them to investigate to its logical conclusion,” Mr Kibunjia said at during a news conference in Nairobi. “The Commission has received credible reports regarding tensions mounting between the Luo and Kisii communities following the statement made by Mr Midiwo.” On Saturday, Mr Midiwo alleged mercenaries had been hired to execute the plot saying senior government officials he did not name were in the loop. On Monday, Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) directed the police to open investigations into the sensational claims. In a letter to Commissioner Mathew Iteere, DPP Keriako Tobiko directed the police to interrogate and record statements from Mr Midiwo and Foreign Affairs minister Sam Ongeri. "The gravity and magnitude of the allegations by Hon Modiwo, particularly during this period when the country is preparing for the next general election, cannot be over-emphasised. Share This Story Share "These allegations therefore require a prompt, thorough and speedy investigation to establish their veracity or otherwise," said the letter. The NCIC chairman said Mr Midiwo's allegations were grave. “The statement by Mr Midiwo whether true or not is of a serious nature and serious attention needs to be given to it,” Mr Kibunjia said. But he urged the two communities not to be drawn into a war that was not theirs and that they should exist peacefully and put their country first. The Commission, he said, has written a notice to the MP requiring him to keep peace and guard against language likely to inflame communal tension. “Leaders need to be alive to the fact that statements they make can inflame passions, incite and cause tension and even violent conflicts between ethnic communities.” He added that the he had alerted the police to watch out “for further utterances on the matter that would further serve to interfere with the cohesion of this country.” “The two principals also have a duty to continue holding the country together as they have done in the last four years.” Mr Kibunjia said this responsibility is greater now more than ever "considering that our politics are tribal, regional and that ethnic interest not ideologies drive Kenyan campaigns”. “We are coming out very strongly because it is our determination to break the jinx of violence in the General Election.” Quoting Kibunja here on Jukwaa!!!! Kibunja kitu gani? Bure Kabisa. Where was he during the inflammatory prayer rallies? where was Kibunja on GEMA and KAMATUSA? The tension in Kisumu exists in Kibunjas mind but nowhere on the ground. Bure Kabisa.
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Post by mzee on Apr 11, 2012 9:28:01 GMT 3
I agree kibunja is using guess work. As far as I know there is total peace between tribes. He is the one trying to incite people.
Now that the Nyanza Provincial Criminal Investigations Officer Joseph Magwanja has cinfirmed that there is NO TENSION between the kisii and the Luo in Kisumu, would Kibunja mind apologising?
Would he also explain why he is attempting to incite violence between communitees?
What a useless man.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 11, 2012 10:15:30 GMT 3
In Uhuru and Ruto Are Sowing Seeds of Discord and Laying Ground For Second PEV, omwenga.com/2012/02/01/uhuru-and-ruto-are-sowing-seeds-of-discord-and-laying-ground-for-pev-unless-stopped/, I reported on very disturbing turn of events at a rally held by Uhuru and Ruto at 64 Stadium, Eldoret. The reporting was accurate in rising the alarm the so-called prayer rallies were after-all not what they were billed to be; they were and to the extent they still are nothing but a sowing of seeds of discord, if not worse. In that blog, I noted the following about the rally: Several things can be said about this grim turn of events. First, Kenyans must simply not allow these characters to once again put the country on a path to election violence. Second, the president must come clean on his stand regarding this clear insinuation that he is an accomplice to this raving up of tribal animosity and hate by two individuals pitting their respective communities against the rest of the country. Third, it is amazingly shocking Mzalendo Kibunjia and NCIC has been completely mute on this obviously actionable hate speech spewed at 64 Stadium. Unless Kibunjia is already acting on this in some form or fashion behind the scenes, which is doubtful, given the gravity of this matter, someone should shake Kibunjia, wake him up and promptly tell him he is sacked and the whole NCIC dismantled; what is its use if it cannot address this very egregious violation of the law the body is charged with the responsibility to enforce in order to prevent a recurrence of PEV?You know very well that you are trying to switch attention from this serious matter that was meant to achieve some political objective to divert attention to shenanigans at Anniversary towers and which now seems to have seriusly backfired. Kibunjia is within his rights to imagine and warn of tribal tensions between the kisii and luos, but he should also be brought to account if he lies. This 'plot to kill Raila' has nothing to do with Uhuru or Ruto and you have not even managed to draw a parallel!! Fourth, the Supreme Court should take up the question of whether or not our constitution and laws of Kenya bar any of the ICC suspects from seeking the presidency and the Court should do so with extreme urgency because any delay will accord this characters more time to continue the dangerous path they are on relative to peace and harmony in the country. In another life you were a lawyer, have studied law and have access to a very good data base of Kenyan Law - www.kenyalaw.org - and you would be the last person to ask the supreme court to do as you suggest. Whilst you political motive is clearly understood, it is shameful that you can bring yourself to such a request. To put in it its most simplistic form - when did any of the suspects lose the presumption of innocence before a trial? Fifth, the mindless dragging of President Barrack Obama’s name into these reckless political schemes cannot be without legal or political implication, let alone the daring of peace loving nations as