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Post by savekenya011 on Aug 1, 2012 0:39:07 GMT 3
From Miguna in Canada: Two questions for Adongo and Job:1. Could you please post, side-by-side, the so-called sexist statements I made about Sarah Elderkin, which you claim falsely that I have removed? (Be reminded that the original story Oloo posted has been published in the Star unedited and unchanged.) 2. Adongo, you know very well that Sarah has been lying about everything, but more profoundly about the Presidential speech in 2007, the Minnesota and Denver speeches. You have been boasting on Jukwaa on how you worked on those speeches. I still have my old email correspondence with you and Sarah. I have retained all versions and copies of the draft speeches and the final ones because I PRINCIPALLY prepared them. Can you come clean on this issue? 3. Other than that, you both should know that my rebuttal was intended for publication in the Kenyan newspapers. In fact, I only forwarded to Oloo what I had already submitted to the newspapers. After I had done that, I came across a new piece Sarah published in the Star and the exclusive interview Raila Odinga had with the Sunday Nation. My original rebuttal was prepared on Saturday. I subsequently did the editorial work and abridged it, primarily to respond to Raila and Sarah. You can both continue to delude yourselves that I was responding to your comments in Jukwaa. I rarely read them nowadays, unless someone sends specific ones to me. So, rest easy. You are the least of my concerns. To Adongo specifically: you know I have all our email exchanges, which contradict everything you have been pontificating on in Jukwaa. To me, you have become a despicable character; one who cares more about the fact that Raila is a neighbour in Sakwa, Bondo, than the numerous issues I have raised with you before and are accurately contained in my book. I will not respond to either of you again. Good Bye. First off, I would like to ask: "OO, doesnt Miguna have his own handle on Jukwa? I have noticed for the last couple of months that whenever any post from Miguna is put up on the board, it is always through the administrator's handle (OO). Does this mean he, MM has the admin's log in credentials? what does that say about the "privacy" of members' information "getting into the wrong hands" or appearing somewhere in say, "Peeling Back The Mask II"?If however the actual postings are ALWAYS done by the administrator himself (In this case OO) dont you think being such a "messenger" may probably bias your functioning as the admin of this board who has to referee between opposing view points? My second issue is directed specifically to MM. Janyando, I have quoted your response here just to say that THIS IS REALLY CHILDISH! Like a child who is engaging another child when he is confronted with retorts of something like "Si ni wewe ulianza!" or "si nani alifanya hivi alufu nami pia nikafanya hivi kwa hivyo umlaumu yeye"! " Seriously, those of us, or should i speak for myself and say "I" had started to believe that in there somewhere, in the midst of all these "hullaballo" there must be something sensible that MM is trying to put across to us kenyans. But alas, you dissappoint me! (And i believe those around me with whom i somewhat manged to convince to look at this whole peeling the mask saga with fresh unbiased and untainted lenses!  MM, Is it possibly for you to conduct yourself proffesionaly and ENGAGE and respond NOT REACT to critics and reviewers of your book with some level of proffesionalism? Think about it.Dont even respond to me. Think about it and respond to yourself. And before you rubbish me as inconsequential, allow me to do the honours for you. I am as inconsequential to your life, as "Peeling Back the Mask" is inconsiquential to that kenyan in the grassroots whose main concern is how to feed his hungry children and keep them in school while being the real man for his wife and family. Miguna, you can indeed conduct yourself better. Try it. You wont loose anything. |
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Post by b6k on Aug 1, 2012 0:42:10 GMT 3
R911, sometimes it helps to do a little research on something before you decide to take a hardline position on it. Even staff employed on a temporary basis (what you refer to as "month to month" contracts) enjoy rights similar to a permanent worker after a couple of months on a particular job. The only people you can sack on a dime as it were, at the end of a working day are casual labourers who are employed on a daily basis (24 hour cycle). Going by your definition, Miguna was at worst, a temporary worker, but by dint of being on the job for almost 4 years he would definitely have enjoyed the rights of a permanent worker. As to the mode of of his termination, what the labour court will have to determine was whether it was lawful or unlawful termination. I posit to you that it was UNLAWFUL. He was sacked for some unspecified misconduct. Labour laws are clear on how an employer has to prove the misconduct to the employee BEFORE he sacks him. Assuming as you have said he was a temporary worker, it would therefore follow that he ought to have been given, at the very least, a notice period that was similar to his payment cycle, ie one month. To read more on labour laws I suggest you check out the following link: www.mywage.org/kenya/home/labour-laws/termination-of-a-contractTo highlight sections of the termination page that are relevant to Miguna (I suggest you visit the link to get a full picture of the law): "Termination of employment can be initiated by either of the parties to a contract of employment (Employment Act, section 35 (1)). Lawful termination of employment under common law includes: Termination of employment by an employer: An employer may also terminate the employment of an employee but there is a need to comply with the provisions of the law and contract relating to termination. On what grounds can a contract of employment be terminated by an employer? By the employer on the basis of misconduct of employee (Employment Act, section 44 (3)) What must an employer do if he or she wants to terminate a contract of employment? A contract of employment may be terminated at any time by an employer who must give the employee a period of notice of termination (e.g. at close of day in case of contract for daily wages, one month or more in case of monthly pay contracts). What form of notice should an employer give a worker when terminating employment? A termination notice shall be in writing. In case the employee does not understand the notice, the employer is responsible to ensure that the notice is explained orally to the worker in a language he/she understands (section 35 (2) (3)). If the employee is employed on a daily wage contract, the notice is given at the close of any day without notice. Can an employer terminate an employee immediately without allowing them to work during the notice period? Does the law allow this? In event the employer wants to terminate an employee without allowing her/him to serve the notice period the employer will be required to pay the employee the amount that an employee would have received if she/he had worked during the notice period. This is what is usually referred to as payment in lieu of notice (section 36) also (section 38). Section 36 provides for payment of equivalent salary in lieu of notice instead of serving the notice. The length of notice will depend on the interval at which salary is paid. What happens if an employee is terminated but they have outstanding leave they have not taken? In the case of accrued leave upon termination the employer shall pay an employee on a pro rata basis an amount in cash for the accrued annual leave to which that employee is entitled (section 40 (1) (e)) - provided that it is taken not later than six months after the end of leave cycle or twelve months after the end of leave cycle if (if the employee consented or extension is justified by operational requirements) (section 28(4)). Can an employer terminate an employee because s/he does not like the worker? No. Under the law there are four grounds that may justify termination of the employment by the employer and these are: Misconduct of an employee.Physical incapacity. Poor performance. Employer’s operational requirements/retrenchment. An employer may also terminate an employee due to participation in an illegal strike. Therefore for an employer to terminate an employee he/she should have a genuine reason as specified in section 45 (2) and section 46. An employee cannot be fired because an employer does not like them - unless the grounds for this dislike are based on the above-mentioned factors.What amounts to fair termination of employment? In order for termination to be fair in the eyes of the law it has to be both substantively and procedurally fair. The employer needs to have a valid and fair reason for termination. Apart from this valid reason of termination the employer must follow fair procedures for termination as provided under the Employment Act, section 45 (2) and section 46.). In any form of termination the employer is required to prove the reasons for the termination, otherwise it will be termed as unfair (section 45 (2)). The procedures for termination are different depending on the reason for termination but they all have a common item - the right of an employee to be heard before a termination decision is taken against an employee (section 41 (2)).In case a worker is terminated unfairly what would be the consequences for the employer?
