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Post by Omwenga on Apr 13, 2012 2:48:48 GMT 3
Good to see folks running for cover like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Where they go after that is another matter all together. But surely if these are the people we entrust with the security of the nation, is it any wonder that the country has gone to the dogs on matters of security. The Police Commissioner can't face the truth. The CID boss can't face the truth. The minister of internal security and even Wamalwa the loud mouth who defended the forged document in parliament is now hiding claiming the ministry of justice does not address ICC issues. Now the head of NSIS is being to reported to the Speaker for refusing to deal with the ICC forgeries. Of course there is nothing the Speaker can do about the head protector of the crooks in power. And we wonder why we ended up at The Hague. Here is what I am talking about. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/04/mps-furious-with-spy-chief-protest-to-speaker/Talking about security, the Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056164&cid=4&reports that the PM's security has been increased by 10 agents to 60. Great, you say; how is that compared to the President? The president has a small army of 200 security agents "supplemented by another standby unit wherever he visits, complete with air evacuation, and armoured protection." I will seat back and have anyone provide the justification for the difference given this is supposed to a coalition government of equal partners. Please don't site the fact everything else is this slope-sided or worse.
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Post by mank on Apr 13, 2012 4:30:43 GMT 3
Talking about security, the Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056164&cid=4&reports that the PM's security has been increased by 10 agents to 60. Great, you say; how is that compared to the President?
The president has a small army of 200 security agents "supplemented by another standby unit wherever he visits, complete with air evacuation, and armoured protection."
I will seat back and have anyone provide the justification for the difference given this is supposed to a coalition government of equal partners.
Please don't site the fact everything else is this slope-sided or worse. Sounds like excessive on both bodies, with one being extremely excessive. I wonder who makes the decision.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 11:05:47 GMT 3
Good to see folks running for cover like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Where they go after that is another matter all together. But surely if these are the people we entrust with the security of the nation, is it any wonder that the country has gone to the dogs on matters of security. The Police Commissioner can't face the truth. The CID boss can't face the truth. The minister of internal security and even Wamalwa the loud mouth who defended the forged document in parliament is now hiding claiming the ministry of justice does not address ICC issues. Now the head of NSIS is being to reported to the Speaker for refusing to deal with the ICC forgeries. Of course there is nothing the Speaker can do about the head protector of the crooks in power. And we wonder why we ended up at The Hague. Here is what I am talking about. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/04/mps-furious-with-spy-chief-protest-to-speaker/Talking about security, the Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056164&cid=4&reports that the PM's security has been increased by 10 agents to 60. Great, you say; how is that compared to the President? The president has a small army of 200 security agents "supplemented by another standby unit wherever he visits, complete with air evacuation, and armoured protection." I will seat back and have anyone provide the justification for the difference given this is supposed to a coalition government of equal partners. Please don't site the fact everything else is this slope-sided or worse. Omwenga Pretty simple answer for you. One is head of state and goverment whilst the other is a a prefect in that government.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 11:07:24 GMT 3
Good to see folks running for cover like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Where they go after that is another matter all together. But surely if these are the people we entrust with the security of the nation, is it any wonder that the country has gone to the dogs on matters of security. The Police Commissioner can't face the truth. The CID boss can't face the truth. The minister of internal security and even Wamalwa the loud mouth who defended the forged document in parliament is now hiding claiming the ministry of justice does not address ICC issues. Now the head of NSIS is being to reported to the Speaker for refusing to deal with the ICC forgeries. Of course there is nothing the Speaker can do about the head protector of the crooks in power. And we wonder why we ended up at The Hague. Here is what I am talking about. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/04/mps-furious-with-spy-chief-protest-to-speaker/Talking about security, the Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056164&cid=4&reports that the PM's security has been increased by 10 agents to 60. Great, you say; how is that compared to the President? The president has a small army of 200 security agents "supplemented by another standby unit wherever he visits, complete with air evacuation, and armoured protection." I will seat back and have anyone provide the justification for the difference given this is supposed to a coalition government of equal partners. Please don't site the fact everything else is this slope-sided or worse. The difference Mr. Omwenga is that the one is the president, head of state and head of government whilst the other is only a prefect in that government. It really is that simple!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Apr 13, 2012 15:20:16 GMT 3
