emali
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Post by emali on Mar 21, 2012 10:18:15 GMT 3
It's always the small things which take this big time crooks down...Al Capone for all his heinous crimes was taken down by a tax case & R.Nixon by some unnecessary office break-in...Ruto has very little wiggle room on this he can't claim Muteshi is Raila's cousin neither can he claim he is an ICC witness...
You cannot fool people forever...we can all remember the sad sight of Katana Ngala (na ile ile leather Jacket ya black) in court looking almost destitute...Ruto may be a wealthy man but its apparent his wealth is based on stealing and more stealing I wonder which of his companies is a highly profitable going concern after his massive legal bills and abandonment by political benefactors he could end up in a very bad state like Ngala...maybe that's why his eyes look bloodshot and he can only preach one tune...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 21, 2012 9:41:03 GMT 3
;D ;D ;D Funny enough just like Kathure thats what I thought when I heard about Russells escapades in San Diego...the guy looked very balanced on the video with son all charming with the cant we all get along warmth surrounding the video... OtishOtishHehehe I have heard enough tales to make me not discard those juju charms though I agree some extraterrestial stuff happens in our daily lives that cant be explained I'm still a skeptic...why didn't all these Juju Gurus gang up and create one for the ages when that white blue eyed devil started roaming our savanna's ;D I bet they did, but that mzungu had an even stronger one made of lead...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 18, 2012 4:31:20 GMT 3
jakaswanga only leaders/pundits from central continue to harp ethnic issues, ethnic voting blocks and what not. this has been their agenda from GEMA days and remains their agenda today. can you highlight even one true leadership virtue/quality or item from that interview on another thread we have professionals striking for one reason or another, do we also find out how the strikes or strikers are doing so by ethnic community? although i get your point about Gachoka, the reality is that this is the only hold that PNU still has i.e ethnic voting block otherwise, the economy is highly unstable, the skewed infrastructure projects are yet to bear fruit. there is no need to address the ethnic babble from Gachoka. Let him and those like minded continue to stew in it. tnk,I think that ethnic bubble needs to be seriously adressed. Needs to be urgently deconstructed at every juncture. And not just for scholarly purposes. WHY? As Kenya plunged into PEV last time around, the violence took an ETHNIC slant. --There is no class loyalty when poor Kalenjins slaughter poor Kikuyus, and poor Kikuyus slaughter poor Luos. There is ethnic paramountcy. 2007 is just yesterday, and I do think that ethnic paramouncy/solidarity would still be decisive in a radical situation of hot conflict --like botched elections again. I then think this ethnic thing is a political faultline, and there is need for active work to hold it together, even as the likes of Gachoka perpetually seek to articulate it, widen and exploit it. In ignoring or failing to counter this thinktank, dismissing it offhand as you do sir, underestimating her organisational and mobilisational potential on the ground, you should take a look at how the same mentality/school has dismembered Somalia's social and political fabric when weakly countered. Even the rift block does not want to be in a block simply for the sake of ethnicity. what they want is results on their historic grievances NB: Of course the ethnic homogeinity has never managed to conceal the contradictions therein, and so there has always been a (...) Matiba-Kibaki dualism, a Mboya-Odinga dualism, a Moi-Seroney dualism ... Dualisms which are based on irreconcilable economic realities. I know ethnic balkanisation [as in fanning extreme nationalism], is and will be the last resort of this elite to maintain relevance and dominance. But that force is a destroyer of nations. Actually Gachoka's affable and confident bubble turns my heart cold. He looks an innocent baby with a loaded gun pointing it at an adult! When it matures it is radio milles collines! It is deadly poison. You can imagine what he says in the safety of his own enclave, far from public microphones which no doubt impose a restraint. But how do you do that in Kenya? The only way in the near future is through a Raila Presidency IMO... If we are to address ethnicity as you say we cannot do it without delving into personalities, political history,current prevailing conditions and personal opinions. And so I will go right ahead and give you my opinion... The Luo/Gikuyu dynamic has dominated Kenyan politics since the formation of KPU...Raila (just like Jaramogi) with all his faults is still the best candidate we have to be the next PORK because ‘in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king’ but the Gikuyu won’t have it mainly because unlike Moi Raila will not coddle them (& do everything behind the scenes to destroy them i.e.Moi) but run a strong presidency and mess with the only thing the Gikuyu care about which is MONEY… We can have a debate about how our different tribes evolved from the 16th century to date and see how different ethnicities evolved politically/socially and how African culture in general has had