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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 19, 2011 16:19:44 GMT 3
The deferral was bound to fail because the whole scam was meant to cover Kibaki's back after retirement in 2012. What's more, the deferral scam was insincere, being fronted, authored and pushed by thieves, crooks, liars and cheats. Make no mistake, what's starts badly is bound to end badly, even catastrophic, so they say. Kibaki was sworn in 2002 riding a wheelchair with a broken neck and leg after dishonoring the MOU for selfish gains. In 2008, he was sworn in again as Kenya burnt and rivers of innocent blood flowed from every direction. He was hurriedly sworn in under cover of darkness without a single foreign guest and the swearing in was presided by CJ Gicheru, a fellow Nyerian. The whole controversial ceremony was orchestrated by NSIS boss Maj Gen Gichangi- also from Othaya who organized Kivuitu's kidnapping from KICC. I won't be surprised if Kibaki end's his poisoned presidency inside the dock at The Hague. His reign has been defined by soaring corruption, impunity, tribalism, extra judicial killings and post election bloodshed. And for that, he must prepare for the incoming costly invoice. As Phil said, Muthaura who holds all the dark and rotten secrets of Kibaki's presidency needs to be afraid, very afraid. The Mafia have proved they are capable of callous evil purely for self preservation. We all know there's scant honour among thieves, crooks, liars and cheats. The blood of the innocent 1,300 ( I suspect the figure could be higher possibly 5,000!) Kenyans who perished in post election violence is screaming for justice from their graves. Luckily the angles, UN, Ocampo and majority of decent Kenyans will fight for them and will win. Dont be suprised if Kibaki will be re-running for the presidential elections next year
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 19, 2011 13:47:33 GMT 3
Let the action begin now www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/UN+council+rejects+Kenya+deferral+bid/-/1064/1128944/-/alisyrz/-/index.htmlKenya’s bid for the suspension of International Criminal Court action against the Ocampo Six has flopped following a rejection of the plea by key UN Security Council members. An informal meeting between Kenyan envoys and members of the council on Friday yielded no breakthrough for Kenyan officials. UN Security Council members including permanent members US, Britain and France said they would reject the request. A veto by any of the three countries would be enough to doom the mission, championed by President Kibaki’s allies, for a deferral of ICC action. The Reuters news agency quoted French ambassador to the UN Gerard Araud saying Kenya stood no chance for success when asked if the Security Council might accept the request. "No, I don’t think so. The conditions of the implementation of Article 16 are not fulfilled." Article 16 of the Rome Statute, which set up the ICC, allows the Security Council to suspend the court’s proceedings if prosecutions at The Hague would constitute a threat to international peace and security. "Every council member has told them individually that their request will be rejected," a council diplomat told Reuters on condition of anonymity. "One point of today's (Friday) meeting was for the council to collectively make that clear to the Kenyans." The rejection by the Security Council will come as a setback to government, which has been on a shuttle diplomacy led by Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka, to lobby the UNSC to postpone The Hague trials. In December, ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno- Ocampo named Finance minister Uhuru Kenyatta, head of Civil Service Francis Muthaura, Postmaster General Hussein Ali, MPs William Ruto, Henry Kosgey and radio presenter Joshua arap Sang as the men bearing the greatest responsibility for the post election violence that killed 1,133 and 650,000 uprooted from their homes. The Ocampo Six have been summoned to make an initial appearance on April 7 and 8. They have indicated readiness to obey the summonses. The six are separately charged with murder, rape, deportation, torture and other inhumane acts.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 18, 2011 17:07:47 GMT 3
The Party of National Unity has said the International Criminal Court process in regard to the Ocampo six is a ploy by its coalition partner to manipulate the next elections. PNU charged that the ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo was being used by the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) to determine the outcome of the 2012 General Election in advance. “We shall not permit Ocampo to manipulate in advance the 2012 general elections, deny us our fundamental constitutional right and appoint a president by default,” said the party secretary general Kiraitu Murungi during a news conference at PNUs' headquarters in Nairobi. Flanked by top officials, Mr Murungi asserted that the party would not relent in its push to have the six suspects tried locally. Vowing that they will push for Kenya to withdraw from the Rome Statute even if The Hague trials begin, PNU echoed party leader President Kibaki,’s argument before the African Union that taking the Ocampo six to the Hague was a threat to national peace. “Only an irresponsible party would not see this ominous signal that the ICC process may very well undermine justice and collective peace for the nation,” said the party in a statement read by Mr Murungi. It repeated earlier threats to pull out of the coalition, saying a National Governing Council meeting planned for June this year would pass the final resolution on the matter. The Coalition, the party argues, has paralysed government operations, and slowed the implementation of the Constitution. "Members will decide whether to continue with this frustrating marriage or whether the time for divorce has come,” said Mr Murungi. Mr Moreno-Ocampo named Finance minister Uhuru Kenyatta, head of civil service Francis Muthaura, Postmaster General Hussein Ali, MPs William Ruto, Henry Kosgey and radio presenter Joshua arap Sang as those he considers to have borne the greatest responsibility for the violence that left 1,133 dead and 650,000 uprooted from their homes. The six have been summoned to make an initial appearance at The Hague on April 7 and indicated that they will honour the summonses. At the same time, the party announced that it would not give direct nominations to its candidates in the Kamukunji by-election. Instead, the party has invited the Interim Independent Elections Commission (IIEC) to oversee the nominations. PNU lost the Kamukunji seat in January this year, after the High Court nullified the election of Simon Mbugua, following a successive petition by Ibrahim Ahmed of ODM. Riding on recent victory in Kirinyaga Central by-elections, the party promised that the nominations for its flag bearer in Kamukunji would be free and fair. “We learnt lessons in Juja (by-elections), this time we want the people to participate in the nominations,” said Mr Murungi. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1128536/-/7pohku/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 18, 2011 17:05:40 GMT 3
