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Post by omundu on Apr 14, 2011 18:09:54 GMT 3
Owuor, Henrygicha"ber" LOL, et al. We have, over time enjoyed the wealth of knowledge in current affairs that Jukwaa feeds us. A vast lot in here are well read people and really have no time and find it irritating when their brief daily sojourn through jukwaa is hindered by bits and pieces of juvenile, unresearched and pathetic posts.
I recall a time in school when students would write articles, reports, thesis etc and at the back page you list your sources of info. Any report or thesis normally would show what the writer sees as the problem then offer his opinion on solutions to the issues in the thesis. I am not pointing fingers or stating that one is more learned than the other, i am merely stating the level and standard of debate that most members of jukwaa are used to.
My experience in blogs (little as it may be) has taught me to read someones intentions from their posts; you can read someones good intent for the country from his post, you can see wether its well researched and warrants further attention or wether its plain propaganda and character assasination.
An example would be you and Henry. Most of the blabber you lot post here have been discussed at length in previous posts since Jukwaa's birth. They even get recycled every five years when the election year approaches. To help you guys out with your pressing need to get answers to the questions you raise, i suggest you take your time to go through the history of Jukwaas posts, look for a thread aptly titled, read through it and if you still have that nagging feel that your answers havnt been met, post on it and continue with the thread instead of hijacking other threads.
It leaves me wondering sometimes wether any of you guys even read the answers you are given to the posts you hijack a thread with? An example would be phils and others answers to Henry above. I would deem them satisfactory answers, but it seems you guys ignore them and continue with baseless ramifications. This leads me to the paragraph below;
Owuor, you claim that Raila is all talk and no action. Well, he was there with Biden amongst other notables in the political world. Are they also talk and no action? Further, the AU meets regularly for talks on policies e.t.c The UN, Arab league, NATO, kenyan cabinet meet oft to give direction on policies that affect current affairs in the country. You also (i hope) have company meetings and family meetings, Your wife/girlfriends sometimes call you with the dreaded words, " we need to talk". What are you trying to tell people here. Its inherent in humanity that talking is a key ingredient in solving our problems. We all know the history of coalition Governments and the hostile nature of the kenyan coalition situation. With that knowledge its easy to deduce how hard it is for the policies one coalition partner "talks" about to be implemented.
Wouldnt it be nice if you guys offered your opinions (well researched)on a better way (than what Raila/ODM gives )to advance the Nations interests than just merely posting what you deem is wrong with the aforementioned characters.
We used to have a poster in our living room in South B that had two monkeys sitting on a dinner table having breakfast . Below the image was a caption that read; "are you here with a solution or are you part of the problem"
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Post by omundu on Mar 21, 2011 2:48:12 GMT 3
TNk and boyengo. I willhave to get back to you on that one.
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Post by omundu on Mar 21, 2011 0:18:27 GMT 3
Ashante sana bwana Titchaz na Mzee.
And indeed, I am Kenyan and if pushed, would not deny my Bukusu heritage and maybe even relation to some people mentioned here in Jukwaa.
I am sorry gema gema, They are actually Ba sabaoti(who are Nilotes and actually Kales or Elgon massai but coz of intermarriages we have refered to them as ‘Baengele’ or basakha as a clan(my mistake, writing in a rush, I had to make a few phone calls) What I earlier reffered to as Tachonis are what I thought of as a name they are given to because of the way they do their circumcision rites(the whole fighting with leopards etc) circumcision group that they also belong to (its hard translating it in English but the name still escapes me, will post it after a few phone calls) But still I am 100% sure that the Basabaoti (baengele)are a clan of Bukusus that have intermarried with the Kales. (note that I am translating some words from the Bukusu language) Very sorry on that.
Before I proceed, I wish to reiterate that by my post here does not mean that I follow the tribal semantics in politics .I am of issue based politics and I just state what I see and hear happening within the region I write about, which will surprise many who think its about “because he stems from our tribe,thus he has our votes”
Gema gema, I will not deny that you raise some valid points but in the same vein you miss out on a few points that may help you get a better judgement of the scenario on the ground in Luhya land, especially amongst the Bukusus.