insinuated in these speeches. Do you understand US interests in Kenya and do these align to the interests of Kenyans? If they do not then Obama (whatever his presumed Kenyan-ness) becomes fair game. Once again, simply put, if you do not own any cattle, what business do you ave sitting in a Cattle Dip Tribunal? Sixth, the Kenya media must do a better job in exposing what is going on here. When people flagrantly lie that the prime minister is responsible for these suspects to be at the Hague when everyone knows that to be false, the media has the ethical and professional responsibility to point that out. Do you really believe in everything you write? Just do take a memory trip and tell me which Kenyans were murdering one another on 27th December 2007 or even why they decided to hack one another for a month in January 2008. They probably do not have TV in Mars, but then you surely did come back to earth to know whey they were killing one another. It was the electoral failure of the fella who is PM to get elected as president that they were doing this........do you see a link now as to why we have people at the ICC? Seventh, we cannot be where we are today in terms of reform but for the convergence of like minded interests and none other than the CSOs have been key and central in the relentless push for reforms and one from its ranks now sits at the highest court of the land as its head. Do these characters not care about that fact or are they convinced we are still living in the past where law or facts mattered not one bit in the eyes of the masters of impunity? Finally, but not least, Uhuru and Ruto should step back for a moment and answer the question, is stopping Raila from becoming president worth shedding the blood, let alone death of a single person? Your appeal to Uhuru and Ruto is utterly insane. Would you have asked the same question to Raila in 2008 when 3000 lives were actually lost because of HIM? One must wonder hwo some of you Raila sycophants think at times! Is their ambition to take the presidency one they are willing to pursue regardless of how their quest further divides the country? Do the people of Kenya beyond their respective tribes mean anything to them or are they in their minds idiots they need only scheme their way to State House and rule regardless of what divisive and backward manner they gain the presidency? Of what good is it to seek a presidency to govern a country up in arms or flames or simply in total chaos? Does Ivory Coast, Libya, Egypt, Syria and what has happened with their leaders mean anything to them or are they so naïve as to believe Kenyans and the rest of the civilized world, for that matter, would accept or stand by and watch as they incite or pursue the presidency as if it’s a matter of birthright? These are questions Uhuru, Ruto and those cheering them on must ask themselves, answer and act accordingly. Regardless of whether or not they do so, the president owes the nation handing over to the next president, a presidency under a climate that at least demonstrates that all the blood that was shed in 2007-2008; all the property that was stolen, taken over or burnt in 2007-2008, all the displacement of people from their homes that occurred in 2007-2008, all the rapes that occurred in the same period and the deaths that topped it was nothing even a fraction of our country should ever see again; not under his watch and not ever. His failure to do so would not only be an unbelievable letdown of Kenyans and complete evisceration of goodwill they have given him, even notwithstanding what happened in the 2007 elections and its aftermath, it will seal his legacy in a manner no one wishes to be remembered in history. Some say Kibaki doesn’t care about his legacy, others including this writer beg to differ and hope they are not wrong for in the end, what Kibaki does will impact how the next elections are conducted and concluded. The alternative is for the people themselves to override him and anyone else who still believes they hold sway over public anger and resentment for being taken for granted and abused at will. Let those who care about our country pray that Kibaki does the right thing and may it be so according to God’s will. End quote. Kibunjia suddenly now appears making this assertion which is clearly alarmist and as someone who is in touch with folks in Kisumu told me upon hearing this story that they are surprised at what Kibunjia said, isn't this a wholly wanting utterance crying for an investigation of its own? Forget about what my friend is saying, this is what the Standard is also reporting, www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056008&cid=4&: However Kibunjia’s allegations of rising tension were dismissed by a section of Kisumu residents, terming them alarming. Nyanza Provincial Criminal Investigations Officer Joseph Magwanja said police had not received any report of tension. “We are not aware of that, and there is no indication at all in the town. The situation is normal here in Kisumu,” he said. Jakoyo, who spent two hours at the CID headquarters, denied linking Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Ongeri to the assassination plot, arguing he had only challenged him to clarify some issues. “Prof Ongeri is trying to invite himself to the whole issue. I don’t remember linking him to the same. All I asked him was to clarify some part of the plot,” he said, and dared the minister to sue him. He said he asked Ongeri to investigate the alleged involvement of foreign individuals in the plot. I see you join the list of Kibunjia bashers when he draws the attention of the tensions in Kisumu but totally ignore that the same Kibunjia issued a statement about the 'prayer rallies' cautioning on incitement! ... We really must pray for our country and if there is a time we ever needed statesmen, wise men and women, its dawn is here.[/quote]
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Post by kamalet on Apr 11, 2012 10:31:45 GMT 3
KAMALETwhat makes you have a view that Midiwo was crying wolf in the link you gave above?. Morimax Try reading what I said...and I am not sure it is the same thing you read following on your question.