President Kibaki has thanked China for supporting government's bid to defer the post election violence cases for a year. He said Kenya's engagement with the international community over the deferral was aimed at entrenching peace and security in the country. President Kibaki made the remarks during discussions with the visiting Vice Premier of the People’s Republic of China, H.E. Wang Qishan at State House, Nairobi Friday. The Head of State told the Vice Premier that the one year deferral would accord the government time to establish a credible local judicial system to try the six suspects behind the post-election violence. The Vice Premier noted that China supported home grown solutions that would help Kenya overcome any challenges it faced including the ICC process. The Vice Premier pledged his country’s support for the initiatives Kenya is taking to deal with its domestic issues as a sovereign nation. Terming China as a dependable development partner, President Kibaki acknowledged that the two nations have had a fruitful cooperation between them on matters of international concern, citing piracy and terrorism among others. “Over the years, Kenya has benefited substantially from the financial and technical support extended by your government, making China one of the leading bilateral donors to Kenya today. This assistance has had considerable impact on Kenya’s social economic development,” said the President. At the meeting, Kenya and China signed ten agreements in various economic and social fields that will see China fund projects in Health, Infrastructure and other fields of progress. Saying the relation between Kenya and China continues to flourish in many sectors including Agriculture, Education, Trade and Tourism, President Kibaki reaffirmed the government’s commitment to also continue cooperating in areas of peace and security. Recalling his visit to China last year during which he held fruitful discussion with the country’s President Hu Jintao, the Head of State said Kenya and China undertook to maintain high level visits contacts to expand and strengthen the bilateral relations. President Kibaki was among few Heads of State and government invited by China to grace the opening of Shanghai World Expo 2010. China’s financial and technical assistance to Kenya within the years, which runs into billions of shillings, has made significant impact to the country’s social-economic development, said the President. Among the ongoing projects financed by the government of China through concessionary loans and Preferential Buyers Credits and at various stages of implementation include expansion of Nairobi- Thika Highway, construction of Nairobi Eastern and Northern by-passes and Kenya Power Distribution Modernization Strengthening projects. “This cooperation has similarly been advanced through the Forum for China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC) which is anchored on the FOCAC action plan 2010-2010. The plan was adopted during a Ministerial Conference held in Egypt in November last year,” The President added. Reiterating Kenya’s support for a one China Policy, President Kibaki, at the same time, supported efforts by the international community for tackling climate change and other associated problems in realization of a green economy. Besides bilateral talks the President and the China’s Vice Premier discussed various regional and international issues of common interest including the security situation in the Great Lakes region, the horn of Africa and the Africa continent. The Head of State stressed that the piracy problem in the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Eden can only be solved through enhanced participation of all UN member states. Appreciating China’s determination and continued support to full implementation of the Sudan CPA, President Kibaki expressed the government commitment to regional peace and stability especially in the great lakes region and the horn of Africa. Following the outcome of the recent referendum in the Southern Sudan, the Head of State said, Kenya looked forward to continue working closely with China to ensure establishment of two friendly and viable sovereign states in the Sudan living peacefully side by side. Later at State House Nairobi, President Kibaki and the Chinese vice Premier witnessed the signing of ten agreements on economic, financial and technical cooperation between the two countries. The deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta and Trade Minister Chirao Ali Makwere signed on behalf of Kenya while the Vice Minister for Commerce Mr. Fu Ziying signed on behalf of China. The visit by the China’s Vice Premier responsible for Economic and Financial Affairs, which is his first in Kenya and Africa, is aimed at further strengthening the good political relations existing between the two countries. The China’s delegation in the talks included the president of China Exim (Export-Import) bank Mr. Li Ruo Gu, Chinese Ambassador to Kenya Liu Guangyuan, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Zhai Jun and the deputy Secretary General of the State Council Mr. Bi Jingquan. In attendance were Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Uhuru Kenyatta, Cabinet Ministers Ali Chirau Mwakwere, Prof. Hellen Sambili, Dalmas Otieno, Amos Kimunya, Franklin Bett, Prof Anyang’ Nyongo and Assistant Minister Richard Onyonka, Head of Public Service and Secretary to the Cabinet Francis Muthaura and other senior government officials. During the grand occasion ten agreements were signed touching on cooperation on various sectors of the economy among them Trade, Investment, Economic and Technical Cooperation, Free-Interest Loans, Bilateral training for Kenya Government Officials as well as provision of Concessional Loans. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1128480/-/item/1/-/ug22h4/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2011 18:32:01 GMT 3
AIROBI, Kenya, Mar 17 - The Kenyan deferral case against the trial of six post election violence suspects is now likely to come up for debate at the United Nations Security Council next week after it was postponed on Thursday. Kenya’s Permanent Representative at the United Nations Macharia Kamau told Capital News that the exact day has not yet been set. “The matter did not come up today (Thursday),” he told Capital news. Mr Kamau who will be leading the delegation said: “Kenya will make a case to continue its reforms and consolidate its national healing, peace and reconciliation.” Kenya requested a postponement of Thursday’s informal meeting after the Head of Delegation consulted with the President of the UN Security Council – China’s Li Baodong. The informal session in New York was expected to begin at 2am on Thursday and was to be attended by African Union officials who've supported Kenya's bid to have the trials suspended for one year to allow a local trial. But sources now say Kenya wants the issue elevated to a formal hearing by the UN Security Council and a postponement was sought to