The most important is that the Luhyas consist of subtribes. Amongst the subtribes e.g Maragoli (mudavadi) you get various clans. One of the subtribes are the Bukusus. The Bukusus comprise of close to fourty percent of the Luhyas (not entirely sure of the proper figures but they are the majority)
The Bukusus normally feel (rightly or wrongly) that their cultural inclinations and practices define the proper way a Luhya should be (In layman’s terms, they feel they are the true Luhyas ). If you are versed in social sciences, you will see how this translates in the political field. The point above is actually the origin of the Bukusus (being the biggest subtribe of the Luhyas) tendency to vote differently from their neighbouring brother and sister subtribes. With the above background, I wish to engage gemagema and state that indeed, you do raise some valid points but you still have to revisit and research more on other points you raised:
- You state that Eugene is receiving funds from the KK alliance which is true and he also has received even a greater chunk from some western powers, though some sources have dried up because of some current developments.
- The Maina Njenga angle you raised is true but tied to the point above, that angle has also gone quiet because the funders realised they made a mistake because of some current developments and also they realised that the project would actually take longer than they thought (I suspect due to their little understanding of Kenyan politics) . Also, on Eugenes part, the Maina Njenga angle is DOA in Bukusu land. It failed before it started and he knew that but hey, money is money.
- Tied to the above is a point you raised about politicians being funded but reading between your lines you will realise that time is a factor. The politician has to grind the annals of time and “make his name” before he even becomes a household name amongst his community. Now that’s where the problem comes, Eugene, like Ruto is at one of those crossroads where he had to pick left (the easy way) or right (the hard way). We all know the rest and where the roads they picked are leading. Trust me, the elders and people in the rural areas also read papers, listen to the radios and talk to each other while sipping on kamalwa with the lusekhe so they know what’s happening.
- In light of the above, people can already see where the Bukusu politicians have brought us from and where they are taking us. They can see through the smokescreen of selfishness and personal gain espoused by our politicians. They are talks and actions relating to the practices of washing off the sins created by associating with people who have shed blood (ford K and PNU 2007). They call it kumusambwa.
- Like political maniac always says, the overtone window has shifted. People have realised that it is about what they can gain from policies that a party espouses. We have Nzoia sugar company that if not being run down and farmers not getting paid for their sugar harvests, the profits are taken elsewhere. They have Trans Nzoia and the schemes (the bread basket of the country) whose profits get channelled elsewhere. They have milk producing cows with proceeds heading elsewhere. They have the fact that they are a district with close proximity to the Ugandan border but no politician or government sees any direction on how to better enhance the situation to their gain. They have seen the airstrip by the junction approaching Bungoma town run down with potholes without a single plane landing for years while agricultural produce goes to waste in the farms.
- I remember during the referendum campaigns when everywhere Eugene stopped by, be it Bungoma town, Kanduyi , Kibabii or Kitale, he had people telling him that its in their interests that the new constitution comes through with the main reason being devolution. He had elders even coming to his homestead explaining to him how the constitution will help the people. Now Bungoma is a county in itself and the people have a chance to chart their furtures and their childrens futures. Now you tell us that the same people are unable to see the game being played by the No group and watermelons Uhuru and Ruto?
- Another point where you need more research is the fact that people voted for wetangula coz of his financial clout. I will ask you a question; mention any Bukusu politician with money to the extent of the Rutos et al? Weatngula has money yes, but just to the level of several Bukusu businessmen and professionals. He doesn’t have that much money to throw around. Another point you fail to realise is that with the bukusus, money does not really get you the vote. People may eat your money and go vote elsewhere. Case in point Bifwoli who came from a P2 teacher to an MP. We have campaigned in Bungoma and thrown money around and seen kina Kombo in Ewebuye throw around PNU money but still get defeated. Research on the Bungoma professional club and therein lies the channel of Wetangulas election as chairman.
To pen off. I am not entirely sure about Railas popularity in Bungoma in relation to Mudamba junior (havent researched yet)but he is quite popular. I can bet you its not because he is Raila but because of the ideals he and the party espouses. (unedited)
Ok, you still state that Maragolis are the largest. Just reseach on that and trust me i will admit it when you prove me wrong.
On your question, My Mp is Bifwoli wakoli. It is something i am often embarrased to say but hey, he got the votes. Our clan spans from Sirisia down the road through Kanduyi all the way to Bumula.