difficulties adapting to capitalism/democracy and western culture and address that context to Kenyan politics today but the reality is we have an election next year and we know very well we will vote as we always have along tribal lines…no need for subtleties…Kibunja has made a lot of good proposals in ensuring full representation of ethnicities in government but they are based on numbers not control and power where most of the problem lies… The Gikuyu will dominate Kenya politically and economically for the foreseeable future because they have the numbers and the financial wherewithal (just look at which indigenous group owns most of the financial industry) that is the reason Tony Gachoka can talk the way he does and most Gikuyu’s thoughts mirror his…another Gikuyu president & if not anyone but Raila… A Raila presidency will make a Luo PORK & pacify a community which has been on the outside looking in for 50 years at the same time prove that a Raila presidency won’t be the end of Kenya and also move the presidency away from the Gikuyu/Kalenjin axis ensuring Kenya is not exclusively for the Gikuyu and those that appease them. Kenya much more than most African countries is inundated by national politics, you radically change the political climate & you change everything else primarily ethnic homogeneity. A powerful presidency & and an extremely centralized government will continue to control commerce that is why devolution is almost anathema for Kibaki & his cabal because the rich want to obviously get richer. A non Gikuyu/Kalenjin president will be less tempted to maintain the status quo and follow the letter of our new constitution… We have come a long way with this constitution…though our politicians don’t seem to understand what they voted for but it will go a long way in ensuring ethnic homogeneity especially if its principal caretaker believes in it but ultimately only time, commited individuals and unexpected external influences (ICC) will accelerate our progress…
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 16, 2012 12:13:00 GMT 3
You don�t have to start the PEV blame game all over again.
Whilst it may true that Raila may have been the biggest beneficiary of the PEV, the O4 suspects did not have to deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims. Raila did not! Or at least there is no suggestion and or evidence which may support such allegations. The difference is distinctively and definitely clear.
As for Raila calling on the �prayerful� duo, I think the man is sometimes too naive and slow of action for his own good! Just look at what Miguna did to him and now Mudamba! I just wonder what or who is going to be next poisonous kin if he is to survive all this. The real question is whether the O4 did "deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims." As I recall, many who so enthusiastically condemn the violence now were even more enthusiastically routing for the violence while it was afoot! Their complaints then were not that there was violence, rather that anybody was calling for an end to violence! And at that time there was absolutely no mention of any of the Ocampo 4, or even any of the Ocampo 6 set. I am not making this up ... it is somewhere on this Jukwaa! So something has changed. If we want truth we have to start from the beginning and track the process all through. What changed, when, why, who was involved and how? These are not questions people want asked when they have a made-up end in their mind that they want to see perfected in reality. But some of us want to know the truth, and we do not care who is found villain in the process of unfolding the truth. So I man say, lets start from the beginning and not shy from any of it. As regards your first question I think they did…why? 1. Ruto/Sang…Is it a coincidence clashes in the RV began at the same time as the clamour for multipartysm? I don’t think so...Moi knew how to manipulate state resources for political gain. As we can see today Ruto learnt from the ‘best’… Ocampo’s claim that the network was as organized as he portrayed it may seem over speculative but I cannot dismiss it after all the mysterious deaths associated with the Ouko saga & the tendency to underestimate Moi’s intellect, organization & ruthlessness .Sangs role as the conduit for hate speech & code disseminator is plausible as well…AbdulMotes thread title & its contributors show the influence of the vernacular stations. 2. Uhuru/Muthaura…Their link to Mungiki at this point (especially Uhuru) looks obvious…the Mungiki going to the RV (As well as Nairobi slums) to stop the violence against their kinsmen and escalate the conflict seems rather obvious as well…at least in social cirles.Its not outrageous to imagine what Ocampo alleges actually took place especially when the government seems to be doing everything to discredit the ICC/Ocampo. Your second point is in the Jukwaa archives and there for all to see…what changed? In one answer POLITICS…The reality is our politics has deteriorated to the point where the culpability is not only on the O4 but to virtually all of us…the PEV was triggered by Kibaki’s civilian coup but arguments can be made that the Mungiki or whoever could not just sit back & watch their cousins slaughtered, however macabre it’s the reality. The truth will come out & hopefully the entire trial will be seen for what it is a referendum on our politics…hopefully we will have learnt very valuable lessons….