build more consensus first, among countries that are opposed to the deferral motion. The deferral bid has been faced by different challenges from coalition partner Orange Democratic Movement, the civil society and the western countries. The Security Council can issue a one-year suspension if there is a threat to international peace and security but western powers Britain, France and the United States say they do not believe a suspension is needed. Kenya has however received support from Russia and China among the permanent members and most of the other non permanent members. ODM has already written to the UN Security Council opposing the deferral. The deferral motion on Tuesday suffered another blow after civil society organisations presented 1.4 million signatures, against the move to three permanent members of the Security Council, who have always opposed the bid. The lobbyists made their petition to the American, British and French governments as well as to the non-permanent Council members requesting them to turn down Kenya's application terming it a delaying tactic meant to sway next year's elections. American Ambassador to Kenya Michael Ranneberger said that the deferral motion would promote impunity adding that the US would frustrate Kenya's appeal. British High Commissioner to Kenya Rob Macaire further warned Kenya against using the Security Council as a means to shield itself from criminal responsibility. The International Criminal Court has issues summons to suspects Head of Civil Service Francis Muthaura, Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta, and Former Police Commissioner Hussein Ali. Others named by the Prosecutor and now summoned to present themselves at the Hague-based court include suspended Ministers Henry Kosgey and William Ruto and journalist Joshua arap Sang. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/Kenyanews/Kenya-date-with-UN-likely-next-week-12089.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2011 12:22:16 GMT 3
Boyengo . Its not that they have forgotten what happened , Its that they know Raila incited Kenyans against each other and he is trying to re-do that again now with the Mau IDPS
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2011 11:54:36 GMT 3
ODM-Raila is really scared of UK in all spheres . Btw Phill those I.D.P.S. really appreciate and love U.K. for coming to their aid during that period of P.E.V.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2011 9:31:28 GMT 3
This election will be the litmus test for the 2012 elections in Western province and its counties .Be rest assured it will be a 2 horse race btwn ODM-Raila(National Party) and Ford-Kenya(Regional party) .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 16, 2011 14:49:51 GMT 3
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Submitted by arorin Posted March 16, 2011 02:25 PM
Does this there is no possible culpability for the killings in Naivasha, Kibera and Kisumu? This is hogwash! Ocampo is letting down Kenyans by doing a shoddy job. The appealhad better succeed otherwise the whole process will be questionable!
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Submitted by mutco Posted March 16, 2011 02:25 PM
@awuorondi; it seems you know the said masters or else what is paining you?
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Submitted by chugiz Posted March 16, 2011 02:24 PM
We Kenyans seem to focus on 'Ocampo Six' suspects and forget about the innocent victims who perished and need justice today. Thanks God, Ocampo hasn't forgotten about them. No matter how long it takes, they must get justice, for them and their families. Never again!
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Submitted by mamamdogo2 Posted March 16, 2011 02:18 PM
APKENY2012, too narrow minded. Who told O'campo works for Kenya and lives in Kenya and he is doing work for Kenya for name to be tainted? His world class Prosecutor, working for the world. It seems all guys see is farthest Nairobi, and beyond your tribe, and that little town. Keep your ignornace sometimes to yourselves bloggers.
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Submitted by pmusasia Posted March 16, 2011 02:18 PM
Dear colleagues, do not be misled into thinking otherwise. Ocampo has a tight case 4 the O-6, politics aside. remember PCs, DCs, PCIOs and DCIOs refused to give their story and what they knew, hence this missing link, which the prosecutor will definitely establish by hook or crook. Things are elephant 4 our country and our O-6.
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Submitted by awuorondi Posted March 16, 2011 02:12 PM
For all those kids and women for died burning in a church, you must go for it Ocampo. It is funny to see some of you believing useless propaganda that Ocampo has some masters in Kenya. Who can master Ocampo in Kenya? Get out of your ignorancy and get learned.
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Submitted by missedcall Posted March 16, 2011 02:08 PM
Ocampo, leave kenya alone. there are better cases you can spend time and other resources on. my advice, dont b sandwiched in kenyan politics.
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Submitted by mutco Posted March 16, 2011 02:07 PM
with a lot of pride, this guy and his masters in kenya are doomed to fail coz the cases are based on doctored evidence and bribed falls witnesses!!!
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Submitted by KAPKENY2012 Posted March 16, 2011 02:04 PM
Ocampo, Kenyan politics will taint your good name forever. its not too late to withdraw the case or rather start your independent investigation. The evidence from KNCHR that you are relying will never take you far! ODM political calculation will mess up you. pole sana mzee, though its too early to start appealing
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Submitted by bkzde123 Posted March 16, 2011 02:02 PM
Hi Ocampo why not ask for Nsis report the the President was given that may help otherwise keep looking for more information and informants do not give up. Mr Ocampo even if some escape justice you and the ICC have changed kenya never again will they pls a game of death with our lives.
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Submitted by aporeteco Posted March 16, 2011 01:54 PM
Surely, uprooting of railway lines in Kibera and forcible circumcision cases can be handled by the Kibera magistrate. Mass murder and rapes belong to you Ocampo.
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Submitted by otuoma31 Posted March 16, 2011 01:48 PM
Kenya has long been tried and found wanting and in our country, justice is normally a preservatory for the rich while the law is only meant for the poor to follow and the rich and mighty to break and be free. We even have criminals as MP's and they are out there. ICC remains our only hope.
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Submitted by otuoma31 Posted March 16, 2011 01:43 PM
We trust you Ocampo to do a good job. This is just a small hiccup. We had and we still have many here at home in pursuit of justice and all our hope is on you and ICC to deliver Justice to our people.