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Post by omundu on Mar 20, 2011 13:37:13 GMT 3
Bungoma/ Bukusu politics is murkier than many here tend to think. The last Bukusu politician to be voted almost to a tee by Bukusus was Eugenes brother. People loved him, not just because he was Bukusu but his apparent mature approach to politics. He also grew into those shoes over time. People on the ground are finding it hard to identify, in Eugene, the qualities they saw in Wamalwa snr.
Job also raises an important point, and that is clanisim amongst the Luhya, Eugene is Tachoni and they have close ties (intermarriages ect) with the kalenjin neighbours but that did not help in the post election violence when there were pockets of attacks by kalenjin militia amongst their luhya neighbours mostly the Tachoni (it is still a big thing amongst the luhya where even three years later elders are finding it hard reconciling families). There are various other clans amongst the Bukusu e.g the baserema, bakimweyi e.t.c and the tachonis comprise of roughly ten percent of Bukusus. The other clans have their representatives like Wetangula, even Bifwoli holds a bit of clout.
The point i am trying to arrive at is, with the (in my opinion) demise of Ford Kenya or defrangmented nature it is in, exercebeted also by clanism, Bukusus lack a proper tool (party) they had in 2007.There are even talks of many politicians we are mentioning here defecting to ODM pre 2012. There is no clear leader amongst the Bukusu but in the hierachy, Eugene is not number one. (that i guarrantee you).
The only way, Eugene will rise to prominance amongst the Bukusus is if the KK give him the mantle as presidential candidate. Bukusus on the ground are very very tired of being used and dumped while their neighbours e.g the Samia, wanga, teso vote almost to a tee for one party. You may not be hearing the noises in the media but Mudavadi's clout has increased amongst the Bukusu. Were it not for the rigging by amongst others, wetangula (who is one of the people likely to defect using Ford K) 2007 would have shown a clearer picture of what is going on in the ground.
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Post by omundu on Jun 16, 2010 14:10:33 GMT 3
Mykenyan. Your theory on kenya being an artificial nation held tpgether by glue holds no water. Take, for example, major cities and towns in Kenya where different communities live together as neighbour without shida (even intermarrying).
Kenyans themselves dont mind. It is the politicians who incite and push us into barbaric acts. You should only ask yourself why all these trash talk and bloodletting happen during election periods? why do kenyans coexist peacefully until election time.
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Post by omundu on Mar 11, 2010 16:54:16 GMT 3
When the scandal broke out, i nitially recated by also thinking that Mudavadi step down pending further investigations. This is because i thought that he did not do his job as a the minister concerned regarding this matter.
my realization later on that Mudavadi had actually acted upon receipt of the news of the scandal and had informed relevant authorities absolved him in my books. He did his job, my question to Kamale and others is, in your opinion, given all the facts we have about the issue from since the scandal was hatched in early 2008 till now, would you have expected Musalia to act differently from how he did ?
Please enlighten me on how differently you would have acted were you in his shoes. (given the facts that we have so far)
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Post by omundu on Mar 9, 2010 13:34:43 GMT 3
THE WISE ADVICE PEOPLE TO SHUN DEGENERATIVE ARGUEMENTS . SUCH INSULTARGUEMENTS INEVITABLY RECOIL AGAINST ITS USERS.
Nereah, i hear you, and that was in response to my thread on Railas wealth. It is not the first time it has happened and i remember the fella got a warning last time it happened.
This is my take on the issue...
Jukwaa has always been forum where civilised heads present their arguements in a gentlemanly/lady manner. I also like reading Kamales thoughts even though they may be contrary to my views. I think he has a sense of decorum in his presentations.
My opinion is that Jukwaa has been infliltrated by elements who have very clear goals; Their game plan is, first to start post threads with baseless arguments, when found out they proceed to create double handles ( witnessed by the sudden flurry of new handles)
They then degenerate specific threads by namecalling, threats and insults. This serves to heighten emotions in Jukwaa leaving posters not thinking rationally. Eventually intelligent, level headed discussions wear off and the site decays. ( like oloo said before, various people, including policy makers visit this here Jukwaa. Put two and two together).
Freedom of speech allows us to say whatever we have to say to whomever. There is a saying that every market has its madmen. The secret is in the approach, your interaction with the village madmen is different from your interaction with whomever society deems of sound mind.
My take is any member can reply to a valid and civil post and just ignore ugly, degenerative arguements. Eventually by natural selection, they will wean (sp) themselves out.