OO You should do better than that by banning me if what I state there is unequivocally false. I will not retract what is plain for all to see unless of course they are captive to the most atavistic form of interpellation. If you drink from the fountain of history Oloo, you will willingly accept the truth in what I say. No sugarcoating if we are to slay the dragon of historically constructed ethnic entitlement and impunity. We are where we are because of too much PC. Nalinali:I have read what you wrote above. All I can say is that you have spoken. And I say, very well, Nalinali, very well. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 20:56:51 GMT 3
Talking about security, the Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056164&cid=4&reports that the PM's security has been increased by 10 agents to 60. Great, you say; how is that compared to the President? The president has a small army of 200 security agents "supplemented by another standby unit wherever he visits, complete with air evacuation, and armoured protection." I will seat back and have anyone provide the justification for the difference given this is supposed to a coalition government of equal partners. Please don't site the fact everything else is this slope-sided or worse. The difference Mr. Omwenga is that the one is the president, head of state and head of government whilst the other is only a prefect in that government. It really is that simple! KamaletYup!! Of course the Alternate Head of State needs more protection if he has been engaged in scrupulous affairs while running the country.. that means he is kept very busy protecting himself while the Real LEADER is running affairs without fear hence fewer protection manpower.. which a leader with a conscious mind not afraid to face the citizens of a country doesn't require.. why should a leader fear the citizens? In this scenario the "PREFECT" is actually the 'CHIEF OF THE STATE/HEAD OF STATE" he governs without fear.. while the alternate head of state crawls around in fear with 100's of bodies protecting him against ordinary citizens!!!!!let those who live in fear gather henchmen and security apparatus around them and that too shall come to pass!! ask Moi..
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 21:13:52 GMT 3
The difference Mr. Omwenga is that the one is the president, head of state and head of government whilst the other is only a prefect in that government. It really is that simple! KamaletYup!! Of course the Alternate Head of State needs more protection if he has been engaged in scrupulous affairs while running the country.. that means he is kept very busy protecting himself while the Real LEADER is running affairs without fear hence fewer protection manpower.. which a leader with a conscious mind not afraid to face the citizens of a country doesn't require.. why should a leader fear the citizens? In this scenario the "PREFECT" is actually the 'CHIEF OF THE STATE/HEAD OF STATE" he governs without fear.. while the alternate head of state crawls around in fear with 100's of bodies protecting him against ordinary citizens!!!!!let those who live in fear gather henchmen and security apparatus around them and that too shall come to pass!! ask Moi.. even by your standards, on this one you have outdone yourself!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 21:23:08 GMT 3
KamaletYup!! Of course the Alternate Head of State needs more protection if he has been engaged in scrupulous affairs while running the country.. that means he is kept very busy protecting himself while the Real LEADER is running affairs without fear hence fewer protection manpower.. which a leader with a conscious mind not afraid to face the citizens of a country doesn't require.. why should a leader fear the citizens? In this scenario the "PREFECT" is actually the 'CHIEF OF THE STATE/HEAD OF STATE" he governs without fear.. while the alternate head of state crawls around in fear with 100's of bodies protecting him against ordinary citizens!!!!!let those who live in fear gather henchmen and security apparatus around them and that too shall come to pass!! ask Moi.. even by your standards, on this one you have outdone yourself! isn't Ironic when facts are stated it seems for same people hard to swallow ama! just stating as is according to you own narrative here.. Prefect Vis`-a-vis´Head of State.. " Coalition Government" has two equal leaders" it is up to Kenyans to decide who does a better Job.. in their position as heads of State! but if you equate security numbers guarding them to be testament to who does a better job then most Kenyans would beg to differ
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 21:45:32 GMT 3
even by your standards, on this one you have outdone yourself! isn't Ironic when facts are stated it seems for same people hard to swallow ama! just stating as is according to you own narrative here.. Prefect Vis`-a-vis´Head of State.. " Coalition Government" has two equal leaders" it is up to Kenyans to decide who does a better Job.. in their position as heads of State! but if you equate security numbers guarding them to be testament to who does a better job then most Kenyans would beg to differ ...you still did not get it hence you just dug your hole deeper. Moving on...