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 14, 2012 19:56:37 GMT 3
If indeed their strategy (hate rallies, witness intimidation and forged letters) was Lubanganisque, Ruto and Uhuru will never ever (and ever) go to the Hague to face trial voluntarily. It's in their best interest to become Bashir-like ICC fugitives. That to be the case, is their any place for a Black Water type bounty hunter outfit that could kidnap, blindfold and bundle Uhuru and Ruto into a small Cessna plane and fly them out to the Hague from Wilson Airport? I Doubt the US/EU would resort to that type of operation...they reserve that type of operation for the likes of Osama or the Boko Haram kidnappings of their citizens...after all drug kingpin Mwau is a very free man. If they are found guilty they will appeal which could take years and if they exhaust their appeals it won’t matter whether they surrender to the court or become fugitives events would have overtaken them...their political careers will be dead...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 14, 2012 18:04:54 GMT 3
@ Omwega
I admire your optimism...that pessimism that I told you about in the hope that your pseudo-utopian ideals would have rubbed off on me has returned...I just can’t shake it off...
Can you imagine what Ruto is thinking after reading this? Or some Liar/Desperado in Kangemi? Huyu Omwega lazima amevuta kitu...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 14, 2012 17:46:23 GMT 3
Let’s see Omar Hassan’s options once he decided to jump into national politics...
PNU...Party only in name (Mta do?) led by a lacklustre professor & whose sell by date is tied to the ever elusive election date
URP... Briefcase party headed by an ICC suspect known for his appetite for private & public land
KANU...Rudderless ICC Suspect ‘lead’ party which seems to be on the verge of extinction
ODM...Well, you be the judge
THE REST...Their significance isn’t easily identifiable
This is assuming no law prevents past (or recent past) KNCHR commissioners from running for public office.
He did a great job at KNCHR I hope he can do the same in politics...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 13, 2012 17:56:36 GMT 3
Hahaha. This is getting comical. I can almost predict Mudavadi's next move. Expect to him soon at the Uhuruto prayer rallies. Followed closely by numerous complaints about dictatorship in ODM then a melodramatic defection. Watch this space. ditto...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 12, 2012 18:08:18 GMT 3
Looks like the OPM has a new Miguna...strong stuff...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 12, 2012 14:11:50 GMT 3
Raila (or his ‘secretariat’) erred on this one...why stoop to the level of Ruto & Uhuru? Raila is obviously right in what he said after all its Uhuruto who have been preaching hate across the country but this is not a logic quiz or a black & white issue...Raila instead of being a Martin Luther King he can’t fight his instincts & steadfastly remains Malcolm X...
Why not wait till they are securely behind bars? And even then no need to dance on their graves...they were doing very well on their own!
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 8, 2012 16:55:42 GMT 3
I initially wondered what was the reason behind Obama sending 100 US troops to Uganda...well it looks like the Org the INVISIBLE NETWORK was behind it...see their campaign which has gone viral on youtube...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 5, 2012 10:24:04 GMT 3
Nothing makes sense on this...
1. Why would Matsanga claim JMK is witness #4 if he isn’t? Assuming he is working for his masters (O4) this hurts their case or maybe Matsanga is just looking for cheap publicity.
2. Why would JMK recant in 2009 and testify in 2010? Unless he was scared stiff and posed as a compromised witness to scuttle Ocampo’s case or simply he never testified for the ICC & recanted in 2009 & kept the tape as security in case the powers that be ever came looking for him and sought out Matsaga to prove he ‘lied’ to stay safe...Matsaga proceeded to use the tape for his own purposes...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 5, 2012 9:03:15 GMT 3
Moi with his usual pesa nane to bilioni moja political pronouncements...always trying to stay relevant not to be missed was Kibaki’s squirming & uneasiness when the camera shifted to him as if to say ‘can you die already old man’...
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 5, 2012 8:33:50 GMT 3
Shocking stuff!!....It will be hard to prosecute a case against Jonathan Moi, just like the Ouko Murder the truth is buried with its ‘victims’. I commend Ahmedinassir Abdulahi & NLM as they seem to be the only publisher not compromised by fear, vested interests or money…
I had never heard (even rumors) that J.Moi was involved in Julie Wards murder…but the story makes a lot of sense primarily for the grand scale nature of the state cover up…
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 2, 2012 12:38:03 GMT 3
Gitobu Imanyara deserves a ton of credit for his (and many others) bravery during the fight against Moi’s dictatorial regime AND EVEN MORE RESPECT TODAY when so many of those same liberators have failed to live up to the ideals they espoused when they finally came to power or joined the government of the day....