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Submitted by NomadGulwade Posted March 16, 2011 01:42 PM
Sir Ocampo,stop your neocolanistic tendency. It seems you've nt investigated anything on kenyan PEV there4 this case doesnt fall the threshold of Icc. Let kenyans solve their own problems and stop skirting around!
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Submitted by kilombili44 Posted March 16, 2011 01:41 PM
come on Ocampo. you have too far to do a shoddy job. put your act together and present a water tight case!
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Submitted by cm83 Posted March 16, 2011 01:39 PM
Ocampo never did any investigation...n he is will fail terribly in this...he should be a politician because he seems to be doing better in this case...
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Submitted by keta85 Posted March 16, 2011 01:21 PM
Ocampo did not do his investigation well,he only relied on hear say and KNHCR report.He doesn't have tangible evidence at all,the O-6 will have the last laugh!!
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 16, 2011 13:36:29 GMT 3
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Ocampo+seeks+appeal+on+ICC+cases/-/1064/1125886/-/ef1k4i/-/index.htmlInternational Criminal Court Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo has sought to appeal a decision by the Pre-Trial Chamber II to reject part of his application saying that it weakens his case. The prosecutor is appealing the judges’ decision to reject charges that the police were responsible for crimes in Naivasha, Nakuru, Kibera and Kisumu. The appeal was filed before the court on Tuesday. He argues that following the judges’ decision, the findings on whether crimes against humanity have been committed have been restricted to events in Naivasha and Nakuru, and further only to those acts that are linked to the crimes committed by the Mungiki. In his application, Mr Moreno-Ocampo said that head of civil service Francis Muthaura and postmaster general Hussein Ali then Police Commissioner, had instructed police to use excessive force and not to interfere with the Mungiki. Deputy Prime Minsiter Uhuru Kenyatta was accused of organising meetings between the Mungiki and senior government and PNU officials including Mr Muthaura. However, the Pre-Trial Chamber rejected the application arguing that the police could only be held accountable for the crimes in Naivasha and Nakuru if they acted pursuant to a “State policy by abstention”. It also rejected the contribution of the police to the crimes in Kisumu and Kibera, again on the ground that the prosecutor failed to prove that those crimes were committed pursuant to a “State policy”. "In this manner, the findings on whether crimes against humanity have been committed have been restricted to events in Naivasha and Nakuru, and further only to those acts that are linked to the crimes committed by the Mungiki," the prosecutor says in his application. Mr Moreno-Ocampo told the judges that this would weaken the case against the three individuals and he was therefore applying to appeal two issues, which the Prosecution considers, require consideration by the Appeals Chamber. “One concerns the construction by the Pre-Trial Chamber of the organisational requirement that must be pleaded and proved to convict a person of crimes against humanity. The other concerns whether forcible circumcision of adult males cannot constitute an act of sexual violence and should be qualified as “other inhumane acts” instead,” Mr Moreno-Ocampo avers. "Both issues require immediate appellate consideration. Because they bear on the criminal charges that the Suspects will be called upon to answer, they must be resolved now, else the Prosecution will be irremediably prevented from pursuing its factual and legal theory of the case."
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 16, 2011 12:51:33 GMT 3
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Submitted by operations2010 Posted March 16, 2011 12:22 PM
For those who have been loud that ODM/Raila controls ICC, what say you about judge Kaul? Is he a PNU mole?
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Submitted by Pukks Posted March 16, 2011 12:21 PM
In theory the cases can be tried in Kenya. In practice it is next to impossible. Examples abound. (a) Goldenberg (b) Ken Ren (c) Triton (d) JM murder (e) Ouko Murder. The spanners that will be thrown into the works will make the cases continue forever.
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Submitted by berknet Posted March 16, 2011 12:21 PM
We just past a new constitution and its us to make it work. The current ICC cases will not mark the end of such cases and therefore the need for our country be able to sort or learn to sort its problems. Countries which have succeeded started from somewhere and if we cry that justice is not in Kenya then we are not helping to seeing any signs of our beginning to be self reliant.
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Submitted by kijanasonko Posted March 16, 2011 12:15 PM
Now my learned judge do you know the kenya judiciary system? let try the local tribunal and you will be suprised after ten years nothing will happen.
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Submitted by Chikombe Posted March 16, 2011 12:13 PM
This German guy can’t get it; he has not gone through the same harrowing experience the victims of-PEV-had-to-go through. We-have-had many unsolved mysteries in this country. Many-of these dates-way-back-to the assassination of TJ-Mboya and the gruesome murder of JM-Kariuki and across the board the disappearance and eventual murder of JR Ouko and as if this is not enough, the horrendous and inhumane experience of the IDPs and the spate of prejudicial killings of human right activists. All these are pending or suspended and the truth remains that we don’t have the capacity to solve these puzzling encounters.
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Submitted by xalo Posted March 16, 2011 12:07 PM
The Honourable Judge is just stating that these cases do not meet the ICC threshhold. He is not atating that there is no case to answer. Kenyans need to set up their local systems to handle this matter and stop running away from responsibility. When you soil yourself you do not go around asking the neighbours to come clean you up.
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Submitted by Mzazi Posted March 16, 2011 11:56 AM
Obviously the Law and ICC are not issues about public opinion.Love him or hate him,the judge has some facts whose the publicity hungry prosecutor should not ignore if the IDPs and Kenyans are to get justice and truth.
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Submitted by kijanamzee Posted March 16, 2011 11:34 AM
What Judge Kaul is saying is not really new, we all knew these cases could and still can be tried locally. The big question is whether Kenya Govt can create a credible local tribunal and the emphatic answer in a big NO. That's why the ICC came in as we all remember after it even gave Govt a chance to create this tribunal. Kenya shot itself in the foot and now we have to live with the consequences. The ICC process has now taken a life of its own.