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 21:57:43 GMT 3
isn't Ironic when facts are stated it seems for same people hard to swallow ama! just stating as is according to you own narrative here.. Prefect Vis`-a-vis´Head of State.. " Coalition Government" has two equal leaders" it is up to Kenyans to decide who does a better Job.. in their position as heads of State! but if you equate security numbers guarding them to be testament to who does a better job then most Kenyans would beg to differ ...you still did not get it hence you just dug your hole deeper. Moving on... Which Hole am I digging deeper Kamalet??? the last holes that were dug are the 6ft deep that innocent kenyans were buried in during and after the 2007-2008 clashes.. unless you are digging the same type of hole for me do enlighten me further.. Meanwhile lets be very clear when it comes to the management and running of Kenya Government Under the coalition government " Both leaders have equal standing one can't govern without the other or else government collapses. Unless you want to call your buddy a prefects then that is fine.. hold your opinion don't expect to come on a public forum belittling one leader over the other and expect Kenyans citizens to keep that only happens on Mashada! enuff said!
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 13, 2012 22:27:12 GMT 3
..you still did not get it hence you just dug your hole deeper. Moving on... Meanwhile lets be very clear when it comes to the management and running of Kenya Government Under the coalition government " Both leaders have equal standing one can't govern without the other or else government collapses. Unless you want to call your buddy a prefects then that is fine.. hold your opinion don't expect to come on a public forum belittling one leader over the other and expect Kenyans citizens to keep that only happens on Mashada! enuff said! Dear reporterActually somebody had raised the issue long ago, I suspect it was his highness Miguna Miguna who was a stickler to bareaucratic details of the half-loaf. I am told Muthaura won this one hands down. He said Kibaki is his excellency the president, Raila is the honourable prime minister. A clever Luo like you [Miguna] should know parity in direct power is fiction. There is a president and the rest. That is the reality of power, even if Annan wrote for you they are equal!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 22:42:06 GMT 3
Meanwhile lets be very clear when it comes to the management and running of Kenya Government Under the coalition government " Both leaders have equal standing one can't govern without the other or else government collapses. Unless you want to call your buddy a prefects then that is fine.. hold your opinion don't expect to come on a public forum belittling one leader over the other and expect Kenyans citizens to keep that only happens on Mashada! enuff said! Dear reporterActually somebody had raised the issue long ago, I suspect it was his highness Miguna Miguna who was a stickler to bareaucratic details of the half-loaf. I am told Muthaura won this one hands down. He said Kibaki is his excellency the president, Raila is the honourable prime minister. A clever Luo like you [Miguna] should know parity in direct power is fiction. There is a president and the rest. That is the reality of power, even if Annan wrote for you they are equal! I like many Kenyan don't take advise or direction from Muthaura or any other Kenyans who engage themselves in scrupolous affairs of the state in disregard of the law of the land, that is called criminal.. Facts are facts, if you can proof to Kenyans that either Kibaki or Raila can run the government of Kenya without the other "throw the Coalition government out" of the window" and the current coalition government won't collapse then that is a different story, But most Kenyans understand and maintain that the currently facts are neither can stay in office without the Coalition Partnership !!if they try the government collapses immediately, So you see Both leaders have the same title.. they both run the government equally and just because one of the leaders decided to get into illegal outmaneuvers doesn't make the other less of a Statesman/ head of state!! or equal partner.. I'm surprise some people can try peddling such falsehood on here! bure Kabisa..
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 23:02:28 GMT 3
R911
If Jakaswanga's intervention still did not sink, here is perhaps a simpler one.