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Post by merlin on Apr 11, 2012 11:39:59 GMT 3
I find the discussion between the JUKWAA members amazing.
Some take the current government as one of high integrity with the organs of the government acting by the letter of the law and if you are threatened you can call on the organs for protection.
Most of the members who take this position are supporters of the wing of government who are in charge of the law enforcement, financial and security machinery. However they should be aware this wing of government has little or less integrity and is in danger of losing their grip over the government machinery by the next election. So let’s be real; would you request for help from such a questionable government organ if your life is in danger or cry out loudly so other people can hear you which increase the risk for the people who like to liquidate you in dark silence?
Our country is not divided into tribes though in two factions like our government. This division is also to be experienced here in JUKWAA. For a regular reader the position of the members is well known and thus their comments and arguments they use. There is little to learn from these so called discussions as their arguments do not relate to reality though to the imaginary society they pretend to represent. Some even purposely like to make reality hazy for readers as they prefer to tread in the shadowy area of society and still like to receive phony respect.
Let’s shout out about the threat on the life of the PM which will make the conspirers aware of the risk they are taking.
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 11, 2012 12:22:08 GMT 3
In Uhuru and Ruto Are Sowing Seeds of Discord and Laying Ground For Second PEV, omwenga.com/2012/02/01/uhuru-and-ruto-are-sowing-seeds-of-discord-and-laying-ground-for-pev-unless-stopped/, I reported on very disturbing turn of events at a rally held by Uhuru and Ruto at 64 Stadium, Eldoret. The reporting was accurate in rising the alarm the so-called prayer rallies were after-all not what they were billed to be; they were and to the extent they still are nothing but a sowing of seeds of discord, if not worse. In that blog, I noted the following about the rally: Several things can be said about this grim turn of events. First, Kenyans must simply not allow these characters to once again put the country on a path to election violence. Second, the president must come clean on his stand regarding this clear insinuation that he is an accomplice to this raving up of tribal animosity and hate by two individuals pitting their respective communities against the rest of the country. Third, it is amazingly shocking Mzalendo Kibunjia and NCIC has been completely mute on this obviously actionable hate speech spewed at 64 Stadium. Unless Kibunjia is already acting on this in some form or fashion behind the scenes, which is doubtful, given the gravity of this matter, someone should shake Kibunjia, wake him up and promptly tell him he is sacked and the whole NCIC dismantled; what is its use if it cannot address this very egregious violation of the law the body is charged with the responsibility to enforce in order to prevent a recurrence of PEV?You know very well that you are trying to switch attention from this serious matter that was meant to achieve some political objective to divert attention to shenanigans at Anniversary towers and which now seems to have seriusly backfired. Kibunjia is within his rights to imagine and warn of tribal tensions between the kisii and luos, but he should also be brought to account if he lies. This 'plot to kill Raila' has nothing to do with Uhuru or Ruto and you have not even managed to draw a parallel!! In another life you were a lawyer, have studied law and have access to a very good data base of Kenyan Law - www.kenyalaw.org - and you would be the last person to ask the supreme court to do as you suggest. Whilst you political motive is clearly understood, it is shameful that you can bring yourself to such a request. To put in it its most simplistic form - when did any of the suspects lose the presumption of innocence before a trial? Do you understand US interests in Kenya and do these align to the interests of Kenyans? If they do not then Obama (whatever his presumed Kenyan-ness) becomes fair game. Once again, simply put, if you do not own any cattle, what business do you ave sitting in a Cattle Dip Tribunal? Do you really believe in everything you write? Just do take a memory trip and tell me which Kenyans were murdering one another on 27th December 2007 or even why they decided to hack one another for a month in January 2008. They probably do not have TV in Mars, but then you surely did come back to earth to know whey they were killing one another. It was the electoral failure of the fella who is PM to get elected as president that they were doing this........do you see a link now as to why we have people at the ICC? Your appeal to Uhuru and Ruto is utterly insane. Would you have asked the same question to Raila in 2008 when 3000 lives were actually lost because of HIM? One must wonder hwo some of you Raila sycophants think at times! I see you join the list of Kibunjia bashers when he draws the attention of the tensions in Kisumu but totally ignore that the same Kibunjia issued a statement about the 'prayer rallies' cautioning on incitement! ... We really must pray for our country and if there is a time we ever needed statesmen, wise men and women, its dawn is here. [/quote] A few things to say in response to this: First, I am not trying to switch attention from anything. Second, nothing has backfired against anything regarding what Midiwo made public. Third, Kibunjia is within his right to imagine anything