A wise man once said " shout your wrathful thoughts into the valley. If only your bitter echo returns, what more can you expect from your fellows? "
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Post by omundu on Mar 9, 2010 12:30:07 GMT 3
This recycled hogwash about Raila and his 'ill gotten' wealth has been going on for years. I remember reading a thread where Adongo stated that if indeed the wealth was ill gotten, dont you think 'mount kenya mafias' controlled KACC and courts would have gleefully jumped on it and hauled his ass to the slumber?
Just food for thought...
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Post by omundu on Feb 26, 2010 13:47:02 GMT 3
Better yet, what did wananchi, including you, gain from the that? I would like to hear what you say when the game plan eventually unfolds ( about the LGB issue) Remeber Raila still has say in whomever is appointed as LGB. But then again, i reiterate, it should not really be about individuals. I would be stisfied seeing a progressive minded person in that position.
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Post by omundu on Feb 26, 2010 13:37:33 GMT 3
Emkei.
You say ..
"Ruto through remote control asserted himself and had enough votes to paralyse parliament for a day even though he was busy addressing a mammoth crowd of mesmerised Luo youths in Kisumu"
And what did he gain from that?
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Post by omundu on Jan 23, 2010 4:01:39 GMT 3
The headline of this post was about miguna and his contribution, or not, to the civil service. I feel that it has divulged from its basic tenet and has been dragged into a tribal and lingual discussion. ( not my forte)
That said, Sadiq, i personally, would hold my hand up and state that i happen to have a surname that is shared with the talked about Wafula. But that doesnt mean that i will blindly say "aye" to whatever he or she states and take it as biblical truth. I have my own opinions to the communique he penned on Miguna and i still believe that such emotional rants were unwarrabted irregardless of his tribal or clan closeness to me. ( same applies to Wakoli, Wetangula, Wamalwa e.t.c)
We are just trying to have rational discussions here Sadique, without judging the basis of ones rationale to his tribal grouping... I have a lot more to say, but i digress, lest i drag this discussion into a direction i not intend.
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Post by omundu on Jan 22, 2010 16:50:40 GMT 3
So sadik. Are you implying that people who frequent and comment on this here Jukwaa are of a certain ethnic group? what a laugh. And if so, does that include you.
Are you trying to say that whenever people think or ration in a certain way, they have to have come from a specific ethnic grouping? Help me out Sadiq. I am struggling to understand you.
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Post by omundu on Dec 18, 2009 18:12:59 GMT 3
Miguna (in my opinion) just stated facts that have also previously been repeated on this forum. The message is really what matters and not the messenger, wether stated by my grandmother, or Raila himself. It doesnt make the message any less true.
That said, it was a good political move by Miguna (wether acting on his capacity as the PM's advisor or not) putting the above in a public forum instead of shouting himself hoarse in some tribal fm station. I believe this article reflects the thinking in ODM and could not have been written without the blessings of the heirachy.count it as a self preservation excersise. ( i can state examples all over the world including the ANC that uses Julius Malema to do the "dirty work")
I believe its an invitation by Miguna to engage Ruto intellectually in a public domain by enticing him to submit his reply and prove his worthiness.
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Post by omundu on Dec 2, 2009 11:06:31 GMT 3
Pablo. You hit the nail on the head.
We always keep hearing Raila use the term "tsunami" I think it implies that the political minds of kenyans has changed drastically. A lot of kenyans are well informed of whats happening in their country.
Historians in future will probably name this period the post 07 paradigm and write on how the political thinking in the country took a different shift towards rationality ( trying to look for a better word). It is (in my opinion) the public mood and pressure even from their own constituents that made those politicians beat a hasty retreat .
Well, some politicians like Raila are way ahead of the pack by realising this very early but some are still caught in the past. Thinking that wananchi will always follow their word like blind sheep.
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Post by omundu on Nov 17, 2009 11:33:24 GMT 3
To reiterate the above, one can only read malice in the RV mps words when they lay the blame squarely on Railas shoulders leaving out other relevant ministries. They have reverted to PNU's campaighn tactics of mudslinging Raila. The concerted and heavily funded efforts did not work in 2007. What makes them think it will work now? Kenyans are not fools.
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Post by omundu on Nov 17, 2009 11:28:06 GMT 3
I wouldnt have said it better, Johns. Raila can only do what he is humanly capable of doing. I dont think Mau is the only duty on his agenda as PM.