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emali
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Post by emali on Mar 2, 2012 11:47:18 GMT 3
The Nation is very conspicuous by its silence...this ruling was expected, it will be interesting to see Uhuruto running their campaigns from the Hague, they should at least let their supporters know this fact if only to lessen the blow...
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 27, 2012 14:05:22 GMT 3
Rejoinder from Miguna :I have seen the attacks and comments on Jukwaa and other places, condemning me for buddying up to Jerome Corsi, whom they refer to as extremist and racist. These attacks were expected it but they will not change anything. This is why. 1. The East African Educational Publishers - the largest publishing firm in East Africa - agreed to publish the book last November before the book was written. They asked me to ensure that they had the manuscript by January this year so that the book could come out in Feb or March this year.
2. I went to work and some days slept only 2 hours. I managed to finish the manuscript in January 2012.
3. The EAEP gave me letters undertaking to publish the book and took the manuscript for review.
4. They completed their review within two weeks and called me in for assessment. After the meeting, all the issues they had raised (and they were few and very minor) were resolved. They gave me another letter confirming our understanding/agreement.
5. Within one week after the assessment, they communicated with me and indicated that I would be required to sign a contract on Jan. 23rd, 2012. But they said they might not be able to meet the February date; they wanted to do it in June. I told them that was OK.
6. On Jan. 23rd, at about 6.30 p.m., I received a letter from them (electronically), indicating that unfortunately, they could not now publish the book until after the elections. One of my contacts there mentioned that the chairman of the board suddenly changed the original decision. When I pressed if they had been approached or bribed not to publish the book; they could not deny or accept. I reached my own conclusions.
7. The EAEP was the publisher of choice because I thought it was big, well established and professional. They had also showed nothing but enthusiasm at the prospect of publishing the book. They actually referred to the manuscript as a "masterpiece" and stated that they needed to publish it ahead of this year's London Book Fair.
8. The sudden change of heart surprised me and showed how compromised publishers are in Kenya.
9. I had earlier approached two other Kenyan publishers. One told me that they only do educational books. They don't do fiction, non-fiction or memoirs. The second one told me that the project was "too hot" for them (their own words).
10. I was now left with two choices: either to self-publish (with all its attendant problems) or to seek a publisher abroad.
11. Last month, a good friend of mine reported to me that Raila was boasting that my book would never see the light of day.
12. Almost at the same time, someone working at the PM's office called to tell me how Caroli Omondi was overheard boasting on the phone shortly after he had announced the "reinstatement" that "this is what will now destroy Miguna completely." In other words, the so-called reinstatement and other shenanigans were only intended to "destroy Miguna."
13. Late last year, someone from the WND had contacted me about publishing the book. I had declined. But now that I was foreseeing the prospect of Kenyan publishers refusing to publish the book in time or not at all, I had to make a decision. Would I refuse help from someone because of their political and ideological beliefs at the risk of failing to publish my book? What was important here: publishing the book without censorship and compromise or killing the idea on the basis of our ideological differences?
14. I then remembered a few historical facts that helped me make the decision: Frederick Douglass - the legendary anti-slavery hero was published by people who many would have considered racists and extremists. The same applied to Martin Luther King Jr., Frantz Fanon, Kwameh Nkrumah, Nelson Mandela, Jomo Kenyatta, Oginga Odinga - name them. The political and ideological orientation of their publishers did not affect the content of their books. After all, who owns the major publishers of the world? Are they African American activists? Which are the publishing firms owned by progressives in Kenya?
15. Many Africans - and global progressives, even revolutionaries like my late friend Dr. Tajudeen Abdul Raheem - went to Oxford University in England on RHODES SCHOLARSHIP. This is a scholarship that was started by and named after Cecil Rhodes - the legendary racist from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. How many of these people have been subjected to hatred and vile attacks on the basis that they accepted a scholarship started and named after a racist? How about scholarships, publication and other financial support by the Rockefeller, Ford and other foundations that were started and funded by ultra racists and slave owners?
16. When many of my critics purchase a computer, use an airline like KLM and others, have they ever stopped to ask: "who owns this company; plane or airline?"
17. What about the Nobel Peace Prize - who founded and funded the prestigious prize? Wasn't he, too, considered a racist? Yet, didn’t we celebrate Mandela, Maathai and others who were bestowed by the Nobel Peace Prize?