If the labour officer makes the decision that the summary dismissal or the termination of contract of an employee is unjustified, he/she may recommend to the employer to pay the employee any or all of the following: The wages which the employee would have earned had the employee been given the period of notice to which he/she was entitled under this Act or his/her contract of service. Where dismissal terminates the contract before the completion of any service upon which the employee’s wages became due, the proportion of the wage due for the period of time for which the employee has worked; and any other loss consequent upon the dismissal and arising between the date of dismissal and the date of expiry of the period of notice referred to in paragraph (a) which the employee would have been entitled to by virtue of the contract. The equivalent of a number of months’ wages or salary not exceeding twelve months based on the gross monthly wage or salary of the employee at the time of dismissal. Alternatively, the employer may have to:
Reinstate the employee and treat the employee in all respects as if the employees employment had not been terminated; or
Re-engage the employee in work comparable to that in which the employee was employed prior to their dismissal, or other reasonably suitable work, at the same wage." So R911, when the folks over at the OPM realized they had BROKEN THE LAW by summarily dismissing Miguna so callously they attempted to backtrack & reinstate him. Unfortunately this also backfired because Miguna did not bite the lure that "reassigned" him to other duties. It is therefore not propaganda when I say Miguna will win his case against the OPM or GK or whatever you wish to call it. The fact remains the OPM & the PM himself (his avoiding Miguna's calls & SMS's show he approved of the termination) is guilty of breaking the laws of the land. The very same laws he swore on a bible to uphold & protect. The very same laws he claims he is the BEST candidate to ensure they are respected. Can we therefore really trust this man with the highest office in the land when he so casually broke the law? While you were busy kissing Miguna's feet at the time of his sacking & wondering why the OPM let your then hero go, I called out the PM on his illegal action. I still stand by that to this day. This is why Miguna will win his day in court against the OPM. Now kindly read up on the law & stop the emotional outbursts. The law is there to protect all of us....even those we do not approve of 
2. I WILL REPEAT AGAIN! THE ABOVE RELATES TO A CONTRACT BETWEEN AN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE !! MIGUNA SIGNED NO CONTRACT.. SO YOUR POST IS IRRELEVANT!! KAPICHE!!Miguna himself admitted that he never signed a contract with the Kenya government ... get it straight Raila does not own the Kenya Government .. he is employed and his salary is paid like all government civil servants by the Kenya tax payers.. Miguna is welcome to sue the government![/quote] Not so fast, R911. The onus always falls upon the employer to avail written contracts. However, in case they have failed to provide one, there is a provision for ORAL contracts as well. I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that he would eventually sign a written contract that crossed all the t's & dotted all the i's according to his specification: "Can I be employed via an oral contract? Yes. Oral contracts are permissible; however an employee must be supplied with a written statement of particulars containing terms listed above. It is okay to enter into an oral contract of employment because in case of any legal proceedings the burden of proving or disproving an alleged term of employment falls on the employer (section 10 (7)). If an employer fails to produce a contract of employment or written statement of particulars he/she will then fail to prove any term contained therein and the dispute might be decided against him/her. Do I as an employee have to be given a written statement of particulars or contract of employment even if am employed for few days? No. Any of the above-mentioned terms will apply to you as an employee if you have to work for a period of three months or more." www.mywage.org/kenya/home/labour-laws/contract-of-employmentNot providing Miguna with a written contract is not a defence. To paraphrase Kimunya, even in the eyes of the law a written job contract is just nothing but a piece of paper ;D Did they give Miguna a fair hearing to specifically make known to him exactly what "misconduct" he was guilty of? I think NOT! So once again R911, OPM/GK/Rt. Hon PM or whatever you want to call the office that kicked Miguna to the curb is GUILTY AS CHARGED! They go pay Miguna-ooooooh!  |
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Post by reporter911 on Aug 1, 2012 0:45:47 GMT 3
1. Misconduct "correct" it exactly relates to Miguna's actions...
2. I WILL REPEAT AGAIN! THE ABOVE RELATES TO A CONTRACT BETWEEN AN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE !! MIGUNA SIGNED NO CONTRACT.. SO YOUR POST IS IRRELEVANT!! KAPICHE!!Miguna himself admitted that he never signed a contract with the Kenya government ... get it straight Raila does not own the Kenya Government .. he is employed and his salary is paid like all government civil servants by the Kenya tax payers.. Miguna is welcome to sue the government! Not so fast, R911. The onus always falls upon the employer to avail written contracts. However, in case they have failed to provide one, there is a provision for ORAL contracts as well. I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that he would eventually sign a written contract that crossed all the t's & dotted all the i's according to his specification: "Can I be employed via an oral contract? Yes. Oral contracts are permissible; however an employee must be supplied with a written statement of particulars containing terms listed above. It is okay to enter into an oral contract of employment because in case of any legal proceedings the burden of proving or disproving an alleged term of employment falls on the employer (section 10 (7)). If an employer fails to produce a contract of employment or written statement of particulars he/she will then fail to prove any term contained therein and the dispute might be decided against him/her. Do I as an employee have to be given a written statement of particulars or contract of employment even if am employed for few days? No. Any of the above-mentioned terms will apply to you as an employee if you have to work for a period of three months or more." www.mywage.org/kenya/home/labour-laws/contract-of-employmentNot providing Miguna with a written contract is not a defence. To paraphrase Kimunya, even in the eyes of the law a written job contract is just nothing but a piece of paper ;D Did they give Miguna a fair hearing to specifically make known to him exactly what "misconduct" he was guilty of? I think NOT! So once again R911, OPM/GK/Rt. Hon PM or whatever you want to call the office that kicked Miguna to the curb is GUILTY AS CHARGED! They go pay Miguna-ooooooh! [/quote] GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT INSTEAD OF SPEWING PROPAGANDA THERE IS NOTHING ORAL WHEN JAMAA REFUSES TO SIGN A CONTRACT.. ;D ;D |
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Post by b6k on Aug 1, 2012 0:52:27 GMT 3