but must confine same within his mind or share privately with those he does so but not publicly. What he shares publicly must be facts and not conjecture or imagination, especially if it has a tendency to be alarmist. Fourth, what I said in my blog about the Supreme Court urgently settling this question of whether or not the ICC suspects are eligible to vie for the presidency remains as I have said and I am sure one's guilt or innocence will be part of the court's analysis but the distinction in by itself is not determinative as to who qualifies to run for president under our constitution. Fifth, what is shameful is you not understanding point # 4 above. Sixth, I fully understand the US interests in Kenya and how they align or don't align with our own interests; there is nothing about those interests, alignment or non-alignment that justifies what was said about Obama at 64 Stadium. Seventh, I believe everything I write, otherwise I will not write it. Eighth, since the confirmation of charges against the PEV suspects, I made a decision to minimize my comments on the process. I have also had a long-standing policy which is still in effect of not debating the issue which is even less necessary now that we have had the confirmation of charges; let the litigation occur there as we sit and watch. You can say things until you go blue or whatever color as to your theories and "facts" about what happened but the resolution lies at ICC so no need to say anything in response to what you have said about PEV. I have, however, blogged quite a bit about it and you can read it all there especially in my series Who Is William Ruto omwenga.com/2011/04/07/who-is-william-ruto-part-v/where I have provided my legal analysis of the case against Ruto. There is an update why I now say he may be nailed contrary to my opposite conclusion in that series. Ninth, there is nothing insane about what I have asked Uhuru and Ruto to ask themselves and that is, is being president worth the shedding of blood, let alone the death of a single person? The question you have asked in the form of a rejoinder to this is dumb and I am sure you can see why that is so. Tenth, stop this nonsense of calling all Raila supporters "sycophants;" I know some of you have a cult-like obsession of doing this but try and focus on discussion of issues than injecting this useless labels and name-calling. FYI, I don't bash anyone; I state facts or analyze them. Hehehe. I saw something earlier about FYI. Somethings are creature of habit than anything else.
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Post by nalinali on Apr 11, 2012 13:28:57 GMT 3
Nyar mara, I excluded you from that team of swarming mediocrity yawa!! I thought your informed contribution echoed my thoughts and I said as much. Didn't you see? ~ Nalinali, (Ai yawa nyathi jomoko!) I followed with shock the inability of some members of your select class of elite rocket scientists, to decipher the abc praise prose you winged their ways! Okay, Omwenga gets a pass first attempt! but all the heisa has left me feeling very comfortable and confident at my high school ceiling/limit! See, I aint dissappointing you now! Jakaswanga, Your shock would be admissible only if you had already sworn a commitment to the threshold of stodgy, run of the mill and woefully unreflective debates, as indelibly marked in/by the pesky contributions of the (un)select class--the butt ends of my displeasure. You disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. For a political space which is starved of visible, visionary guidance, it makes a big difference if forums like Jukwaa, perched on the edge of intellectually honest and progressive slant, steer clear of the banalities that have engulfed political discourse amongst us. The sad fact is that, such banalities have since independence, been framed in nationalistic terms, when in actual fact they are part of the institutionalized insidious misinformation designed to buttress the domination of the gullible by the ruling tribal elite. Heaping it all on Midiwo even in the face of the revelations that the police outfit exists for the defense of the Kikuyu status-quo, and would do anything to further ethnic interests, indicate the extent to which discourse aspiring to be progressive and --out of the box if you like--is held captive to such insidiousness. By entertaining views of Kamalet..mwa... to Nowayhaha, we are actually giving credence to what should have been banished from this forum long time ago. That ain't no way of dealing with raw ethnic arrogance that has destroyed Kenya.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 11, 2012 14:20:21 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, Your shock would be admissible only if you had already sworn a commitment to the threshold of stodgy, run of the mill and woefully unreflective debates, as indelibly marked in/by the pesky contributions of the (un)select class--the butt ends of my displeasure. You disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. For a political space which is starved of visible, visionary guidance, it makes a big difference if forums like Jukwaa, perched on the edge of intellectually honest and progressive slant, steer clear of the banalities that have engulfed political discourse amongst us. The sad fact is that, such banalities have since independence, been framed in nationalistic terms, when in actual fact they are part of the institutionalized insidious misinformation designed to buttress the domination of the gullible by the ruling tribal elite. Heaping it all on Midiwo even in the face of the revelations that the police outfit exists for the defense of the Kikuyu status-quo, and would do anything to further ethnic interests, indicate the extent to