18. Between having the book published and having it suppressed, what would you have chosen?
These are the questions we must ask; not allow ourselves to be driven by narrow mindedness and needless hatred and propaganda! The so-called progressives now yelling at me don't own publishing firms. More significantly, they have been gleefully waiting to see me fail to publish the book. They have not been supportive at all. They are good at condemning things and people (and I have not been spared). When I was working like a dog (yes, I mean it) for Raila and ODM, they were urging me on. Yet immediately after Raila violated my constitutional and human rights, they have been the most vociferous at assassinating my character. Many others have simply hidden (from me.) I frankly don’t give a hoot! Think about it: why are they quiet when Raila woos Moi, Njonjo, Githunguri and others? Aren't these people the ones who destroyed our lives and country? Aren't they the ones who looted our assets and stashed it abroad? So, why is it OK for Raila to consort with them and not OK for Miguna just to get published by some US firm? Yesterday, Feb. 26th at the 9 O'clock news on Citizen TV, they had a clip on "Who Owns Kenya?” They had an oil firm worth more than Sh30 billion operating in Kenya and the region. Who are the shareholders? A prominent member of the Saudi royal family (yes, you got that right) owns 65% of the company while Raila Odinga and his family - Fidel, Ida, Oburu, Raila Jr own the remaining 35%. Now, even a toddler knows the human rights record of the House of Saud! Yet, it's OK for Raila to be in business with such characters but a crime for Miguna just to get published even after all the local firms had refused to publish because of political pressure? Finally, for those always suggesting that I rent my house in Runda; that is false. I own it. I built it with my own sweat and savings before I returned to Kenya in 2007! Secondly, the Star did NOT stop me from publishing my column. I withdrew once they started censoring me. Those interested in personal attacks and spreading unfounded lies should at least try to get some basic things right. My book shall be published by latest June this year. And it shall be sold globally including in Kenya. I gave my word to the country and I shall fulfil it. I will not respond to any further attacks on this issue. Miguna Miguna Its hard to disagree with him on this...
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 17, 2012 0:50:10 GMT 3
Kalonzo maybe a turncoat and is self declared as Mr.katikati but he hasn’t killed anyone or advocated killing of any kind or to the best of my knowledge ever taken part in massive corruption aside from maybe inflating his per diem...
As for the rest well...
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 10, 2012 17:50:41 GMT 3
Politics in Kenya is not religion, you lost me right here... “The good news for Raila and ODM, however, is there are many in Group A or B willing and ready to receive that message of hope and transformation and to accordingly move to Group C, even in the face of this dogged determination by those scheming to defeat the spreading of such a message.”It’s more like; Group A = Do we have a ‘charismatic’ tribal leader? If Yes we are all in if not we will invent one. Group B=We can’t invent a leader so we will not vote at all, vote for who my peers seem to be gravitating towards or go with our cousins with a ’charismatic’ leader Group C=The remaining 3% or less who will vote based on ideology or considering all the variables and are not influenced by anybody. Group D = The large apathetic population which won’t vote at all they just don’t believe they will make a difference and are a tired of politics altogether. With all the poverty & semi-literacy it will take a while before your theory is realized Omwega… Emali,First, you are looking at the glass from the half-empty perspective while yours truly is looking at it from a half-full perspective.
I have much more faith and believe in our people's instincts than your hypothesis suggests.Second, if you look through all the polls that have been taken since the last election--and its an open secret these all serve various vested or invested interests, you cannot but conclude we have between 15 and 20% of likely voters in Group C, not 3% as you seem to suggest. Third, voter apathy is a problem not unique to Kenya only; in fact, it's the norm as only just over 50% of eligible voters vote in any given election in most true democracies, including here in the US where the highest eligible voter turn-out to date was in 2004, with approximately 61% eligible voter turning out to vote, which in by itself was a record since 1964. In Kenya--and keeping in mind vote rigging, voter turn-out has actually been going up in several consecutive elections and is expected to be even higher in than the 54.49% that voted in 2007. While I agree with you poverty and illiteracy is something to reckon in my theory, I am less worried about that than the backwardness and tribalistic thinking and defense I see among the very educated and informed. That really concerns and worries yours truly for if they can't shake this backwardness and primitive thinking, how can their parents, siblings and other relatives who look up to them do it? It if for this reason those of us who are not imbued with this disease must double or even triple our efforts to convince our friends and colleagues or even more appropriately, those who we discourse with in these and other fora that a tribalism free society is the way to go and that starts with us right here in these fora.Guilty as charged I am indeed a pessimist but I try,my hope is that you are eventually proven right.