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Submitted by toddo Posted March 16, 2011 11:14 AM
Yes! We all want them to be tried locally. We all the killers of Tom Mboya, Bishop Muge, Dr Ouko and the Wagallah massacre to be tried locally. But alas, in kenya, nothing ever happens to the main killers. That is why when the MPs were sober, they said let the case go to ICC. At least the judge has confirmed that those named have a case to answer. It is just a matter of where they are tried. The PEV victims just need the perpetrators brought to justice full stop!
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Submitted by kenchep Posted March 16, 2011 11:09 AM
we need this Cases to be tried locally and not in ICC?
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Submitted by GregPA Posted March 16, 2011 11:08 AM
Independent thought is always a breath of fresh air. Kenyans though are so used to a politician-driven brain-dead herding mentality that this guy was insulted on all blogs when it emerged that he had respectfully disagreed with his colleagues. Won't it be boring if we all think the same? We have a lot to learn.
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Submitted by Chikombe Posted March 16, 2011 11:07 AM
This is not a new notion; local solution to local problems was suggested and debated in parliament and abandoned when the blabbermouths opted for Hague. They said-in emphatic that the PM, Minister for Justice-and-those-who opted for local tribunal should not be vague. They have their cake and rightly so, they should go ahead and eat it. To those who went through the horrendous experience, this was a blessing in disguise; it is a glaring truth that we cannot mount an impartial local mechanism to try the perpetrators following the recent abortive selection of members of the jury.
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Submitted by toauochi Posted March 16, 2011 11:05 AM
The cases could have been tried locally but Parliament rejected a move to form a credible local tribunal, he is not doing the fighting of impunity any favours, he should do his homework about the local judicial system before making such a decision.
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Submitted by apostleonesmus Posted March 16, 2011 11:05 AM
This guy seems to have had a clear analysis of both the Ocampo evidence and the Rome statute. He presents his case with a clear mind full of wisdom. If his finding be true then i am afraid the Ocampo six will easily win the cases before them. Kaul for kenyan's CJ!
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Submitted by borah Posted March 16, 2011 11:03 AM
Bwana Hans-Peter Kaul, we hauijui Kenya!!! If no credible local tribunal is set up, we can kiss justice for the victims good bye!! How can we try our presidential front runners?? We would be crazy to do so, no?
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Submitted by Ngorotheru Posted March 16, 2011 10:58 AM
Good. They have a reason to be tried. The cases went to the Hague not that they could not be tried locally and the reason remain the same. The courts have not been constituted and there is no will, and of course, Manipulation.
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Submitted by ecolombe Posted March 16, 2011 10:55 AM
The judge has a point. Kenyan's are euphoric and have a tendency to act on impulse and in the heat of the moment. We seem to have infected Ocampo with the same. This is a good time to search our souls and seek for divine intervention. Forgiveness should not be construed to mean that the perpetrators of violence should be let off the hook. Let us give the new constitution a chance to deliver otherwise why did we even have the referendum and the promulgation? The Ochieng's, Kamau's, Kiprono's and others need to think outside the box.
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Submitted by atcynthia Posted March 16, 2011 10:54 AM
Does this mean justice has once again lost?
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Submitted by Fikiria Posted March 16, 2011 10:53 AM
It has been 4 years since the violence took place. The credibility of our judiciary is in serious doubt as is the luck of political will to prosecute these cases locally. And I suspect if they were to be held locally, the court would always retreat 'in camera' whenever some people are about to be named. By the way has any broadcasting house bought the rights for live transmissions from the hague?
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Submitted by mnyache Posted March 16, 2011 10:45 AM
He has a point.They could be tried locally, but the local context stinks! No big fish has been tried in Kenya, and if impunity is not punished, no big fish will ever be tried. Implementation of new constitution is being fought everywhere. Trials at ICC would give kenya a good start as we implement new constitution. Current leadership still has old constitution hangovers and Kenya has been bastardly tribalised. God help Kenya to have the unity of purpose! 2012 let us be wise!
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Submitted by mnyache Posted March 16, 2011 10:45 AM
He has a point.They could be tried locally, but the local context stinks! No big fish has been tried in Kenya, and if impunity is not punished, no big fish will ever be tried. Implementation of new constitution is being fought everywhere. Trials at ICC would give kenya a good start as we implement new constitution. Current leadership still has old constitution hangovers and Kenya has been bastardly tribalised. God help Kenya to have the unity of purpose! 2012 let us be wise!
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Submitted by odegimk Posted March 16, 2011 10:42 AM
The judgment does more damage to the Ocampo six than one might think. Although the judge makes an argument against Hague trial on a technicality, he is actually confirming that there is enough evidence to convict the Six.Basing on the Rwandan experience, such technical/academic arguments do more harm than good. One can not forget how UN spent time arguing about the meaning of genocide when Rwandese were busy slaughtering one another.
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Submitted by Kamuntu Posted March 16, 2011 10:39 AM
If a court like ICC which in general is regarded as "neutral" can face so much resistance from the current political elite in Kenya, surely what chances does a "local" court have against this mob? Will there be a willing judge who is not already compromised to chair such a tribunal?
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Submitted by evaaggy Posted March 16, 2011 10:38 AM
judge kaul I may not be a learned friend, but there are things that you are so loudly silent on. (a) the credibility of our justice system. (b) the the competence and willingness of the our governement to prosecute. Correct me if am wrong: if these conditions are not met doesnt it warrant the cases to be tried at the Hague? Kaul you are an intellectual heavy weight, but obviuosly you are out of touch with the kenyan situation.