which discourse aspiring to be progressive and --out of the box if you like--is held captive to such insidiousness. By entertaining views of Kamalet..mwa... to Nowayhaha, we are actually giving credence to what should have been banished from this forum long time ago. That ain't no way of dealing with raw ethnic arrogance that has destroyed Kenya. Nalinali Sadly you take us back to the stupid days of 2007 where we heard of "madoadoa" which you surely must mean "Kamalet...mwa...to Nowayhaha" and the 41 Vs 1 mantra of certain ODM politicians. To you everything is the Kikuyu versus the rest of Kenya and it perhaps explains your censure of Jakaswanga for not seeing it from the "other" side's point of view in this Midiwo saga! Intellectual honesty is not a preserve of the non-gikuyu who you try to hold at a higher level of human dignity than the gikuyu. But then I have always held the view that anyone who thinks as you do suffers from an inferiority complex which is something that is totally unnecessary! How you can think of the police outfit existing to serve as a defence of the Kikuyu status quo hence nails you down on how badly you are doing. But I cannot blame you for you are not alone! Midiwo opened his mouth to claim a murder plot on Raila - the least he would owe you as a Raila supporter is proof of what he is claiming and that he was not crying wolf! I am surprised that you will happily take it that there is such a plot and when you bring all this anti-gikuyu drivel you seem even happier that Raila's fate is sealed for no one is then able to protect him! Luckily, Raila has told us he is not afraid to die....stop worrying yourself silly!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 11, 2012 15:46:12 GMT 3
Midiwo amesema!!
Kenyans are watching closes.. Maybe if the police force & Intelligent appointments were equally balanced and shared among all tribes people like Midiwo would have had no issue sorting their help in regards to the said Plot on th PM...
Trying to convince Kenyans from other tribes that all is well when The demon of tribalism still rears it ugly head in government appointments..
Kenyans hope after next elections all the nonsense below will cease to exist..
Administration Police Commandant--------Kinuthia Mbugua
Criminal Investigation Department
CID Director------------------Francis Ndegwa Muhoro
Director General NSIS --------Michael Gichangi
Commissioner of Police--------Mathew Iteere
Provincial Commissioners:
Nairobi Province------------------------------Njoroge Ndirangu
Coast Province---------------------------------Ernest G. Munyi
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 11, 2012 15:56:58 GMT 3
I find the discussion between the JUKWAA members amazing. Some take the current government as one of high integrity with the organs of the government acting by the letter of the law and if you are threatened you can call on the organs for protection. Most of the members who take this position are supporters of the wing of government who are in charge of the law enforcement, financial and security machinery. However they should be aware this wing of government has little or less integrity and is in danger of losing their grip over the government machinery by the next election. So let’s be real; would you request for help from such a questionable government organ if your life is in danger or cry out loudly so other people can hear you which increase the risk for the people who like to liquidate you in dark silence? Our country is not divided into tribes though in two factions like our government. This division is also to be experienced here in JUKWAA. For a regular reader the position of the members is well known and thus their comments and arguments they use. There is little to learn from these so called discussions as their arguments do not relate to reality though to the imaginary society they pretend to represent. Some even purposely like to make reality hazy for readers as they prefer to tread in the shadowy area of society and still like to receive phony respect. Let’s shout out about the threat on the life of the PM which will make the conspirers aware of the risk they are taking. I couldn't let this one go by, but this is definitely my last word. I find it amazing that some people simply can't read, so this time I will put it in red/bold and hope it is not missed. 1. We all know that the Kenyan police is corrupt and incompetent and will "investigate' with a view to protecting certain powers and not with a view to getting to the truth. Nobody expects them to seriously investigate matters where the interests of their "masters" are not served. Don't assume that we are naive and ignorant simply because we have not chosen to jump up and down about this one.
2. Regardless of (1), and even if they just pretend to be serious and to be seen to be doing something, they will get involved when claims are made about attempts to assassinate the PM, and they will talk to the people making such claims. So one might as well just talk to them instead of issuing absurd challenges to be challenged.
3. If one knows of a plan to assassinate the PM, it would seem sensible to immediately inform the PM. Waiting to hijack a funeral, in the most distasteful manner, to engage in a circus-like stunt, is not the most helpful way of getting such information to the alleged target.
4. Because of (3), many people, and not just on Jukwaa, are wondering what sort of a joke Midiwo is engaged in. That should be sufficient to indicate that he went about this in a completely wrong way. There have been more than one hare-brained claims about plots to assassinate the PM, so any more claims should be made in a more sobre manner; otherwise people will simply get turned off when they hear one.