1. Misconduct "correct" it exactly relates to Miguna's actions...
2. I WILL REPEAT AGAIN! THE ABOVE RELATES TO A CONTRACT BETWEEN AN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE !! MIGUNA SIGNED NO CONTRACT.. SO YOUR POST IS IRRELEVANT!! KAPICHE!!Miguna himself admitted that he never signed a contract with the Kenya government ... get it straight Raila does not own the Kenya Government .. he is employed and his salary is paid like all government civil servants by the Kenya tax payers.. Miguna is welcome to sue the government! Not so fast, R911. The onus always falls upon the employer to avail written contracts. However, in case they have failed to provide one, there is a provision for ORAL contracts as well. I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that he would eventually sign a written contract that crossed all the t's & dotted all the i's according to his specification: "Can I be employed via an oral contract? Yes. Oral contracts are permissible; however an employee must be supplied with a written statement of particulars containing terms listed above. It is okay to enter into an oral contract of employment because in case of any legal proceedings the burden of proving or disproving an alleged term of employment falls on the employer (section 10 (7)). If an employer fails to produce a contract of employment or written statement of particulars he/she will then fail to prove any term contained therein and the dispute might be decided against him/her. Do I as an employee have to be given a written statement of particulars or contract of employment even if am employed for few days? No. Any of the above-mentioned terms will apply to you as an employee if you have to work for a period of three months or more." www.mywage.org/kenya/home/labour-laws/contract-of-employmentNot providing Miguna with a written contract is not a defence. To paraphrase Kimunya, even in the eyes of the law a written job contract is just nothing but a piece of paper ;D Did they give Miguna a fair hearing to specifically make known to him exactly what "misconduct" he was guilty of? I think NOT! So once again R911, OPM/GK/Rt. Hon PM or whatever you want to call the office that kicked Miguna to the curb is GUILTY AS CHARGED! They go pay Miguna-ooooooh! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT INSTEAD OF SPEWING PROPAGANDA THERE IS NOTHING ORAL WHEN JAMAA REFUSES TO SIGN A CONTRACT.. ;D ;D[/quote] As I said earlier, he refused to sign a contract that didn't meet his specifications. That doesn't mean he is not protected by the law. Why don't you hold your horses & we revisit this once the court's verdict comes in? No amount of propaganda factual information is going to change your prejudiced mind after all ;D  |
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Post by reporter911 on Aug 1, 2012 1:01:09 GMT 3
Not so fast, R911. The onus always falls upon the employer to avail written contracts. However, in case they have failed to provide one, there is a provision for ORAL contracts as well. I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that he would eventually sign a written contract that crossed all the t's & dotted all the i's according to his specification: "Can I be employed via an oral contract? Yes. Oral contracts are permissible; however an employee must be supplied with a written statement of particulars containing terms listed above. It is okay to enter into an oral contract of employment because in case of any legal proceedings the burden of proving or disproving an alleged term of employment falls on the employer (section 10 (7)). If an employer fails to produce a contract of employment or written statement of particulars he/she will then fail to prove any term contained therein and the dispute might be decided against him/her. Do I as an employee have to be given a written statement of particulars or contract of employment even if am employed for few days? No. Any of the above-mentioned terms will apply to you as an employee if you have to work for a period of three months or more." www.mywage.org/kenya/home/labour-laws/contract-of-employmentNot providing Miguna with a written contract is not a defence. To paraphrase Kimunya, even in the eyes of the law a written job contract is just nothing but a piece of paper ;D Did they give Miguna a fair hearing to specifically make known to him exactly what "misconduct" he was guilty of? I think NOT! So once again R911, OPM/GK/Rt. Hon PM or whatever you want to call the office that kicked Miguna to the curb is GUILTY AS CHARGED! They go pay Miguna-ooooooh! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT INSTEAD OF SPEWING PROPAGANDA THERE IS NOTHING ORAL WHEN JAMAA REFUSES TO SIGN A CONTRACT.. ;D ;D HA!!HA!! even the government tried to help him to reinstate him and what does he do? demand to report to the PM directly!! or else? ( this man he now calls useless! unfit to run the country!! e.t.c why then was Migina DEMANDING TO REPORT TO HIM DIRECTLY? Miguna was mightily offending that a junior officer send him a letter of reinstatement.. He again refused to sign a contract! Kwani yeye ni nani? even the Position of AG and PS he was vying for they too sign government contracts! upuzi mutupi!! Miguna was on Month to month contract and the government had full right to SACK him!! ivyo tuu  |
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Post by tnk on Aug 1, 2012 1:49:04 GMT 3
hehehe couldn't resist engaging in sideshow here I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that on the one hand we have a person or persons in the OPM described as clueless, incapable of anything, and on the other we have an abrasive fellow who can be described as anything but gentle what was that understanding again ... ?? |
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Post by job on Aug 1, 2012 1:59:41 GMT 3
From Miguna in Canada: Two questions for Adongo and Job:1. Could you please post, side-by-side, the so-called sexist statements I made about Sarah Elderkin, which you claim falsely that I have removed? (Be reminded that the original story Oloo posted has been published in the Star unedited and unchanged.) 2. Adongo, you know very well that Sarah has been lying about everything, but more profoundly about the Presidential speech in 2007, the Minnesota and Denver speeches. You have been boasting on Jukwaa on how you worked on those speeches. I still have my old email correspondence with you and Sarah. I have retained all versions and copies of the draft speeches and the final ones because I PRINCIPALLY prepared them. Can you come clean on this issue? 