The law provides that all matatus have speed governors and should never exceed 80 kph as the speed limit at the the extreme pain of penal punishments. Now you perhaps know that matatus do not know of such a law (it may have died with Michuki) or even if they know, they ignore it....!
Now using this analogy see if you can replicate your politicians based on the law you ride one.
If you can still argue, then we shall call help from some special school.
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 13, 2012 23:05:37 GMT 3
I like many Kenyan don't take advise or direction from Muthaura or any other Kenyans who engage themselves in scrupolous affairs of the state in disregard of the law of the land, that is called criminal.. Facts are facts, if you can proof to Kenyans that either Kibaki or Raila can run the government of Kenya without the other "throw the Coalition government out" of the window" and the current coalition government won't collapse then that is a different story, But most Kenyans understand and maintain that the currently facts are neither can stay in office without the Coalition Partnership !!if they try the government collapses immediately, So you see Both leaders have the same title.. they both run the government equally and just because one of the leaders decided to get into illegal outmaneuvers doesn't make the other less of a Statesman/ head of state!! or equal partner.. I'm surprise some people can try peddling such falsehood on here! bure Kabisa.. Reporter,Formally you are right. The parity is enshrined in the accord. And politically no one side can go it alone. But behind the scenes, they has always been a perpetual struggle. Infact if Raila were to insist on his half-loaf every moment or point, this GCG would have collapsed long ago. Like a rumour in the beginning some millitary guys refused to acknowledge him, and he could not have them sacked either! They were insurbodinate just to show how the power balance was behind the scenes!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 23:20:16 GMT 3
R911 If Jakaswanga's intervention still did not sink, here is perhaps a simpler one. The law provides that all matatus have speed governors and should never exceed 80 kph as the speed limit at the the extreme pain of penal punishments. Now you perhaps know that matatus do not know of such a law (it may have died with Michuki) or even if they know, they ignore it....! Now using this analogy see if you can replicate your politicians based on the law you ride one. If you can still argue, then we shall call help from some special school. What is simple Kamalet is to tell your man " HEAD OF STATE TO TRY DISSOLVE THE COALITION GOVERNMENT" AND TRY TO RUN THE COUNTRY BY HIMSELF BY FORCE.. that is an answer enough for kenyans to wait and see what happens if he were to carry out such actions?? no need for cheap sideline explanations or comparisons with ati matatu? jakaswanga is here as a member like everyone else with his own opinions! I guess if you need him to intervene on your behalf then that should be an agreement between you two.. don't involve me! Meanwhile Most intelligent, educated Kenyans are aware that In the current coalition government one head of State can not govern without the other !! bu those who follow blindly word I guess prefer to differ and are not interested in the law that was put in place to govern the coalition government.. You kamalet should stop arguing and read the law that governs our country clearly! instead of following wakina Muthaura & co Blindly!