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 10, 2012 14:14:06 GMT 3
Politics in Kenya is not religion, you lost me right here...
“The good news for Raila and ODM, however, is there are many in Group A or B willing and ready to receive that message of hope and transformation and to accordingly move to Group C, even in the face of this dogged determination by those scheming to defeat the spreading of such a message.”
It’s more like;
Group A = Do we have a ‘charismatic’ tribal leader? If Yes we are all in if not we will invent one.
Group B=We can’t invent a leader so we will not vote at all, vote for who my peers seem to be gravitating towards or go with our cousins with a ’charismatic’ leader
Group C=The remaining 3% or less who will vote based on ideology or considering all the variables and are not influenced by anybody.
Group D = The large apathetic population which won’t vote at all they just don’t believe they will make a difference and are a tired of politics altogether.
With all the poverty & semi-literacy it will take a while before your theory is realized Omwega…
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 9, 2012 8:13:07 GMT 3
Legalized prostitution in Kenya? Where a pastors flock is proud that ‘their’ pastor drives a nice car & has a mansion all this time believing maana came from heaven to purchase those goodies! Not gonna happen...we embrace duplicity and are proud out it... Malaya lazima anyanyaswe! Ati wasemaje??Please do not be IGNORANT.One of my cousins is a retired sex worker, OK? The grand daughter of one of my aunties still sells her body to African, Arab, Asian, European, North American, Latino and Melanesian clients in Mombasa to pay rent, educate her son and support her mother comprende?You may very well be a REGULAR customer of Koinange Street or one of its equivalents elsewhere. Kwa hivyo, usituletee nani!Onyango Oloo Nairobi, KenyaRelax Oloo infact I share Nok’s opinion on this matter but the reality is our church driven society will never legalize prostitution. More power to your relative she must be a sweetheart but the only member of the extended Oloo family I will be engaging is one OO of Jukwaa....Asante!
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 8, 2012 19:59:14 GMT 3
Good for Mudavadi...finally showing some nuts,I don't believe it will amount to much but at least he is making an effort to look like he has ambitions something I didn't think he had in him & I think most share my sentiments (look at Gado's cartoon today)...
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 8, 2012 19:53:07 GMT 3
Legalized prostitution in Kenya? Where a pastors flock is proud that ‘their’ pastor drives a nice car & has a mansion all this time believing maana came from heaven to purchase those goodies! Not gonna happen...we embrace duplicity and are proud out it...
Malaya lazima anyanyaswe!
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emali
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Post by emali on Feb 8, 2012 19:33:55 GMT 3
DW, I don't think what Omar Hassan said was unreasonable. I've said pretty much the same thing here on Jukwaa. After 25 years under 2 Kikuyu presidents & 24 years under a Kalenjin one, the fair thing would be for the president to hail from elsewhere.
Not sure why Gikuyu (or Kalenjin candidates, for that matter) should be disadvantaged for what has happened in the past. You might reply that Kenyans pay taxes, which go to pay debts incurred in the past. For example: Kenyans born after 1978 are still paying taxes which go to pay for KenRen. But the KenRen debts were incurred by a past government. Assume that it's OK to ask Kenyans to pay taxes for KenRen. Then why isn't it OK to ask Gikuyu and Kalenjin to pay for the past doings of Gikuyu and Kalenjin presidents?
Two relevant differences, in my view.
(1) Membership of the nation is a matter of consent, where membership of the tribe isn't.
(2) The nation has a clear juridical structure. In particular, there is someone who has publicly-acknowledged legal authority to incur these debts, and to impose their costs on others. The tribe lacks anything similar.
(I've argued elsewhere that Kenya urgently needs affirmative action. You might ask how that's compatible with my argument here. I'd need to think about it.)