3. Other than that, you both should know that my rebuttal was intended for publication in the Kenyan newspapers. In fact, I only forwarded to Oloo what I had already submitted to the newspapers. After I had done that, I came across a new piece Sarah published in the Star and the exclusive interview Raila Odinga had with the Sunday Nation. My original rebuttal was prepared on Saturday. I subsequently did the editorial work and abridged it, primarily to respond to Raila and Sarah. You can both continue to delude yourselves that I was responding to your comments in Jukwaa. I rarely read them nowadays, unless someone sends specific ones to me. So, rest easy. You are the least of my concerns. To Adongo specifically: you know I have all our email exchanges, which contradict everything you have been pontificating on in Jukwaa. To me, you have become a despicable character; one who cares more about the fact that Raila is a neighbour in Sakwa, Bondo, than the numerous issues I have raised with you before and are accurately contained in my book. I will not respond to either of you again. Good Bye. You referred to Ms. Elderkin as a Raila groupie. From my current vantage, the word groupie is colloquially (mis)used in quite sexist terms. A close interpretation of its typical usage can be found in the Urban dictionary (below),... but even if we were to check its number-one meaning in the Online Oxford dictionary:
oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/groupie
groupie Pronunciation: /ˈgruːpi/
Definition of groupie
noun
informal
• a young woman who regularly follows a pop group or other celebrity, especially in the hope of having a sexual relationship with them: he pulled a different groupie every night
AND
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=groupie
Pulling semantics on this clear-cut slur won't cut. Nevertheless, that was Adongo's main gripe. My focus was in fact quite different. Thanks to Oloo, I read both, Miguna's response and its edited version, right here at JUKWAA - not at the Star news website. It was therefore right here at JUKWAA that I noticed (much later) that Oloo had replaced portions of the original version - from which we all responded. We were now faced with a significantly edited version. It is therefore mischievous to essentially request side-by-side postings of what Oloo already erased digitally. At least this is not the Star website. What was obvious was that in Miguna's first response posted here at JUKWAA (which most of us responded to), he had failed to address the numerous issues contested by Ms. Elderkin - such as authorship of Raila's Presidential launch speech and the accurate depiction of the chronology towards the Minnesota speech. That initial response delved a lot into personal jibes towards Sarah yet in the edited version, Miguna now remembered to address the two speeches in dispute. It doesn't heck matter whether it's Elderkin or us vinyangarikas at JUKWAA who reminded him to stick to substance. Furthermore, having read his entire memoir, listened to (& read) his media interviews, and engaged in responses (& non-responses) to his book's critique - I'm under no illusion whom to believe between on one hand, folks like Joshua Obell, Ms. Elderkin etc, and Miguna on another. Since Miguna chooses to post at JUKWAA through proxy, it's none of our business to keep tabs at how he and Oloo manage any edits. If he thinks I'm particularly dying for his one-on-one attention at JUKWAA that's up to him. I already saw what happened to his hitherto active JUKWAA membership as soon as he walked into the corridors of power. That was understandable given his new position in the civil service. It's still his prerogative whichever way he opts to indulge here...but he must deal with any of its consequences. I hope I'm not under any delusion I'm responding to Miguna this time. |
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Post by kmdo on Aug 1, 2012 4:04:28 GMT 3
[/quote]
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Post by roughrider on Aug 1, 2012 4:26:22 GMT 3
Miguna has not responded to the issues raised about the book. It comes across that Miguna is a saint. He is the most intelligent person ever, and everybody else is foolish, incompetent, groupie, miscreant, evil, immoral etc. Yet, the book does not discuss the episodes in Miguna’s life that could be described negatively. In fact he offers excuses for when he was not ‘number one’ in class, other than that somebody else was simply brighter. Either he was sick, missed sessions, lack of fees, Aoyi kept him in the fields etc … as a result we are supposed to understand why he went to Onjiko instead of Alliance or why he studied arts rather than sciences, or why he was admitted for BA, rather than Law etc... we are treated to a fake, sanitised Miguna.
It is in that context that the sexual assault case becomes important, it says something about the real Miguna: Miguna now claims that many black/African men in North America are railroaded by a justice system populated by white folks (the same system he contradictorily says is ‘a court you cannot bribe or intimidate’). Were the women who accused Miguna of sexual assault white by any chance? Would Miguna agree, that many rape cases go unreported because African women are disadvantaged by the criminal justice systems in North America? Why would the 2 women make ‘false’ claims against Miguna? Were they working in cahoots with the police and prosecutors to ‘fix’ Miguna? - why did he not discuss this in his book, yet he found time to discuss rumours he picked from the streets?
We have suggested that this omission tells a lot about the book, its objectives and tenor.
A former schoolmate of Miguna at Onjiko insisted that Miguna was a glutton who was known for eating. He would frequently eat ‘twice’. This was the source of the nickname ‘owadgi onding’ – which, really translates as the ‘brother of the yellow maize’ because he ate the yellow relief maize in copious quantities even as other students hated it. Greedy Miguna seeks to revise his personal story by spinning this to mean he was one who never cared about what others thought, even as he ate like a hyena.
What about Miguna’s relationships? Miguna’s Marriage’s? – Why haven’t these been discussed fully? For instance - what led to the breakdown of the marriage with Tracey if Miguna is such a perfect person? Miguna spent some time at the University of Nairobi and also in detention. Can we discuss the hard truths about all that really happened in those places? Will Oloo, Miguna’s comrade, allow it? I think that in discussing the book, we must talk about its inaccuracies and its omissions. The good – which Miguna has penned – along with the bad. Put another way, is Oloo going to allow us to wash all the linen right here on Jukwaa?
The book – as Miguna now admits, would not have sold if were just about Miguna. So it was really about the Raila years. That was our point, all along. Yet, the so called ‘Raila years’ find no single positive thing to say about Raila Odinga. Is that at all possible in a honest analysis? Miguna only started criticizing Raila after he was kicked out – it is not possible to spin that one.