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Submitted by Pricewater Posted March 16, 2011 10:36 AM
I urge anyone who can; to download the COMPLETE ruling(available here in the Nation) and then read it in it's entirety and make your own informed conclusion. I was left speechless after reading it.
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Submitted by jfeo Posted March 16, 2011 10:26 AM
This is a sober judgment. Whatever the case, Kenya will change for the better upon conclusion of this case.
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Submitted by marston Posted March 16, 2011 10:25 AM
True, the cases can be tried locally, but the issue is; can the Kenyan government be trusted to try those it claims are leading "presidential contenders" hence untouchables? Lest someone celebrate, the judge has not said they don't have a case to answer.
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Submitted by krubila Posted March 16, 2011 10:17 AM
Basically what the Judge could be saying is that Uhuru, Ruto, And Kosgey have their odds stacked against them.Locally or at the Hague.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 16, 2011 11:32:20 GMT 3
The International Criminal Court judge who declined to issue summonses to six Kenyans suspected of being behind the post-election violence says the cases can be dealt with locally.
In his dissenting opinion published on Tuesday night, Judge Hans-Peter Kaul said that Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo had not convinced him that the crimes committed in Kenya meet the threshold of crimes against humanity.
“Consequently, I have no doubt that the crimes alleged in the application concerning Francis Muthaura, Uhuru Kenyatta and Mohammed Ali fall within the competence of the criminal justice authorities of the Republic of Kenya as a matter to be investigated and prosecuted under Kenyan criminal law,” said Judge Kaul.
The judge ruled that though he was satisfied that the violence was planned and organised, this did not prove that an ‘organisational policy’ exists pursuant to article 7(2)(a) of the Statute.
“Accordingly, I hold that the planning and coordination of violence in Uasin Gishu and Nandi Districts between 30 December to the end of January 2008 alone does not transform an ethnically-based gathering of perpetrators into a state-like ‘organisation’,” said Judge Kaul
He added that the prosecutor had failed to prove that the crimes fall within the jurisdiction of the ICC since he had based his application on “excerpts or a series of sentences, selected from witness statements, reports, press articles and other material.”
“The Prosecutor supported his application, to a large extent, with the same public reports of non-governmental organisations and commissions that he already submitted on 26 November 2009 when seeking the chamber’s authorisation for the commencement of the investigation into the situation in the Republic of Kenya pursuant to article 15 of the Statute,” the German judge said.
He added that he failed, on the basis of the Prosecutor’s presentation of the case and the evidence submitted, to see how an “organisation” could have existed in which the primary actors were the Mungiki gang and the Kenyan police forces,” he said.
However, the judge said he was in agreement with Mr Moreno-Ocampo’s proof that Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta was the principal contact between the Mungiki criminal gang. He however, added that a series of meetings with facilitators and the principal perpetrators did not transform a limited partnership of convenience into an ‘organisation’ within the meaning of the Rome Statute.
“The fact that the ‘cooperation’ between the Mungiki gang and the Kenyan police forces was established shortly before the 2007 presidential elections tends to demonstrate the temporary character of this partnership of convenience,” the judge said.
He added that his analysis had led him to conclude that the Mungiki gang and the Kenyan police forces do not share a common hierarchy but rather maintain separate structures.
“I therefore conclude that the ‘organisation’ as presented by the Prosecutor, consisting mainly of the Mungiki gang and the Kenyan police forces, did not exist,” Judge Kaul said.
Last week, two of the judges of Pre-Trial Chamber II ruled by majority that there was sufficient evidence to try the six suspects named by Mr Moreno-Ocampo for planning or funding violence in Kenya and have already issued summonses ordering the six suspects to appear on April 7.
“In the absence of any evidence proving that the crimes alleged are embedded in an “organizational policy”, I continue to hold that the Court has no jurisdiction ratione materiae over the situation in the Republic of Kenya, including the present case,” said Judge Kaul.
He added that he had no doubt that the crimes alleged in the Application concerning William Ruto, Henry Kosgey and Joshua Sang fall within the competence of Kenya’s criminal justice system.
“I am not satisfied by the evidence supporting the allegation that the three suspects used the ODM structure to plan and organise the attacks against the Kenyan civilian population. It is unclear to me whether the Prosecutor considers the ODM in its entirety to be the Network’s Political Branch or only individual ODM politicians,” said Judge Kaul.
He added that though evidence showed that the three had been “involved in the planning of crimes” there was no link to suggest that the ODM party structure was an integral part of the “Network”.
The prosecutor had said in his application that Mr Ruto, Mr Sang and Mr Kosgey had created a “multi-faceted network” that they used to attack perceived PNU supporters in Rift Valley.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 15, 2011 8:19:13 GMT 3
Just but a confirmation that 2012 Coastal Politics wont be about ODM and PNU .Will be Coast Vs Rest
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2011 17:29:51 GMT 3
I have a dream. It's Jan 2013 in Kenya and the inhabitant of the house opposite state house high school is neither Uhuru nor Ruto nor Kalonzo nor a puppet of Impunity = Status quo = Imp-oligarch. The Kenyan PEV case after having been deferred in the year of 2011 is finally taking shape with strong institutions handling it, because through ODM, civil activism, an enlightened Kenyan population and implementation of the new constitution. The Ocampo six are on trial. The Local tribunal meets ICC standards. I suddenly wake up. The deferral intention by MK Ltd. has the ""soul"" purpose of making sure UK and Ruto are in the Ballot paper come 2012. That goes in line with trying to avoid a Bashir on MK. What one would call killing 4 birds with one stone, cause with -OH intoxication a double amounts to a quadruple, but i won't elaborate. Back to my dream. 2013 ! Ocampo six are suddenly mortals without the vital keys to cookie jar and classified information, so to speak, the tables turned upside down. I see a government of National unity , for the people, doing some frying. The heat in equatorial Kenya is hot. Something keeps telling UK maybe, the cool temperatures of a middle European town would have been a better alternative. I wake up. And realize oh! Kumbe bado tuko 2011 ! Na siasa imefika jikoni Add Raila and Kibaki (Although he wont vie) in that equation -This will be the ideal situation.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2011 14:51:43 GMT 3
Ocampo should just make the kill and go for the real people to be held responsible for the P.E.V. Kibaki and Raila
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 9, 2011 12:23:02 GMT 3
The summons have not made any newsworthy materials in the leading broadcasters across the world. does this say something ?