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Post by omundu on Sept 11, 2009 14:01:18 GMT 3
Kamale. Honestly just re-read what you have written and ponder over it to see if you yourself belive it.
Marende's ruling (and he even states it himself in the nine page ruling) is based in (major) part on the seperation of powers. In my opinion he has set a precedent and a major milestone towards that.
His words ..." it would probably itself be an affront on the principle of separation of powers if an arm of Gova were to take such a view of another arm"...
..." were members to allow that ( sub judice) to happen, then it meant that any person who is apprehensive about any action likely to be taken by the house would then rush to court and thereby gagging it from deliberating on the matter"...
Honestly Kamale, i do not understand law but i still get what the speaker intends. You should too instead of basing Marende's legal grasp, or lack of, to his past( clients with money or without money).
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Post by omundu on Sept 8, 2009 19:53:53 GMT 3
As job put it. Kweli Muthaura is back. I dont know about you guys, but as tnk and the rest mentioned earlier, i am taking a seat with my bowl of popcorn watching events unfold.
I am surprised that people still get shocked with Kibakis antics. I realized a while ago that there is no zenith to what these people can and will do. I suggest we patiently await ODM, parliamentarians and the PM's response. There is probably more than meets the eye.
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Post by omundu on Aug 27, 2009 11:00:53 GMT 3
PASS THE DUTCHIE
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Post by omundu on Aug 24, 2009 11:27:28 GMT 3
Very troubling indeed. It cuts deep when the mp's say that they welcome Kibaki anytime but Raila should only go when its developement related issues. There is a saying where i come from that if you throw a stone amongst a pack of dogs, the one that yelps the loudest is the one that has been hit.
Its funny how African leaders retreat to their tribal cocoons once they smell trouble. The question should be; whats making these people so scared? to even contemplate taking "their people" back into the arms of the very monsters who caused so much pain barely two years ago. And for what? MAU. In my opinion Mau is not the issue with these people. It goes deeper than that.
Like it has been mentioned before, i also smell MOI's and some PNU operatives hand in all this hullabaloo. Of late, the standards headlines have been about the wedge between Ruto and Raila widening. There is more than meets the eye i say.
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Post by omundu on Aug 14, 2009 13:43:22 GMT 3
Its funny how hapharzard kenyan leaders deal with issues. First of all, who is providing the funding for such projects. There was never any tender advertised in the papers concerning this development.
For someone who is in a proffesion that deals with such developements, i smell a rat. The images displayed are not even up to standard and if the project was a design competition in the begining ( like all major cities do) we would not have had a presentation as shoddy as i have seen on the site.( it looks like a photoshoped cut and paste thing). Such projects are initiated by studies and reports done by professionals. The reports are then used to source funding and if possible break down the project into phases. Professional companies are thereafter sourt publicly by various mean e.g open design competitions.
Yes adongo, there is the metropolitan developement ministry that is meant to handle such issues but the main player should be the Nairobi city council who apart from initiating such a project, are meant to provide guidance on sustainable systems that will ensure 'constant' maintenance of the various public spaces we have in the city. Otherwise we will end up back to square one a year down the road.
So it looks like their 'case study' trips around cities of this world was just for the aesthetics( ooh , that looks good) instead of looking at the systems put in place and how they operate. Thats what happens when you let politicians do a professionals job.
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Post by omundu on Aug 4, 2009 17:17:50 GMT 3
You tube link to hilites of the event.
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Post by omundu on Jul 27, 2009 9:53:46 GMT 3
My heart sinks when i read the article, especially the fact that we have been rated fourteenth out of twenty countries considered in the "critical" category in the failed states index.
The author gives a hint on the root cause of the problems when he gives, in my opinion, two key issues linked to the presence of al qaeda/ al shabaab in this here our country: - "groups from Somalia taking advantage of the growing lawlessness in Kenya" - "corruption, with Kenya ( once considered to be a proud EA star) is now on its knees"
My feeling is we are yet to scratch the surface when analysing and dealing with the ramifications of the post 2002 Government. Both in a Domestic and foreign front.
Like someone said in Jukwaa a while back; Kenya will never be the same again...
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Post by omundu on Jul 24, 2009 16:02:13 GMT 3
Sam fan thomas
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Post by omundu on Jul 24, 2009 15:22:19 GMT 3
I dont know if anyone has posted this song but it brings wonderful memories.
Kibe zangalewa
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