5. Because of (4), not everyone is shouting about the threat, as you would imagine. What's more, even if they were, merely shouting would not assure the PM's security. The PM's security can be assured only by arresting the plotters or by improving the PM's security. The idea that the PM's security is assured simply by telling the public about an alleged plot is an absurd one, and I hope the PM's security detail isn't relying on that.
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Post by nalinali on Apr 11, 2012 16:16:13 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, Your shock would be admissible only if you had already sworn a commitment to the threshold of stodgy, run of the mill and woefully unreflective debates, as indelibly marked in/by the pesky contributions of the (un)select class--the butt ends of my displeasure. You disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. For a political space which is starved of visible, visionary guidance, it makes a big difference if forums like Jukwaa, perched on the edge of intellectually honest and progressive slant, steer clear of the banalities that have engulfed political discourse amongst us. The sad fact is that, such banalities have since independence, been framed in nationalistic terms, when in actual fact they are part of the institutionalized insidious misinformation designed to buttress the domination of the gullible by the ruling tribal elite. Heaping it all on Midiwo even in the face of the revelations that the police outfit exists for the defense of the Kikuyu status-quo, and would do anything to further ethnic interests, indicate the extent to which discourse aspiring to be progressive and --out of the box if you like--is held captive to such insidiousness. By entertaining views of Kamalet..mwa... to Nowayhaha, we are actually giving credence to what should have been banished from this forum long time ago. That ain't no way of dealing with raw ethnic arrogance that has destroyed Kenya. Nalinali Sadly you take us back to the stupid days of 2007 where we heard of "madoadoa" which you surely must mean "Kamalet...mwa...to Nowayhaha" and the 41 Vs 1 mantra of certain ODM politicians. To you everything is the Kikuyu versus the rest of Kenya and it perhaps explains your censure of Jakaswanga for not seeing it from the "other" side's point of view in this Midiwo saga! Intellectual honesty is not a preserve of the non-gikuyu who you try to hold at a higher level of human dignity than the gikuyu. But then I have always held the view that anyone who thinks as you do suffers from an inferiority complex which is something that is totally unnecessary! How you can think of the police outfit existing to serve as a defence of the Kikuyu status quo hence nails you down on how badly you are doing. But I cannot blame you for you are not alone! Midiwo opened his mouth to claim a murder plot on Raila - the least he would owe you as a Raila supporter is proof of what he is claiming and that he was not crying wolf! I am surprised that you will happily take it that there is such a plot and when you bring all this anti-gikuyu drivel you seem even happier that Raila's fate is sealed for no one is then able to protect him! Luckily, Raila has told us he is not afraid to die....stop worrying yourself silly! Kamalet The 41 against one nonsense is a ruse that has been purveyed by puny brained ethnic bigots for far too long as to make any sense. It is normally deployed in order to inoculate such bigots from scrutiny and incrimination. Do not feign sadness you hypocrite. I consider you to be art of the cast of failed intellectuals who kowtow to highly partisan interests. They have become the sanitizing voice of corruption, dishonesty, blatant ethnicity, illusion of hegemony etc: I can count so many this league who remain a danger to any meaningful change in Kenya going by their intellectual cum political posture so far. :
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Post by merlin on Apr 11, 2012 16:28:06 GMT 3
I find the discussion between the JUKWAA members amazing. Some take the current government as one of high integrity with the organs of the government acting by the letter of the law and if you are threatened you can call on the organs for protection. Most of the members who take this position are supporters of the wing of government who are in charge of the law enforcement, financial and security machinery. However they should be aware this wing of government has little or less integrity and is in danger of losing their grip over the government machinery by the next election. So let’s be real; would you request for help from such a questionable government organ if your life is in danger or cry out loudly so other people can hear you which increase the risk for the people who like to liquidate you in dark silence? Our country is not divided into tribes though in two factions like our government. This division is also to be experienced here in JUKWAA. For a regular reader the position of the members is well known and thus their comments and arguments they use. There is little to learn from these so called discussions as their arguments do not relate to reality though to the imaginary society they pretend to represent. Some even purposely like to make reality hazy for readers as they prefer to tread in the shadowy area of society and still like to receive phony respect. Let’s shout out about the threat on the life of the PM which will make the conspirers aware of the risk they are taking. I couldn't let this one go by, but this is definitely my last word. I find it amazing that some people simply can't read, so this time I will put it in red/bold and hope it is not missed. 1. We all know that the Kenyan police is corrupt and incompetent and will "investigate' with a view to protecting certain powers and not with a view to getting to the truth. Nobody expects them to seriously investigate matters where the interests of their "masters" are not served. Don't assume that we are naive and ignorant simply because we have not chosen to jump up and down about this one.