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Post by kamalet on Apr 13, 2012 23:29:24 GMT 3
R911 If Jakaswanga's intervention still did not sink, here is perhaps a simpler one. The law provides that all matatus have speed governors and should never exceed 80 kph as the speed limit at the the extreme pain of penal punishments. Now you perhaps know that matatus do not know of such a law (it may have died with Michuki) or even if they know, they ignore it....! Now using this analogy see if you can replicate your politicians based on the law you ride one. If you can still argue, then we shall call help from some special school. What is simple Kamalet is to tell your man " HEAD OF STATE TO TRY DISSOLVE THE COALITION GOVERNMENT" AND TRY TO RUN THE COUNTRY BY HIMSELF BY FORCE.. that is an answer enough for kenyans to wait and see what happens if he were to carry out such actions?? no need for cheap sideline explanations or comparisons with ati matatu? jakaswanga is here as a member like everyone else with his own opinions! I guess if you need him to intervene on your behalf then that should be an agreement between you two.. don't involve me! Meanwhile Most intelligent, educated Kenyans are aware that In the current coalition government one head of State can not govern without the other !! bu those who follow blindly word I guess prefer to differ and are not interested in the law that was put in place to govern the coalition government.. You kamalet should stop arguing and read the law that governs our country clearly! instead of following wakina Muthaura & co Blindly! R911 The reason why we have toilets is so that we can go in and piss. But the presence of the toilet does not stop you from pissing outside the toilet....now go figure!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 23:39:04 GMT 3
I like many Kenyan don't take advise or direction from Muthaura or any other Kenyans who engage themselves in scrupolous affairs of the state in disregard of the law of the land, that is called criminal.. Facts are facts, if you can proof to Kenyans that either Kibaki or Raila can run the government of Kenya without the other "throw the Coalition government out" of the window" and the current coalition government won't collapse then that is a different story, But most Kenyans understand and maintain that the currently facts are neither can stay in office without the Coalition Partnership !!if they try the government collapses immediately, So you see Both leaders have the same title.. they both run the government equally and just because one of the leaders decided to get into illegal outmaneuvers doesn't make the other less of a Statesman/ head of state!! or equal partner.. I'm surprise some people can try peddling such falsehood on here! bure Kabisa.. Reporter,Formally you are right. The parity is enshrined in the accord. And politically no one side can go it alone. But behind the scenes, they has always been a perpetual struggle. Infact if Raila were to insist on his half-loaf every moment or point, this GCG would have collapsed long ago. Like a rumour in the beginning some millitary guys refused to acknowledge him, and he could not have them sacked either! They were insurbodinate just to show how the power balance was behind the scenes! My take is unless the two heads of state can govern without each other then that is another story! but the current facts are irregardless of the behind the scenes shenanigan ati army refusing to recognize Raila Kenyans will take it as rumour " spread by those who want to instill fear in the kenya citizens.. Army is a collection of many tribes" unless you can pin point who exactly in the army was refusing to recognize the PM maybe the top brass from one tribe.. otherwise most Kenyans will take it as cheap rumours from some elements in the Army who want to put fear out there so that the citizens fear that the army is only behind Kibaki which to me doesn't hogwash!! facts are Kenya under the coalition government is managed under two principals "head of state" enuff said!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 13, 2012 23:53:59 GMT 3
What is simple Kamalet is to tell your man " HEAD OF STATE TO TRY DISSOLVE THE COALITION GOVERNMENT" AND TRY TO RUN THE COUNTRY BY HIMSELF BY FORCE.. that is an answer enough for kenyans to wait and see what happens if he were to carry out such actions?? no need for cheap sideline explanations or comparisons with ati matatu? jakaswanga is here as a member like everyone else with his own opinions! I guess if you need him to intervene on your behalf then that should be an agreement between you two.. don't involve me! Meanwhile Most intelligent, educated Kenyans are aware that In the current coalition government one head of State can not govern without the other !! bu those who follow blindly word I guess prefer to differ and are not interested in the law that was put in place to govern the coalition government.. You kamalet should stop arguing and read the law that governs our country clearly! instead of following wakina Muthaura & co Blindly! R911 The reason why we have toilets is so that we can go in and piss. But the presence of the toilet does not stop you from pissing outside the toilet....now go figure! Kamalet! Most Kenyans read what is within the constitution and law entrenched in the said Constitution of kenya in regards to the current coalition partnership! did I miss something in the coalition old agreement and the News Constitution? where toilets and pissing are mentioned? You see when people try to use strange analogies to try to get out of a legal documents or law then something somewhere is very wrong.. that is why the New constitution is somewhat a blessing no more of Muthaura & Co strange analogies that there is one head of State and some poor souls believe him while they use all the illegal apparatus to undermine the joint coalition agreement!! convincing themselves that they are above the law are no longer valid (that is why some are heading right to the HAGUE) .....on the bright side The education given to Kenyans BEFORE DURING AND AFTER THE LAUNCH OF THE NEW CONSTITUTION was excellent!! These days Kenyans don't just listen to people like Muthaura gums moving and believe them ;D no such luck!!