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
Posts: 180
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Post by Mukwhasi on Aug 1, 2012 5:30:24 GMT 3
Miguna claims that everything that went wrong in the OPM is because of everyone else but him ,yet he repeatedly reminds us that he was the "seniormost" adviser ,what does this say about him?,i think he failed in his Job because even if you tell your boss something and he doesnt follow thorough it is the job of a competent advsor to persuade him no matter what or resign not wait to be FIRED.MEguna by responding to his critics has reduced his memoires to a matter of he said -she said which dents his credibility furthere besides the Heron court saga and the fact tha he conveniently ommited some very serious incidents like the rape saga .Can the people from Toronto tell us what they know about this man? ,why all the bitterness just because of losing a job ,if he was so proffesional why couldnt he have found another job or start a law firm in Kenya?
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
Posts: 180
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Post by Mukwhasi on Aug 1, 2012 5:34:52 GMT 3
Miguna here you go page 455 "Otuma Ongalo, until recently working as an editor with the The Standard
newspaper, was another media attack dog who formed a habit of regularly using
me as his target practice"
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
Posts: 180
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Post by Mukwhasi on Aug 1, 2012 5:36:13 GMT 3
Page 469 "Well, ten years on, Orengo had actually become Raila’s dog – metaphorically
and practically speaking "
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Post by akinyi2005 on Aug 1, 2012 5:41:13 GMT 3
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Post by adongo23456 on Aug 1, 2012 7:19:46 GMT 3
Opps! Adongo I thought you were told to lick feet like other Politicians who Miguna alleges were involved in the "PEV"or else? ;D ;D your emails will be unleashed in the Kenya newspapers, including to is it Denis Itumbi and here on Jukwaa.. NOTE Miguna refuses to release crucial information in regards to the "PEV" he himself alleged was withholding and yet with just a dial of his finger tips he is ready to unload all private emails shared between Adongo & him including speeches written for the PM? am I the one missing something here..  Miguna's outburst about the PEV during his book launch at the Intercontinental Hotel is what exposed him as a fraud and a conman out to make money by any means necessary. Even his ardent supporters were shocked by his recklessness. Predictably Miguna has avoided addressing that very important issue even as he continues to throw insults at everybody who raises even the slightest criticism about his book and bizzare behaviour. Miguna's knows he made a blunder as he got carried away with a microphone in his face. I have personally raised very specific questions with Miguna about his allegation that he has all the information about those who organized and materminded the PEV but he is hoarding that information for a future book but would not hesitate to unleash it and send people to The Hague if they don't kiss his feet. Instead Miguna wants to engage in a pissing contest with me about Raila's speeches. Isn't the issue of PEV and its masterminds more important than who wrote Raila's speeches? If Miguna can spare a second to answer questions from miscreants like myself can he tell us about the following: 1. Does he really posses information about those who organized mass murder, rape and mayhem during the PEV, undoubtedly the single most traumatic episode in the history of our country? 2. If, as Miguna claimed very publicly, he does have that information why does he in the name of justice for the victims, in the name of justice for the country, in the name of ending impunity in our country provide that information to the ICC or any other investigative bodies? And why on earth was such matter not included in his book or was it one of the minor things that were better left untouched? 3. If, as seems to be the case, Miguna does not have any info incrimating his arch enemies Raila and others in the PEV, what does it say about Miguna that he feels it is OK to slunder people, to blackmail people and play games with such serious matters like the PEV just to sell a few books and make money? Where is Miguna's own intergrity on this matter? Where is his quest for justice on this matter? Why has Miguna avoided this issue like a plague yet he is the one who raised it during his book launch? This was not raised by "groupies" like Sarah Elderkin, or "miscreants" like adongo ogony or Makau Mutua or anybody else. It was raised by Miguna Miguna himself and he has gone dead silent about it since. What does that silence say about the saint? Miguna can fool a lot of people but he is not fooling some of us. |
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Post by b6k on Aug 1, 2012 7:29:06 GMT 3
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT INSTEAD OF SPEWING PROPAGANDA THERE IS NOTHING ORAL WHEN JAMAA REFUSES TO SIGN A CONTRACT.. ;D ;D HA!!HA!! even the government tried to help him to reinstate him and what does he do? demand to report to the PM directly!! or else? ( this man he now calls useless! unfit to run the country!! e.t.c why then was Migina DEMANDING TO REPORT TO HIM DIRECTLY? Miguna was mightily offending that a junior officer send him a letter of reinstatement.. He again refused to sign a contract! Kwani yeye ni nani? even the Position of AG and PS he was vying for they too sign government contracts! upuzi mutupi!! Miguna was on Month to month contract and the government had full right to SACK him!! ivyo tuu thank you for proving my point. Your video includes a clip of the illegal suspension letter which is visible at 0:45. It clearly states that while he was on suspension Miguna would not receive any salary. This is illegal. At worst he should have received half his salary; at best he should have enjoyed a soft Isahakia/Omondi type suspension receiving full salary (which was also illegal). I understand the man rubs you the wrong way, but that is no reason for the OPM to blatantly contravene the labour laws of the land.That is impunity of the highest order & must be condemned. |
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Post by b6k on Aug 1, 2012 7:37:59 GMT 3
hehehe couldn't resist engaging in sideshow here I suppose it would be reasonable to presume that Miguna worked at OPM on the gentleman's understanding that on the one hand we have a person or persons in the OPM described as clueless, incapable of anything, and on the other we have an abrasive fellow who can be described as anything but gentle what was that understanding again ... ?? , I understand you to be a reasonable man. Whether you like Miguna or not is really not the issue. I personally have always found him to be a pompous lout. That said, even he has rights that ought to have been respected by the OPM. If it's his message you don't agree with, keep in mind that even a broken clock gives the right time at least twice a day ;D |
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Post by tnk on Aug 1, 2012 7:55:30 GMT 3