2. Regardless of (1), and even if they just pretend to be serious and to be seen to be doing something, they will get involved when claims are made about attempts to assassinate the PM, and they will talk to the people making such claims. So one might as well just talk to them instead of issuing absurd challenges to be challenged.
3. If one knows of a plan to assassinate the PM, it would seem sensible to immediately inform the PM. Waiting to hijack a funeral, in the most distasteful manner, to engage in a circus-like stunt, is not the most helpful way of getting such information to the alleged target.
4. Because of (3), many people, and not just on Jukwaa, are wondering what sort of a joke Midiwo is engaged in. That should be sufficient to indicate that he went about this in a completely wrong way. There have been more than one hare-brained claims about plots to assassinate the PM, so any more claims should be made in a more sobre manner; otherwise people will simply get turned off when they hear one.
5. Because of (4), not everyone is shouting about the threat, as you would imagine. What's more, even if they were, merely shouting would not assure the PM's security. The PM's security can be assured only by arresting the plotters or by improving the PM's security. The idea that the PM's security is assured simply by telling the public about an alleged plot is an absurd one, and I hope the PM's security detail isn't relying on that. Otishotish,Back to your point 5; Conspirers do evaluate the consequences of their proposed action. If the consequences are bad enough for them they probably will not go into action. So how can you make the consequences unfavourable to them? You can report the plot to the Police, You can make many people aware of the plot, You can expose the plotters, You can improve the security of the PM, You can do all of the above, You can inform one or few people of the plot though this can be dangerous as the plotters would eliminate you as source of information, You can do nothing, What would be the most effective action you can take?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Apr 11, 2012 17:37:08 GMT 3
There was a time when Jukwaa used to pride itself as being a forum where intellectual and meaningful discussions would be debated to the satisfaction of all and where people would disagree on issues based on their convictions. How do you have a country that has people like @ Mwalimumkuu in it and expect to have a normal thriving country filled with people of thought? It is mindboggling to know that Kenya has people like this with such a narrow mind and yet cheat themselves that they are intelligent. It is yet a testimony that Moi did not stay in power for 24 years for nothing. . Johns,I rarely respond to such, I actually don't, you must have noted that by now. Why? Because to me, such only boarders on raw anger and nothing else. But since you have been here long enough, why don't you do us a favor and be a little intelligent like the good old Jukwaa that you miss and are so nostalgic about. What exactly don't you like about what I said under-leaf? You see, intelligent people probe and interrogate, they do not throw sweeping statements around and walk away feeling so sweet that they have told someone off, no. They expose the unintelligible thoughts. So over to you my good friend, give us the Jukwaa that we must remember.
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Post by Fahari on Apr 11, 2012 20:34:16 GMT 3
~ Nalinali, (Ai yawa nyathi jomoko!) I followed with shock the inability of some members of your select class of elite rocket scientists, to decipher the abc praise prose you winged their ways! Okay, Omwenga gets a pass first attempt! but all the heisa has left me feeling very comfortable and confident at my high school ceiling/limit! See, I aint dissappointing you now! Jakaswanga, Your shock would be admissible only if you had already sworn a commitment to the threshold of stodgy, run of the mill and woefully unreflective debates, as indelibly marked in/by the pesky contributions of the (un)select class--the butt ends of my displeasure. You disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. For a political space which is starved of visible, visionary guidance, it makes a big difference if forums like Jukwaa, perched on the edge of intellectually honest and progressive slant, steer clear of the banalities that have engulfed political discourse amongst us. The sad fact is that, such banalities have since independence, been framed in nationalistic terms, when in actual fact they are part of the institutionalized insidious misinformation designed to buttress the domination of the gullible by the ruling tribal elite. Heaping it all on Midiwo even in the face of the revelations that the police outfit exists for the defense of the Kikuyu status-quo, and would do anything to further ethnic interests, indicate the extent to which discourse aspiring to be progressive and --out of the box if you like--is held captive to such insidiousness. By entertaining views of Kamalet..mwa... to Nowayhaha, we are actually giving credence to what should have been banished from this forum long time ago. That ain't no way of dealing with raw ethnic arrogance that has destroyed Kenya. Kweli Nyani haoni kundule.......you complain about the dropping level of discourse on this forum then proceed to lower the standards even further by unleashing a torrent of ethnic diatribeI must admit you take to ethnic bashing like swine to swill...... forgive the metaphor but oh how so appropriate......... Then blissfully unaware of stench you cause, call for the banishment of all skunks!!!!! Interesting thing is that those who your ethnic lenses perceive as "undesirables" are those who disagree with your political view
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Post by mank on Apr 12, 2012 1:33:14 GMT 3
I find the discussion between the JUKWAA members amazing.