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 9, 2011 11:05:26 GMT 3
Phil Mzee & Adongo . Do you believe what you are writing , that is contrary to what is in the media and on ground. ODM-Raila is falling into the trap of popularizing UDM as the vehicle for Rift valley politicians come next years elections in "August". Next years elections will be about regional parties and not national parties and this where ODM-Raila fails to see the light . We are talking of P.O.R.K here. How do you expect a regional party to produce a president? I think you have misunderstood the whole discussion. There are as many regional parties in Kenya as there are regions. Dont tell me that they are better off than a national party such as ODM. The new constitution will re-model the coalition of parties and it will be beneficial for parties to form coalitions during the election run-offs and this means consolidating the regional bloc votes during the initial election. It is evident no presidential candidate will be able garner the required votes to meet the threshold of becoming the president elect during the first round of the 2012 elections. Maybe later it will be possible to have national parties once the politics mature or dependent on the outcome of the 2012 elections
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 9, 2011 10:15:58 GMT 3
Phil Mzee & Adongo . Do you believe what you are writing , that is contrary to what is in the media and on ground. ODM-Raila is falling into the trap of popularizing UDM as the vehicle for Rift valley politicians come next years elections in "August". Next years elections will be about regional parties and not national parties and this where ODM-Raila fails to see the light .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 8, 2011 10:04:39 GMT 3
jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=5043&page=2Tribal tagging for political mobilization letter to the Chairman, National Cohesion and Integration Commission My attention has been drawn to the ongoing debate about the so-called Kikuyu, Kalenjin and Kamba alliance (KKK). I note with grave concern that the so-called KKK has been associated with myself and other leaders. To the best of my understanding, the branding of certain leaders as KKK is divisive because it purports to bring together some communities to the exclusion of others. This is against national unity, integration and cohesion. Further, the KKK tag is against the spirit of the new Constitution that the country recently enacted. It is instructive to note that the current debate on the KKK tag is taking the same pattern reminiscent of the perceptions that fueled tribal animosity and tagging for political mobilisation in the run up to the 2007 election. This misinformation, actively propagated from certain quarters, has the potential of pitting other communities against the said communities illegitimately associated with the KKK and vice versa and must be stopped forthwith. The KKK tag is being used as a tool to deny certain leaders the right of association. Mr Chairman, the continued referral to the KKK tag and further association of it with myself, despite my repeated public rejection of the idea of tribal alliances, can only be interpreted as a deliberate and sustained campaign to malign my name and good standing among Kenyans of all walks of life, ethnicity and creed. Further, it is designed to portray me as having an agenda that is tribalistic, exclusionary and against the principles of cohesion. The irresponsible use of this tag by certain politicians, foreign diplomats and its perpetuation by the media is creating a fertile ground for retrogressive politics of ethnicity and tribalism and must be construed as hate speech. Additionally, the KKK tag is designed to deny me my constitutional right to associate with other leaders from all walks of life and all parts of the country. It is my constitutional right to associate with other Kenyans without tribal tags being pinned on me. Mr Chairman, in respect of the foregoing and in the interest of public good and furtherance of your statutory mandate, I ask that you give guidance to the country to the effect that the continued use of the KKK tag is against national unity, cohesion and integration. I also request you to declare that the KKK tag is being used to set communities against one another. I ask your commission to investigate those propagating the KKK tag and their intentions and, if found guilty, to prosecute them. We cannot afford to see our beloved country succumb to the dark forces of ethnic bigotry, impunity and hatred as it did in the last election. I deem it my personal responsibility as a nationalist, a citizen and a leader to play my role in ensuring that this does not happen.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 8, 2011 10:03:18 GMT 3
Tribal tagging for political mobilization letter to the Chairman, National Cohesion and Integration Commission
My attention has been drawn to the ongoing debate about the so-called Kikuyu, Kalenjin and Kamba alliance (KKK). I note with grave concern that the so-called KKK has been associated with myself and other leaders.
To the best of my understanding, the branding of certain leaders as KKK is divisive because it purports to bring together some communities to the exclusion of others. This is against national unity, integration and cohesion. Further, the KKK tag is against the spirit of the new Constitution that the country recently enacted. It is instructive to note that the current debate on the KKK tag is taking the same pattern reminiscent of the perceptions that fueled tribal animosity and tagging for political mobilisation in the run up to the 2007 election. This misinformation, actively propagated from certain quarters, has the potential of pitting other communities against the said communities illegitimately associated with the KKK and vice versa and must be stopped forthwith. The KKK tag is being used as a tool to deny certain leaders the right of association.
Mr Chairman, the continued referral to the KKK tag and further association of it with myself, despite my repeated public rejection of the idea of tribal alliances, can only be interpreted as a deliberate and sustained campaign to malign my name and good standing among Kenyans of all walks of life, ethnicity and creed. Further, it is designed to portray me as having an agenda that is tribalistic, exclusionary and against the principles of cohesion.