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Post by morimax on Apr 14, 2012 6:55:18 GMT 3
What is simple Kamalet is to tell your man " HEAD OF STATE TO TRY DISSOLVE THE COALITION GOVERNMENT" AND TRY TO RUN THE COUNTRY BY HIMSELF BY FORCE.. that is an answer enough for kenyans to wait and see what happens if he were to carry out such actions?? no need for cheap sideline explanations or comparisons with ati matatu? jakaswanga is here as a member like everyone else with his own opinions! I guess if you need him to intervene on your behalf then that should be an agreement between you two.. don't involve me! Meanwhile Most intelligent, educated Kenyans are aware that In the current coalition government one head of State can not govern without the other !! bu those who follow blindly word I guess prefer to differ and are not interested in the law that was put in place to govern the coalition government.. You kamalet should stop arguing and read the law that governs our country clearly! instead of following wakina Muthaura & co Blindly! R911 The reason why we have toilets is so that we can go in and piss. But the presence of the toilet does not stop you from pissing outside the toilet....now go figure! Kamaletand then you are happy with someone who doesn't want to live and lead by the laws of the land. Would I be wrong to say that you are in the class of people who encourage impunity?, and may be because it is your preferred man or rather you practising it?
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 14, 2012 10:14:33 GMT 3
R911 The reason why we have toilets is so that we can go in and piss. But the presence of the toilet does not stop you from pissing outside the toilet....now go figure! Kamaletand then you are happy with someone who doesn't want to live and lead by the laws of the land. Would I be wrong to say that you are in the class of people who encourage impunity?, and may be because it is your preferred man or rather you practising it? Morimax,When someone I assume is capable of reading and understanding a simple and straightforward document such as the NARA can read it and then come here to argue that the reason why Kibaki has 200 security agents protecting him while Raila only has 60 is because "one is the president, head of state and head of government whilst the other is only a prefect in that government." you immediately must wonder whether the problem is our education system or our people. I tend to think our people and how they simply refuse to see truth and facts and chose to believe on that which in their view advances their narrow and undoubtedly tribal views--I doubt interests because those who have interests to protect are always mum, preferring those without to do the bidding for them. On the other hand, the exchange between Reporter and Jakaswanga is interesting because they are both right. Reporter is right and factually correct that the coalition is de jure an equal partnership, which simply means theoretically both partners are supposed to share and exercise power equally. We know that this has not been the case since day one and will never be to the last day and thus the reason Jakaswanga is right and factually correct in noting there has always been and continues to be a power struggle not necessarily behind the scenes as he suggests but, openly. I recall talking to someone involved in the negotiations a day after the deal was signed and telling him this looks great on paper but putting it to practice would require Raila drawing from every source of energy and creative ingenuity he can muster and communicating the same to Raila. Say what anyone can, and Jakaswanga has alluded to this, Raila has done a masterful job of not only keeping the coalition alive, but also in a manner that has enhanced his political capital and acumen. Yes, were Raila to be like any mediocre leader such as Uhuru or Ruto, he would have thrown in the towel out of frustration long ago, especially in the early months when the PNU clique was doing everything to frustrate or make him irrelevant, which would not have been wise because he would have ended up being even more irrelevant as we know because Kibaki would have continued on as if he never left mupende msipende. Instead, Raila chose a path which has put him where he is and that is, outmaneuvering the Muthauras at every turn, using public leverage where he could, or his own sway with Kibaki where he could and in time, such a clever strategizing always pays dividends in terms of adding power and influence. This attitude you see people here calling Raila a "prefect" is precisely what Raila confronted and defeated much earlier on in the coalition government and is part reason why he wins hands down who is the cleverest and most strategically effective Kenyan leader we have today; just when you think you have him cornered, he emerges from another corner even stronger than you thought. We are almost at the end of the coalition and much an excellent job Raila has done in increasing strengthening his position as PM, he is far from being near the 50-50 parity envisioned in NARA. Reporter is right, though, that Kibaki could not govern alone without Raila absent a break-up of the coalition and he did so by force. But, be that as it may be, and even if one were to buy the ridiculous postulation (its not even an argument) that Raila is a "prefect," there is no justification for having such a disparity in the protection of these two men such that Kibaki has 200 agents while until recently Raila only had 50, which was "boosted" to a paltry 60 in comparison. Mank says to him both coverage is excessive with one being more extreme but I beg to differ. Having 60 agents protecting a prime minister is not excessive at all. Having 200 to protect the president with other unnamed numbers on stand-by is both excessive and financially draining, especially given the wasteful government spending that must be reined in. But that aside, 200 v 60? Couldn't someone say, okay, let's at least make it 200 v 100 and when asked to account to simply confuse people by saying this is a 50-50 coalition government so Raila gets half of the president's? Simply amazing but soon all these in your face excesses will be in the past as well.