Some take the current government as one of high integrity with the organs of the government acting by the letter of the law and if you are threatened you can call on the organs for protection.
Most of the members who take this position are supporters of the wing of government who are in charge of the law enforcement, financial and security machinery. However they should be aware this wing of government has little or less integrity and is in danger of losing their grip over the government machinery by the next election. So let’s be real; would you request for help from such a questionable government organ if your life is in danger or cry out loudly so other people can hear you which increase the risk for the people who like to liquidate you in dark silence?
Our country is not divided into tribes though in two factions like our government. This division is also to be experienced here in JUKWAA. For a regular reader the position of the members is well known and thus their comments and arguments they use. There is little to learn from these so called discussions as their arguments do not relate to reality though to the imaginary society they pretend to represent. Some even purposely like to make reality hazy for readers as they prefer to tread in the shadowy area of society and still like to receive phony respect.
Let’s shout out about the threat on the life of the PM which will make the conspirers aware of the risk they are taking. Merlin, I do not think anyone on Jukwaa belongs to the category you describe thus .... " Some take the current government as one of high integrity with the organs of the government acting by the letter of the law and if you are threatened you can call on the organs for protection." Point out anyone who belongs to that category. There is something disingenuous about this effort to explain Midiwo's tactic with the CV of the police force. To insist insist that police record explains that tactic, you must first explain why Raila was not informed either. We have asked this question many times and all we get is this old condemnation of the police force and a corrupt government - or was Raila left out because he is part of the corrupt government .... as if he would sacrifice his life to cover for a corrupt government? To use your words, "So let’s be real." Raila is half the head of the corrupt government of Kenya, and if his life is in danger, distrust for the government would not translate to distrust of Raila on the same issue.
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Post by mzee on Apr 12, 2012 10:23:56 GMT 3
Now that the Nyanza Provincial Criminal Investigations Officer Joseph Magwanja has revealed that there is no tension between the kisii and luo in kisumu, would Dr. Kibunja mind apologising to the two tribes and kenyans at large?
Why is he attempting to incite people into violence?
Bure kabisa
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Apr 12, 2012 17:46:10 GMT 3
ou disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. Nalinali:There is ZERO TOLERANCE here in Jukwaa on tribal BS, such as what you spew above. Consider yourself WARNED PUBLICLY. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator
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Post by nalinali on Apr 12, 2012 18:40:30 GMT 3
ou disappointed me YES, but not to the extent of earning permanent membership to the club of the (un)select.--most of whom are, plainly speaking, Kikuyu elite and Muthamaki drunk specimens. One would be forgiven to imagine that these folks could have been part of the famous 1969 Gatundu tea sessions. They form part of the larger group who are ever emasculated by/at the mention of the name Odinga. Nalinali:There is ZERO TOLERANCE here in Jukwaa on tribal BS, such as what you spew above. Consider yourself WARNED PUBLICLY. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa AdministratorOO You should do better than that by banning me if what I state there is unequivocally false. I will not retract what is plain for all to see unless of course they are captive to the most atavistic form of interpellation. If you drink from the fountain of history Oloo, you will willingly accept the truth in what I say. No sugarcoating if we are to slay the dragon of historically constructed ethnic entitlement and impunity. We are where we are because of too much PC.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Apr 12, 2012 18:56:37 GMT 3
Nalinali:There is ZERO TOLERANCE here in Jukwaa on tribal BS, such as what you spew above. Consider yourself WARNED PUBLICLY. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator OO You should do better than that by banning me if what I state there is false. I will not retract what is plain for all to see. If you drink from the fountain of history Oloo, what I speak there is true. No sugar coating. We are where we are because of too much PC. Talk of high school minds, they come in all colors. God help us.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Apr 12, 2012 18:58:28 GMT 3
Johns,
Where at thou my good friend? What say you?
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Post by adongo23456 on Apr 12, 2012 19:31:09 GMT 3
Good to see folks running for cover like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Where they go after that is another matter all together. But surely if these are the people we entrust with the security of the nation, is it any wonder that the country has gone to the dogs on matters of security. The Police Commissioner can't face the truth. The CID boss can't face the truth. The minister of internal security and even Wamalwa the loud mouth who defended the forged document in parliament is now hiding claiming the ministry of justice does not address ICC issues. Now the head of NSIS is being to reported to the Speaker for refusing to deal with the ICC forgeries. Of course there is nothing the Speaker can do about the head protector of the crooks in power. And we wonder why we ended up at The Hague. Here is what I am talking about. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/04/mps-furious-with-spy-chief-protest-to-speaker/
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