hehehe couldn't resist engaging in sideshow here on the one hand we have a person or persons in the OPM described as clueless, incapable of anything, and on the other we have an abrasive fellow who can be described as anything but gentle what was that understanding again ... ?? , I understand you to be a reasonable man. Whether you like Miguna or not is really not the issue. I personally have always found him to be a pompous lout. That said, even he has rights that ought to have been respected by the OPM. If it's his message you don't agree with, keep in mind that even a broken clock gives the right time at least twice a day ;D b6k in general am not judgemental about people, what am interested in knowing are facts as presented to the best of our knowledge. i personally dont really care about how people present themselves. in this forum i look for facts, and tend to ignore rants, insults, etc except of course for the entertainment value which can be quite refreshing see my other post on where am headed and yeah have always liked those smart alec quips like a broken watch being correct at least twice a day. did you also know that those quips are regional? in terms of assessment, what Job, Adongo, Sarah etc have presented in such a calm manner devoid of insults i.e more content is far much more believable thus far. my senses tell me that miguna and oloo probably have a lot more information between them than they are able or willing to divulge at least in a public forum such as this, but nevertheless, the information from the guys i mention above and i think i've seen some other guys who also concur is far more credible than that from the miguna camp. at least thus far. |
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Post by b6k on Aug 1, 2012 8:05:03 GMT 3
Miguna has not responded to the issues raised about the book. It comes across that Miguna is a saint. He is the most intelligent person ever, and everybody else is foolish, incompetent, groupie, miscreant, evil, immoral etc. Yet, the book does not discuss the episodes in Miguna’s life that could be described negatively. In fact he offers excuses for when he was not ‘number one’ in class, other than that somebody else was simply brighter. Either he was sick, missed sessions, lack of fees, Aoyi kept him in the fields etc … as a result we are supposed to understand why he went to Onjiko instead of Alliance or why he studied arts rather than sciences, or why he was admitted for BA, rather than Law etc... we are treated to a fake, sanitised Miguna. It is in that context that the sexual assault case becomes important, it says something about the real Miguna: Miguna now claims that many black/African men in North America are railroaded by a justice system populated by white folks (the same system he contradictorily says is ‘a court you cannot bribe or intimidate’). Were the women who accused Miguna of sexual assault white by any chance? Would Miguna agree, that many rape cases go unreported because African women are disadvantaged by the criminal justice systems in North America? Why would the 2 women make ‘false’ claims against Miguna? Were they working in cahoots with the police and prosecutors to ‘fix’ Miguna? - why did he not discuss this in his book, yet he found time to discuss rumours he picked from the streets? We have suggested that this omission tells a lot about the book, its objectives and tenor. , the omission of the sexual assault cases in Canada is Miguna's Achilles heel in his auto-biography. Even a passing mention of the allegations & the court drama with a heavy emphasis on his acquittal would've been better than expunging it from the book in toto. It wasn't the most honest way to tell his story, but at the end of the day it remains his-story to tell or not to tell ;D |
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Post by kamalet on Aug 1, 2012 8:55:17 GMT 3
Poor Miguna he must be feeling quite abandoned by most of those he thought were steadfast friends and not fair weather friends. Which is where you give credit to Oloo for standing by his buddy right through the mess he has found himself in! My credit to Oloo is that his friendship with Miguna is not built around Raila but on their history before Raila became an issue. I imagine it is not any different to Adongo and Miguna that Raila is not the reason they were friends which must explain Miguna's pain at Adongo!
I can imagine his anger at Adongo for not standing by him and his preference to stand by Raila rather than Miguna. Forget the fact that Adongo for a long time was Miguna's post messenger here in Jukwaa, defended Miguna whenever Kamale raised (the same) issues about Miguna's assertions and we even had a bragging Adongo on things he was doing with Miguna to just confirm how close they were! I suppose that a Miguna in authority was a good Miguna until he fell out!
All this falls in line with the hypocrisy I have said thrives in Jukwaa where as long as you are in the good books of Raila, you are an okay guy. Even Sarah today is good because she is doing the poo cleaning for Raila, but the moment she disagrees with Raila and throws a description some of the Jukwaa folk do not like, the apparent sexist slur of a groupie will seem appropriate for her!!
What many do not seem to realise is that Raila is quite good at using and dumping ala Moi and his political history is littered with people that abandoned him for more reasons than just one! So out goes Miguna and next in line will be someone whose feet Raila sycophants happily kiss here in Jukwaa and before even the sun sets they will have joined the ranks of Ruto and Miguna!
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Post by adongo23456 on Aug 1, 2012 9:48:07 GMT 3
Poor Miguna he must be feeling quite abandoned by most of those he thought were steadfast friends and not fair weather friends. Which is where you give credit to Oloo for standing by his buddy right through the mess he has found himself in! My credit to Oloo is that his friendship with Miguna is not built around Raila but on their history before Raila became an issue. I imagine it is not any different to Adongo and Miguna that Raila is not the reason they were friends which must explain Miguna's pain at Adongo! I can imagine his anger at Adongo for not standing by him and his preference to stand by Raila rather than Miguna. Forget the fact that Adongo for a long time was Miguna's post messenger here in Jukwaa, defended Miguna whenever Kamale raised (the same) issues about Miguna's assertions and we even had a bragging Adongo on things he was doing with Miguna to just confirm how close they were! I suppose that a Miguna in authority was a good Miguna until he fell out! All this falls in line with the hypocrisy I have said thrives in Jukwaa where as long as you are in the good books of Raila, you are an okay guy. Even Sarah today is good because she is doing the poo cleaning for Raila, but the moment she disagrees with Raila and throws a description some of the Jukwaa folk do not like, the apparent sexist slur of a groupie will seem appropriate for her!! What many do not seem to realise is that Raila is quite good at using and dumping ala Moi and his political history is littered with people that abandoned him for more reasons than just one! So out goes Miguna and next in line will be someone whose feet Raila sycophants happily kiss here in Jukwaa and before even the sun sets they will have joined the ranks of Ruto and Miguna! We understand your obsession with Raila which has occupied your thinking in anything political as long as we have known you here in jukwaa. Probably that is all your involvement in politics entails. That is your problem. As for me I have been involved in the struggle for social justice in Kenya long before I knew anybody like Raila even existed. I have been a human rights activist long before I knew anybody called Miguna or stumbled upon a character called Kamale in Jukwaa. I will continue to do so even if all of you were dead today. Fortunately for me I have never depended on politicians to feed me or my family. They pay me no money and do not put food on my table. I don't think I will ever work for a politician for a living. So the use and dump nonsense is just your own fantasy. Yes I did post a lot of stuff for Miguna when he was a highly placed civil servant that some of you wanted to have mud wrestling with here in jukwaa to satisfy your obssessive interests with Raila. That is no longer the case but of course you wouldn't notice that, would you? hehehe. What else is knew? I have a right to disagree with Miguna and say so bluntly and I have done that. In the same vein I have a right to disagree with Raila or Kamale and say so. I have done both. I need no instructions from anybody on what I am allowed to think and/or say. That has been the case pretty much all my adult life. I don't see that changing any time soon. You might as well get used to that. Miguna has done some very good things while serving as an advisor to the PM and I am proud to say I have been involved in some of those. Miguna himself knows that. Miguna has also done some things I consider nonsensical and I am even more proud to say that loudly and clearly. When adongo does dumb things I expect Miguna and others to denounce such things. That is life. It is a little more complex than some minds tend to grasp. That is fine with me. There are many things I don't understand myself. I am cool with that. |