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 14, 2012 15:45:03 GMT 3
. Mank says to him both coverage is excessive with one being more extreme but I beg to differ. Having 60 agents protecting a prime minister is not excessive at all. Omwami Omwenga,Sometimes I love to have a comparative eye, just to have an idea where my own country is! [wuothi eka ine, is how the Luos put it, meaning take a look around the world and see]. So I put it to a Scandinavian fellow that my PM needs 60, and that is peanuts compared to the president. So this guy tells me even after the murder of Olof Palme, the taxpayers are not yet convinced the PM needs more than 2 bodyguards! So I told him in my country we have Al-shabaab and the rest! No, he told me: you carry out social and economic policies which exercerbate political conflict in your countries. Your leaders carry out war on the population. And that is why they need that level of protection --from the people they lead! It is a view worth thinking about, especially when I recognize that for 40 years, the Syrian army was declared on the frontline against the zionist landgrabber and enemy of the great Arab people. But now, we know the Syrian army was always to terrorize the Syrians, and prevent them from overthrowing their own dictator! --Israel was never the guy they were meant to fight!
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Post by mank on Apr 14, 2012 17:39:47 GMT 3
Omwenga, Jakaswanga, Kamale, Reporter and Morimax
Perhaps we should be asking how these security numbers are decided upon, and by whom. You see, the fact that one has 200+ security men while the other has only 60 (after an upgrade), makes it clear that Kamale and Jakaswanga have a point - the equality is theoretical. Practicals reflect wide inequality.
That thought immediately brings back memory of Raila complaining about rights to mikeka and portable toilets. I never hear Kibaki having that kind of problem. So, where are distribution rights allocated, by whom, and based on what considerations? I think those are the potentially helpful questions.
It is a total waste of time, and an affront to the acclaimed esteem of Jukwaa, for anyone to keep addressing any other Jukwaa member as if the latter were the allocation officer between Kibaki and Raila. I suggest people should address the issues, not look for others to make the issues.
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 14, 2012 19:22:12 GMT 3
Omwenga, Jakaswanga, Kamale, Reporter and MorimaxPerhaps we should be asking how these security numbers are decided upon, and by whom. You see, the fact that one has 200+ security men while the other has only 60 (after an upgrade), makes it clear that Kamale and Jakaswanga have a point - the equality is theoretical. Practicals reflect wide inequality. That thought immediately brings back memory of Raila complaining about rights to mikeka and portable toilets. I never hear Kibaki having that kind of problem. So, where are distribution rights allocated, by whom, and based on what considerations? I think those are the potentially helpful questions. It is a total waste of time, and an affront to the acclaimed esteem of Jukwaa, for anyone to keep addressing any other Jukwaa member as if the latter were the allocation officer between Kibaki and Raila. I suggest people should address the issues, not look for others to make the issues. The post was an open topic for any Jukwaa member to state their opinion in regards to 200 security unit service versus 60 security units between the Two heads of state in the current Coalition government . The other issue mentioned was about one being prefect and other other Head of State! as a jukwaa Member I gave my opinion on both issues.. other jukwaa members were free to do likewise including yourself!!I don't see it being a waste of time for Jukwaa members to state their opinions on any topic or subject posted here b other members... No one here has a right to police other members on any topic, by stating who is right or wrong on any topic.. we are here to state our own opinions while discussing issues that affect Kenya good or bad. I careless whether Kibaki or Raila have unbalanced security forces. The facts remain "a COALITION GOVERNMENT WAS FORMED AND GIVEN A MANDATE TO RUN THE COUNTRY" if either of of the coalition partners decide to walk away from the Coalition it will collapse immediately and elections will be called. Facts are There are Two heads of States no matter what others would like to spin I call it ignorance in regards to the First coalition agreement and the current agreement under the New Constitution!