The irresponsible use of this tag by certain politicians, foreign diplomats and its perpetuation by the media is creating a fertile ground for retrogressive politics of ethnicity and tribalism and must be construed as hate speech. Additionally, the KKK tag is designed to deny me my constitutional right to associate with other leaders from all walks of life and all parts of the country. It is my constitutional right to associate with other Kenyans without tribal tags being pinned on me.
Mr Chairman, in respect of the foregoing and in the interest of public good and furtherance of your statutory mandate, I ask that you give guidance to the country to the effect that the continued use of the KKK tag is against national unity, cohesion and integration.
I also request you to declare that the KKK tag is being used to set communities against one another. I ask your commission to investigate those propagating the KKK tag and their intentions and, if found guilty, to prosecute them. We cannot afford to see our beloved country succumb to the dark forces of ethnic bigotry, impunity and hatred as it did in the last election. I deem it my personal responsibility as a nationalist, a citizen and a leader to play my role in ensuring that this does not happen.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 5, 2011 15:45:47 GMT 3
President Kibaki has asked politicians to respect each other and desist from exchanging harsh word in public. The President said it was unfortunate that some leaders had tried to outdo each other at hurling insults in public gatherings instead of seizing such opportunities to show leadership.
“Kwa nini binadamu anatharau mwengine na mambo yote haya ni ya Mungu? Hakuna haja. (Why should a human being disrespect another and yet all things come from God. It is pointless),” he said. Without mentioning names, the President said that some had perfected the art of being hardliners, cheating, engaging in shows of might and “standing tough and insulting others” with the hope of drawing popularity.“People should learn how to respect each other because it will be a fitting example to the rest of Kenyans,” he said. He seemed to be hitting at leaders who have of late taken to public podiums to discredit each other. On Thursday, the National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) warned Prime Minister Raila Odinga, Eldoret North MP William Ruto and Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta to stop using abusive language. Mr Ruto and Mr Kenyatta have taken to publicly attacking Mr Odinga, and he has not been left behind hitting back at the two in equal measure. The commission, which is mandated to tame hate speech and other divisive issues that might polarize the country ahead of the 2012 elections has warned that some of the public statements by the leaders, even though not bordering on hate speech, had the potential of dividing Kenyans especially along tribal lines. President Kibaki had steered clear of the raging public attacks between leading politicians and their cronies, which has seen some of them take hardline position on issues that are shaping public discourse such as the Ocampo six, and issues to do with implementation of new constitution. One camp is opposed to the notion of deferral for suspects named by ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo , while the other is in favour of a one year postponement of the case. The pro-deferral group has embarked on shuttle diplomacy to woo support for local trials from regional and international states, a move sharply opposed by a group aligned to Mr Odinga’s ODM brigade. Issues to do with filling constitutional offices and other aspects of implementing the new Constitution, has also been divisive. President Kibaki was speaking at Timau area in Laikipia County during the burial of Nanyuki businessman Mr Daudi Gitumbi at his farm. www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1119436/-/7p3m89/-/index.html
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 5, 2011 12:23:31 GMT 3
What annoys me is that the ruto spin doktas seem to be very agile and shifty in their arguments. They are very good in shifting the goal posts. And thus they seem to be one step ahead of the real ODMers when it comes to the media PR war. Its time for the ODM hierarchy to follow the laid down protocol and the go ahead and adduce the evidence backing up the reasons, and stating clearly why they need ruto and Co. to go. You are right here and also in the previous post "Timing is everything " With the new constitution Kenyan politics will have to change or be changed by the constitution . ODM-The Railas , Kajwangs and Midiwos have opted for the second option while ODM -The Rutos ,Balalas and Duales have opted for the first option . Within a period of less than a year ODM has been reduced to a Luo party . And Why is this ? Focus will be changed from parliamentary elections to Senate and Governor elections and with Cabinet coming from outside of parliament which party will want to use that platform to put itself in a position to eat/share the national cake. There is too much to it than it looks like and Seems the Rutos Balalas and Duale are steps ahead.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 4, 2011 10:25:40 GMT 3
From the happenings going on i.e. Member Expulsions etc it is evident the ODM has become a one man dictatorship party . Aha! So ODM has evolved from a two, three, four, five six,....., infinity man dictatorship party to now only a one man dictatorship party! That is a hell lot of improvement. We should be congratulating ODM. At the above rate ODM will be soon a zero man dictatorship party! But what exactly is the meaning of a zero man dictatorship party? Does a zero man dicatorship party equate to a democratic party? In other words can you please explain the meaning of the expression 'one man dictatorship party'? Is there an expression like that? Just asking. Your question has been answered by Mr MIDIWO www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/Kenyanews/ODM-rebels-rubbish-expulsion-threat-11919.htmlMr Midiwo said they would deal with all rebel MPs who are against Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Mr Midiwo added:" Let it be known, that whether you are councillor or an MP and you don't dance to our tune, you will go."
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 3, 2011 11:30:30 GMT 3
ODM to discipline members who opposed lawI have made comments about this shocking revelation of the ODM mindset under other threads, but I think this is a significant issue that deserves its own thread. Jukwaa has consistently been against dictatorship. So I presume it would be against the spirit that seems to be gripping ODM. We are in a very dangerous position when people like Nyongo openly declare that individuals should leave their liberties behind when they join a governing party. It is a very dangerous situation when people in senior posts of a governing party openly champion party dictatorship at a time when a new constitution is just being adopted. From the happenings going on i.e. Member Expulsions etc it is evident the ODM has become a one man dictatorship party .
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 2, 2011 14:40:58 GMT 3
This is just but propaganda at its best Mara In 2002 Kibaki was given the presidency on silver platter by Raila . Then come 2007 Kibaki "stole " the election . I wonder what Railas propaganda machinery will come up with in 2012.
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