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Post by kamalet on Aug 1, 2012 10:11:32 GMT 3
Poor Miguna he must be feeling quite abandoned by most of those he thought were steadfast friends and not fair weather friends. Which is where you give credit to Oloo for standing by his buddy right through the mess he has found himself in! My credit to Oloo is that his friendship with Miguna is not built around Raila but on their history before Raila became an issue. I imagine it is not any different to Adongo and Miguna that Raila is not the reason they were friends which must explain Miguna's pain at Adongo! I can imagine his anger at Adongo for not standing by him and his preference to stand by Raila rather than Miguna. Forget the fact that Adongo for a long time was Miguna's post messenger here in Jukwaa, defended Miguna whenever Kamale raised (the same) issues about Miguna's assertions and we even had a bragging Adongo on things he was doing with Miguna to just confirm how close they were! I suppose that a Miguna in authority was a good Miguna until he fell out! All this falls in line with the hypocrisy I have said thrives in Jukwaa where as long as you are in the good books of Raila, you are an okay guy. Even Sarah today is good because she is doing the poo cleaning for Raila, but the moment she disagrees with Raila and throws a description some of the Jukwaa folk do not like, the apparent sexist slur of a groupie will seem appropriate for her!! What many do not seem to realise is that Raila is quite good at using and dumping ala Moi and his political history is littered with people that abandoned him for more reasons than just one! So out goes Miguna and next in line will be someone whose feet Raila sycophants happily kiss here in Jukwaa and before even the sun sets they will have joined the ranks of Ruto and Miguna! We understand your obsession with Raila which has occupied your thinking in anything political as long as we have known you here in jukwaa. Probably that is all your involvement in politics entails. That is your problem. As for me I have been involved in the struggle for social justice in Kenya long before I knew anybody like Raila even existed. I have been a human rights activist long before I knew anybody called Miguna or stumbled upon a character called Kamale in Jukwaa. I will continue to do so even if all of you were dead today. Fortunately for me I have never depended on politicians to feed me or my family. They pay me no money and do not put food on my table. I don't think I will ever work for a politician for a living. So the use and dump nonsense is just your own fantasy. Yes I did post a lot of stuff for Miguna when he was a highly placed civil servant that some of you wanted to have mud wrestling with here in jukwaa to satisfy your obssessive interests with Raila. That is no longer the case but of course you wouldn't notice that, would you? hehehe. What else is knew? I have a right to disagree with Miguna and say so bluntly and I have done that. In the same vein I have a right to disagree with Raila or Kamale and say so. I have done both. I need no instructions from anybody on what I am allowed to think and/or say. That has been the case pretty much all my adult life. I don't see that changing any time soon. You might as well get used to that. sawa? Adongo Do not worry now one wants to take away your right to think or like whoever you want. So you have been mildly critical of Raila here in Jukwaa and perhaps elsewhere, the point is that you did not abandon him. Can you say the same of Miguna whom you have probably known personally longer than Raila in you claims to activism? That is what I am questioning - the loyalty! You are allowed to criticise Miguna especially if you truly believe in him as your friend - but abandoning him for a politician does not seem right! So exercise your right as you wish, but also allow us to make judgement of your recent behaviour as regards Miguna! |
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Post by phil on Aug 1, 2012 10:23:31 GMT 3
hehehehehehe. Miguna,First of, I must say it is very nice of you to take your valuable time to respond to our humble posts which you claim you never read. I can understand how hard it is to respond to stuff you have never read. How do you manage that? Secondly, I personally find it very childish to be competing about who wrote which part of which Raila speech. You claim I have been boasting of having written parts of those speeches which seem to be very important to you. My question to you is, how did you find that out since you never read what mere mortals like me post? Do you even understand how you contradict yourself so thoroughly? May be not and quite frankly that is your problem. Third, if Raila is so useless, why are you so desperate to be seen as the guy who wrote at least parts of his speeches? Fourth, about my e-mails exchanges with you, I would welcome you to post them or send them to friendly "hackers". I have absolutely nothing to hide. I have offered, for free, my contributions to the ODM effort for a better Kenya. They never paid me a dime unlike you who was working for pay with the PM. I have at times provided brutal and honest criticism to the PM and ODM not just through you but even here in Jukwaa. I did so as part of my little effort to make our country better. I would do the same again and again. I would love to read some of those pieces right here in Jukwaa or anywhere else you choose to send them. No problem. And the notion that my criticism of you (which you allegedly never read) is because Raila is from Sakwa Bondo is quite hilarious. So why do you think I supported Dr. Mutunga for the CJ job? He must be from Ogago village. Right? Get real my friend. As for your sexist nonsense towards Sarah Elderkin, here is what I posted before you resonded to us by editing your post at least as per Oloo's own later post on your post(s). Feel free to respond to them when you have a second from your busy schedule of book promotion. Here we go: "Obviously we are having problems with freedom of expression again. It looks to me from Miguna’s response to his crtics that freedm of expression only belongs to those who praise Miguna or those who see nothing whatsoever to be questioned about Miguna’s book and his actions and activities. Those are the only normal people allowed to have a brain as far as Miguna is concerned.
Woe unto those like Sarah Elderkin who have actually used their little uncertified brains to criticize Miguna’s book and other aspects of his ctions. They are “groupies”, “ miscreants”, “pseudo intellectuals”, “Kanu orphans” etc. Obviously according to Miguna these sad souls have no right to express their views. Talk about intolerance.
We can and sometimes have festivals abusive stuff, but I wonder if all these really adds value to Miguna’s own arguments other than fitting into a pattern that has proved not so helpful to Miguna.