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Post by mank on Apr 15, 2012 1:29:31 GMT 3
R911, I did not try to police you, or tell you what is right or wrong. I am not sure where you get that from. I just added my opinions just like you added yours. Why is that a problem to you? Now, regarding your opinions, it seems to me that the main point you want to be heard on is: The facts remain "a COALITION GOVERNMENT WAS FORMED AND GIVEN A MANDATE TO RUN THE COUNTRY" if either of of the coalition partners decide to walk away from the Coalition it will collapse immediately and elections will be called. Assuming that to be fact, so what? How does that address the 200 to 60 security guards issue? Oops, on reading your protest again I see that you said you care less whether Raila and Kibaki have unbalanced security. Yet to start the same protest you state: The post was an open topic for any Jukwaa member to state their opinion in regards to 200 security unit service versus 60 security units between the Two heads of state in the current Coalition government . ... So right at the start of your protest you identify unbalanced security as the issue that was being responded to, then you state you cannot care less about it. Why did you respond to an issue you cannot care less about? That's how you get yourself posting long and incoherent stuff.
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 15, 2012 2:21:30 GMT 3
. Mank says to him both coverage is excessive with one being more extreme but I beg to differ. Having 60 agents protecting a prime minister is not excessive at all. Omwami Omwenga,Sometimes I love to have a comparative eye, just to have an idea where my own country is! [wuothi eka ine, is how the Luos put it, meaning take a look around the world and see]. So I put it to a Scandinavian fellow that my PM needs 60, and that is peanuts compared to the president. So this guy tells me even after the murder of Olof Palme, the taxpayers are not yet convinced the PM needs more than 2 bodyguards! So I told him in my country we have Al-shabaab and the rest! No, he told me: you carry out social and economic policies which exercerbate political conflict in your countries. Your leaders carry out war on the population. And that is why they need that level of protection --from the people they lead! It is a view worth thinking about, especially when I recognize that for 40 years, the Syrian army was declared on the frontline against the zionist landgrabber and enemy of the great Arab people. But now, we know the Syrian army was always to terrorize the Syrians, and prevent them from overthrowing their own dictator! --Israel was never the guy they were meant to fight! Ndugu Jakaswanga,
I hear what you are saying about the assassination of Olof and the aftermath but I doubt the security is as lax as your friend tells you; Olof was assassinated because he falsely believed being a good socialist is good enough security but that a falsity. It doesn't matter how good one is as a leader, there is always one nut out there who would love to put a bullet through his or her body or otherwise do some harm to him or her. It is also not true that leaders need protection from its civilians per se; rather, their political rivals are first in line in wanting to eliminate them and the converse is also true and the latter is often the case in terms of success. Having said that, comparing security for African leaders and the rest of the world is akin to comparing apples and oranges. When Ronald Reagan made a state visit to France in June 1982 with his own small army of security accorded a US president, complete with two presidential limos that go with them wherever they go, he was met by the late French president Francois Mitterrand who showed him to his private car nearby and proceeded to drive it himself. You can imagine the shock, let alone the anxiety among Secret Service who had never seen anything like a president driving himself--but one can assume they may have been given a heads up the dude didn't bother much with drivers and security. Now, that's rare anywhere.
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