Indeed I fault the COE for not thinking out of the box on how to neutralize the tribal undercurrents that come with ANY presidency once & for all. I would've advocated a Swiss style rotational presidency. There, the primarily symbolic presidency rotates between the German, French, Italian, & Romanch (tribes) representatives each who "rule" only for one year. Given that we have 42 tribes & 47 counties (which are roughly tribal zones), a fair arrangement would be to have the 47 governors stand in as the Swiss council where the confederation's president is elected from. As the term of all our leaders runs for 5 years, we could have each governor serve as president for 1.3 months within the 5 year cycle . No need for swearing in ceremonies; just draw up roster showing when each counties governor will get their chance to "rule" KE. State House would be an office, not a residence! Bingo! Everyone's happy PS: personally I find Omar Hassan a bit of an arrogant fellow & far from likeable. Understandable, but electionsand electoral bodiesare the wrong places to look for that sort of thing. The rot is further back, in the arrangement of institutions which surround the presidency. So long as whoever's President has huge bits of the state under his control and his command; so long as he has wide powers of patronage; so long as the executive power isn't effectively checked, then it matters not how de-ethnicised, free and fair the elections are: once the President is in power, the ethnicisation will begin again. Putting in place a rotational presidency would simply entrench the it's-our-turn-to-eat logic. It would be betterand cheaper, franklyto reject the it's-our-turn-to-eat logic. This is one reason why the katibaeven though it fell short of the full Parliamentary system which every sane person wished forwas so important: it is a mighty step to finally making the executive accountable.
Sure the rot is further back but what assurances do we have they won’t last for the next 40 years? The same presidential patronage you mentioned is the reason there is no parliamentary system. The reality is politicians will be politicians, from Taiwan (with their annual royal rumble) to the states ( you can switch special interest groups for our tribes seamlessly).Imagine for s second we had a Teso president...Uhuruto & all the larger tribes will put pressure to ensure the president didn’t abuse his powers & would manipulate the president to ensure some laws were passed to curb his power(laws which are not so easy to overturn). Imagine Uhurutto are in power r for the next 8 years then another 8 of Ruto & whoever, I bet we won’t be one happy family around these parts, the cake has to be shared it’s that simple & the only way that will happen is a rotational presidency(or an electoral college)....I don’t trust that census for a second... b6kI have no problem if Mr Katikati become president at least it is something different & there no guarantees with our presidency anyway Kenyatta, Moi & Kibaki at some point looked very capable or at least palatable but what did they do? In the history of the world you can barely name a list of 30 great leaders out of a sample of 20 billion or more...it’s not like we have a sure-fire leader in our midst I would argue maybe Mboya was the closest we have ever gotten....we need to stop killing each other especially around elections & we need our economy to grow substantially we need stability more than anything else..
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emali
Full Member
Posts: 219
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Post by emali on Feb 7, 2012 14:17:18 GMT 3
If he had spoken only about the distribution of government jobs, then he would, surely, have been on much firmer ground. Unfortunately, he chose to speculate re why Gikuyu candidates wouldn't be welcome aspirants for the Presidency, or for the Police Commissionership. It's one thing to say that Kibaki has filled public appointments with his kinsmen; that's fair comment. It's another thing to say, as a member of the panel whose job it is to select the next Commissioner-General of Police, that one won't support any Gikuyu candidate---even a properly qualified one. (I think part of what's going on here is some kind of nice-guy effect. Hassan Omar is a nice guy: we all know he means well when he says this stuff; so it seems that what he says must be OK; it can't rise to the level of hate speech. That's not a great way of looking at it. I find Waititu a funny guy, but when you stop laughing at the things he says, too many are just incitements to violence, however amjsing.) DW, I don't think what Omar Hassan said was unreasonable. I've said pretty much the same thing here on Jukwaa. After 25 years under 2 Kikuyu presidents & 24 years under a Kalenjin one, the fair thing would be for the president to hail from elsewhere. Indeed I fault the COE for not thinking out of the box on how to neutralize the tribal undercurrents that come with ANY presidency once & for all. I would've advocated a Swiss style rotational presidency. There, the primarily symbolic presidency rotates between the German, French, Italian, & Romanch (tribes) representatives each who "rule" only for one year. Given that we have 42 tribes & 47 counties (which are roughly tribal zones), a fair arrangement would be to have the 47 governors stand in as the Swiss council where the confederation's president is elected from. As the term of all our leaders runs for 5 years, we could have each governor serve as president for 1.3 months within the 5 year cycle . No need for swearing in ceremonies; just draw up roster showing when each counties governor will get their chance to "rule" KE. State House would be an office, not a residence! Bingo! Everyone's happy PS: personally I find Omar Hassan a bit of an arrogant fellow & far from likeable. I agree with this...not about the Governorship being an automatic bid but a rotational presidency...it would help alot in curing most of the ethnic problems we have...
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