I have not read Miguna’s book, in fact the only copy I have seen is the one Oloo brought in a meeting we had in Nairobi. Obviously I am going to read it. I have read some excerpts of Sarah Elderkin’s critique. I was hoping Miguna would respond to “issues” raised by Ms Elderkin without calling her a groupie which is outright sexism from Miguna. I wonder what Miguna would say if a white colleague called him a boy. It would be racist even though the same word boy used in a different context would be harmless. A man using the word groupie in reference to a female colleague and a superb writer in her own right is just good old sexism that men use to intimidate women. It is completely uncalled for".I like what I am reading! I admire your boldness and I fully appreciate your rejecting Miguna's attempt at blackmailing you through past correspondence you confidentially shared with him. Shows how much of an judas you were dealing with. I hope Oloo takes note of this. Now people can see Miguna for who he trully is. A man with no moral values and one who thinks everybody else is clueless apart from him. A man whose actions are motivated by money and nothing else. Did I see somewhere Miguna ranking himself in the same pedestal as the late George Anyona? What nonsense! Miguna is nowhere near the reform credentials George Anyona attained in his lifetime. |
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Post by phil on Aug 1, 2012 10:23:56 GMT 3
reporter,Miguna's outburst about the PEV during his book launch at the Intercontinental Hotel is what exposed him as a fraud and a conman out to make money by any means necessary. Even his ardent supporters were shocked by his recklessness. Predictably Miguna has avoided addressing that very important issue even as he continues to throw insults at everybody who raises even the slightest criticism about his book and bizzare behaviour. Miguna's knows he made a blunder as he got carried away with a microphone in his face. In the coming days Adongo, we shall reveal more dark secrets that Miguna did not share with you (and I doubt if he did with Oloo) while you were in Canada. And yes, they revolve around money, lots of it! You saw the way he skirted around the question of the persons who financed publication of the peeling book? Typical Miguna arrogance and false sense of superiority complex. Although I was the first to start a thread to criticize the PM's sudden unkind suspension of Miguna from office, I was equally the first to dismiss Miguna when I came to learn of his secret meetings with PNU honchos. (You know he left all that out of his peeling book). You can check this thread for refreshers!!! jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=5759&page=1#75785 |
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Post by kamalet on Aug 1, 2012 10:25:25 GMT 3
Poor Miguna he must be feeling quite abandoned by most of those he thought were steadfast friends and not fair weather friends. Which is where you give credit to Oloo for standing by his buddy right through the mess he has found himself in! My credit to Oloo is that his friendship with Miguna is not built around Raila but on their history before Raila became an issue. I imagine it is not any different to Adongo and Miguna that Raila is not the reason they were friends which must explain Miguna's pain at Adongo! I can imagine his anger at Adongo for not standing by him and his preference to stand by Raila rather than Miguna. Forget the fact that Adongo for a long time was Miguna's post messenger here in Jukwaa, defended Miguna whenever Kamale raised (the same) issues about Miguna's assertions and we even had a bragging Adongo on things he was doing with Miguna to just confirm how close they were! I suppose that a Miguna in authority was a good Miguna until he fell out! All this falls in line with the hypocrisy I have said thrives in Jukwaa where as long as you are in the good books of Raila, you are an okay guy. Even Sarah today is good because she is doing the poo cleaning for Raila, but the moment she disagrees with Raila and throws a description some of the Jukwaa folk do not like, the apparent sexist slur of a groupie will seem appropriate for her!! What many do not seem to realise is that Raila is quite good at using and dumping ala Moi and his political history is littered with people that abandoned him for more reasons than just one! So out goes Miguna and next in line will be someone whose feet Raila sycophants happily kiss here in Jukwaa and before even the sun sets they will have joined the ranks of Ruto and Miguna! We understand your obsession with Raila which has occupied your thinking in anything political as long as we have known you here in jukwaa. Probably that is all your involvement in politics entails. That is your problem. As for me I have been involved in the struggle for social justice in Kenya long before I knew anybody like Raila even existed. I have been a human rights activist long before I knew anybody called Miguna or stumbled upon a character called Kamale in Jukwaa. I will continue to do so even if all of you were dead today. Fortunately for me I have never depended on politicians to feed me or my family. They pay me no money and do not put food on my table. I don't think I will ever work for a politician for a living. So the use and dump nonsense is just your own fantasy. Yes I did post a lot of stuff for Miguna when he was a highly placed civil servant that some of you wanted to have mud wrestling with here in jukwaa to satisfy your obssessive interests with Raila. That is no longer the case but of course you wouldn't notice that, would you? hehehe. What else is knew? I have a right to disagree with Miguna and say so bluntly and I have done that. In the same vein I have a right to disagree with Raila or Kamale and say so. I have done both. I need no instructions from anybody on what I am allowed to think and/or say. That has been the case pretty much all my adult life. I don't see that changing any time soon. You might as well get used to that. sawa? Adongo Do not worry now one wants to take away your right to think or like whoever you want. So you have been mildly critical of Raila here in Jukwaa and perhaps elsewhere, the point is that you did not abandon him. Can you say the same of Miguna whom you have probably known personally longer than Raila in you claims to activism? That is what I am questioning - the loyalty! You are allowed to criticise Miguna especially if you truly believe in him as your friend - but abandoning him for a politician does not seem right! So exercise your right as you wish, but also allow us to make judgement of your recent behaviour as regards Miguna! |
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Post by adongo23456 on Aug 1, 2012 10:26:40 GMT 3
Kamale,
Just for the record and I don't think is important, I first met and got to know Raila in 1982 when we met at Kilimani Police Station. I was then the Secretary General of SONU and we had a long chat pretty much throughout the night. I have since worked with Raila here and there in the political project to democratize our country and build a better Kenya for all.
I met Miguna in Canada in or about 1989 and we have since worked together on and off for our country to make it better. I am sure we will continue to do so separately and/or collectively. It doesn't matter to me.
I find your comment about "abandoning Miguna for a politician" loaded with all sorts of absurd innuendo which is very typical of you. Your wife or girlfriend may abandon you for the another dude around the block or vice versa. Giving criticisms or opinions about about other peoples' opinions or views does not amount to abandoning them. I hope that helps you clarify your thinking. I also think we should let the thread be what it as meant to be. It is certainly not about adongo ogony. Of that I am sure.
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